Sales and resales of keycaps for profit

[okooko]

Hi guys,

This is in regards, but not limited to threads such as
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40027.0

I really wanted to weigh in on the conversation at hand in the thread itself, but I want to respect the thread starter and general forum ettiquet by not potentially threadcrapping and annoying the mods./admins for no reason.

I am not trying to single out the above link (we all know theres been a few) but using it as a guide to form this discussion. I'm not sure if theres been something like this before but I made this thread in a heat of the moment so please bare with me =).

Hopefully this thread you can respectfully vent your angers and share your experiences with such things.
I hope Phetto comes in here to express his distaste without causing too much verbal snafu.

Plz discuss!

edit1: Thanks Samwise, yeah I only wanted a civilised discussion and for people to appropriately/respectfully convey their own ideas and thoughts

I am not against the action of this, as its one's decision/free reign to do as they please (forum rules abiding and all) in the sales. Despite the act been seen as vicious to some, its really just another day in the real world, where people make the most of their opportunities whether here on GH or elsewhere.

Phetto, I've bought stuff off you and for a good price despite shipping costs and going by the people involved/saw your sales thread, they can make their own opinions on what type of guy you are by selling what you sold for the price you did. And I'm sure the replies are unanimously positive and most would understand you sell to allow others to appreciate coz surely you made a loss on it.

Theres no point singling out anyone for these type of actions, as this happens more than you know (aka the number of eBay CCs in 'great finds' or 'worst finds') but at least drawing some attention to the issue will give other members their own evidence of these events and will it upto them to decide what they think about it and the people that do it.

tl,dr:
1.Phettos a top guy who sold his CCs to people hoping they would appreciate having them
2.Not everyone thinks like above and some resell for profit
3.My view: technically nothing wrong, morally sighing.

damn it boss called me into a meeting....will update with questions etc later!!
ok no more meetings for another hour.

[sth]

Come on guys - you are a bunch of grown men fighting over little pieces of colored plastic.

Be happy you have a roof over your head and food in your stomach.

[kmiller8]

Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/

[noisyturtle]

Oh boy here we go...

[kmiller8]

Oh boy here we go...

It's just our bi-weekly "vent-your-angry-thoughts" thread

[RougeR]

but but MUHH CLICK CLUCKS

* RougeR would burn them...BURN THEM ALL

[samwisekoi]

Ok, this is fine to discuss. Especially if it stays moderately polite. Also thanks to the OP for starting this as a new topic so people can choose to enter or not as they see fit.

I am going to venture an educated guess that this may wander a bit afield from discussing any particular keyboard, so I am going to move the thread to OT.

Have at it folks. No hitting below the belt - heck, let's just avoid mentioning things below the belt.

Enjoy!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[sth]

-- removed at phetto's request --

your ass is ok in my book you know we probably agree on more than we disagree about, including fair pricing for keyboard toys. i would be as frustrated as you are because i like the idea of a community that has no profit motives. i dont know if i am in the minority or the majority with that opinion because a few people on either side like to talk loudly about it and most people just stay out of the discussion because it always ends up in a flamewar. i try to stay out of that these days... got more important things to type about on my fancy keyboard.

[phetto]

When I started to get really mad was when I waited 1 day after I asked him in the thread, didnt get any response, even though he has logged on and off several times without answering.

[reverkiller]

Looking at the thread, it wasn't clear to me (and I'm sure anyone but the initial seller) that this was a quick resell. While I do feel a bit deceived by his wording (Selling things to finance a PC to me implies he's had them for a while and not simply fencing them.) However, I don't want to smirk his name. It is entirely possible he didn't realize how much money he needed for his computer or something.

This sort of practice is really hard to discourage and there seems to be one easy way to fix it - always sell something for its market value.

[The_Beast]

Looking at the thread, it wasn't clear to me (and I'm sure anyone but the initial seller) that this was a quick resell. While I do feel a bit deceived by his wording (Selling things to finance a PC to me implies he's had them for a while and not simply fencing them.) However, I don't want to smirk his name. It is entirely possible he didn't realize how much money he needed for his computer or something.

This sort of practice is really hard to discourage and there seems to be one easy way to fix it - always sell something for its market value.

Who defines the "market value" then?


Some people clacks are worth $500, others it's $5.

[vun]

My stance on this doesn't really include what the thread is probably all about; clacks. I don't care much for novelty caps, so my views are more about GBs and keycap sets, and sales in general.

I don't mind people making a profit from selling stuff on GH, that means(at least in theory) that they have greater interest and incentive to keep doing it and provide a reliable service. Of course if they're doing it at a loss or no profit then that means they have the dedication, but that also means that it's likely to go right to the bottom of their priorities if something comes up, for instance if they lose their job or other issues.
This (obviously) implies that everything is kept within reason.

