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Author Topic: N-key rollover test.  (Read 108107 times)

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Offline zillidot

  • Posts: 65
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 16 February 2008, 21:14:20 »
Quote from: xsphat;2996
7 keys at a time with my brand new shiny Filco (model number in sig).
Which keys?
(Read the thread to see why it matters which keys are used for testing. And please do test using the suggested key combinations, and not just any old bunch of keys!)
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My keyboards:
Realforce 87U (all 55g)
HHKB Pro 2 (black on black)
Filco Majestouch (n-key rollover, brown cherries)
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black with black keys)

Offline xsphat

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 17 February 2008, 00:34:55 »
Hope this helps you:

Done via USB on a MacBook with OS X 10.5.2
The keyboard has an American layout and I use qwerty.

Going for a max number


Using different rows and playing around


This one is easy to figure out.
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Dell SK-8125
The best keyboard is the one that's in front of you.

Offline zillidot

  • Posts: 65
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 17 February 2008, 02:05:38 »
Quote from: xsphat;3009
Hope this helps you:

Done via USB on a MacBook with OS X 10.5.2
The keyboard has an American layout and I use qwerty.

Ok thanks. :) The more interesting number is the minimum number of keys when it fails, not the maximum.
Can you test using the combinations QWAS and QWEASD? I think they should fail on the non n-key rollover model. But they work (all keys register) on my keyboard, the n-key-rollover version of the Filco. I'd like to think that there is a difference between the two models!
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My keyboards:
Realforce 87U (all 55g)
HHKB Pro 2 (black on black)
Filco Majestouch (n-key rollover, brown cherries)
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black with black keys)

Offline IBI

  • Posts: 644
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 17 February 2008, 10:41:26 »
QWAS fails on my MS internet keyboard, and I've noticed key blocking problems in real use too (although only when gaming).
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Owned: Raptor-Gaming K1 (linear MX)(Broken), IBM Model M UK, Dell AT102W, Left-handed keyboard with Type 1 Simplified Alps.

Offline xsphat

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 17 February 2008, 11:13:43 »
You're right, both combos you mentioned failed. It usually showed up as registering 2 keys.
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Dell SK-8125
The best keyboard is the one that's in front of you.

Offline zillidot

  • Posts: 65
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 17 February 2008, 18:02:50 »
Quote from: xsphat;3024
You're right, both combos you mentioned failed. It usually showed up as registering 2 keys.

Thanks, that's the kind of info I'm looking for.
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My keyboards:
Realforce 87U (all 55g)
HHKB Pro 2 (black on black)
Filco Majestouch (n-key rollover, brown cherries)
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black with black keys)

Offline xsphat

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 17 February 2008, 18:08:21 »
No prob, that's why we're here.
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Dell SK-8125
The best keyboard is the one that's in front of you.

Offline xsphat

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 18 February 2008, 11:01:45 »
Hey Zillidot, have tested your Filco connected to USB? Might be interesting.
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Dell SK-8125
The best keyboard is the one that's in front of you.

Offline fkeidjn

  • Posts: 319
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 18 February 2008, 12:29:35 »
So n-key rollover doesn't happen through USB connections?  Am I missing out on something?
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Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline xsphat

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 18 February 2008, 12:55:19 »
There is supposedly a bandwidth limitation on USB so only 6 keys can be registered at once. Everyone here is able to get 7 on decent keyboards, but no more than that, so I don't know.
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Dell SK-8125
The best keyboard is the one that's in front of you.

Offline zillidot

  • Posts: 65
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 18 February 2008, 18:37:05 »
Quote from: xsphat;3075
Hey Zillidot, have tested your Filco connected to USB? Might be interesting.
Yes, it registers at most 6 keys on USB. So QWEASD works but QWERASD doesn't.
It's worked with every combination of 6 keys I've tested so far, including those which normally fail on non n-key capable keyboards.
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My keyboards:
Realforce 87U (all 55g)
HHKB Pro 2 (black on black)
Filco Majestouch (n-key rollover, brown cherries)
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black with black keys)

Offline xsphat

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 18 February 2008, 18:45:54 »
Cool. This is kind of interesting.

