Author Topic: [IC] Phantom PLATES  (Read 54414 times)

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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 16:02:17 »
7bit layout anyone?
my layout would be the closest, I think it was eliminated because no one has need for 4 keys instead of spacebar.

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 20:09:28 »
I'm still waiting to get all the quotes back. I'm trying to convince them to count all the different plate designs as the same part so we get a better price tier, but they're pretty firm with different plate designs requiring separate quotes:

Quote
In regards to your question on whether if similar parts can be counted as the same, although the parts have similar over-all dimensions, each part will still require programming and set-up times factored into the pricing.  These two factors are what generally accrue most of the cost when fabricating a part.  Due to the programming and set-up times making up the majority of the cost, the price of making one part versus making 100 is slight.  You would basically only paying for the cost of material once a machine in running.
 
If treated as one part there would be only one programming and set-up fee, when in fact there are five programming and set-up times for five different parts.

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 20:32:51 »
I just made the responses public, I'll put this link in the OP as well. Right now there is an exact 50/50 split on aluminum vs stainless steel.




So basically with a 150 you can also use 1.25 modifiers but just without the menu modifier on the right? Unless I'm completely mistaken, but the 150 has the same mounting holes from what I can tell on the pics. How would a 1.5 modifier fit in there then? *confused*

Beast and bpiphany are right. You can technically fit a uniform 1.25x size modifiers in the 1.5x plate since the hole spacing between the two are exactly the same, but the 150 plate has a slight offset. This means there will be a tiny gap between the case-modifier, and modifier-spacebar if you use 1.25x caps on a 150 plate.


7bit layout anyone?

7bit plate was dropped because it just wasn't practical. You'd have to use normal modifiers and caps for the bottom row, and they don't have the correct curvature for your thumb. Also any key you choose to dedicate as a spacebar will be in an awkward position. I have the original 7bit plate, but couldn't find a proper use for it.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:03:01 »
seems like much les people want plates than PCBs lol which doesnt really work

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:07:39 »
Well it's only an interest check, so it doesn't matter too much if it doesn't get filled out. It only for gauging quotes so basically if you don't fill it out your opinion doesn't matter. When the order form goes up, ideally there should be 1 plate with every PCB ordered because the PCBs require a plate to mount it on the case.

Btw we both haven't even filled it out  ^-^

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:09:16 »
Well it's only an interest check, so it doesn't matter too much if it doesn't get filled out. It only for gauging quotes so basically if you don't fill it out your opinion doesn't matter. When the order form goes up, ideally there should be 1 plate with every PCB ordered because the PCBs require a plate to mount it on the case.
yep

Offline esoomenona

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:10:51 »
I'm interested in that plate jdcarpe posted.

Offline jabar

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:20:06 »
Mind you, the week between Christmas and New Years isn't the best time to gauge interest in this sort of thing. ;D

Personally I think the biggest decision is going Winkeyless or not, and having a unique layout such as the Profosist's.
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Offline zzAaron

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:20:22 »
What is the difference between SS and ALU? different feel? sounds? sturdiness?
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Offline Turkishrambo

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 21:23:23 »
What is the difference between SS and ALU? different feel? sounds? sturdiness?
It says in the OP

SS is heavier but  cannot be coloured.
ALU is lighter but u can colour it

Quote
Things that needs to be decided are material and color. Aluminum costs less, but weighs less. However it can be anodized to almost any color. Stainless steel is a couple bucks more per plate, but is heavier and most likely won't have any color. It's probably too cost prohibitive to powdercoat, and the powder will throw off the plate tolerances so I'll have to modify the plate of account for this.

Offline bavman

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 31 December 2012, 22:42:01 »
Mind you, the week between Christmas and New Years isn't the best time to gauge interest in this sort of thing. ;D

Personally I think the biggest decision is going Winkeyless or not, and having a unique layout such as the Profosist's.

We can probably run all 3 with a reasonable price, it just might be a little higher than if we picked just one, but it gives people to get what they want since there is a lot of interest for different styles.

What is the difference between SS and ALU? different feel? sounds? sturdiness?

From what I understand SS feels better than ALU but thats subjective. The main this is if you want color. The ALU can be powder coated without messing with the dimensions. The paint for SS is thicker than powder coat and will skew the dimensions and the plate would have to be redesigned to account for that. I believe someone said you can take SS to a blacksmith or like, and they can "blue" it, basically turning it black. ALU is also lighter, but would probably be a tad bit cheaper than SS as well

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 03:47:59 »
Alu can be anodized ss has to be powder coated which would screw witb dimentions.

