Cherry MX Switch Lubrication Guide

[1pq]

No problem about your english! Most of it's totally understandable, I was just a little unclear about exactly what you were asking.

Victorinox should work perfectly for what you're talking about. There's no need to use krytox for lubing springs.

[Veteranos]

Alright! Thank you very much for that small info

[Veteranos]

Does anyone have mixed the gpl-205 grease with victorinox multi-tool oil to use it on the stems sliders?

[nubbinator]

Does anyone have mixed the gpl-205 grease with victorinox multi-tool oil to use it on the stems sliders?

That's like mixing a fine wine with two buck chuck.  It just should not be done.

[1pq]

The lube you use on the springs will not affect the feel nearly as much as the lube you use on the sliders/stems, and the places where you put that lube. Don't think too much about lubing the spring. Just use Victorinox and you'll be fine )

[Veteranos]

ok thanks now need some time to desoldering that 

[mkawa]

thanks to photoelectric, i now have a small sample of victorinox multi-tool oil. it turns out that it's actually polyolefin mix. lubricants with polyolefins at their base seem to be copolymers typically made of hydrocarbon monomers that are primarily 1-decene? it's definitely not sweet. it has a strong smell that's a bit like wax. at room temperature, it's definitely more viscous than krytox GPL 106 or 107. it doesn't really feel like it has any solids in it, and i had it tagged as a minerol oil (not too far off base) before i took a look at the MSDS.

it's definitely very different from the PFPE, PTFE combination that is krytox, but it's also not a grease. it seems a bit like it's optimized to coat objects, like the joints in multi-tools to provide corrosion resistance. lubridicity doesn't really seem all that great...

more to come as i play around with it.

[Pacifist]

woop spring lube!!!!

[minho]

Quick question - for lubing Clear switches, is something thick like this Extra thick formula or is something thin like this thin formula better? I wish to maintain tactility while smoothing the travel (eliminating scratchiness and other feelings besides just the tactile feeling).

[deltuhhh]

Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?

[Sifo]

Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?

Not really... you could depress it and try to drip some **** in but it's been done before and the results aren't pretty.

[swill]

Is it possible "lube" the switch without taking the housing off?

The first board I ever lubed was done this way. I used grease and a tiny paint brush. I depressed the switch with a small flat head screwdriver a painted a super thin layer of grease on the side sliders.

It worked ok, but nothing like taking it apart and doing it correctly.

[Z3us_]

Just a quick question. If i'm gonna lube topres should i use grease,oil or a mixture?

[lolkey]

Is lubing really worth it? I've read quite a few people saying the difference is really small or not even noticeable. Seems like a lot of work, especially having to desolder every switch

[phoenix1234]

Is lubing really worth it? I've read quite a few people saying the difference is really small or not even noticeable. Seems like a lot of work, especially having to desolder every switch

It depends. Lubing brand new Cherry MX Linear or Tactile switches is worth every bit. Lubing Vintage Cherry MX Black will have small benefit. However, it is not recommended to lube Clicky switches like Cherry MX Blue or Green because if we apply lubricant with high viscosity, it may lose the clicky.

[lolkey]

Can anyone describe the feeling before and after lubing browns? Does it make them feel lighter? I notice at times some of my keys feels a bit scratchy depending on the temperature and humidity. Does that stuff effect the feel or the switch, or am I crazy?

[phoenix1234]

Can anyone describe the feeling before and after lubing browns? Does it make them feel lighter? I notice at times some of my keys feels a bit scratchy depending on the temperature and humidity. Does that stuff effect the feel or the switch, or am I crazy?

From my experience, after I lubed with high quality Krytox mixed lube, the feeling of Brown is not lighter but it is smoother and better. You are right about the scratchiness. However, after lubed correctly, the scratchy feeling will be reduced significantly. If you want to lube MX Brown, please be careful when you select the type of lube, please choose to have low viscosity one because the high viscosity lube may reduce the tactile feeling and make it become something completely Linear (like MX Red)

[Kakkun]

However, it is not recommended to lube Clicky switches like Cherry MX Blue or Green because if we apply lubricant with high viscosity, it may lose the clicky.