How do you like your Filco?
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Dell SK-8125
The best keyboard is the one that's in front of you.

Offline zillidot

  • Posts: 65
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 19 February 2008, 02:00:37 »
Quote from: xsphat;3106
How do you like your Filco?

it's nice to type on. The lightness of the switches seem to make typing "easier", especially compared to my old buckling spring keyboard. I can't say I've noticed the advantages of n-key rollover in actual use, but then I haven't played many games lately.

It's not without its problems though. On my keyboard I get the occasional key bounce, where a key is registered twice when it's only pressed once. But it's pretty rare, and hasn't happened often enough to be annoying yet.
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My keyboards:
Realforce 87U (all 55g)
HHKB Pro 2 (black on black)
Filco Majestouch (n-key rollover, brown cherries)
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black with black keys)

Offline xsphat

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 19 February 2008, 02:08:12 »
The only problem I've noticed on mine isn't really a problem at all. Once in a while, I bump or brush over the keyboard or whatever, which I'm sure I've done on my other keyboards, but on this one, that stuff usually registers keystrokes. So in the act of putting a bottle of soda on my desk I'll create a new folder on my desktop.

I haven't had any ghosting or key bounce yet, though. I don't anticipate having problems with ghosting on this keyboard but that key bounce thing is fairly common with mechanical keyboards in my experience. I get that on the HHKB and the Alps 'boards.
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Dell SK-8125
The best keyboard is the one that's in front of you.

Offline IBI

  • Posts: 644
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 26 February 2008, 07:48:31 »
Model M, 1391406, Blue label with detatchable cord and 22/10/1993 birthdate.

Fails on QWAS.

What about the arrow keys? Are they affected by by the key-conflicts? I couldn't check because they aren't registering in the detector.
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Owned: Raptor-Gaming K1 (linear MX)(Broken), IBM Model M UK, Dell AT102W, Left-handed keyboard with Type 1 Simplified Alps.

Offline ecru

  • Posts: 91
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 27 February 2008, 19:39:15 »
Unicomp 42H1292U, 02/01/08
Interface: ps/2
Operating System: Mepis 6.5 - dvorak layout
Max keys accepted: 2 - ',ao test (qwas for sholes users)

edit update
Not suitable for gaming where you use multiple keys (fails rtcw-et, passes openarena)
Unfortunately Unicomp don't currently make or plan to make a model that will recognise more keys.
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Offline IBI

  • Posts: 644
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 29 February 2008, 11:30:28 »
Dell AT102W black 75mA edition rev A01

Fails on QWAS
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Owned: Raptor-Gaming K1 (linear MX)(Broken), IBM Model M UK, Dell AT102W, Left-handed keyboard with Type 1 Simplified Alps.

Offline fkeidjn

  • Posts: 319
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 29 February 2008, 18:16:04 »
Filco, n-key rollover, brown Cherries

Well, it does what it says it does, the most so far being 22 keys

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Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline bhtooefr

  • Posts: 2474
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 01 March 2008, 17:08:51 »
IBM Model M, 1391401, ID 0126050, manufactured 1993-06-03 in the USA, with a controller out of a 52G9658 ID 0077785, manufactured 1993-08-28 in the USA by Lexmark.
Connection: USB, via a Belkin F5U119vE1
Operating system: Tested on both XP Tablet 2005 and OS X 10.5.2

Fails on QWA, ERT, TYU, a bunch of other stuff... this thing's only 2-key rollover.
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want mature keyboard discussion? try deskthority.

Offline fkeidjn

  • Posts: 319
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 01 March 2008, 18:12:10 »
USB adapters can't handle model M keyboards very well.  Through a ps/2 connection, it can handle up to 8, but fails on "qwas" and the like.  Through a Ziotek USB adapter, it can only handle up to 5.
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Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline bhtooefr

  • Posts: 2474
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 01 March 2008, 18:22:00 »
OK, it fails ERT (at least) on my Dell with an Intel CA810E motherboard and Ubuntu 7.04, connected via PS/2, as well. ;)

I was going for minimum, not maximum.
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want mature keyboard discussion? try deskthority.

