Universal break-offable programmable numpad (Prev. PHANTOMpad)

[simkev]

Maybe someone could simply design a 6x4 keypad with the same footprint (front-to-back) as the Phantom, as a small add-on to any TKL keyboard. You could program those keys to be anything you want, if you dont want just a numberpad. And you could place it to the right or left of your TKL board, per your personal preference. Just thinking out loud here.
It would be a nice feature if the top part could be off breakable, making the numpad ideal for your 60% board such as Poker, Pure, GH60 and 7bits upcoming HyperMini.
The PCB should support standard number pad layout but also full 1u. It would need two usb ports or at least two solder point for usb. The traces that would have two pass the break-off part will tricky. Maybe we could put solder pads for ribbon cable or have the traces go between the break off holes and make the traces brake when you brake the board, or have the traces go via a cable. I think it is possible.
Layout example:
The break-off line would be somewhere where the red line is drawn.

[Gupgup]

That would be awesome, I'm definitely interested in this!

[rindorbrot]

Interested if it comes in a nice aluminum case and is plate-mounted.

[simkev]

Well cases wouldnt be that hard to design, I could maybe do it myself but for that I nead a PCB to design it around and I got no knownledge in PCB designing. But since it has bean such amazing designing going around in this forum lately it wouldnt to hard.
I would like to see the chip and USB port to go directly on the board than on a daughter board if someone would be up for designing one.

[inteli722]

I would be really interested in this, but not for a Phantom (going for the dual layer numpad/normal keys approach at the right side of the keyboard). I would love this for a Leopold I have...

[Gupgup]

I would be really interested in this, but not for a Phantom (going for the dual layer numpad/normal keys approach at the right side of the keyboard). I would love this for a Leopold I have...

I think it would be sweet if it could work along any tenkeyless board, or even a 60% keyboard. Is this something that isn't possible or am I missing something plainly obvious?

[inteli722]

I would be really interested in this, but not for a Phantom (going for the dual layer numpad/normal keys approach at the right side of the keyboard). I would love this for a Leopold I have...

I think it would be sweet if it could work along any tenkeyless board, or even a 60% keyboard. Is this something that isn't possible or am I missing something plainly obvious?

Other than the controller, then this is completely possible! Filco and Cherry have/had different versions of 10key pad standalones. I'm not sure if the Teensey would work here, you might want to go for a built-in controller rather than going with a daughterboard.

[simkev]

I would be really interested in this, but not for a Phantom (going for the dual layer numpad/normal keys approach at the right side of the keyboard). I would love this for a Leopold I have...

I think it would be sweet if it could work along any tenkeyless board, or even a 60% keyboard. Is this something that isn't possible or am I missing something plainly obvious?

Nope, you ain't missing anything. This will be a standalone numpad that will be programmable which would work in addition to every keyboard out there and even on its own

[The_Beast]

There is already plans for a GH10pad to match the GH60, so is this still going to be a thing?

[inteli722]

I would be really interested in this, but not for a Phantom (going for the dual layer numpad/normal keys approach at the right side of the keyboard). I would love this for a Leopold I have...

I think it would be sweet if it could work along any tenkeyless board, or even a 60% keyboard. Is this something that isn't possible or am I missing something plainly obvious?

Nope, you ain't missing anything. This will be a standalone numpad that will be programmable which would work in addition to every keyboard out there and even on its own

now, would this work via a Teensey or an onboard controller?

[alaricljs]

The GH10 to match the GH60 has one less row of switches than a standard 10key, from the OP this project is the same exact thing with missing row added.

[inteli722]

The GH10 to match the GH60 has one less row of switches than a standard 10key, from the OP this project is the same exact thing with missing row added.

So the GH10 pad is missing the F14-16 above the 10Key? hmm. Not quite sure what to use those for (except to prove dirty trolls wrong by assigning one to F13.)

[simkev]

There is already plans for a GH10pad to match the GH60, so is this still going to be a thing?

I am fully aware of the GH10pad and I am going to buy at least two of those PCB:s.
This however is for a numpad which is 6x4 instead of the 5x4 that the GH10pad is for looking better besides an keyboard with an F-row.
I want this for the esthetically look of having a numpad with the same case and angle as the keyboard.
I think that was what they did with the Kmac and Kmac-pad, I aint sure though since I have really no knownledge in the korean kustomz at all.