It should also be noted that I have never actually bought or sold anything through GH, so I might be missing a point or two. I just find it far more comfortable to buy things from a store, for instance I'd rather get a Poker from kbtpure.com instead of waiting for some group buy that may or may not go as planned. Not saying that buying from a store is guaranteed to be flawless, but I just find ordering, paying and shipping to be far more convenient. If someone making a profit off of it is what it takes to get it set up like that, I'm fine with it.

Edit: sth posted while I typed this, and reading his post put words to something I, tired as I am at the moment, failed to put into words; profit motive. That's not what I'm talking about when I say I'm ok with them making a profit, I believe that the profit, if any, should be an incentive to keep doing it or doing it properly, not the main reason for doing it.

[phetto]

I wanted to sell them so people less fortunate could grab em, I know a guy that isnt in to clacks, but often says that he want stuff but cant afford it because of the pricing.. those kind of guys mainly..

[keymaster]

While I do not support or agree with the price gouging on novelty items, it is unfortunately inevitable. It is a part of human nature and is not preventable. Even if rules were in place to curb price gouging, people who wish to price gouge will find a way to sell to willing buyers.

While it may annoy you, it is best to ignore it. The less attention you bring to a thread with price gauging, the less of a chance there is for people to see it. Even though someone may buy it an item at unreasonable prices, you'll be satisfied to know it wasn't you that paid such a foolish price.

keymaster, acctually I paid something like the same price he sells them for.

My post wasn't aimed at anyone in specific.

[phetto]

keymaster, acctually I paid something like the same price he sells them for.

[okooko]

Ive updated OP!

Its nice that people are expressing their opinions and thoughts in a good fashion.

I've seen a few giveaways here and there that really bring back the feeling of community and it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling when the recipient is gracious.

Even if there was a pricing guide, which I believe is loosely being made (in a CC's thread - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39794.0#post_Price) courtesy of CPTBadAss.
Its probably the best thing we have at the moment.

One last thing, I'm pretty sure many people know who much these go for normally, but the guys that are snapping them up for higher prices probably have the money and wont mind paying premium for it.

[reverkiller]

Who defines the "market value" then?


Some people clacks are worth $500, others it's $5.

With something like clacks, its very hard to pin an exact value. Ideally, someone would track how much each clack sold for and could be used as a reference, but that isn't at all possible.

The only thing I can say is Phetto sold the clack for less on a condition he couldn't enforce but thought was natural, and when he realized he could enforce it he got upset. I empathize with him, but can't help but think this could've been avoided if he had made his intentions very clear.

[The_Beast]

Who defines the "market value" then?


Some people clacks are worth $500, others it's $5.

With something like clacks, its very hard to pin an exact value. Ideally, someone would track how much each clack sold for and could be used as a reference, but that isn't at all possible.

The only thing I can say is Phetto sold the clack for less on a condition he couldn't enforce but thought was natural, and when he realized he could enforce it he got upset. I empathize with him, but can't help but think this could've been avoided if he had made his intentions very clear.

It would be hard to track, but if someone really wanted to I guess they could


I do agree that what he did was REALLY ****ty

[Lanx]

lol, there's no such thing as fair market value on a forum board, for one thing, there's no market. half these items are "silent" auction or SOLD!, if everything was transparent and all prices were reflect, then i could wager theres a possibility of "fair market value" because at least in this way the community can see transactions done, and then access from there, much like the stock market, every trade and cash value is out in the open, that therefor creates a market.

what we currently have now, is subjective pricing, BUT with underhanded auctioning,imo the seller has too much power.

[okooko]

lol, there's no such thing as fair market value on a forum board, for one thing, there's no market. half these items are "silent" auction or SOLD!, if everything was transparent and all prices were reflect, then i could wager theres a possibility of "fair market value" because at least in this way the community can see transactions done, and then access from there, much like the stock market, every trade and cash value is out in the open, that therefor creates a market.

what we currently have now, is subjective pricing, BUT with underhanded auctioning,imo the seller has too much power.

I'm used to having a reserve price, instant price and a set date when the sale will end.
I don't like to see silent auctions as there is no transparency and how do you sell something without giving a price and using 'ask me and ill tell you if its good' sort of terminology.
But this is how it is, I guess the more aware the buyer are of the commercial values of these items, the less the ballooned costs for future sales.
But again, it doesnt stop people with the cash.

[Michael]

Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/

Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.

[sth]

Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/

Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.

yes the import market is pretty touchy... there is more to it than just getting the board. you can put somebody's rep on the line... just like if you invite people to a torrent site and they bomb, you get banned too.

[kmiller8]

Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.

ok, full story time then?