Offline pex

  • Posts: 215
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 02 March 2008, 01:57:08 »
Quote
Unfortunately Unicomp don't currently make or plan to make a model that will recognise more keys.

I thought they would fabricate you anything you wanted.  They may not mass produce such a model.

Quote
I was going for minimum, not maximum.

Maximum is important for establishing that a keyboard will push through at least that many keys potential, but is wholly unimportant for practical uses because the keys are most often awkward choices on the keyboard for any use.

Minimum means there is at least one failure of choice.  Choice is the whole point to rollover.
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⌨Ж®Cherry G80-8113 (someday I hope to have one that reads magstripes, rfid cards, and smartcards), ⌨broken \'98 42H1292 Model M, ⌨some other Model M from a decade before that, ⌨30 more keyboards in a box, ⌨4 more lying here or there
Destroying Sanctity: my Model M project. Status: Dead.

Online iMav

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 02 March 2008, 13:38:24 »
Quote from: pex;3335
I thought they would fabricate you anything you wanted.  They may not mass produce such a model.

They won't even bother unless you are going to be buying a LOT of them.  I've spoke with them about a couple of different custom ideas and they were totally uninterested as I was not going to be buying 1000's of them.

If you want some different keycaps...sure, they will likely help you out.  But if you want a different layout or anything else major...good luck.
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Offline zerogravitas

  • Posts: 57
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 22 March 2008, 22:13:11 »
EPS branded Fujitsu FKB4700 (bought off ebay for $1)

Failed on "uio" and "qws" so far.
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Offline ecru

  • Posts: 91
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 23 March 2008, 17:43:09 »
Focus Electronics FK6200 (branded EZ KEY), no date on label or cast in the plastic
Interface: 5 pin DIN replaced with ps/2
Operating System: Debian Lenny - dvorak layout
5 key rollover - ',.aoe test (qweasd for sholes users)

notes
Rubber dome with spring loaded striker - looks like a black switch with white sliders at first glance.
Feels much less crisp than Unicomp 42H1292U or black alps with white sliders, but better than typical rubber domes.  Keycaps are wobbly too.
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Offline IBI

  • Posts: 644
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 28 March 2008, 12:14:38 »
Raptor-Gaming K1. Passes QW AS and QWE ASD, gives QWERAS on QWER ASDF

I'll post details later, first impressions are excellent though.
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Owned: Raptor-Gaming K1 (linear MX)(Broken), IBM Model M UK, Dell AT102W, Left-handed keyboard with Type 1 Simplified Alps.

Offline Warm Woolly Sheep

  • Posts: 14
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 12 April 2008, 03:48:23 »
Logitech Classic Keyboard 200
Model: Y-UR83
Interface: USB
N-key-rollover: 6
keys used: qasdew

Bought it for $20 at office max while I wait for my endurapro to arrive.
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Online iMav

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N-key rollover test.
« Reply #57 on: Sat, 12 April 2008, 09:01:19 »
Quote from: Warm Woolly Sheep;3921
Bought it for $20 at office max while I wait for my endurapro to arrive.
I'm quite fond of my EnduraPro.  I think you will be pleased with it.

BTW, Welcome to GeekHack!  ;)
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Offline bigpook

  • Posts: 3036
just what is this n-key rollover that you speak of?
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 18 April 2008, 06:11:35 »
What is the point of knowing your n-key rollover?
What practial purpose does it server?
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HHKB Pro 2 : Unicomp Spacesaver : IBM Model M : DasIII    

Offline zillidot

  • Posts: 65
N-key rollover test.
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 18 April 2008, 18:54:32 »
Quote from: bigpook;4065
What is the point of knowing your n-key rollover?
What practial purpose does it server?
One may also ask what's the point of spending $200 on a keyboard. :)

Seriously though, one thing it's useful for is gaming. Games sometimes require pressing multiple keys at once, often in a cluster. Some keyboards have trouble with that.
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My keyboards:
Realforce 87U (all 55g)
HHKB Pro 2 (black on black)
Filco Majestouch (n-key rollover, brown cherries)
Unicomp Customizer 101 (black with black keys)
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