Author Topic: Black Blanks (Read 6724 times)

cobraj · « **on:** Wed, 13 March 2013, 19:04:23 »

Hey bros

Anyone know where to get Black Blank Keycaps, in a Cherry Profile.
PBT preferred. (I still cry every night that there is no thick PBT for this, yet:P)

Thanks

Jocelyn · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 13 March 2013, 19:06:34 »

Welcome to the club of eternal waiting for caps like this

cobraj · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 13 March 2013, 19:10:57 »

Quote from: Jocelyn on Wed, 13 March 2013, 19:06:34

Welcome to the club of eternal waiting for caps like this

Haha yeah.
Feng has some up on his ebay store, but they are OEM

Guess I might just have to settle.
Unless someone has a miraculous link :O

esoomenona · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 13 March 2013, 20:00:32 »

Find a Das Keyboard II. They're POM, but pretty close.

Jocelyn · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 13 March 2013, 20:22:22 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Wed, 13 March 2013, 20:00:32

Find a Das Keyboard II. They're POM, but pretty close.

Aren't they taller than Cherry profile?

esoomenona · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 13 March 2013, 20:23:50 »

Nope. They're Cherry profile, made by Cherry.

Jocelyn · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 03:13:04 »

Is there any chance of doing a very dark grey, charcoal, graphite, or black Thick PBT Cherry blanks GB? They've done white blanks, white/light gray blanks, more white blanks, medium gray blanks, blue blanks, and even more white blanks, so why can't we do one of something very dark and blank? I know the demand is there, so what's everyone think?

Edit - I realize this would most likely prevent people from ordering caps with legends, meaning the totals would be lower, but I've seen people posting and requesting these for over a year.

cobraj · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 04:10:11 »

Quote from: Jocelyn on Thu, 14 March 2013, 03:13:04

Is there any chance of doing a very dark grey, charcoal, graphite, or black Thick PBT Cherry blanks GB? They've done white blanks, white/light gray blanks, more white blanks, medium gray blanks, blue blanks, and even more white blanks, so why can't we do one of something very dark and blank? I know the demand is there, so what's everyone think?

Edit - I realize this would most likely prevent people from ordering caps with legends, meaning the totals would be lower, but I've seen people posting and requesting these for over a year.

Yeah I would definitely be in.
I would do these if I knew how to do a Group Buy & I didn't live in Australia (meaning shipping for everyone is ridic

)

Jocelyn · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 04:32:32 »

Quote from: cobraj on Thu, 14 March 2013, 04:10:11

Yeah I would definitely be in.
I would do these if I knew how to do a Group Buy & I didn't live in Australia (meaning shipping for everyone is ridic )

Yeah I don't have enough time for huge group buy kinda stuff, but I want these to use alone or as modifiers for my incoming Thick Blue Cherry Legend (Black) & Hangul Legends (Red) set.

I think black would be ideal, but I'd even be okay with something like this (HHKB) if it was offered in blanks and meant a better chance of happening due to more sets being sold.

esoomenona · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 05:18:37 »

I would assume it is possible, but the MOQ is really high. IIRC, imsto's is like 16,000, and if that's considering each cap in a set, that's at least 152 sets. I'm not even certain that lysol's GB made that many.

cobraj · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 05:37:13 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Thu, 14 March 2013, 05:18:37

I would assume it is possible, but the MOQ is really high. IIRC, imsto's is like 16,000, and if that's considering each cap in a set, that's at least 152 sets. I'm not even certain that lysol's GB made that many.

True.
But suppose could do an IC and see just how many people are keen?

esoomenona · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 08:11:24 »

Start one up!

Jocelyn · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 08:25:19 »

Quote from: esoomenona on Thu, 14 March 2013, 05:18:37

I would assume it is possible, but the MOQ is really high. IIRC, imsto's is like 16,000, and if that's considering each cap in a set, that's at least 152 sets. I'm not even certain that lysol's GB made that many.

I realize they offered a few varieties, but I'm pretty sure they hit over 250 sets. I wonder if MOQ needs to be that high with no printing.

Quote from: esoomenona on Thu, 14 March 2013, 08:11:24

Start one up!

Going to wait until the weekend and maybe ask WFD to start the thread lol. He's also been wanting something like this forever.

esoomenona · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 08:30:13 »

Actually, that sounds about right. But I do remember he didn't hit the MOQ that was requested, but they went forward anyway.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 11:18:34 »

My last buy for PBT dyesub end at 285 set. Getting other key colors is something I have talked with imsto about. I was thinking charcoal grey (as it is still light enough to dyesub on if one wants unlike black black) would be something I wanted to tackle for round 3 but if someone want to step that up please feel free. Seems most colors have 300 set MOQ, it takes some pushing but it is possible to get there or close enough that they will bend a little. The MOQ is for the keycap sets only, the printing is done as secondary process so it is irrelevant.

dante · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 11:50:59 »

I don't know why its so difficult to get blank versions of production sets. Feng bought an asston of kbc blank blacks (maybe 100 sets out of pocket?) and it's been about a year and he still hasn't sold 50% of his stock yet.

