Author Topic: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors  (Read 14185 times)

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Offline mkawa

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Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« on: Thu, 07 February 2013, 23:00:52 »
THIS IS A RECIPE

ingredients:


1) large axial fan. you want something between 180mm and 300mm in diameter. it is imperative that the fan have a flat outlet side and be rectangular (ie, no standing floor fans). pc case fans are the obvious choice.

you want something fairly low speed, so that you don't have a hurricane running next to you while you're trying to solder, and also so that it's cheap. the size specification is only if you plan on using the same cheap, easy to find and conveniently sized box that i did for the body of the filter.

2) activated charcoal (granules, not powder). incredibly cheap in bulk at amazon. if you don't want to wait, any pet store that sells supplies for keeping fish will sell this in bulk.

3) coarse post-filter medium. since you're already at the pet store, blue bonded filter pads work well. this media will replace the back of the box (to allow air to pass through, since your fan is probably not going to be the greatest at dealing with high static pressure, and it will do some mechanical filtering of the dust you get off of charcoal when you move it around.

4) a permeable cloth container for the charcoal. it's messy stuff, and it needs to be arranged so that as much air passes it as possible. i used a lingerie bag i pulled from a grocery aisle display the day i happened to be building mine. a big old piece of cheese cloth would also work fine.

5) a box. i used a USPS medium flat rate box (not the boxy version, the other one). it's just about the right size and depth, and they're conveniently located in the lobby of your local PO.

6) a shedload of tape. duct tape is good for sealing things, packing tape is good for attaching things (to other things). zip ties can be used when adhesive fails, but unlike tape, zip ties tend to disturb the force, and must be used carefully, young padawan.

theory:

activated charcoal works by being chemically attractive and by having an extremely irregular and convoluted surface. what this means is that it has insane amounts of surface area and that all the crap in the flux fumes that would normally coat your nasal passageways and upper respiratory tract will instead coat the carbon, as long as you can get the fumes to get relatively close to the carbon. this is what we use the fan and the box for.

construction:

cut a fan-sized hole in one side of the box. cut an exhaust sized hole in the other side. attach the fan to the fan-sized hole. if you want to be fancy, use self-tapping screws or some kind of mechanical fastener. if you just want to get **** done, use some tape. coming off? use more tape! make sure the fan is blowing into the box.

separately, lay out your charcoal bag and fill it with charcoal. partition your bag so that not all the charcoal ends up at the bottom if you hang the bag from something (like the top of a box).

stuff the charcoal bag into the box. attach it to the top of the box so that it's hanging approximately behind the fan.

close the box by taping your post-filter media over the exhaust hole.

FAQ:

how do i power my fan? if your fan is AC, attach it to mains power and a transformer if necessary. please don't kill yourself while doing this. if you fan is DC, batteries are good. AA battery holders with standard 9v battery terminals are usually pretty easy to find. if all else fails, most radioshacks are forced to sell this stuff because of some idiot in upper management. if you are like half this board and have a box full of wall warts without things to power, find a wall-wart of approximately the right voltage and wire it to the fan.

what if my fan has LEDs? then it's a party and a fume extractor in one. savor it.

my box keeps toppling over? i actually clamped mine to my desk with some extra cardboard and liberal applications of tape. at the very least, you can use cardboard and tape to give the box a wider base.

does the fan have to blow directly into the charcoal? you'll probably need to balance static pressure of the box with the amount of air passing over the charcoal. if your 10$ axial fan is blowing directly into 3in of activated charcoal, it's probably not going to move enough air to suck the solder fumes away from your soldering iron. one can move the charcoal part of the filter around in the box until there's enough of a low-resistance airway for the fan motor not to be overpowered, but enough charcoal near the airflow for the fumes to disappear into the carbon.


ABOVE: SOLDERING STATION FIT FOR A KING
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 July 2013, 06:51:56 by mkawa »

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Offline sordna

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 01:52:19 »
Nice! Although I like the smell of soldering... am I the only one?
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Offline Sifo

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 01:53:24 »
I like the smell too
I love Elzy

Offline rknize

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 01:58:39 »
Mmm...burning wood rosin.
Russ

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 10:22:13 »
I like the smell, as well. :)
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Offline Parak

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 11:46:09 »
How about using something like http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HSOWRS as a single layer? Would probably be a bit less of a hassle and less of a mess than dealing with loose charcoal.

Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 14:15:56 »
every so-called "activated charcoal mesh" screen i've ever seen has had very little activated charcoal, ie orders of magnitude less surface area. the mesh material also cost orders of magnitude more than the pellets. to make pellets, you basically just burn some coconut husks. to make the mesh screens you need much fancier tooling.

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Offline merijn

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 14:17:17 »
Why not get a big case fan and solder an usb cable to it? That's what I did.

Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 08 February 2013, 14:23:34 »
you can do that, but keep in mind that your fan better draw less than 500ma or it could pop the fuse on your USB port

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Offline bpiphany

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 09 February 2013, 08:15:21 »
My experience tells me USB ports have some kind of protection circuitry shutting them down if they are overloaded. May well be a resettable fuse, I have no clue...

If you are in a well ventilated area, and don't do soldering all the time, a small fan just moving the smoke a couple of feet away from you is probably enough to have the ventilation handle the rest. I often put one of those large floor fans on a stand next to the table when soldering. It sucks away pretty much all the smoke, even on the lowest setting from a foot away or so.

Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 09 February 2013, 11:29:53 »
all the implementations i've seen have non-resettable fuses. that said, USB3 implementations and the non-standard USB2 1A high current implementations may do something entirely different, as they implement the high current and ultra-high current USB modes that would preclude having some dinky 500ma fuse in or on the port :P

also, word from the not-so-wise, bpiph, throw a bag of charcoal somewhere behind that fan of yours. it doesn't have to be directly in the path of the exhaust air, but near enough that the particles that make up the fumes will pass nearby. believe me, you will thank me later (*later may be decades from now, but YOU WILL THANK ME DAMNIT! ;))
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 February 2013, 11:31:27 by mkawa »

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Offline alaricljs

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 09 February 2013, 16:08:47 »
Like when you move the dresser and realize the wall around it isn't quite the same color as you started with.
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Offline rknize

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 09 February 2013, 16:25:22 »
^ that sort of thing can usually be addressed with sunscreen.
Russ

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 14 February 2013, 00:58:20 »
I am tired so I didn't read much, but this is a cool vid I found a while back:

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Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 15 February 2013, 01:46:03 »
^ that sort of thing can usually be addressed with sunscreen.
TSP also works, but after the TSP you have to repaint sooooo

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Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:37:23 »
here are my newer designs using more charcoal (abs fumes NOT GOOD SMELL). the fans are 120vac 40w 176mm units i found at a surplus place. the basic idea behind filtering is to expose as much ionized carbon surface area to air for as long as possible. that means either very powerful fans and lots of carbon with the air cycling through the unit many times before it is "clean", or slowing the air down when it hits the carbon. these units are the former type. my next try will be a tubular design using both of the fans in the picture in push/pull through 180mm tubing that expands to become a large (maybe a board game box? possibly just a bunch of HDPE bags..) chamber packed completely with carbon then narrows to 180mm again. venturi or bernoulli or whoever the **** will make sure that the air velocity drops when it hits the carbon.


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Offline rowdy

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 17:22:02 »
I like the smell - it is something I look forward to on the very few occasions I get the iron out these days.

I thought I was a bit weird - my other half hates the smell.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 17:25:29 »
that's because it smells terrible

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Offline rowdy

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 26 June 2013, 18:08:11 »
Actually no, it is because she has no lining in her nose after a botched operation :(
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 20:19:07 »
oh god. it must sear so badly. hell, everything must sear so badly. :( sad to hear. hopefully she has good low-pressure aerosol treatments that mitigate lack of lining?

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 06:40:53 »
I love the smell of solder in the morning!

Anyway, tried to use a small fan, but it seems heating up pins/pads takes longer as the air circulation draws away heat...
Played with the idea to loop its power trough a foot-switch so I can activate it as needed (after putting the solder on etc.)
« Last Edit: Sun, 30 June 2013, 06:43:51 by TheSoulhunter »

Offline mkawa

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 11:41:58 »
sounds like it's time for a hakko 888 or weller wsd50+. these guys run enough power that air flow in the general vicinity of your workspace isn't going to significantly affect their thermals.