Offline rindorbrot

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 09:21:27 »
Another quick question:

the OP says that these plates are also compatible with Cherry PCB-Mounted stabilizers.
But if I take a look at the Phantom's PCB I don't see the holes needed for those stabs.

So is the Phantom Plate-mounted stabs only?

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 09:26:20 »
Another quick question:

the OP says that these plates are also compatible with Cherry PCB-Mounted stabilizers.
But if I take a look at the Phantom's PCB I don't see the holes needed for those stabs.

So is the Phantom Plate-mounted stabs only?
yep plate mount cherry or costar only

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 09:31:40 »
One thing to note, although the plates may be compatible with PCB-mounted Cherry stabilizers, the Phantom PCB has no holes for them. If you are mounting this plate on a Phantom, you will be using plate mounted stabilizers, either Costar or Cherry.
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Offline bavman

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 10:01:01 »
Alu can be anodized ss has to be powder coated which would screw witb dimentions.

I was so close. This is why I let WFD write up this IC cause I knew I'd mess it up

Offline rindorbrot

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 10:02:59 »
OK, thanks guys.
Now I have to look for some plate-mounted Cherry stabs. Can you hint me where I could get them? I've seen Profosist offers them for his assembly services so I guess you know where to get them (though I'd prefer to buy them from somewhere in Europe to save on shipping)?

This also leads me to a further question:
Is it possible to use a stabilizer wire from a 7x PCB-mount Cherry stab on the plate mounted version or do I need to make my own (like for Costars)?
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 January 2013, 10:04:51 by rindorbrot »

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 10:07:47 »
OK, thanks guys.
Now I have to look for some plate-mounted Cherry stabs. Can you hint me where I could get them? I've seen Profosist offers them for his assembly services so I guess you know where to get them (though I'd prefer to buy them from somewhere in Europe to save on shipping)?

This also leads me to a further question:
Is it possible to use a stabilizer wire from a 7x PCB-mount Cherry stab on the plate mounted version or do I need to make my own (like for Costars)?

yo ucan get all the parts you need to build your phantom here and yo ucan even have it built for you if you dont want to or cant do it.

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 10:10:08 »
Everything is very similar on PCB/Plate mount cherry stabilizers. It's only the part that attaches to the PCB/Plate that is different. Having a wire of the correct length is the only problem (not in your case though). If you only need the Plate attachment part you can get 2x stabilizers http://octopart.com/partsearch#search/requestData&q=G99-0224

Offline inteli722

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 14:17:25 »
I'm very interested in a ANSI1.50x plate, specifically in a black anodized aluminum. You can add my interest to this, and I hope that this happens!
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Offline KuhnTang

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 17:42:01 »
I see the battle for Aluminum vs steel is very close.  I REALLY want Stainless.  I know people want stainless for the weight and aluminum for the color.  Someone mentioned "bluing" the steel.  Is that like what you do to your rifle?  I've seen them put some pretty cool colors on rifles at my local gun shop. 

Is there a way to do both stainless and aluminum?  That would make everyone happy happy. 

Offline r3dx

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 18:31:28 »
I see the battle for Aluminum vs steel is very close.  I REALLY want Stainless.  I know people want stainless for the weight and aluminum for the color.  Someone mentioned "bluing" the steel.  Is that like what you do to your rifle?  I've seen them put some pretty cool colors on rifles at my local gun shop. 

Is there a way to do both stainless and aluminum?  That would make everyone happy happy.

I would also be interested to see if it would be possible to get both made. I'm tempted to pick up one of each just to compare and have some variety.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 01 January 2013, 18:49:07 »
Anodized aluminum looks cool, and it stabilizes the switches just fine. But after buying 2 Poker plates and 2 Phantom plates in stainless, I now know that stainless is the way to go. My boards with stainless plates all feel rock solid. You might be able to flex the aluminum plate to a very small degree while typing, if you bang away at it. You aren't going to flex that stainless plate. It just ain't gonna happen.

I'll have to try bluing one of my stainless Phantom plates with a gun bluing kit. I hadn't thought about that, but I bet it would look cool.
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Offline xavierblak

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 02 January 2013, 09:37:41 »
7bit layout anyone?

