Keycap Capability For Model M from Unicomp

[DuckNorris]

Hello Again,

   I currently purchased a Model M from ebay (IBM 1989) and from the pictures it looks like I may have to do some deep restoring/cleaning just in case.I purchased the tool to open the keyboard and such (excited).  Also, I was looking around for capability for the keycaps.

I found the unicomp ones and I was wanting to know if the ones listed for buckling springs are compatible with the Model M. Say these.

http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/PRGB
and
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/WASD

Does anything that work with the Unicomp 101 work with Model M?
Thank you for your time and help!

[1391406]

They're interchangeable.

[CPTBadAss]

Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps while you're buying too.

[DuckNorris]

Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps while you're buying too.

Oh wow, and those are all for Model M ? (all the geek hack ones you directed me to?) That is so awesome ^_^ . Thanks for showing me that. I may be giving this model M some little change but keep most of the vintage there .

[CPTBadAss]

Yup, they're for a Model Ms. I'm going to order some for my SSK.

[DuckNorris]

For the tux, you only get 4 keys? Where do the little linux penguins go then? o.O Model M doesn't have windows keys, I guess just anywhere?

[neoezekiel]

Be careful not all Model Ms have the same sized modifiers, and some have the post in a different position. It is a good idea to email them to confirm compatibility before you buy. I got bitten by different sized mods the last time I bought some.

For the tux, you only get 4 keys? Where do the little linux penguins go then? o.O Model M doesn't have windows keys, I guess just anywhere?

Some of the later Model Ms do have meta (windows) keys, and so do some of the Unicomp models

[rootwyrm]

Be careful not all Model Ms have the same sized modifiers, and some have the post in a different position. It is a good idea to email them to confirm compatibility before you buy. I got bitten by different sized mods the last time I bought some.

For the tux, you only get 4 keys? Where do the little linux penguins go then? o.O Model M doesn't have windows keys, I guess just anywhere?

Some of the later Model Ms do have meta (windows) keys, and so do some of the Unicomp models

No actual IBM Model M ever shipped with a Windows key. Not a single one. The Windows key didn't become commonplace until 1997 - and IBM never made the necessary revisions to the original M. The M2 didn't have it. The M15 didn't have it. Not a single Model M ever came in the 104/105 Windows key layout, not ever.
The only ones to ever have a Windows key were the Unicomps. And only models specifically with Windows keys. They made them work by removing the center block and narrowing the other keys slightly. The details are basically irrelevant because either way they don't work on an original M. (Which is why Unicomp differentiates.)

All Unicomp keys excepting Alt/Ctrl for 105 layouts are 100% direct swap. Exact same molds. The RGB modifier set you linked is correct for all model Ms excepting JIS and one other layout that escapes me at the moment. Unless dealing with an M13, all letter/numeric/numpad are direct swap.

[fohat.digs]

I have had Model M/Fs from the mid-1980s-2010 and I can tell you that there are significant differences in the appearance of the legends throughout that run. I have personally only seen 1-piece keys on some old F-XTs and F-ATs.

The most common of the legends (what I would consider the "standard") are moderately bold and set in from the top left corner of the edge of the key cap by about 2mm.

There are legends that are significantly more bold ("darker") and some that are less bold ("thinner") which turn up occasionally.

There are legends that I call "high" that seem crammed up into the upper left corner, perhaps only 1mm in from each edge.

As far as the secondary legends on the numpad, there are light and dark brown, light and dark gray, and black. You can rarely find others, such as orange and blue. (I have a blue set but have never seen orange in real life.)

Clickykeyboards will accommodate replacement number keys if you tell them something like "light brown" they know what you are talking about.

Unicomp keys are interchangeable and I have never had any problems with them, although some people think that their quality control is lower because of imperfections such as larger sprues and lack of trimming. I would not be concerned with Unicomp keys not matching your set if you buy replacements, unless you have a less common set such as the "high" legends.

[ch_123]

All Unicomp keys excepting Alt/Ctrl for 105 layouts are 100% direct swap.

Ctrls are the same size, it's only the Alts that were shrunk (they are the same size as the Windows keys)

[dorkvader]

One thing to note with older IBM boards is that they switched stabilizer designs in the 1980's, so you'll need an insert if you want to use new unicomp keys with them. Unicomp sells these inserts, I do believe.