What about a low viscosity lube? Should clicky switches not be lubed at all?

[Photekq]

I lubed vintage blues with tiny amounts of GPL 103 oil, and I loved the effects it had. Click is there, just slightly dampened/less high-pitched and they feel smoother.

[C5Allroad]

How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?

[DzyDzyDino]

Sorry to post in a dying thread, but I'm getting ready to do my first lubing run soon, and wondering If I should go ahead and pick up some Victorinox for my springs/bottoms of stems? I had planned to use that very runny "Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant" stuff -- according to the labeling it seems to be safe for everything and from the consistency it seems like it would get the same effect. Since the lubing the springs isn't exactly a vital part (so it seems), I think I'd probably be okay for that, or does the Victorinox make that much of a difference? I've got some GPL 104 and 205 on the way for my stems. I probably would have grabbed 103 if I could have found it... but yeah, opinions on the spring lube?

[SpAmRaY]

How long does the lube last before it starts to go back go normal so to speak?

I would say it depends on usage of keyboard, type of lube, amount applied as well as the local environment.

[phoenix1234]

Sorry to post in a dying thread, but I'm getting ready to do my first lubing run soon, and wondering If I should go ahead and pick up some Victorinox for my springs/bottoms of stems? I had planned to use that very runny "Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant" stuff -- according to the labeling it seems to be safe for everything and from the consistency it seems like it would get the same effect. Since the lubing the springs isn't exactly a vital part (so it seems), I think I'd probably be okay for that, or does the Victorinox make that much of a difference? I've got some GPL 104 and 205 on the way for my stems. I probably would have grabbed 103 if I could have found it... but yeah, opinions on the spring lube?

Using high viscosity on spring will help to reduce the PING effect. You can use Dupont Teflon Silicone Lubricant on spring but since it has medium-high viscosity index (90), I would say Victorinox is better because it has higher viscosity, even higher than Krytox 107.

[cinnamonrollz]

Nice guide. Makes me wonder what an mx switch that has been submerged in lube would feel like.

[beltet]

Anyone used Unilube from Griffon? What is your experience?

EDIT: it's sewing machine oil.

Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?

[rainb1ood]

Hey guys! Can I use the Permatex Dielectric Grease for lubing the switches?

[strict]

Hey guys! Can I use the Permatex Dielectric Grease for lubing the switches?

I wouldn't, that stuff seems way too thick and would probably drastically alter the feel of the switch. You can't go wrong using one of the Krytox kits.

[rainb1ood]

Thanks, so the thin ones from techkeys it is.

Also quick question, I noticed that the Krytox GPL 206/1506 premixed from techkeys/mechanicalkeyboards.com says that 'thin' is made for linear switches and 'thick' is for tactile switches. I'm going to use it on an ergo clear mod, would thin still be the best to use?

[asgeirtj]

Saw this comment on reddit from elitekeyboard:

"Pricey Krytox GPL20x lubes are a bad match for keyswitches (don't tell the guys at geekhack!). These lubes are intended for closed systems or for applications where oil is periodically reapplied to the initially applied lubricant, because the Krytox oil in the lubricant separates from the PTFE solids if the system isn't sealed or doesn't constantly mix the lubricant (which reflows the solids). Sure, it's great lube for high speed bearings and extreme temperature environments, but keyswitches are open systems at room temperature and the oil will soon separate and pool or drip out the bottom of the switch leaving you with gummier solids that no longer flow and just attract dust. We did tests a couple years ago with Krytox out of curiosity, and after the oil separates off a few days or a week later, the difference from an un-lubed switch is mostly negligible."

