Author Topic: CMoy Amplifier  (Read 43980 times)

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Offline CPTBadAss

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CMoy Amplifier
« on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 21:52:09 »
At the Chicago/Great Lakes Meetup, Tipo33 and I started talking about high end audio equipment. I had brought my Grado SR80s and Tipo33 had his SR60s. Someone else also brought some form of Sennheisers but they were closed back, sounded mediocore, and were humungous when I put them on my head. Not my favorite.
Anyways, Tipo and I then started to talk about amps and other related Hi-Fi equipment and then found out he forgot to bring his CMoy. So like the great guy he is, he sent me the amp to try out. And as promised Ski, here’s your review.


Top of the CMoy amp, closed


Bottom of the CMoy amp, closed

A CMoy Amp was designed by Chu Moy, a member of the Headwize Community. It was supposed to be test for his Opamp headphone amplifier but turned out to be a great DIY amp. It is low cost compared to many other amps on the market and made a huge difference in sound quality. According to Warren Young, a CMoy and DIY amp enthusiast, you can source the parts for the amp for around $20. You can also get different Opamps and customize the board more. I’ve seen a lot of discussion on Head-Fi about that. It’s also portable because of its size and you can mod it to have different LEDs, have a rechargeable battery, plug into the wall, and customize the Opamp.


CMoy opened up, that proto-board is so cute!


TABLE OF CONTENTS


Setup
At home, I have an Omega Striker 7.1 soundcard in my rig, Grado SR80s, and the CMoy. And just to test it out even further, I brought the CMoy to work where I use Skullcandy Titan earbuds and the work computer. The bass boost was kept on for most of the time; I tried it for ten minutes without the bass boost and the sound sounded lacking so I flipped it back on. And because I didn’t have the wall plugin, the CMoy was powered by 9V batteries.

I then tried it in the following configurations:
  • With no sound card and no amp
  • Just the CMoy amp
  • Just the soundcard
  • Both the CMoy amp and the soundcard
  • Listening to the setup with SkullCandys


Playlist
I typically only listen to metal and hardcore but I wanted to spread the music selection across a wider range to fully appreciate the amp. Even though I listed songs from YouTube, I used Spotify or SoundCloud to listen to the music. I also listened to To the Wind’s Empty Eyes CD (I got a pre-release copy when I saw them with the Greenery on 4/29/13.) Anyways here’s some of the songs I picked out. And shoutouts to Dubsgalore who introduced me to Archie V; now I can’t stop dancing.

Archie V - Rosa
More

Archie V – Alive Remix
More

Backtrack – Too Close
More

Cancer Bats – Hail Destroyer
More

Dipset – More Than Music
More

Wu Tang Clan – Gravel Pit
More


Aesthetics
This thing is in an Altoids box!! It’s so ****ing cool. I can’t even handle it. Since it is a tin box the enclosure is pretty solid. The only thing I don’t like is that the latch seems to be wearing or could wear after much usage and easily flip open. A bit of tape might solve this but I’m sure that’s just a minor detail.

The cutouts in the case are solid. I can turn the volume dial with one hand without supporting it with my other hand. And the jacks for the wires are way stronger than I thought. They also anchor the little proto-board in so that it doesn’t move around too much. Tipo also has tape on the bottom side, I believe, which helps to anchor it in. If I flip it upside down with the top open, nothing falls out.


Battery Life
According to this link at Head-Fi, one non-rechargeable 9V battery should last around fifty-five hours. I’d say this is pretty accurate. The battery that was in the amp originally lasted for about four hours, but it burned out since I accidently left it on overnight while I slept. I also think that the cold weather drained some of the life from the battery as well as Tipo33’s previous usages. The next battery lasted from 4/20/13 until 4/30/13. I’d say I listen to music about five hours a day, between work and home, so the numbers work out.

Edit: The FAQ on JDS Labs' site confirms the battery time and shows a formula that will calculate the battery life.

When I listen with the CMoy I try to always turn it off if someone comes to my desk or if I’m not listening to it. Disposable 9V batteries are a bit pricey and I’d like to try and prolong them as much as I can. It cost me $7 at Radio Shack to buy two of them. And I was in a rush to pick some up the battery died on 4/20 and I really wanted to get in on the 4Grabs buy.