[simkev]

The GH10 to match the GH60 has one less row of switches than a standard 10key, from the OP this project is the same exact thing with missing row added.

Exactly.

[alaricljs]

So to sum up, this could just be a follow on to the GH10 since you could very easily extend the PCB/matrix that small space and respin it a little.

[The_Beast]

Why not design the GH10 to be phantom number pad size, but have a snapable PCB to break it to a GH10 key pad?

I think Sam was designing a PCB that did that for a ton of different 75% layouts

[alaricljs]

Because the USB connector and quite a few traces cross that line you want to score, not so easy and not so pretty... but mebbe?

[The_Beast]

Because the USB connector and quite a few traces cross that line you want to score, not so easy and not so pretty... but mebbe?

I didn't even thing about that

[regack]

Because the USB connector and quite a few traces cross that line you want to score, not so easy and not so pretty... but mebbe?

I didn't even thing about that

So getting the snap off portion on the bottom is doable, but very messy in order to handle the bottom and right side where the 2x1s are (if it is also going to support 1x1s in their place).  It's doable, but messy looking.  But even then, it doesn't account for the spacing at the top of the pad if it is going to line up properly with a TKL.

It project might be easier to do, because there will be plenty of space in the gap between the top of the keypad and the Function keys to place a Teensy, and it can forego having to build the components onto the PCB.

[jdcarpe]

Just need a replacement controller for Filco numpad. bpiphany?

The breakaway PCB idea is great, and you don't even have to run traces across. You just put solder pads for ribbon cable. But the USB connector placement kills that idea.

Good luck with the project!

Edit: I'm starting to realize my addiction to emoticons. 

[simkev]

So to sum up, this could just be a follow on to the GH10 since you could very easily extend the PCB/matrix that small space and respin it a little.

Just what I thought. I dont think it would be that hard to modify the GH60pad to make this PCB possible.

[simkev]

Why not design the GH10 to be phantom number pad size, but have a snapable PCB to break it to a GH10 key pad?

I think Sam was designing a PCB that did that for a ton of different 75% layouts

Why not design the GH10 to be phantom number pad size, but have a snapable PCB to break it to a GH10 key pad?

I think Sam was designing a PCB that did that for a ton of different 75% layouts

Because the USB connector and quite a few traces cross that line you want to score, not so easy and not so pretty... but mebbe?

Because the USB connector and quite a few traces cross that line you want to score, not so easy and not so pretty... but mebbe?

I didn't even thing about that

Because the USB connector and quite a few traces cross that line you want to score, not so easy and not so pretty... but mebbe?

I didn't even thing about that

So getting the snap off portion on the bottom is doable, but very messy in order to handle the bottom and right side where the 2x1s are (if it is also going to support 1x1s in their place).  It's doable, but messy looking.  But even then, it doesn't account for the spacing at the top of the pad if it is going to line up properly with a TKL.

It project might be easier to do, because there will be plenty of space in the gap between the top of the keypad and the Function keys to place a Teensy, and it can forego having to build the components onto the PCB.

Just need a replacement controller for Filco numpad. bpiphany?

The breakaway PCB idea is great, and you don't even have to run traces across. You just put solder pads for ribbon cable. But the USB connector placement kills that idea.

Good luck with the project!

Edit: I'm starting to realize my addiction to emoticons. 

The break off numpad is a great idea.
Just need to tackle it from the right direction.
The controller would need to be located on the GH60 part and it would need two usb ports.
I wouldnt want a teensy to be used, rather the ATmega32u4 controller chip (or something like it). The daughter board is just in the way of my plans.
The break off line would have to go over the GH60 pad keys.
I hope you can understand me by checking the linked image.
Excuse my paint skills, whish I could design PCB:s on my own.
The PCB picture belongs to regack on this forum

The break off line would be the purple line right were the lower usb port is. since the usb port is located on one side of the PCB you would twist it the opposite way tho break it off.

