Author Topic: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX  (Read 14558 times)

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Offline ImperfectLink

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The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 13:20:51 »


There is an increasing number of people who own or are looking into 60% and other mini keyboards with non-standard keys. This makes purchasing keycaps for your board more restrictive so I thought it would be a good idea to catalog all the non-standard keys of various small form factor keyboards such as Filco Minila, Leopold FC660M, KBT Race etc. and create a specification set of supplemental keys.

This would allow you to buy any standard set and a supplemental TMC set to outfit your board. After all, it seems that buying 500 sets of 3 non-standard spacebars would be a lower cost per purchase than 50 sets of 1 non-standard spacebar.




Due to restrictions on my time I'll need help figuring out which boards, identifying how many non-standard keys, and how many users there are so if you're a mini layout owner please jump in. Filco Minila for example has 10 non-standard keys (I think) including a 3x sized space and two round top Fn keys. Leopold FC660M has 3. I've created a spreadsheet with keyboards and keyboard owners so we can get an idea of our numbers per model.

So far I have:

Filco Minila
Leopold FC660M
KBT Race
KBT Pure
KBT Pure Pro
Keycool 84
Noppoo Choc Mini
Tex Beetle

This first post is not completely thought out so bare with me.



So between these 5 keyboards, you would only need a 20 key set to cover any of them. Please correct me if any of the info is wrong.
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 August 2013, 19:20:47 by ImperfectLink »

Offline alaricljs

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 13:23:51 »
It's a few $k for a space bar mold... just sayin.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 13:26:24 »
Have you checked which companies (such as SP) would be willing to do this? I actually have no idea if SP has molds for odd size caps.

Also there might be interest from owners of like a Quick Fire TK or other non-60% boards which use a 6x spacebar.

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 13:32:02 »
I checked with SP and they have a 3x key already. I figured I'd spark the conversation to see what's possible. Most of the key molds already exist, but are made expensive by them not being part of a group buy style set. What made me think of this was the Tsangan spec. Yeah I could see just buying a set of spacebars since that is the most problematic for people with leopolds and other minis.

Thanks for contributing fellas.

Offline tbc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 15:31:58 »
as a minila owner, I am greatly interested in a blank set    cherry profile. preferably thick pbt, pbt, pom, abs in that order
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 15:39:24 »
IIRC, SP PBT is expensive which is why most PBT GBs aren't done through them.

Offline tbc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 16:09:24 »
might want to add tex beetle to that list?
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Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 16:27:18 »
might want to add tex beetle to that list?

;-)
Thanks

Offline CommunistWitchDr

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 16:43:46 »
might want to add tex beetle to that list?

;-)
Thanks

And take the two pokers off it, they're both totally standard.

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 16:49:33 »
And take the two pokers off it, they're both totally standard.

Gracias :-)

Offline Puddsy

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 05 August 2013, 17:51:18 »
If it fits on my miniLA, I will buy it. Even if it's just a lame kit.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 03:44:51 »
Ah, too bad you guys don't have a minila convention for the Model F 84 key, probably the funkiest layout for all PC and newer keyboards.

Show Image


There is an increasing number of people who own or are looking into 60% and other mini keyboards with non-standard keys. This makes purchasing keycaps for your board more restrictive so I thought it would be a good idea to catalog all the non-standard keys of various small form factor keyboards such as Filco Minila, Leopold FC660M, KBT Race etc. and create a specification set of supplemental keys.

This would allow you to buy any standard set and a supplemental TMC set to outfit your board. After all, it seems that buying 500 sets of 3 non-standard spacebars would be a lower cost per purchase than 50 sets of 1 non-standard spacebar.

Show Image

Show Image


Due to restrictions on my time I'll need help figuring out which boards, identifying how many non-standard keys, and how many users there are so if you're a mini layout owner please jump in. Filco Minila for example has 10 non-standard keys (I think) including a 3x sized space and two round top Fn keys. Leopold FC660M has 3. I've created a spreadsheet with keyboards and keyboard owners so we can get an idea of our numbers per model.