LOL  

Anyway I'm going to be lubing 55g gold spring ergo-clears.  Is there much difference between the GPL 206/1506 geekhack kit and the gpl 203/103 so many on this thread talk about?  It's said that thick lube is best for tactile switches, so it'd be best if I used thick gh lube on all places, and this https://ctrlalt.io/store/items/geekhackers-lube-kits spring lube on spring?  Is difference between thick and thin lube a different mix of the 206/1506?  What's used for the spring lube on ctrlalt, some kind of victorinox?  Is http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube or gh thick lube better for stabilizers ?(cherry)

[heedpantsnow]

Saw this comment on reddit from elitekeyboard:

"Pricey Krytox GPL20x lubes are a bad match for keyswitches (don't tell the guys at geekhack!). These lubes are intended for closed systems or for applications where oil is periodically reapplied to the initially applied lubricant, because the Krytox oil in the lubricant separates from the PTFE solids if the system isn't sealed or doesn't constantly mix the lubricant (which reflows the solids). Sure, it's great lube for high speed bearings and extreme temperature environments, but keyswitches are open systems at room temperature and the oil will soon separate and pool or drip out the bottom of the switch leaving you with gummier solids that no longer flow and just attract dust. We did tests a couple years ago with Krytox out of curiosity, and after the oil separates off a few days or a week later, the difference from an un-lubed switch is mostly negligible."

LOL  

Anyway I'm going to be lubing 55g gold spring ergo-clears.  Is there much difference between the GPL 206/1506 geekhack kit and the gpl 203/103 so many on this thread talk about?  It's said that thick lube is best for tactile switches, so it'd be best if I used thick gh lube on all places, and this https://ctrlalt.io/store/items/geekhackers-lube-kits spring lube on spring?  Is difference between thick and thin lube a different mix of the 206/1506?  What's used for the spring lube on ctrlalt, some kind of victorinox?  Is http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube or gh thick lube better for stabilizers ?(cherry)

Huh. Seems to me that the PTFE solids would be a great lubricant, even if what he's saying is true.

[SpAmRaY]

IIRC that was Brian @ ek dissing the krytox probably so he can sell more mech lube

[slinky773]

Hey, just a quick question: I (used to?) cube, and in cubing, we use silicon based oil, like Lubix or what I use, which is from thecubicle.us. Do you think this would be suitable for lubing switches? The lube itself is similar to Traxxas diff oil. Weight varies, but a common weight to use for cubes is 30k diff oil. I'm not sure what weight the lube I use would be closest too, though.

[jabbon]

IIRC that was Brian @ ek dissing the krytox probably so he can sell more mech lube

Would this mean that actually what he said makes no sense?

[Stabilized]

So I spent some time lubricating some of the vintage black key switches in the new keyboard I got (based around faceu replica) and I used two different types of krytox to try them out. I did a row of keys with 103 and a row with 107 using this guide.
I feel like the 107 gives the keys a gummy feeling, and this doesn't surprise me that much as it is very viscous, but I also get a similar feeling using the 103, which is a much lighter lubricant (maybe less gummyness on bottoming out).
TBH I am not sure if I would take the time to do it again! If I am opening up the switches to put in new springs I might put a dab on the sliders, but the whole rigmarole of dipping the spring is a bit lost on me.

Now; how do I remove lubricant from switches? Use some isopropyl alcohol?

[Zeal]

So I spent some time lubricating some of the vintage black key switches in the new keyboard I got (based around faceu replica) and I used two different types of krytox to try them out. I did a row of keys with 103 and a row with 107 using this guide.
I feel like the 107 gives the keys a gummy feeling, and this doesn't surprise me that much as it is very viscous, but I also get a similar feeling using the 103, which is a much lighter lubricant (maybe less gummyness on bottoming out).
TBH I am not sure if I would take the time to do it again! If I am opening up the switches to put in new springs I might put a dab on the sliders, but the whole rigmarole of dipping the spring is a bit lost on me.

Now; how do I remove lubricant from switches? Use some isopropyl alcohol?

You must rub it off on a cloth (like microfiber).

There's a reason why many people choose to blend krytox grease & oil together. I also would not recommend dipping a whole spring into oil.