Sound Quality
1) The Grados have a nice neutral sound with an open back so you can hear your surroundings. The bass is actually present and not just a “lower note” when I listen to music. That being said, it’s not that deep but it does exist. Upper end sounds clear and almost reminds me of being at a concert since I can hear the music and other things around me.

2) With just the CMoy amp and my Gradoes, I instantly realized what people meant when they said that the 80s have really nice bass. You feel it when there’s low end. Listen to Rosa and try not to dance. Try it. It reduces me to this. The higher end is also very crisp and the open backs make the soundstage such that I can listen to music but hear everything around me. And it just makes the music more realistic for me. Like I’m actually at a venue/concert listening to something. The high end is clear and notes don’t get lost when there are solos or intricate guitar parts going on. If I listen to music in my SkullCandy buds, the sounds almost get meshed and entwined together. Or certain notes get lost in the mix because I swear listening to my Grados made me rediscover my entire library again.

3) As I said above, the soundcard is an Omega Striker 7.1 that I bought for pretty cheap off Binge. After struggling for hours to get the driver to work, I discovered that it really boosts the higher end and makes it a lot cleaner and clearer. However, the bass is still lacking.

4) I know everyone in the CMoy discussion thread told me not to do this but I hooked up my soundcard to the front panel headphone jack and then into my CMoy and then into my Grados. I was told to keep it ”line level” but I didn’t think the sound was too bad when I ran it from the front panel. In fact, I felt like this produced the best sound quality. The bass was deep and the upper end was clean. I think the first two days I had the amp/soundcard/Grado setup, I never took anything off. I just listened to music for what seemed like fourty-eight hours straight :D. I seriously don’t think I’ve had such a good setup before and I can easily see myself falling into the rabbit hole/wallethack that is high end audio.

5) The SkullCandys? Well let’s just say they play music and fit in my ears. Plus they were cheap. I won’t be bummed if I ever lose them or anything. When I listen to music with bass in it, it registers as a low note and not as a frequency that I feel. Disappointing honestly. But even these lackluster buds can be improved with the CMoy and that really surprised me. The bass was nice but the high-end was still muddled. Oh well.

Final Thoughts
I need one of these in my life as soon as possible. They make all of my listening experiences way better. Deep bass, clean high ends, and overall fuller richer sound make this a must have for me. If you’d like to order the parts yourself, you can source most of it from RadioShack as I said above. Otherwise, JDS Labs sells kits which has everything you’ll need but the mint tin. If you want to see what other GHers have to say about the amp, check this link out

Oh and everyone go say something nice to Tipo33 since he’s leaving us for Italy. Cheers brother, hope to continue seeing you on GeekHack!

Other Random Pictures:

LED and Wall Plugin Port


Volume Knob, Audio in and out ports, takes a 1/8” plug


Grado SR80i’s
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 May 2013, 15:34:13 by CPTBadAss »

Offline moonprismpwr

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 21:54:39 »
Very nice review :) A pretty awesome product that uses an altoid box? Convinced me

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 22:00:50 »
Thanks moonprismsis! And you can also use Penguin Mints tins which are really cute. ^__^

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 22:04:22 »
Thanks for the Shoutout Bro

I hope more people here discover EDM

Making this on my own would be really cool!

Offline tipo33

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 22:10:37 »
I'm glad you enjoyed the amp, and don't worry, I will be hanging around GH for quite some time to come.  Especially since you've volunteered yourself as my proxy :p
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 22:12:55 »
That better not be the only reason you stick around!  ;)

Offline tipo33

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 22:14:09 »
That better not be the only reason you stick around!  ;)
It won't, you know that :D
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Offline SmallFry

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 22:57:16 »
What OPAmp is in your CMOY Ski? Mine sounds a bit meh with the current one.

Offline tipo33

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 23:10:03 »
What OPAmp is in your CMOY Ski? Mine sounds a bit meh with the current one.
OPA2227P   what do you have?
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Offline Halverson

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 23:12:13 »
Time to make me one of these :) Thanks mein kapitan!

