If you could have one buckling spring keyboard...

[vivalarevolución]

...What would it be?  Please explain.  Looking for suggestions.

[Sifo]

kishsaver.



Great layout (size), good feeling switches from an F.

[morpheus]

I'm still waiting for Unicomp to make their TKL....

[CPTBadAss]

If I could find one, a kishsaver. AT F boards feel amazing but the layout makes me a sad panda.

I'm also completely in love with my SSK.

[fohat.digs]

The Model F is far and away the best.

I need a numpad, so the mini-models do not hold much interest to me.

Here is something approximating an ANSI layout:

[1391406]

I'm starting to get used to the AT F layout. It's a small price to pay for such a great feeling board.

[dorkvader]

guys: the kishsaver is not currently usable on a modern computer.

Of the BS keyboards I have, my preference would be a 104-key "space unsaver" model F with a replacement controller so I can actually use it. I have a quote on an APL version, but it's too much for me without a working controller.

Looking up model numbers, it looks like a capacitive BS tenkey existed at some point, but I haven't been able to find any pictures. All I have are out-of-date stock list on an old website and a brief mention in a PDF manual I found once. Still, I want it as a companion to the aforementioned unsaver.
---

That aside, I'm still looking for a mat so I can make my 122 F-ANSI usable.

[mashby]

Doesn't exist, but my dream keyboard would be a Model F 60% with floss mod and lightened spacebar.

[fohat.digs]

That aside, I'm still looking for a mat so I can make my 122 F-ANSI usable.

If you are talking about a foam barrel plate mat, my guide shows a pretty easy way to make one.

If you don't have a 5/8" hole punch, you can sharpen the end of a metal pipe and it works pretty well.

[dorkvader]

Doesn't exist, but my dream keyboard would be a Model F 60% with floss mod and lightened spacebar.

do you mean having a spacebar lighter than the normal keys, or lighter than the heavy PC/XT/AT/C model F keyboards?

Also, 60% F's exist, see the kishsaver images above. They are sort-of unavailable now, though.

[rootwyrm]

122 F in ANSI with an updated PSoC controller and custom firmware / layout capability with arbitrary scancodes. Other than the controller? Wouldn't change a damn thing.
Well okay. I'd use the 1988 M springs. I just like those better.

Yes, I want my damn F13-F24 working and my media keys.

[mashby]

do you mean having a spacebar lighter than the normal keys, or lighter than the heavy PC/XT/AT/C model F keyboards?

The default spacebar on the F is pretty stiff, so I'd lighten it just a little bit.

Also, 60% F's exist, see the kishsaver images above. They are sort-of unavailable now, though.

The bees are on the what now?



What is this kishsaver you're referring to? I saw the photo above, but I didn't know that was a real thing.

Links, photos, blueprints, teleport?!?

[The_Beast]

Model F switches with a model M layout but 60% format instead of TKL or fullsized

[davkol]

M15, 'nuff said.

[vivalarevolución]

M15, 'nuff said.

I've heard that the M15 does not feel as solid as your typical Model M. Could you confirm or deny that assertion?   Actually have you ever typed on the M15?

[poxeclipse]

kishsaver.

Show Image

Great layout (size), good feeling switches from an F.

Do you have one ?

[mashby]

Model F switches with a model M layout but 60% format instead of TKL or fullsized

This was someone's custom project I take it? Anyone have a link to it?

[Halverson]

kishsaver.

Show Image

Great layout (size), good feeling switches from an F.

Do you have one ?

Sifo does not. He has no buckling springs at all actually.

[The_Beast]

Model F switches with a model M layout but 60% format instead of TKL or fullsized

This was someone's custom project I take it? Anyone have a link to it?

I wish! I thought this thread was about the prefect BS board


I will be modding a fullsized M to a 60% sometime soon

[CPTBadAss]

Model F switches with a model M layout but 60% format instead of TKL or fullsized

This was someone's custom project I take it? Anyone have a link to it?