I know I'm a little late to the game here but holidays have kept me from staying informed on this. I'd also be interested in the 7bit layout. I got excited when I heard there was another phantom gb in the works specifically for the 7bit layout. Any chance of this layout happening even if it just one or two plates?

Offline tubby

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 11:07:09 »
Anodized aluminum looks cool, and it stabilizes the switches just fine. But after buying 2 Poker plates and 2 Phantom plates in stainless, I now know that stainless is the way to go. My boards with stainless plates all feel rock solid. You might be able to flex the aluminum plate to a very small degree while typing, if you bang away at it. You aren't going to flex that stainless plate. It just ain't gonna happen.
If its not too much trouble, would you mind sharing a pic of one of your keyboard with the stainless plate on?
I can't seem to spot one from the pics on your sig ^^;
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 11:33:44 »
I will take the keycaps off my Poker and get some shots of the plate in action. When I get the photos taken, I will upload them in this thread. Until then, here is a little peek of the stainless plate on the Poker (you can just see it, if you look carefully):

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Offline t2russo

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 12:49:57 »
jd-

You will be unable to blue stainless at home.  Key being the STAINLESS vs regular carbon steel.  Stainless can be hot-blued, but even that is really tricky and few people can do it. So everyone should expect aluminum to be the only choice if they want to fuss with colors, otherwise the SS will remain as is.

http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/bluing-stainless-steel/  That's just the first thing when googling it, but as you can see on any firearms forum, guys ask about this all the time, and the answer they get is to either coat it or send it out to get it blued.

Just a quick tip!  I personally want un-touched stainless.  Shiny...

Offline esoomenona

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 12:51:43 »
Can't you powdercoat them? I'm going to do that. I figure any tolerances that I throw off, I will file back into place.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 12:56:35 »
As long as you make no effort to get the coating on the edges of the holes or even make some effort to avoid it then the thickness change should be no big deal.  Might avoid doing the bottom side tho.
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 12:59:47 »
What would you suggest to do that, alaric? Would something like cotton balls in them be enough?

Offline t2russo

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 13:07:04 »
Herein lies clearance issues that could bugger things up on a potentially tight squeeze.  My .2c from working on restoring old cars and guns (this is the first thing I've put together in the past year younger than '67), is to assume that when putting something together from reproduction parts of various vendors to NOT PAINT OR MODIFY ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE EVERYTHING.  The difference in times between pcbs, then plates, then cases means that you're basically hoping that everyone communicated perfectly in the first place, but you may have to make modifications just to get things to work and fit, not to mind aesthetics.

This part of the project is not so much electronics stuff, as it is metal assembly and prep.  Tolerances may differ, lines of communication will be crossed.  Let's first get some rough stuff in our hands and see what tweaks have to be made first.  But I can tell you now you cannot get a shop selectively powdercoat something on one side at a reasonable cost.  They suspend the object, throw a charge on it, then spray oppositely charged particles at it and bake it to create hopefully a solid finish.  I know of places that can do two tone (not bare and coated), but they do that using really expensive masking materials.  Again, assume anodized aluminum and bare SS are your choices folks, unless we have some mad scientists at home who aren't afraid to wreck a few plates in their ovens.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 13:20:52 »
From my limited experience powder coat doesn't like sharp edges or small surfaces, so the buildup inside the switch holes should be fairly small without any prep.  As for coating it one side,  it shouldn't be that hard to tell the shop to deliberately spray 1 side and not worry about what gets on the other as long as they don't intentionally spray the second side.  The hard part could be getting them to do the correct side.

With your statement of 'I'm going to do that' I assumed you literally were doing it yourself.
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Offline esoomenona

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 13:50:25 »
I'm sorry, I meant I was going to try to have it done. I don't have the equipment to do so myself.

Offline r3dx

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 20:52:42 »
Just submitted my form. I ended up deciding to go with stainless steel because it'll probably give a more solid feel to the board as a whole.
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Offline jdcarpe

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[IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #84 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 22:21:36 »
If its not too much trouble, would you mind sharing a pic of one of your keyboard with the stainless plate on?
I can't seem to spot one from the pics on your sig ^^;

Here's my Poker with stainless plate (in imsto alucase):





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Offline tubby

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 22:23:06 »
Thanks for the sneak peak, JD :)
Looks decent enough. I was worried it might give an unfinished look, but I'm actually liking the brushed finish.
And nice Julysicle :)
edit: Whoops, just noticed your new post. Thanks a lot, JD!
But I was actually hoping to see what it looks like with the keycaps on ^^;
Looks good even without them keycaps though :) Thanks again, JD.