[asgeirtj]

http://i.imgur.com/jVlMFd8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/F268jBV.jpg

Isn't this wayyy too much lubing?

https://imgur.com/a/qPNAw#bEHlfJ2 taken from this guide.

[pichu23]

http://i.imgur.com/jVlMFd8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/F268jBV.jpg

Isn't this wayyy too much lubing?

https://imgur.com/a/qPNAw#bEHlfJ2 taken from this guide.

Personally, I wouldn't use that amount. The amount of lube he used, I can use it for maybe 2 switches.

[Stabilized]

There's a reason why many people choose to blend krytox grease & oil together. I also would not recommend dipping a whole spring into oil.

Whoops, sorry I got my lubing guides mixed up and I don't think I made it that clear from the original post. What happened was I did use this guide on a number of switches but I also used WhireFireDragon's YouTube video and also DzyDzyDino's for a number of the other switches; I should say that this was my first time lubing switches (am a bit of a noob).
I found that using the 107 on the sliders made it feel gummy, and I assumed that because it was 1xx it was still considered oil and was suitable for using unmixed; I will make sure to mix it next time.

Did re-do a number of the switches just using the light 103 on the sliders and a bit of the springs; this is much nicer and I would totally use this method again, thanks

On the topic of the cloth though, wouldn't this leave residue?

[Bucake]

what's the difference between GPL205 and GPL206? and why do i never see 200-204 or 207 recommended?

and how much oz would be good for a keyboard? because i want to make sure i get enough for at least 3 boards

[asgeirtj]

Ming's Unofficial Guide to Lubing.

Preface: There are only two parts on a MX switch worth lubing, the gold crosspoint contact with the slider, and the channels in the bottom switch housing.

What do you want out of lubing?

What kind of feel do you want out of switches?

Lubing can either decrease or increase friction inside the switch.

To decrease friction for a smoother switch, use a thin lube on the slider arms and in the channels.
To increase friction, and enhance tactility, use a thick lube in the channels, and a very thick lube on the slider arms.

Some Notes: Be careful with the slider arms on a tactile switch, too much lube can kill the click, and the thick formulation is not thick enough to actually increase tactility.

OG Chatlog

More

[2/2/2014 10:10:12 PM] ming: i think it really depends on what kind of feel you want out of the switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:56 PM] ming: use a tiny bit of the right consistency of lube in the right place and you can almost any feel out of any switch
[2/2/2014 10:10:59 PM] ming: well
[2/2/2014 10:11:11 PM] ming: as long as that feel involves less friction somewhere
[2/2/2014 10:11:14 PM] ming: or more stiction
[2/2/2014 10:12:07 PM] ming: but any lubricant not on surfaces with dynamic friction is wasted lube that's going to get all over the place the second you start using the switches
[2/2/2014 10:12:22 PM] ming: if you look at a cherry switch
[2/2/2014 10:12:31 PM] ming: there's the slider, the bottom housing, top housing right
[2/2/2014 10:12:43 PM] ming: slider has back, front and sides
[2/2/2014 10:12:58 PM] ming: sides slide into two gussets in the bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:12 PM] ming: top housing has very little contact with slide, pretty much irrelevant
[2/2/2014 10:13:16 PM] ming: so you have slider and bottom housing
[2/2/2014 10:13:41 PM] ming: there are two points that are lubricated from the factory on any cherry switch. the furthest two points on the gold crosspoint contact
[2/2/2014 10:14:20 PM] ming: if you want a smoother less tactile switch, put a thin lube there
[2/2/2014 10:14:47 PM] ming: if that's not smooth enough for you, also lube the two gussets
[2/2/2014 10:16:14 PM] ming: all the stems have two little arms
[2/2/2014 10:16:17 PM] ming: that connect to those
[2/2/2014 10:16:21 PM] ming: those are the factory lube points
[2/2/2014 10:16:36 PM] ming: they use a silicone based lube
[2/2/2014 10:16:41 PM] ming: fairly viscous
[2/2/2014 10:17:16 PM] ming: if you want a more tactile switch, put thick stuff on the gussets
[2/2/2014 10:17:29 PM] ming: but you have to be careful about the slider face with tactile switches
[2/2/2014 10:17:41 PM] ming: hence the formulation of VERY THICK
[2/2/2014 10:17:53 PM] ming: thick is not thick enough for more tactility on slider face
[2/2/2014 10:18:20 PM] ming: same problem as topre sliders

I will be updating this with more info as I bug ming.