I've been trying to find out the origins of the Kishsaver for a long time. I didn't even get a proper picture of it until recently. And it's the same picture that Sifo has in his post. The old picture I had was either 10 pixel by 10 pixel "picture" that Kishy teased me with in IRC or this picture from his site. It's a Model F in 60%. But I'm not sure how Kishy made it or what model numbers he used to do so. Kishy did tell me that at one point, a company was distributing/selling the Kishsaver but that company has gone out of business. I know a few members in the IRC or on Deskthority have one. Soarer has a post where he's converting the Kishsaver to a Teensy. SmallFry has said that there is still one source to get a Kishsaver from but I believe it is a member on Deskthority who is not very active. I'm not even sure if that source still has any left. And if you want one, you'll have to get in line behind me because I've been asking for info/hunting for info for MONTHS.

guys: the kishsaver is not currently usable on a modern computer.

Looking up model numbers, it looks like a capacitive BS tenkey existed at some point, but I haven't been able to find any pictures. All I have are out-of-date stock list on an old website and a brief mention in a PDF manual I found once. Still, I want it as a companion to the aforementioned unsaver.

If you could share with us this capacitive BS TenKeyLess board model number, I'd be super grateful. And is there a reason why the Kishsaver can't be used on a modern computer. I thought Soarer's Teensy mod made it so it could be used.

[AKIMbO]

Oh man....it would have to be a tkl model F that's been floss modded. 

[mashby]

Thank you CPT! I was just about to e-mail him, but no sense bugging him since you've already done all the leg work. Nice job.

[CPTBadAss]

Thank you CPT! I was just about to e-mail him, but no sense bugging him since you've already done all the leg work. Nice job.

Thanks! If I ever get any more information about it, I'll let you know 

[hasu]

60% Model F. I dont mind whether it is moded or original, since I'm not a IBM collector.

IIRC, clickclack's mini micro was prittier than Kishsaver, personal preference though.
Unfortunately its pictures were lost in the last site system incident.
I don't know mini micro switch is capacitive F or membrane M,  to be honest,  not even sure it  is real or fake...

[CPTBadAss]

Hasu, I've never even HEARD of the micro mini. Now I must do more hunting for info

[damorgue]

Hasu, I've never even HEARD of the micro mini. Now I must do more hunting for info

cc's
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=10347.0

hasu's
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=29483

[CPTBadAss]

Thanks damorgue, I was *LITERALLY* about to post that Hasu thread haha. But I appreciate the info hunting

[inteli722]

Space Unsaver with F switches or a Space Saver with F switches, given how much more adored the capacitive F switches are than the Membrane M switches.

[fohat.digs]

IBM Model F in the exact configuration of a dead-stock Model M.

Or maybe in the slightly smaller footprint (whatever Unicomp calls it, their names never make sense) in black with native USB but standard PBT keys.

[snoopy]

That kishsaver looks very interesting!

I remember seeing that pics from ccs mini-micro long time ago. But sadly I didn't save the pictures. Maybe he reads this and posts some new pics?

If I could have one buckling spring keyboard.... I would keep my fake-industrial ssk.

[kishy]

Kishsaver was a nick applied to that particular (IBM-manufactured!) very infrequently found keyboard, by a couple folks in IRC.

I have a webpage written about it which I've been putting the finishing touches on for...well over a year...gotta get some things together and I'll be disclosing that before 2014.

Because if I don't set a due date for the reveal now, it'll never happen.

[mashby]

And so the F5 frenzy begins! 

[dorkvader]

That kishsaver looks very interesting!

I remember seeing that pics from ccs mini-micro long time ago. But sadly I didn't save the pictures. Maybe he reads this and posts some new pics?

If I could have one buckling spring keyboard.... I would keep my fake-industrial ssk.

I think Kishy has a few pictures of it saved on his site somewhere.

Even better about the kishsaver: they have metal cases. Unfortunately, all the sources have dried up thus far.

[mashby]

[mashby]

Is it just me, or does this Apple 1 look awfully similar to the Kishsaver?