[rootwyrm]

One thing to note with older IBM boards is that they switched stabilizer designs in the 1980's, so you'll need an insert if you want to use new unicomp keys with them. Unicomp sells these inserts, I do believe.

Oh yes! Almost forgot that! They do sell the inserts - you have to order them through customer service still though.

[DuckNorris]

One thing to note with older IBM boards is that they switched stabilizer designs in the 1980's, so you'll need an insert if you want to use new unicomp keys with them. Unicomp sells these inserts, I do believe.

Oh yes! Almost forgot that! They do sell the inserts - you have to order them through customer service still though.

What is an insert? Will I need it for this keyboard? It is a 1391401 , March 1989.

[fohat.digs]

March 1989 is about when the change took place.

Take off a long key such as numpad Enter or Backspace. Either you will find a "U-shaped" wire that fits in slots below, or there will be a peg (instead of a second chimney and spring) that fits into a colored plastic insert sleeve in the second chimney.

If you take off a wire and buy a replacement without a wire, you will need the insert sleeve. the vertical keys have off-centered sleeves, and the horizontal ones are centered.

[rootwyrm]

March 1989 is about when the change took place.

Take off a long key such as numpad Enter or Backspace. Either you will find a "U-shaped" wire that fits in slots below, or there will be a peg (instead of a second chimney and spring) that fits into a colored plastic insert sleeve in the second chimney.

If you take off a wire and buy a replacement without a wire, you will need the insert sleeve. the vertical keys have off-centered sleeves, and the horizontal ones are centered.

And don't forget the really, really obnoxious double-stabilized keys. I have an example of those in my closet right now. Anything '91 on though should be using the universal 'narrow' insert sleeve. No offset on those at all, and I believe those are what Unicomp has. They're much easier to deal with, but some form of lube is not optional. (I recommend WD40 prior to installation but there's lots of room for debate and preference there.)

[bazemk1979]

Hello Again,

   I currently purchased a Model M from ebay (IBM 1989) and from the pictures it looks like I may have to do some deep restoring/cleaning just in case.I purchased the tool to open the keyboard and such (excited).  Also, I was looking around for capability for the keycaps.

I found the unicomp ones and I was wanting to know if the ones listed for buckling springs are compatible with the Model M. Say these.

http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/PRGB
and
http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/WASD

Does anything that work with the Unicomp 101 work with Model M?
Thank you for your time and help!

will work

[DuckNorris]

March 1989 is about when the change took place.

Take off a long key such as numpad Enter or Backspace. Either you will find a "U-shaped" wire that fits in slots below, or there will be a peg (instead of a second chimney and spring) that fits into a colored plastic insert sleeve in the second chimney.

If you take off a wire and buy a replacement without a wire, you will need the insert sleeve. the vertical keys have off-centered sleeves, and the horizontal ones are centered.

I thought I only needed like the cap, not the entire key? Since IBM Model M is a two piece key.

[fohat.digs]

I thought I only needed like the cap, not the entire key? Since IBM Model M is a two piece key.

I was referring to the oversize keys. I pulled my Enter key to show the insert (this one is green, most are white or blue).

If your keyboard came with wire stabilizers, those inserts will not be in place and you will need to get them.

If they are already there, the new set from Unicomp will drop in directly.

[rootwyrm]

I was referring to the oversize keys. I pulled my Enter key to show the insert (this one is green, most are white or blue).

Wait what?

Most common is white, yes. Blue isn't quite as common. I've never seen green. I have however, seen a large quantity of gray - dark gray for vertical oriented offset, light gray for centered. O.o

(BTW, yes, they are all color coded. But the color coding is inconsistent except within a single keyboard. HOORAY!)

[fohat.digs]

Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.

[DuckNorris]

I thought I only needed like the cap, not the entire key? Since IBM Model M is a two piece key.

I was referring to the oversize keys. I pulled my Enter key to show the insert (this one is green, most are white or blue).

If your keyboard came with wire stabilizers, those inserts will not be in place and you will need to get them.

If they are already there, the new set from Unicomp will drop in directly.

Thank you so much for that explanation and now I know. For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

I am sorry for all the questions. I just heard about the Model M and I have always had Cherry MX, so I am pretty clueless on the Model M but it sounds nice so I want to restore one and bring it back to action. Thanks!