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 22:18:59 »
sounds like it's time for a hakko 888 or weller wsd50+. these guys run enough power that air flow in the general vicinity of your workspace isn't going to significantly affect their thermals.

That was actually with a Hakko 888 (set to ~350°C) :D
Don't wanna go much higher, but perhaps I can lower the fan speed somewhat with a resistor.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 22:42:31 »
Wow, how fast is the *wind*?  I have my ventilation going within inches of the PCBs and my 888 set to 275C without issue.
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Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: soldering stinks! DIY fume extractors
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 22:44:02 »
Nice! Although I like the smell of soldering... am I the only one?
Only with lead solder. Lead free smells awful. Ever since I started using lead I haven't felt the need to remove the fumes.

Offline mkawa

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 06:55:10 »
regarding sources of carbon, these guys: http://www.activatedcarbon.com/ gave me bulk pricing on relatively small quantities of carbon. in particular, they'll give me 20lbs@1$/lb of 4x8mm nominal all day long. going by the trucks in the loading bay, the next price break is probably at a ton.

that said, they were super nice about it. every other filter material distributor i contacted completely ignored me, and this sure beats getting completely inappropriate aquarium charcoal from petco for 4+ bucks a pound.

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 07:41:00 »
Wow, how fast is the *wind*?  I have my ventilation going within inches of the PCBs and my 888 set to 275C without issue.

120mm @ 1200RPM @ ~40cm distance...
It's not like soldering gets complicated, heatup is just out of sync with my pacing if that makes sense.


Offline mkawa

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 08:27:00 »
that's weird. i literally have a 40W 180mm 120VAC fan going (two of them!) about 2x that far (max) from my station and i get instant thermal recovery even at 350C. your hakko, are you getting the heatup dot (right lower corner) a lot when you're on the joint? is the joint HUGE? (ie, are the two pieces of metal you're soldering like, the titanic and the empire state building?)

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 11:56:15 »
I have the analog 888, and yeah, the LED lights up for a split second when touching the joint, but also without fan...
The difference with-vs-without fan is kinda minimal, but it's noticeable (probably slightly below 1 sec. -vs slightly above 1 sec.)
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 July 2013, 12:03:14 by TheSoulhunter »

Offline mkawa

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 19:05:51 »
which tip are you using? remember that the smaller teh tip, the smaller the surface area transferring heat to the joint

i typically use the d16, but i also have a d32 for big ass joints

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 01 July 2013, 21:43:13 »
I mostly use the d24 for switch and LED soldering...

Offline mkawa

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:23:28 »
yah the D32 is massive. i was hitting up a transformer yesterday and it killed. i love it!

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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 01 May 2014, 23:27:30 »
bookmarked! Don't want to breathe in lead :))

Offline mkawa

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Re: Soldering/Melted plastic stinks! DIY Fume Extractors
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 02 May 2014, 01:15:11 »
lead doesn't vaporize at soldering temperatures. flux does vaporize, as it's pretty volatile stuff by nature, being basically an organic solvent with a corrosive even more volatile additive.

lead traces do get on your hands though when you handle solder, but inorganic lead doesn't readily absorb through the skin unless there are breaks in the skin. however, lead absorbs pretty readily into mucosal membranes such as the lips and mouth, so wash your hands thoroughly before handling food or eating. lead and other heavy metals are particularly nasty because of their long half-lives. lead that collects in the bones has a half-life in the decades. another heavy metal with similar absorption and half-life behavior you may be familiar with is mercury.

fun fact! both lead and mercury were used commonly in household products in the 1700s. mercury was thought to be a tonic that tamed the humors (medicine was hilariously backward then; i'll just leave it at that). lead was used for color in just about everything, most importantly in the makeup used by women of the bourgeois. lead and mercury poisoning in adults has very non-specific symptoms as it tends towards disruption of the central nervous system, and is particularly dangerous when exposure is chronic because even low levels of chronic exposure tend to collect in the brain, lipids and bone (where they are released, slowly to collect in the brain).

that said, you'd have to be munching down on solder every day to experience symptoms of lead poisoning. the largest lead poisoning danger is still leaded paint in old buildings (as it slowly aerosolizes).

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.