Offline demik

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 07 May 2013, 23:44:34 »
WUUUUUUUUUU TAAAAANNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 05:52:41 »
What OPAmp is in your CMOY Ski? Mine sounds a bit meh with the current one.

Make sure you update us on the new OPAmp you decide on SmallFry. I'd like to know for when I buy mine.

Time to make me one of these :) Thanks mein kapitan!

You're welcome, thanks for reading ^__^

WUUUUUUUUUU TAAAAANNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

Wu Tang again? Aww yeah, again and again :P

Offline Melvang

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 07:53:45 »
Haven't read the entire review but that has to be one of the coolest pieces of audio gear I have ever seen.
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Offline SmallFry

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 08:37:17 »
I presume that I run the "stock" one in their BOM, though I forgot to check. I presume that I use the Texas Instruments OPA2227PA. I don't like it too well, but it works. :P

Offline esoomenona

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 08:37:26 »
The whole set-up lasts only ~55 hours?

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 08:39:55 »
The whole set-up lasts only ~55 hours?

One non-rechargeable 9V battery will last for 55 hours.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 08:43:41 »
OH! Okay. I was thinking, "Man, this doesn't sound like a reasonable thing at all!" Thanks!

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 08:45:10 »
Updated the OP to make that a little clearer. Thanks moose ^__^

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:22:31 »
Here is some old school info on these....

http://tangentsoft.net/audio/cmoy-tutorial/

Back in the day....like a little over 10 years ago... tangent built these and I actually purchased a penguin tin cmoy amp (it was called the bumblebee) from him and how I wish I would have kept all of that gear....
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:27:35 by ray4jc »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:27:16 »
Ray4jc, I have a few links to that site in my writeup. But thanks for sharing it anyways ^__^

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:28:21 »
Ray4jc, I have a few links to that site in my writeup. But thanks for sharing it anyways ^__^

Sorry I got excited....I have got to learn to read  :-[

Offline Photekq

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:36:47 »
Thanks for the review CPT and thanks tibro33 for lending the amp.

How is the low end bass on songs where it's supposed to be prominent? This would be an example : Bladerunner - Back To The Jungle

The bassline should be almost as prominent as the drum loop and I'm curious as to how the amp & grados performs. In the past I have only been disappointed by the low end bass in headphones and I'm wondering whether a CMOY & grados might be the way to go.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 May 2013, 14:57:05 by Photekq »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 08 May 2013, 14:55:49 »
I'll test it in a little bit when I'm home and let you know.

Edit: It's not on the same level but it's definitely there. Like the bass doesn't overpower the drum loop but you definitely hear it. I can feel it and it's pretty cool ^__^
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 May 2013, 19:15:46 by CPTBadAss »

Offline Yslen

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 09 May 2013, 14:47:04 »
Have you tried a 12V power adapter? They recommend one, I can't remember which. Changes the sound somewhat, clarity seems to increase significantly when I swap between 9V battery and 12V mains. Also means I don't have to worry about battery life! Worth looking into if you haven't already.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 09 May 2013, 15:22:57 »
I have not but I've been talking to SmallFry about getting away from batteries and using different sources of power. Would I need to worry about too much voltage going into the amp if I use a 12V plugin?

Offline Yslen

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 05:51:09 »
Should be fine if you stick to the recommended model. Its on their website somewhere, can't remember what the US one was!

It is designed to use 12v, unless its changed since I got mine.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 05:57:18 »
When I get/build my own, I'll try it out. In the meantime, I'll ask SmallFry if he can try it out.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 09:17:15 »
I'll look into it.

Offline Glissant

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 11:07:52 »
Another excellent review, CPTBadAss :D. Why do you always have to write about stuff so I want to get what you are writing about?
One day I will own this. Hopefully one that I put together myself =D. But first I imagine I have to invest in something better than my Shure SE315 in-ears to run off of this thing.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 10 May 2013, 12:33:36 »
Thanks ^__^  I'm just trying to live up to the WalletHack name Glissbro :P. If you want more headphone/earbud info, there's a Headphones thread up and I always advocate for Grados. :D Hopefully you'll be able to upgrade something great soon and I want to see your build log of the CMoy!