Someone approached me about buying a Korean board that explicitly said CONUS Only. (Yours)

They asked me to keep it secret because the last time they tried to get a Korean board (That was CONUS only), someone refused to sell to them, even after they had a proxy independently contact the seller, because they were based outside of the US.

You asked me if I had any Korean boards, and I, nor the person who paid for and received the board has had a Korean board before and it was their first. So I saw absolutely nothing wrong with this, I'm sorry that you did.

Once you had picked me as the buyer (I assumed because I was the first to contact who had not had a Korean board before) I notified the person who wanted the board and they wired me the money to pay for the board and their shipping.

You got your money, you left the site, and someone got their first Korean custom board.

But then...



MMB (or Bro Caps w/e), I have no problems with you, and I apologize that you had a problem with me proxying something for someone. Would you have been fine if I kept the board for a week and then re-listed it in the classifieds? Since that is what this thread is all about, flipping profits on something the second you get them. I did not make one cent on helping proxy that board, in fact, I lost about $20 in excessive shipping and a few goodies I threw in for the guy.

So MMBroCaps please get "outta this ****hole"



PS. I'd like to show the PM's we had about you "selecting" me but since your other account was deleted or something I cannot see the messages I sent you, only what you sent me.

[Michael]

Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.

Either way, you lied. That's the point.

[Gupgup]

Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.

I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.

GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK

ENDQUOTE

This was what bro caps said in the FS thread this all got started at, I copied it so I could reply here and not thread crap yet still share my opinion.

I have to agree with what he says, just because one person values a cap at one price, doesn't mean another person that really wants that one cap has the same value on it.

And although I don't agree with the whole idea of someone PMing a person going way over the asking price right away, it's kind of the same idea. That person that really wants the cap would obviously hold it higher and pay more for it.

May be a little off topic but it makes sense to me

[kmiller8]

Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.

Either way, you lied. That's the point.

What more would you expect from a liar and cheater

[sth]

Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.

I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.

GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK

ENDQUOTE

This was what bro caps said in the FS thread this all got started at, I copied it so I could reply here and not thread crap yet still share my opinion.

I have to agree with what he says, just because one person values a cap at one price, doesn't mean another person that really wants that one cap has the same value on it.

And although I don't agree with the whole idea of someone PMing a person going way over the asking price right away, it's kind of the same idea. That person that really wants the cap would obviously hold it higher and pay more for it.

May be a little off topic but it makes sense to me

the amount of money in your pocket has absolutely nothing to do with how badly you may or may not want something

[RougeR]

maybe im just spoilt with how good the deskthority community are

all ive said still stands...

- ive said it before, i will say it again. this is a community not an auction house.

when people offer a high price it means other have to pay a high price to compete driving and driving the item up.
the only way to do CC fairly is to either mass produce like red ESC or sell them for what they originally sold for when made.

as for proper stuff and not silly bits of plastic i feel people are fine to list stuff they have found cheap elsewhere and sell it at listprice or below here. My issue is with the selling and reselling games here and those which inflate prices.

[Michael]

Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.

Either way, you lied. That's the point.

What more would you expect from a liar and cheater

Nah, I was thinking you were just mildly retarded. It's cool, though.

mod edit: user was warned for this post

[singaporean123]

I think it's cool if both parties can agree with the price. It takes someone who want an item, and someone who wants to sell it for a trade to work ain't it?

So if two individuals value a key at $1000, and they are fine with selling/buying it for the price, I don't think there's anything wrong with it..

[kmiller8]

Nah, I was thinking you were just mildly retarded. It's cool, though.

[The_Beast]

Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.

Either way, you lied. That's the point.

What more would you expect from a liar and cheater

Nah, I was thinking you were just mildly retarded. It's cool, though.

That ain't cool bro

[Jocelyn]

I think it's cool if both parties can agree with the price. It takes someone who want an item, and someone who wants to sell it for a trade to work ain't it?

So if two individuals value a key at $1000, and they are fine with selling/buying it for the price, I don't think there's anything wrong with it..

Exactly. People are complaining about voluntary trade

[RougeR]

* RougeR goes back to being a good little commie

[hashbaz]

I think Rouger's point is valid.  Hugely inflated prices may be "fair" and they may be a reflection of supply and demand, but they do harm the community in the sense that they make things unavailable for many of the starving student types we have around here.

[sth]

I think it's cool if both parties can agree with the price. It takes someone who want an item, and someone who wants to sell it for a trade to work ain't it?

So if two individuals value a key at $1000, and they are fine with selling/buying it for the price, I don't think there's anything wrong with it..

Exactly. People are complaining about voluntary trade

voluntary trade inside of a relatively tiny community that is heavily affected by mob mentality when it comes to the expensive flavor of the month

[Michael]

I think Rouger's point is valid.  Hugely inflated prices may be "fair" and they may be a reflection of supply and demand, but they do harm the community in the sense that they make things unavailable for many of the starving student types we have around here.