The demand is out there its just not very large. For whatever reason when Feng asked KBC why they couldn't take a couple dozen sets out of production before they were engraved the factory told him "OMG! That would be so much work! And we would need to harness the energy from a Tardis, involve some Borg...etc You need to buy ###"

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 13:06:34 »

I agree that sounds like some bullshizz excuse to just make one buy more. We know they use different machines for each process, and it have to be loaded for printing/engraving after the single injection molding. That is not all done at once. I am sure it would just be a simple matter of setting aside XX amount of sets after they come out of injection molding process, before they are set up for legend run. If that transition is all automated that is some pretty advanced stuff and I would be highly surprised if that is the case.

lazerpointer · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 14 March 2013, 14:27:01 »

Quote from: dante on Thu, 14 March 2013, 11:50:59

I don't know why its so difficult to get blank versions of production sets. Feng bought an asston of kbc blank blacks (maybe 100 sets out of pocket?) and it's been about a year and he still hasn't sold 50% of his stock yet.

The demand is out there its just not very large. For whatever reason when Feng asked KBC why they couldn't take a couple dozen sets out of production before they were engraved the factory told him "OMG! That would be so much work! And we would need to harness the energy from a Tardis, involve some Borg...etc You need to buy ###"

Agreed.

Just think about the Vortex Dyesub group buy. You KNOW if those were blank, they would be double the price. Just goes to show the mentality of consumerism.... If it's blank, it's cool, therefore it should cost more. Even when the bomb cost HAS to be lower.

Edit;
a group buy of keys like the HHKB but on Cherry profile, for Cherry boards? That would interest lots, for sure.

Jocelyn · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 00:47:01 »

Quote from: Flip on Thu, 14 March 2013, 14:27:01

Quote from: dante on Thu, 14 March 2013, 11:50:59
I don't know why its so difficult to get blank versions of production sets. Feng bought an asston of kbc blank blacks (maybe 100 sets out of pocket?) and it's been about a year and he still hasn't sold 50% of his stock yet.

The demand is out there its just not very large. For whatever reason when Feng asked KBC why they couldn't take a couple dozen sets out of production before they were engraved the factory told him "OMG! That would be so much work! And we would need to harness the energy from a Tardis, involve some Borg...etc You need to buy ###"

Agreed.

Just think about the Vortex Dyesub group buy. You KNOW if those were blank, they would be double the price. Just goes to show the mentality of consumerism.... If it's blank, it's cool, therefore it should cost more. Even when the bomb cost HAS to be lower.

Edit;
a group buy of keys like the HHKB but on Cherry profile, for Cherry boards? That would interest lots, for sure.

I agree with Dante as well, but I'm confused about your blanks being more expensive bit. That doesn't make any sense to me and it's not really about coolness, but rather making your board look "clean". I seriously doubt they would have cost more if Feng (Vortex) offered blanks considering the white were cheaper than colored sets and blanks are always cheaper than caps with legends. For Lysol's GB, blanks were $50+ shipping, while caps with legends were $75 + shipping. Also Imsto blanks via Feng are $70 and caps with legends are $90, so I have no idea where this notion that "blanks would cost double" is coming from. Please show me an example of blanks being "double the price".

We need HHKB lookalike caps like the photo I posted (dark gray), Cherry profile thick PBT from Imsto with black Cherry legends offered in the same variations Lysol offered in his last GB.

cobraj · « **Reply #19 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 00:58:06 »

Quote from: Jocelyn on Sat, 16 March 2013, 00:47:01

Quote from: Flip on Thu, 14 March 2013, 14:27:01
Quote from: dante on Thu, 14 March 2013, 11:50:59
I don't know why its so difficult to get blank versions of production sets. Feng bought an asston of kbc blank blacks (maybe 100 sets out of pocket?) and it's been about a year and he still hasn't sold 50% of his stock yet.

The demand is out there its just not very large. For whatever reason when Feng asked KBC why they couldn't take a couple dozen sets out of production before they were engraved the factory told him "OMG! That would be so much work! And we would need to harness the energy from a Tardis, involve some Borg...etc You need to buy ###"

Agreed.

Just think about the Vortex Dyesub group buy. You KNOW if those were blank, they would be double the price. Just goes to show the mentality of consumerism.... If it's blank, it's cool, therefore it should cost more. Even when the bomb cost HAS to be lower.