So far I have:

Filco Minila
Leopold FC660M
KBT Race
KBT Pure
KBT Pure Pro
Keycool 84
Noppoo Choc Mini
Tex Beetle

This first post is not completely thought out so bare with me.
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Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 10:23:57 »
Added a chart of 3 keyboards. Please correct me if any info is wrong.

Offline FuriousGeorge

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 13:08:11 »
I would definitely be interested in some 4.5 spacebars or anything that would fit the beetle.

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 13:49:19 »
Added KBT Race.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 13:56:44 »
If the Pure short right/1800 shift is included in a Tsangan, do you need to include it here too? Just curious. This project is pretty interesting ^__^

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 14:16:45 »
Added Pure. It didn't change the number needed.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 14:18:37 »
Hm ok, options are always nice. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I might buy this over a Tsangan for the shift if the price was right.

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 14:33:12 »
Yeah still working out how big the set would need to be to cover all small and non-standard boards.

Added a standard TKL for ref.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 14:34:32 »
You should add in the picture of the keycap checker/89 key base that TechKeys was selling. Not everyone knows what a normal sized spacebar spacing is or what a standard mod row is.

Offline MOZ

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 16:09:08 »
Interesting project, I think you will end up with a pretty big set by the end. Already at 34.

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 16:13:36 »
Interesting project, I think you will end up with a pretty big set by the end. Already at 34.

It's more like 18 at this point since most of the others are duplicates. The point is to create a universal supplement set.

Offline MOZ

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 16:23:28 »
I understand that, my only concern is that it doesn't shoot to too high a number, that the set becomes too expensive during production.

Not trying to discourage, but bringing up a point to ponder, that maybe once you have your database of all the keyboards, you might look to remove a couple that are not too popular and save the set from not moving forward due to high costs.

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 16:31:30 »
I understand that, my only concern is that it doesn't shoot to too high a number, that the set becomes too expensive during production.

Not trying to discourage, but bringing up a point to ponder, that maybe once you have your database of all the keyboards, you might look to remove a couple that are not too popular and save the set from not moving forward due to high costs.

I agree with your point. That's why I would also like to get an idea of how many users own which boards. My first assumption is that as the list of keyboards grows, so will the duplicate keys.

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 06 August 2013, 19:21:16 »
Added a few more. Can anyone confirm that the Choc mini has a 5.5x spacebar?

Offline nourathar

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 19 August 2013, 17:03:42 »
great idea, as a mechkeyboard novice and minila owner and first-time groupbuyer I am just starting to see the problem.
Wasdkeyboards has all the non-standard minila keycaps, except for the 3.0 spacebar, or am I totally wrong ?

Offline spiceBar

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 21:37:05 »
From a hi-res picture of the Leopold FC660C, I can tell that the right-Shift is exactly the same length as the left-Shift.

I'm in the process of ordering this board, so when I receive it I'll be able to tell if it's really exactly the same key (maybe the part under the key is different).

If it's really the same key, do you count it as "non-standard"?

And this could apply as well to the FC660M (I have not checked and I don't plan to purchase one anyway).

Offline ImperfectLink

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 20 August 2013, 21:53:28 »
From a hi-res picture of the Leopold FC660C, I can tell that the right-Shift is exactly the same length as the left-Shift.

I'm in the process of ordering this board, so when I receive it I'll be able to tell if it's really exactly the same key (maybe the part under the key is different).

If it's really the same key, do you count it as "non-standard"?

And this could apply as well to the FC660M (I have not checked and I don't plan to purchase one anyway).

It's non-standard if it isn't the same as a TKL or full. In which the Shift keys are not equal.

Sorry I haven't worked on this in a few days since I have other pressing matters.

Offline aggiejy

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 11:14:14 »
Awesome project, keep it up. :)

Offline tbc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 11:48:50 »
I just realized that the minila isn't quite as bad as it looks if you use blanks.  just need a r1 key for left Ctrl.
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Offline spiceBar

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 12:25:43 »
I can confirm that both Shifts on the FC660C are exactly the same size.