In communist USSR, this would be a valid point. But this is a free capital market. If they are starving students, then they should be striving to make more money to afford things they want. People shouldn't be bullied into lowering their prices just because someone doesn't agree with them. It can't be any simpler than saying "If you don't like those prices, don't pay those prices".

In my last sale, I sold CC's for about 40 bucks each, shipped. I wanted people to have them at an affordable price. But I have no problems with people asking for more, especially since nntnam got a few of those from me, and it cost me quite a bit to obtain them. So I think he has every right to sell them at his asking prices.

[The_Beast]

I think Rouger's point is valid.  Hugely inflated prices may be "fair" and they may be a reflection of supply and demand, but they do harm the community in the sense that they make things unavailable for many of the starving student types we have around here.

In communist USSR, this would be a valid point. But this is a free capital market. If they are starving students, then they should be striving to make more money to afford things they want. People shouldn't be bullied into lowering their prices just because someone doesn't agree with them. It can't be any simpler than saying "If you don't like those prices, don't pay those prices".

In my last sale, I sold CC's for about 40 bucks each, shipped. I wanted people to have them at an affordable price. But I have no problems with people asking for more, especially since nntnam got a few of those from me, and it cost me quite a bit to obtain them. So I think he has every right to sell them at his asking prices.

Wait, I was only allowed 1 CC skull. Were others allow to buy more than one?

[Michael]

Wait, I was only allowed 1 CC skull. Were others allow to buy more than one?

Nope.

[Gupgup]

Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.

I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.

GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK

ENDQUOTE

This was what bro caps said in the FS thread this all got started at, I copied it so I could reply here and not thread crap yet still share my opinion.

I have to agree with what he says, just because one person values a cap at one price, doesn't mean another person that really wants that one cap has the same value on it.

And although I don't agree with the whole idea of someone PMing a person going way over the asking price right away, it's kind of the same idea. That person that really wants the cap would obviously hold it higher and pay more for it.

May be a little off topic but it makes sense to me

the amount of money in your pocket has absolutely nothing to do with how badly you may or may not want something

True, but if someone wants an item bad enough, they are going to be willing to pay more for it.

If you wanted to get rid of a cap quickly(like phetto) and I bought it, I would have more patience and ask for a higher price.

Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.

I'm not trying to make any enemy's here, I'm just sticking up for someone that I don't think did anything wrong.

[sth]

Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.

very few click clacks were ever sold by CC or EK for more than... what, 30 bucks or so? The most expensive one was a charity auction that CC himself contributed the key to.

[inlikeflynn]

Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.

you're right, it was more like $9 (solid color) and $18 (black tri-color) they went for originally 2 years ago on EK 

[hashbaz]

In communist USSR, this would be a valid point. But this is a free capital market. If they are starving students, then they should be striving to make more money to afford things they want. People shouldn't be bullied into lowering their prices just because someone doesn't agree with them. It can't be any simpler than saying "If you don't like those prices, don't pay those prices".

In my last sale, I sold CC's for about 40 bucks each, shipped. I wanted people to have them at an affordable price. But I have no problems with people asking for more, especially since nntnam got a few of those from me, and it cost me quite a bit to obtain them. So I think he has every right to sell them at his asking prices.

It's valid here too.  Community is a choice each of us individually makes.  We are not slaves to market forces.

[sth]

It's valid here too.  Community is a choice each of us individually makes.  We are not slaves to market forces.

hear hear.

[RougeR]

C O M M U N I T Y

[sth]

C O M M U N I T Y

B O O T A Y

[Gupgup]

Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.

you're right, it was more like $9 (solid color) and $18 (black tri-color) they went for originally 2 years ago on EK 

Oh man.. I guess I've gotten the wrong impression then! I'll admit when I was wrong, and man was I.

But you have to admit that these are obviously rare, and although you may see 50 as fair, I think 100 dollars is a good price for a piece that isn't made anymore. And among our community a lot of people like them cause they're rare.

Same with the ironmans and vaders.

My arguments are obviously terrible compared to bro caps, but I've been having to much fun for a Thursday night so that could explain it..

[RougeR]

* RougeR spanks sth' B O O T AY

[phetto]

Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.

I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.

GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK

Didnt you just make a statement here that means, its yours, do whatever you want with it, sell it to whoever you want or do whatever you want with it? at the same time you are calling me a whiner, when you are doing the exact same thing?

What are you trying to say really?

[Gupgup]

Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.

I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.

GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK

Didnt you just make a statement here that means, its yours, do whatever you want with it, sell it to whoever you want or do whatever you want with it? at the same time you are calling me a whiner, when you are doing the exact same thing?

What are you trying to say really?

What's he whining about?