Edit;
a group buy of keys like the HHKB but on Cherry profile, for Cherry boards? That would interest lots, for sure.

I agree with Dante as well, but I'm confused about your blanks being more expensive bit. That doesn't make any sense to me and it's not really about coolness, but rather making your board look "clean". I seriously doubt they would have cost more if Feng (Vortex) offered blanks considering the white were cheaper than colored sets and blanks are always cheaper than caps with legends. For Lysol's GB, blanks were $50+ shipping, while caps with legends were $75 + shipping. Also Imsto blanks via Feng are $70 and caps with legends are $90, so I have no idea where this notion that "blanks would cost double" is coming from. Please show me an example of blanks being "double the price".

We need HHKB lookalike caps like the photo I posted (dark gray), Cherry profile thick PBT from Imsto with black Cherry legends offered in the same variations Lysol offered in his last GB.

Yeah I agree. Don't see why it would cost more to produce something with a lot less effort.
I also wouldn't mind engraved.
Just anything where I can't see the legends

lazerpointer · « **Reply #20 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 01:37:37 »

I guess I was just surprised that these vortex were so cheap, like 37 dollars for a set. My bad if I sounded negative

Jocelyn · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 01:48:51 »

It's okay Flip

I just disagreed with the notion of blanks costing more. I was also rather surprised about the sets being priced so well, but ugh about that font.

tjcaustin · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:17:32 »

I bet I could organize a pbt blank buy through SP easy enough. Not in the immediate future, but I wouldn't mind running it in tandem with CCnO or whatev.

cobraj · « **Reply #23 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:24:12 »

Quote from: tjcaustin on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:17:32

I bet I could organize a pbt blank buy through SP easy enough. Not in the immediate future, but I wouldn't mind running it in tandem with CCnO or whatev.

Oooo. Awesome!
Thick pbt please? <3

Jocelyn · « **Reply #24 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:26:33 »

Quote from: cobraj on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:24:12

Quote from: tjcaustin on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:17:32
I bet I could organize a pbt blank buy through SP easy enough. Not in the immediate future, but I wouldn't mind running it in tandem with CCnO or whatev.

Oooo. Awesome!
Thick pbt please? <3

Does SP PBT match cherry profile? My guess is no
Will it be thick? Again, I don't know but I have my doubts and I'm not interested in anything from SP unless it meets both of these criteria

tjcaustin · « **Reply #25 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:30:18 »

Quote from: Jocelyn on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:26:33

Quote from: cobraj on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:24:12
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:17:32
I bet I could organize a pbt blank buy through SP easy enough. Not in the immediate future, but I wouldn't mind running it in tandem with CCnO or whatev.

Oooo. Awesome!
Thick pbt please? <3

Will SP PBT match cherry profile? My guess is no
Will it be thick? Again, I don't know but I have my doubts and I'm not interested in anything from SP unless it meets both of these criteria

I'm fairly sure that DCS is cherry or at least as close as we'll get without going to GMK. And while GMK is thick, I think it's ABS only, too.
It'd be whatever PBT SP does, but that's the goal.

Jocelyn · « **Reply #26 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:37:26 »

Quote from: tjcaustin on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:30:18

I'm fairly sure that DCS is cherry or at least as close as we'll get without going to GMK. And while GMK is thick, I think it's ABS only, too.
It'd be whatever PBT SP does, but that's the goal.

It's pretty close, and this photo doesn't take stem height into account, but I need exact and this is not exact. I do appreciate you potentially doing a GB for this, but I'm personally not interested.

(Cherry Black vs SP WYSE) Thanks for the photo biochem

tjcaustin · « **Reply #27 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:43:17 »

Quote from: Jocelyn on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:37:26

Quote from: tjcaustin on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:30:18
I'm fairly sure that DCS is cherry or at least as close as we'll get without going to GMK. And while GMK is thick, I think it's ABS only, too.
It'd be whatever PBT SP does, but that's the goal.

It's pretty close, and this photo doesn't take stem height into account, but I need exact and this is not exact. I do appreciate you potentially doing a GB for this, but I'm personally not interested.

(Cherry Black vs SP WYSE)
Show Image

NO ONE CAN EVER PLEASE YOU, JOCELYN. KING KLAXON DEMANDS SACRIFICE FROM HIS ORDER GIVING MINIONS. (I also can't see a difference in that picture and I've only typed on one set of true cherry caps and didn't notice a difference. That's not to discount there being one, I'm just rambling now)

Like I said in the after klaxon thread, I've tried to get communication going with GMK and I'll see from there. I don't see any mention of PBT and I don't remember hearing about it in the early furor of discovering they exist, but the worst that will happen is they'll tell me no when I ask.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #28 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 11:08:21 »

No GMK does not offer PBT though they mentioned they may look into it in the future, for PBT Cherry you want to contact imsto or BSP instead. BSP is more expensive an far less flexible it seems, but they do have 1.5 mods unlike imsto's Asia source. I still wish could find out which factory make the 1.5 Cherry profile keys for Choc mini as they would likely be far cheaper. Maybe a Chinese speaker could make more progress?