[rootwyrm]

Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.

... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

[fohat.digs]

For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

As soon as you open one up, this will all become obvious in one second.

[fohat.digs]

For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

All the oversize keys are one-piece. They all have 2 "holes" and the switch (barrel with spring) is in one. The second hole does nothing if a wire stabilizer is used, but if there is no wire, then the peg in the dummy side slips into the insert.

The long horizontal keys use the centered inserts, and the long vertical keys use the off-center inserts. Remember the orientation when you remove the key.

[0100010]

How interesting.  My Unicomp has gray off center inserts on the vertical oversize keys, and white centered inserts on the horizontal oversize keys.  Never knew there were different types (or colors) before.

[fohat.digs]

How interesting.  My Unicomp has gray off center inserts on the vertical oversize keys, and white centered inserts on the horizontal oversize keys.  Never knew there were different types (or colors) before.

I think that the colors are random. I have gotten factory stems in half a dozen colors, sometimes 3 different colors on the same board. I have gotten both on-center and off-center blue inserts, but think that all the white ones have been on-center. I seem to remember that the dark gray and black ones are all off-center, but not sure. Easy enough just to look at them!

[DuckNorris]

For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

All the oversize keys are one-piece. They all have 2 "holes" and the switch (barrel with spring) is in one. The second hole does nothing if a wire stabilizer is used, but if there is no wire, then the peg in the dummy side slips into the insert.

The long horizontal keys use the centered inserts, and the long vertical keys use the off-center inserts. Remember the orientation when you remove the key.

Thank you so much for educating me on the Model M , I now have a much better knowledge and feel more confident about it. If I even come up with a little issue later on can I message you regarding it? You have been very helpful.

[fohat.digs]

For the vertical keys, it is two piece right? I can just order the keycap, but for the horizontal ones I will need to order off center stabilizers correct? Also, is it one stabilizer per horizontal key?

All the oversize keys are one-piece. They all have 2 "holes" and the switch (barrel with spring) is in one. The second hole does nothing if a wire stabilizer is used, but if there is no wire, then the peg in the dummy side slips into the insert.

The long horizontal keys use the centered inserts, and the long vertical keys use the off-center inserts. Remember the orientation when you remove the key.

Thank you so much for educating me on the Model M , I now have a much better knowledge and feel more confident about it. If I even come up with a little issue later on can I message you regarding it? You have been very helpful.

There is a lot of passion here for ancient IBM iron.

There is something satisfying about a piece of craftsmanship that isn't made to be an appliance.

[neoezekiel]

Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.

... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind )

[rootwyrm]

Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.

... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind )

[neoezekiel]

Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.

... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind )

(Attachment Link)

Holy carp! I'm colorblind too, I did not know that about myself... 

[rootwyrm]

Note that the blue one is the "off-center" type.

... then where the hell are all these grays I have coming from!?! O.o

...And today rootwyrm came to the realization that he is colorblind )

(Attachment Link)

Holy carp! I'm colorblind too, I did not know that about myself... 

You must be. Those are Lexmark M13. And pretty sure M13's the only place I've ever seen them.

[terrpn]

Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps while you're buying too.

Oh wow, and those are all for Model M ? (all the geek hack ones you directed me to?) That is so awesome ^_^ . Thanks for showing me that. I may be giving this model M some little change but keep most of the vintage there .

Here's a shot of my model M (1397599) with some GH, etc. keys.........painted black background.

Lid is (black label) from a junk terminal board I swapped out with orig "blue label." Drilled out the holes and put a new LED Overlay I ordered from Unicomp. Remapped a F9-F12 keys and stuck on some multimedia keys since I do a lot of video and audio.

Crappy picture, but paint turned out nice...........I like the contrast.

Unicomp is awesome to deal with. Great customer service and quick shipping.

[DuckNorris]

Like 13941406 said, they'll work fine. You should get some Geekhack caps while you're buying too.

Oh wow, and those are all for Model M ? (all the geek hack ones you directed me to?) That is so awesome ^_^ . Thanks for showing me that. I may be giving this model M some little change but keep most of the vintage there .

Here's a shot of my model M (1397599) with some GH, etc. keys.........painted black background.