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:31:26 »
Damn, them some nice Grado's! Nice little amp too.  :)







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Offline SmallFry

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:32:51 »
Aha! A browndog adapter! :P Why did you choose that opamp over others?

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:36:54 »
Back up, can we explain to me what I'm looking at Lunartuna?

Offline SmallFry

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:40:21 »
The CMOY is not limited to JDS labs, there are multiple makers of CMOY PCBS.

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:41:04 »
Aha! A browndog adapter! :P Why did you choose that opamp over others?

Honestly I bought it so long ago I don't remember. I'm guessing the maker said it would be best for the kinds of music I was listening to back then, mainly metal.

Back up, can we explain to me what I'm looking at Lunartuna?

Haha! That's a Go-Vibe V4 head-phone amp, I think only around 100 were made. This guy on Head-Fi was making them just for fun about 7 years ago before he moved on to bigger things. Good luck finding one now!  :p
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Offline Lunartuna

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:42:47 »
Crazy, did some googling. Looks like there is a go-vibe company making amps.. wonder if its the same guy or if he sold the idea?
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:45:13 »
The CMOY is not limited to JDS labs, there are multiple makers of CMOY PCBS.

But that's not what I was asking. What is a browndog adapter? A different type of OPAmp?

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:47:23 »
Oh that.

It allows you to swap out op-amps without soldering.

http://cimarrontechnology.com/
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:49:34 by Lunartuna »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:48:06 »
Right, I found that link as well but I can't identify electronic components on sight and understand what they do yet :(

Thanks for clearing that up :D

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:50:31 »
Right, I found that link as well but I can't identify electronic components on sight and understand what they do yet :(

Thanks for clearing that up :D

Yeah I really have no idea which one it would be on that webpage either lol. I just use the thing!
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Offline SmallFry

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:54:40 »
Some OPAmps do not come in a DIP format, thus you need to use an adapter to allow use of them. These adapters are called Browndog adapters.

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 09:59:01 »
Some OPAmps do not come in a DIP format, thus you need to use an adapter to allow use of them. These adapters are called Browndog adapters.

The person is smarter that me. Listen to his explanation over mine lol!
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Offline SmallFry

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 11 May 2013, 10:02:55 »
I also see on the site that you posted that you can hook up two OPAmps into the same adapter. Interesting concept, I'd be interested to see how the sound quality differs.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 12 May 2013, 23:00:42 »
I've seen lots of keyboards with headphone jacks....wonder if a CMoy could be built into a keyboard?? I know....its late and I'm probably sleep typing again  ???

Offline PointyFox

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 12 May 2013, 23:22:07 »
Stopped reading after Grado was called "high end".  I saw some pics of CMoy amps though.  I don't think anyone really needs these unless they're driving something with low sensitivity with something with low output.  Like planar magnetic headphones with a junky MP3 player.
« Last Edit: Sun, 12 May 2013, 23:25:39 by PointyFox »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 18:49:02 »
Sorry I'm not a audiophilie. The Grados are my first pair of nice headphones and the first time I used an amp. For me, it's high end and I thought that's what I read about. I have no idea what low sensitivity and low output means. Care to explain?

Offline dndlmx

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 19:00:56 »
Stopped reading after Grado was called "high end".

Grado / Alessandro have some fancy models, maybe not like HD800 expensive. But still...what's wrong with Grado?
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 May 2013, 19:02:55 by dnix »

Offline Lunartuna

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 19:57:43 »
Grado makes great headphones...
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 21:09:15 »
Grado are well known for their terrible price to performance ratio after the SR80s.  The more expensive Grados just use fancier materials but the same design. 
Drawbacks to the Grado design are uncomfortable supra-aural form (sits on the ear, instead of around the ear), hard painful bowl ear cushions for their higher end models, and earcups that swivel freely and twist up the cables.
They also lack soundstage (3D sound positioning), bass impact, and are slightly sibilant.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: CMoy Amplifier
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 21:12:12 »
But I have the 80s? And I think they're comfortable and I like the soundstage? Sorry we have different opinions but I'm not sure your opinion is justified by saying "are well known" and acting like you're some high-flung audiophile. I'll agree to disagree. ^__^