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 11:40:44 »

Quote from: tjcaustin on Sat, 16 March 2013, 02:30:18

I'm fairly sure that DCS is cherry or at least as close as we'll get without going to GMK. And while GMK is thick, I think it's ABS only, too.
It'd be whatever PBT SP does, but that's the goal.

SP does offer PBT blanks, profile is nearly the same as Cherry, but not exact. The biggest difference is in the spacebar though. SP has the "sharpest" spacebar that I know, and I don't think they make PBT spacebars. This could be a problem if you want both the spacebar and keyset to match colors. The SP PBT set I have were also very stiff to install and take off the switch. Thickness is pretty the same as their standard doubleshots.

Ragnarock bought several thousand PBT caps from SP to dyesub for his store, so maybe ask him to confirm all this.

tjcaustin · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 12:25:04 »

Well, there we have it, then.

esoomenona · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 15:11:45 »

Cherry G80-3000LPCXY-2 has blank black POM caps. I see they're available on keyboardco.com.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #32 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 15:22:07 »

That could be another thought. KBC had those POM 'jellies' maybe we could get them to do black.

esoomenona · « **Reply #33 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 15:25:53 »

Mhm, mhm. Ideas.

dante · « **Reply #34 on:** Sat, 16 March 2013, 17:33:58 »

I've been working with someone in China in getting some black POM keycaps made but the first sample ended being f'ed up (I didn't get more details than that) so it will be another month before another sample set is made.

cobraj · « **Reply #35 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 01:28:05 »

O.o

Did not realise how complicated Group Buys were :O

Respect to the people that run them

But yeah. I just always assumed it would be pretty easy to get cherry + black thick PBT haha.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #36 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 11:32:33 »

imsto can get black blank POM Cherry profile but only 37 set, preliminary price is $30. I might include this an an option then with the next buy I do.

Jocelyn · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 11:39:59 »

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 17 March 2013, 11:32:33

imsto can get black blank POM Cherry profile but only 37 set, preliminary price is $30. I might include this an an option then with the next buy I do.

Thanks for checking, but I wanted something like this for mods

PS - I do really appreciate your time spent looking into things, despite how some of my replies might come off

dante · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 12:13:36 »

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 17 March 2013, 11:32:33

imsto can get black blank POM Cherry profile but only 37 set, preliminary price is $30. I might include this an an option then with the next buy I do.

That's funny - Imsto was the guy I was going through - but was going to be for sets of 104. The original contact was setup through Noppoo so i don't know who is making the sets of 37 - Keycool maybe?

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 12:41:43 »

Hmn... through Noppoo for Cherry profile... so 1.5 should be available if they have that source since Choc mini use 1.5. I have no idea where the 37 set would be from, they didn't say.

Loligagger · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 13:38:03 »

Are there any thick/blank/cherry profile pbt caps that would work on a kbt pure layout? Closest I could find would be to use one of the caps lock keys from imsto's set and just deal with the wrong row profile.

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #41 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 18:42:54 »

No not really... unless you can find one of the unicorn G80-1865LXNXY. Maybe one of the old MX typewriters... Sandblasting off the legend from Cherry lasered 1800 set would be more sane.

Loligagger · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 19:20:50 »

Those use thick POM caps right? It's too bad the selection of thick blank PBTs is so limited. Anyway, there any chance you could include a 1.75 right shift in round two of your cherry thick groupbuy (after the GMK mods groupbuy is done)?

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #43 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 19:37:54 »

Cherry use POM for black keys, PBT for light colors. I will ask imsto about it again. Last time they told me the factory did not have the molds for any of the additional keys I wanted to include, perhaps this situation has changed if they located keycap factory used by Noppoo for Choc mini.

dante · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun, 17 March 2013, 20:08:38 »

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 17 March 2013, 19:37:54

Cherry use POM for black keys, PBT for light colors. I will ask imsto about it again. Last time they told me the factory did not have the molds for any of the additional keys I wanted to include, perhaps this situation has changed if they located keycap factory used by Noppoo for Choc mini.

The Noppoo Choc Pro RF is/was a limited edition fullsize board with side printed POM. This is where my questions to Imsto all began.

News:

Author Topic: Black Blanks (Read 6724 times)