[ikoma]

I'm in love with my Model M2. It isn't as heavy and durable as the Model M but it's still a nice board.

[dorkvader]

Is it just me, or does this Apple 1 look awfully similar to the Kishsaver?

Show Image

Cool I didn't know that the apple 1 used hall effect switches. That's some quality there.

Anyways, there are tons of small microswitch keyboards. I have two that are roughly 60 keys.

[0100010]

What I want is a custom plate BS board with every key hard wired (aka 'lowpoly' method).  Would either need Model F barrels or cut each barrel of a Model M out.  Then fabricate a plate that could secure each barrel where desired.

Hard part is that I want to convert each BS key assembly into an electrical switch, where the spring itself is half of the circuit - with a metal strip along the length of the barrel for the other half.  Difficult enough to design initially, even more fun to rebuild reliably 100+ times.

[dorkvader]

What I want is a custom plate BS board with every key hard wired (aka 'lowpoly' method).  Would either need Model F barrels or cut each barrel of a Model M out.  Then fabricate a plate that could secure each barrel where desired.

Hard part is that I want to convert each BS key assembly into an electrical switch, where the spring itself is half of the circuit - with a metal strip along the length of the barrel for the other half.  Difficult enough to design initially, even more fun to rebuild reliably 100+ times.

Interesting! most options of having (say) a pcb to accept the switching, but having a metal hammer and a metal strip would likely last longer (I imagine copper pads on a PCB would delaminate quickly) but you will sadly have the same long debounce times as many other mechanical keyswitches. Better to have it made capacitive.

[ch_123]

M15, 'nuff said.

I've heard that the M15 does not feel as solid as your typical Model M. Could you confirm or deny that assertion?   Actually have you ever typed on the M15?

I haven't typed on one, but they are based on the Model M2 as opposed to the regular Model Ms, which is probably where the idea comes from. I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.

[0100010]

What I want is a custom plate BS board with every key hard wired (aka 'lowpoly' method).  Would either need Model F barrels or cut each barrel of a Model M out.  Then fabricate a plate that could secure each barrel where desired.

Hard part is that I want to convert each BS key assembly into an electrical switch, where the spring itself is half of the circuit - with a metal strip along the length of the barrel for the other half.  Difficult enough to design initially, even more fun to rebuild reliably 100+ times.

Interesting! most options of having (say) a pcb to accept the switching, but having a metal hammer and a metal strip would likely last longer (I imagine copper pads on a PCB would delaminate quickly) but you will sadly have the same long debounce times as many other mechanical keyswitches. Better to have it made capacitive.

Little pricy, but probably could solve for debounce. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maxim-Integrated/MAX6818EAP+/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMunEhqKs81nFFSrWToUXdqMWAcDfaqCP7A=

[CPTBadAss]

Is it just me or is this the Kishsaver?

[mashby]

Is it just me or is this the Kishsaver?

 

[kishy]

Is it just me or is this the Kishsaver?

Is it just me or is this the Kishsaver?

 

Cat's out of the bag

http://kishy.dyndns.org/?p=648

[mashby]

Thank you Kishy for writing such a detailed article and providing so much information on the keyboard. I know I'm not alone in my appreciation for all your hard work. Thank you.

[CPTBadAss]

I'd like to second what Mashby said. The info is amazing and the disassembly pictures are so sexy. My only complaint is that I didn't see a Buy It Now button

[dorkvader]

The 50-key has vias on the capacitive matrix pcb.

[HolidaySHRIMP]

Industrial Model M SSK 87 winkey with USB!

Or KMAC buckling spring. <3

[dorkvader]

Industrial Model M SSK 87 winkey with USB!

Or KMAC buckling spring. <3

Neither of these exist. I'm not even sure what a "kmac buckling spring" would even be.

[Techno Trousers]

Yeah,  if we're in the realm of fantasy, I want a Unicomp-made SSK with windows keys, a dark gray case, and double shot caps: white on dark gray main keys, and white on black modifier keys. Mmmm...