But for those who prefer it colored, would plastic film, like those used for decals, stick well on the brushed steel surface?
If they would, it would serve their purpose nicely, and can be replaced with a different color pretty easily.
« Last Edit: Thu, 03 January 2013, 22:26:15 by tubby »
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Offline Glod

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 23:41:11 »
Here's my Poker with stainless plate (in imsto alucase):

that looks really good, i want one for my poker :)

you know.... not that it really matters at this point--or maybe it does; i change my interest from aluminum to stainless

Offline Soulpyre

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #87 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:06:25 »
Does anyone know if the Phantom PCB can support a bottom row configuration like the Realforce 87u's? Meaning 1.5x, 1x, 1.5x, 6.25x, 1.5x, 1x, 1x, 1.5x? I'd be highly interested in a plate for that config, but I haven't seen anyone else mention it.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:09:33 »
Nope, it doesn't. But the GH60 comes close. Problem is that's not a 6.25u spacebar, it's 6.00.

GH60 supports 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.5-1.0-1.0-1.5
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:12:15 by jdcarpe »
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Offline Soulpyre

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:36:45 »
Doh, oh well. Thanks for the quick reply jdcarpe!
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Offline oluf

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #90 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:52:14 »
Stainless steel looks amazing!! Would you paint/color a DeLorean? Hell no! =)

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:52:55 »
Whoo SS FTW!!!

Offline esoomenona

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 14:53:55 »
I would paint a DeLorean. And add ghost flames.

Offline oluf

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 15:00:43 »
I would paint a DeLorean. And add ghost flames.

Ouch!! A shame your DeLorean will never time travel with paint! =D

    Marty: "Wait a minute. Wait a minute Doc, are you telling me you built a time machine... out of a DeLorean?"
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 18:24:01 »
Does anyone know if the Phantom PCB can support a bottom row configuration like the Realforce 87u's? Meaning 1.5x, 1x, 1.5x, 6.25x, 1.5x, 1x, 1x, 1.5x? I'd be highly interested in a plate for that config, but I haven't seen anyone else mention it.
Nope, it doesn't. But the GH60 comes close. Problem is that's not a 6.25u spacebar, it's 6.00.

GH60 supports 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.5-1.0-1.0-1.5

Of course it does!! It was I who designed it =D

But the Realforce/HHKB layout is
1.50+1.00+1.50+6.00+1.50+1.00+1.00+1.50

Offline Acetrak

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 18:28:36 »
With the 6x space layout, I'm assuming that the stems are off centered, and is Cherry compatible? :)

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 18:51:05 »
Does anyone know if the Phantom PCB can support a bottom row configuration like the Realforce 87u's? Meaning 1.5x, 1x, 1.5x, 6.25x, 1.5x, 1x, 1x, 1.5x? I'd be highly interested in a plate for that config, but I haven't seen anyone else mention it.
Nope, it doesn't. But the GH60 comes close. Problem is that's not a 6.25u spacebar, it's 6.00.

GH60 supports 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.5-1.0-1.0-1.5

Of course it does!! It was I who designed it =D

But the Realforce/HHKB layout is
1.50+1.00+1.50+6.00+1.50+1.00+1.00+1.50

TIL.
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 19:06:09 »
With the 6x space layout, I'm assuming that the stems are off centered, and is Cherry compatible? :)

Say what? I don't know anything about Cherry spacebars... =P Is this what you are talking about? http://deskthority.net/wiki/Space_bar#6_units_.28114mm_wide.2C_3_keymounts.2C_57mm_and_38mm_apart.29 In that case you'd be lucky, that ends up on the same location as the center stem on the 7x spacebar. I designed the Realforce setup after a center stemmed spacebar though =)

TIL.

It even says so on the PCB somewhere ; )

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 19:44:37 »
that ends up on the same location as the center stem on the 7x spacebar.

Which is why Cherry did it.
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Offline reverkiller

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Re: [IC] Phantom PLATES
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 20:03:13 »
Any indication when this will move onto group buy?

Not that I'm in any rush. I don't get paid until next week and am a bit strapped for cash until then :P
Stockpile: Das Keyboard Ultimate (Blues), Ducky YotD (Reds), Model M ('87), Poker (Reds), Siig Minitouch (ALPS) || In Progress: Phantom || Wishlist: Filco Japanese Layout (Browns)