Offline isaske

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 04 September 2013, 14:41:30 »
I have a MINILA and i would love to see some sets done in the future :D Would also like to pimp it as i'm gonna do with the FILCO TKL.  ^-^
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Offline edwinS

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 03 November 2013, 20:43:37 »
Any progress here? I have Filco Minila too.

Offline Linkbane

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 11:19:59 »
Have you checked which companies (such as SP) would be willing to do this? I actually have no idea if SP has molds for odd size caps.

Also there might be interest from owners of like a Quick Fire TK or other non-60% boards which use a 6x spacebar.

I would be interested.  :'(
No PBT on my spacebar, but at least I can use the textured one from my Corsair.
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Offline bvtton

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 07:30:58 »
Interested as well  :thumb:  (MiniLa owner)

Offline yjfknt

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 12:26:34 »
The KBT Pure Pro has a small backspace.
Here's a picture of layout: http://goo.gl/H5KsHv

Offline unicomp_uc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 20:59:06 »
My newly hooked up Minila... I'm cross threading and must stop so this is my last duplicate post, except I forgot about this thread and thought you guys might be interested. I got PBT DSA caps from keycapsdirect.com and special ordered the modifiers that were listed in this thread. If you get the base and the modifiers and the specialty keys as listed by the OP, you're good to go. The spacebar is the only key that is ABS but it's very much improved compared to the original ABS material- Significantly thicker and more textured. I got two modifier sets so I can change them with my mood.

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« Last Edit: Fri, 15 November 2013, 21:02:38 by unicomp_uc »
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Offline tbc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 21:48:22 »
LMFAO.  i was in the process of putting in my DSAs on my minila today too lol.

all black with an extra red numpad set for when i feel like it (using it to highlight shift+number row symbols that i don't totally memorize yet).
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Offline tbc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 21:49:23 »
where did you order the spacebar from?  link?

EDIT:

it's not convex like spacebars are?
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Offline unicomp_uc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 21:53:07 »
where did you order the spacebar from?  link?

EDIT:

it's not convex like spacebars are?


It's technically not a spacebar. It's a 3x key ordered from this link: http://www.keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DSAInventory.pdf

You can get it in black or white but the 3x only comes in ABS. I'd reiterate that it is significantly better quality than the stock ABS
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Offline tbc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 22:33:20 »
thanks for sharing.  I for one did not know about that (i learn right after the free shipping ends).  although, i still wouldn't have gotten it now that i thought about it (i REALLY need the convexness to help me position).

looks damn awesome ;)
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Offline unicomp_uc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 23:09:47 »
thanks for sharing.  I for one did not know about that (i learn right after the free shipping ends).  although, i still wouldn't have gotten it now that i thought about it (i REALLY need the convexness to help me position).

looks damn awesome ;)

Thanks man, I love it!
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Offline flaming_june

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 00:54:33 »
So much animation in this mother ffffffkaaaa

i luv me hhkb.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 00:56:22 »
So much animation in this mother ffffffkaaaa

i luv me hhkb.

Lol whut?

Offline ideus

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 26 December 2013, 23:41:46 »
Is this project dead?

Offline ideus

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 27 December 2013, 15:18:25 »
Is this still alive?

Offline Puddsy

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 27 December 2013, 15:59:14 »
Kind of. See SpaceFn
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Offline ideus

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 27 December 2013, 16:04:15 »
Kind of. See SpaceFn


Thank you for the answer. However, isn't SpaceFn a software? The MiniLa was an intent to define a set that fits most of non ANSI layouts.

Offline tbc

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 27 December 2013, 16:31:48 »
You're right.


Just a tip; switch to DSA, that will get you everything except convex spacebars and legends.

The poker is wayyuu to popular compared to other 60%s
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Offline ideus

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Re: The MiniLa Convention (non-standard keyboard owners) MX
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 27 December 2013, 16:35:00 »
You're right.


Just a tip; switch to DSA, that will get you everything except convex spacebars and legends.

The poker is wayyuu to popular compared to other 60%s


I have a Poker X, but now I am using a Leopold FC660M. What do you mean by DSA? You meant the caps profile? I am confused. The thread is about a standard pack definition for extra caps, then you mentioned a software, and now a caps' profile??  :-\