I'm confused about the terminology in this guide.  Ok so we have the stem, which has sliders on side and a double front thingy which touches the gold crosspoint in the bottom of the switch.  Is ming saying that you should put very thick on the front thingy's OR is he talking about the sides?. 

"There are only two parts on a MX switch worth lubing, the gold crosspoint contact with the slider, and the channels in the bottom switch housing."  Correct me if I'm wrong: lubing the sliders on the side and the bottom switch housing channels is essentially the same right?  This sentence implies that lubing the bottom of the stem/the hole in the bottom housing of a switch is not worth lubing, doesn't this make most lubing guides wrong, including the one in this thread?  This sentence also implies that a spring is not worth lubing, doesn't lubing the spring eliminate ping?

[phoenix1234]

what's the difference between GPL205 and GPL206? and why do i never see 200-204 or 207 recommended?

and how much oz would be good for a keyboard? because i want to make sure i get enough for at least 3 boards

Krytox 205 and 206 are significantly different. http://www.matweb.com/search/QuickText.aspx?SearchText=gpl%20205 http://www.matweb.com/search/QuickText.aspx?SearchText=gpl%20206

Dupont krytox 200-207, technically is 100-107 in grease form accordingly. If we open a new box of Krytox 200, we will see a small layer of Krytox GPL 100 separated.  I believe a lot of people in GH mixed and tried 100-107 vs 200-207, even the official GH lube kit is a mixture of GPL 206 + VPF 1506 (~ GPL 206 + GPL 102/103 ). However, the 107 or 207 has too high viscosity so it will heavily modify the keyboard feeling. A keyboard only needs about 3ml (~ 0.101442 oz US fluid)

[Bucake]

thanks alot for the detail, phoenix1234

[whentheclouds]

Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?

does anybody have an answer to this question?

[Skechup]

This is a cool guide!

I might use this on a Brown switch if I feel like it but I personally like Browns as they are. This might also be good for Blues if you want the click to be a touch quieter.

[phoenix1234]

Btw. Why do all buy Krytox GPL? See that on krytox homepage that the GPL 104 is a compressor oil. And you can get other compressor oil with the same viscosity @1l for about 6€? And 10g of Krytox costs 10$?

does anybody have an answer to this question?

Krytox 104 is a high quality oil.
By looking at the characteristic:

We can see that it is quite slow on evaporation, operational in wide temperature range, chemically inert, non-flammable, non-volatile and compatible with many applications as well as low viscosity.

[whentheclouds]

thanks. do you think it's worth paying premium for this? seeing as many of the factors you listed aren't applicable for the usage of lubing stabs

[Flyersfan1]

I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards.   ) )

[phoenix1234]

thanks. do you think it's worth paying premium for this? seeing as many of the factors you listed aren't applicable for the usage of lubing stabs

Correctly! Krytox 104 is good for the switch but it is not so good for the stabilizers.
If you want to lube the stabilizers, better use the Krytox 205 grease instead.
It has higher viscosity as well as grease property.
Nevertheless, you can always create a mixture between Krytox 104 and 205 to form a suitable fluid for your need.
To save time, you can also consider the GH lube, the experts already mixed it.

[Zukoi]

Can I use lithium grease for the silder? I have some lying around and I would like to use what I have already.

[nubbinator]

I think the folks over at Dupont would have a nice laugh if they knew we were using their industrial grade lubricants for our keyboards.   ) )

When I spoke to people over at Dow Corning, they were helpful and didn't laugh at all.