[regack]

While I agree that integrating all of the components onto the board is a more elegant solution, it's my understanding that the Phantom (and ErgoDox) both used a Teensy and through-hole diodes.  I imagine this makes it a little more accessible for people doing DIY who can't (or don't want to try) doing SMD.  It's a little easier to design as well   Luckily Komar007 stepped in to work on the GHpad, perhaps when he's working on that he could adapt it this as well, but here's a quick go at a Teensy 2.0 powered board with 3 indicator LEDs under the F-keys (3-8 modes, I suppose).

I'm comfortable with using the Teensy and through-hole diodes, I've made that work before.  I'm trying to get my Github account back, so I can post this stuff up if anyone wants to play with it.

[gnubag]

i don't know if this is a viable idea, but couldn't you have the usb-port from the break away part connected to the connectors from the main board with a short cable.
this would be the easiest (not really the most clean) solution in my opinion if you want the break away pcb.

otherwise i would go with the teensy solution.

[simkev]

While I agree that integrating all of the components onto the board is a more elegant solution, it's my understanding that the Phantom (and ErgoDox) both used a Teensy and through-hole diodes.  I imagine this makes it a little more accessible for people doing DIY who can't (or don't want to try) doing SMD.  It's a little easier to design as well   Luckily Komar007 stepped in to work on the GHpad, perhaps when he's working on that he could adapt it this as well, but here's a quick go at a Teensy 2.0 powered board with 3 indicator LEDs under the F-keys (3-8 modes, I suppose).

I'm comfortable with using the Teensy and through-hole diodes, I've made that work before.  I'm trying to get my Github account back, so I can post this stuff up if anyone wants to play with it.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

This is amazing.
I envy all of you who can design this stuff.
I would like the usb port on the F-key part to be centered though, for unity with TKL boards who uses center mounted cable.
The port on the possible break-off-part should be align to the side for unity with 60% boards.
You are right about the Teensy and it would work perfectly with this board with f-keys but if we would be wanting to go for a break-off-able pcb we would have to go for the chip onboard.

[simkev]

i don't know if this is a viable idea, but couldn't you have the usb-port from the break away part connected to the connectors from the main board with a short cable.
this would be the easiest (not really the most clean) solution in my opinion if you want the break away pcb.

otherwise i would go with the teensy solution.

Ive given that a thought to.
You have a break off part where the tracers connect to the main part which houses the chip via a cable instead of some solder solution. perhaps a small molex or a small usb, just something that have enough pins for all the tracers and still will fit between the PCB and a potentially mounting plate.

[bpiphany]

Through hole soldering is really only for people who never tried SMD.. It's not that hard, and it is a lot tidier. Scale down to a 32u2 which is easier to fit and needs less bypass caps and stuff. You don't absolutely have to use 0603 components. But they are about as small as is comfortable hand soldering. Larger ones like 0805 for example only need to be spread out a bit more. Size comparison (don't mix the different 0603s up...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SMT_sizes,_based_on_original_by_Zureks.svg

[simkev]

Through hole soldering is really only for people who never tried SMD.. It's not that hard, and it is a lot tidier. Scale down to a 32u2 which is easier to fit and needs less bypass caps and stuff. You don't absolutely have to use 0603 components. But they are about as small as is comfortable hand soldering. Larger ones like 0805 for example only need to be spread out a bit more. Size comparison (don't mix the different 0603s up...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SMT_sizes,_based_on_original_by_Zureks.svg

I agree, would you maybe be up for designing it? I known that you know what you are doing when you are designing PCB:s. For the traces that would have to go over the breakoff point maybe they could go between the holes that would be drilled for breaking it off? Thereby when you break it off you would break off the traces to. Otherwise you could maybe have the traces go via cable?

[jdcarpe]

If it were me, I would put holes with solder pads on both sides of the score line to solder a short length of ribbon cable. You only need what, 8 or 9 traces across the score?

[simkev]

If it were me, I would put holes with solder pads on both sides of the score line to solder a short length of ribbon cable. You only need what, 8 or 9 traces across the score?

Yeah, that is a good solution. But it would require less soldering and maybe be cheaper (less components and less soldering) if the traces could go in the PCB between the holes that would be drilled to make the break-off line. I dont even know if that is possible but if it is, it would be ideal.