Lid is (black label) from a junk terminal board I swapped out with orig "blue label." Drilled out the holes and put a new LED Overlay I ordered from Unicomp. Remapped a F9-F12 keys and stuck on some multimedia keys since I do a lot of video and audio.

Crappy picture, but paint turned out nice...........I like the contrast.

Unicomp is awesome to deal with. Great customer service and quick shipping.

What kind of paint did you use to paint that keyboard? Also, I thought you didn't need to drill out new holes for a replacement LED Overlay. I really like that modification on yours btw, looks amazing

[rootwyrm]

What kind of paint did you use to paint that keyboard? Also, I thought you didn't need to drill out new holes for a replacement LED Overlay. I really like that modification on yours btw, looks amazing

You do, if the board didn't originally have the windows. The non-LED terminal boards come in two varieties I've seen. One with no cutouts and no window sticker, and the standard M upper with cutouts and a blanking window sticker (only found on later ones.)

[rowdy]

Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

[0100010]

Rowdy - it depends.  Blank black keys are one piece only, most of the other colors are two peice.  Always best to open a support ticket with them to ask your questions, get the specifics settled, then place your order referencing the ticket number.

[terrpn]

This particular cover I cannibalized off a an old RJ-45 board that was in bad shape and did not have the windowed LED, so I just drilled and flipped an overlay on it.

I used Krylon Fusion Satin Black for PLASTIC.

I did not want to spray the original blue label lid that came with it as it is in good shape, the one you see I painted black had a scuff or 2 on it so I said what the heck. Definitely mask with "frog" tape if you paint.

I have collected fountain pens for years as well, so I took some silicone grease I use sometimes for them.............shoved a bunch in the space bar spring barrel just to see if there would be a difference and can you believe it (the space bar only)........it is more or less only tactile now without the click.

Of course I like clack when bangin the keys, so the reason why I only did the space bar.

[terrpn]

Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

The keycaps I ordered from Unicomp are the 1 piece variety (plunger/stem and cap are 1 unit)........verses the older 2 piece cap and stem.

[wcass]

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

i have ordered caps probably 5 or 6 times from Unicomp and received a key stem for every key cap every time.

[rowdy]

Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

The keycaps I ordered from Unicomp are the 1 piece variety (plunger/stem and cap are 1 unit)........verses the older 2 piece cap and stem.

This sounds like a better idea.  The caps I have I noticed come off very easily - no wonder a few have gone missing.

As this thread is discussing cases too, can I ask about cables?

One of my Model Ms has a detachable cable, which is missing.  I can just get a "detachable PS/2 cable" from Unicomp - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/1395110 - should be ok.

The other one does not have a removable cable, but someone has cut the cable off about 5cm (2") from the keyboard.  Unicomp list an "attached cable" - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/ACable - would this be a replacement for the cut cable?  Or am I up for cutting and joining a detachable cable to this one?

[terrpn]

Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

The keycaps I ordered from Unicomp are the 1 piece variety (plunger/stem and cap are 1 unit)........verses the older 2 piece cap and stem.

This sounds like a better idea.  The caps I have I noticed come off very easily - no wonder a few have gone missing.

As this thread is discussing cases too, can I ask about cables?

One of my Model Ms has a detachable cable, which is missing.  I can just get a "detachable PS/2 cable" from Unicomp - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/1395110 - should be ok.

The other one does not have a removable cable, but someone has cut the cable off about 5cm (2") from the keyboard.  Unicomp list an "attached cable" - http://pckeyboard.com/page/Cables/ACable - would this be a replacement for the cut cable?  Or am I up for cutting and joining a detachable cable to this one?

I ordered my (detatchable) cable from Unicomp.............it was faster than ebay, etc.

As far as your cut cable (attached to keyboard) I would just buy from Unicomp, pop the lid and get your soldering iron out. I have never changed an attached cable, but I guarentee there are enough people here who would gladly walk you through it. Unicomp to my knowledge has everything you need to rebuild your M.

Just remember to get you a long shaft 7/32 socket as a regular socket will not reach when opening the case.

[terrpn]

sorry..............should have included

7/32= 5.5mm

[rowdy]

Cool, thanks for that!

I only collected them late yesterday evening, posted a couple of pictures, and left it at that.  Thought I'd start asking questions now rather than later - might give me something to do this weekend.  Or at least to start.

Unicomp cables are cheaper than those I have seen on eBay, delivery times would vary (to Australia), but their estimate of $24 shipping for a single cable had me going

I might have to get an idea of everything I need and buy it all at once to avoid multiple large shipping costs for many small packages.

[dorkvader]

Having recently acquired two somewhat worse for wear Model M, here's the first of probably many questions I will have.

When ordering these keycaps from Unicomp, do you get just the cap bit that fits over the top, or do you get the plunger bit that goes underneath as well?

Of my two boards, both are completely missing some keys, and one is missing just some of the caps.

I actually asked them this and didn't receive a very clear answer. What I received was either a one piece keycap or both parts of a two piece. Sometimes the bottom part of a two piece had some colour discontinuities, but were otherwise excellent.

I have a wiha 5.5mm thinwall "picofinish" nutdriver and it works quite well for my model M's.

If you like, I'll happily mail forward you anything you need to buy.

[rowdy]

I actually asked them this and didn't receive a very clear answer. What I received was either a one piece keycap or both parts of a two piece. Sometimes the bottom part of a two piece had some colour discontinuities, but were otherwise excellent.

I have a wiha 5.5mm thinwall "picofinish" nutdriver and it works quite well for my model M's.

If you like, I'll happily mail forward you anything you need to buy.

Thanks for the input.  Lots to learn about the Model M, but they are simply and strongly made, and all I need is a little time.

I have a variety of tools, mostly smaller, so I would be surprised if I don't have something to fit those nuts.  Hopefully I will have a chance to look this weekend.

If you get either a single piece, or both parts of a two piece, keycaps that would suit me fine.  The RGB keycaps, as I understand it, are single part keycaps anyway.

I might take you up on that forwarding offer, once I work out what I need.  Their estimate of shipping for just one cable was about $24

[terrpn]

OK............I just pulled a few keycaps I purchased from Unicomp including 1 x1, rgb mods, GH keys.

They are for the most part "2 piece", however they do sell both the cap and stem/plunger together as "1 unit"- so my bad as I thought they were mostly 1 piece. The GH short and long shift are "1 piece."

If stateside I got my 7/32 or 5.5mm deep socket from Home Depot for $2.99.

Hope this helps.........151`

Just wanted to make sure I set the record straight since we are here

[dorkvader]

I actually asked them this and didn't receive a very clear answer. What I received was either a one piece keycap or both parts of a two piece. Sometimes the bottom part of a two piece had some colour discontinuities, but were otherwise excellent.

I have a wiha 5.5mm thinwall "picofinish" nutdriver and it works quite well for my model M's.

If you like, I'll happily mail forward you anything you need to buy.

Thanks for the input.  Lots to learn about the Model M, but they are simply and strongly made, and all I need is a little time.

I have a variety of tools, mostly smaller, so I would be surprised if I don't have something to fit those nuts.  Hopefully I will have a chance to look this weekend.

If you get either a single piece, or both parts of a two piece, keycaps that would suit me fine.  The RGB keycaps, as I understand it, are single part keycaps anyway.

I might take you up on that forwarding offer, once I work out what I need.  Their estimate of shipping for just one cable was about $24

Shipping to Australia is always expensive, but it becomes better if you are getting a lot of stuff sent all at once. I'm ok with holding stuff for you for a few months.

IBM used odd sizes for their bolts in model M's and F's. I had to special order a 9/32 for my F's. For the M's I have a cheap chinese set of screwdrivers and tips that the 5.5mm from also work well.

[rowdy]

OK............I just pulled a few keycaps I purchased from Unicomp including 1 x1, rgb mods, GH keys.

They are for the most part "2 piece", however they do sell both the cap and stem/plunger together as "1 unit"- so my bad as I thought they were mostly 1 piece. The GH short and long shift are "1 piece."

If stateside I got my 7/32 or 5.5mm deep socket from Home Depot for $2.99.

Hope this helps.........151`

Just wanted to make sure I set the record straight since we are here

Definitely sounds encouraging.  I would have hoped they would sell the top and bottom parts of the keycap together, and it seems they do.

Thank you

[DuckNorris]

After hours and extensive cleaning I remember to ask this. See those blue and white inserts for my keys? Does that mean I have inserts and can just drop in Unicomp keys for the larger ones?