Topre Realforce 88 UB // Problems with OSX

[low-fi]

I just bought a late 2012 model 21,5" iMac, which has worked perfectly except for one annoying problem: my tenkeyless Topre 88 UB stops working after the computer wakes up from the sleep mode. I can wake the iMac up by pressing a key on the Topre, but when the password/login screen shows up, the keyboard just shuts down and nothing else seems to revive it than re-connecting it to the USB port. The wireless keyboard that came with the iMac works just fine and my Filco tenkeyless (USB) doesn't seem to have this problem either. I've tested this on all of the four USB ports. The exact Topre model I am using is the FI/SWE one that Verkkokauppa.com is selling: http://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/product/36437/cxgmj/Topre-Realforce-88-UB-Black-langallinen-nappaimisto-suomenki#tab-product-description

One of my theories for the cause of the problem is that the Topre keyboard doesn't have any Caps Lock / Scroll Lock / etc. indicator LEDs, which seem to light up on the Filco keyboard when the iMac wakes up from the sleep mode. Could it be that OS X is trying to signal the keyboard to light up some LEDs it doesn't have and this messes up the communication between the computer and the keyboard? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! At least my Filco works so I'm not doomed to use the Apple keyboard as my primary input device...

[MJ45]

When you wake up from sleep use your mouse to wake it then the keyboard should work. On my system (27' IMac - RF 87u) I can wake the computer with the keyboard but it does not work after that, if you wake it up with a mouse click it will work fine. I really don't know why but its a workaround. Other keyboards (non Apple) wont wake the computer at all.

[low-fi]

When you wake up from sleep use your mouse to wake it then the keyboard should work. On my system (27' IMac - RF 87u) I can wake the computer with the keyboard but it does not work after that, if you wake it up with a mouse click it will work fine. I really don't know why but its a workaround. Other keyboards (non Apple) wont wake the computer at all.

Guess what? Your solution worked! Thank you very much.

It's a bit strange though that the Filco (FKBN88MC/SWB2) is able to wake the system AND work just fine after that as well. I guess that Apple hardware just isn't 100% compatible with non-Apple hardware. Are there any tenkeyless mechanical Mac keyboards (with the same layout as Topre/Filco -- this is very important) available?

[Mamajam]

I have a late model 27 inch 2012 iMac, the usb connection issue is a bug with certain controllers, and the new OS X power control profiles. You can disable the hibernation mode in terminal, and this will fix the problem most of the time. Go into terminal and type

Code: [Select]

pmset -g

To see you settings, you can post them here and I'll tell you what you need to change if you are interested. Don't worry if you don't like it, you can set it back to default very easily.

[MJ45]

When you wake up from sleep use your mouse to wake it then the keyboard should work. On my system (27' IMac - RF 87u) I can wake the computer with the keyboard but it does not work after that, if you wake it up with a mouse click it will work fine. I really don't know why but its a workaround. Other keyboards (non Apple) wont wake the computer at all.

Guess what? Your solution worked! Thank you very much.

It's a bit strange though that the Filco (FKBN88MC/SWB2) is able to wake the system AND work just fine after that as well. I guess that Apple hardware just isn't 100% compatible with non-Apple hardware. Are there any tenkeyless mechanical Mac keyboards (with the same layout as Topre/Filco -- this is very important) available?

I also have HHKB Pro2 and it wakes the system normally but some keyboard firmwares do not work right with OSX 10.x but a click is easy.

[rowdy]

Slightly related - I cannot wake my Mac up with a key press on either the HHKB 2 Pro of the Model M.  The Ducky shine worked fine though.  And the QFR.

[Mamajam]

Slightly related - I cannot wake my Mac up with a key press on either the HHKB 2 Pro of the Model M.  The Ducky shine worked fine though.  And the QFR.

Even with the dip switch num 6 on?

[rowdy]

Slightly related - I cannot wake my Mac up with a key press on either the HHKB 2 Pro of the Model M.  The Ducky shine worked fine though.  And the QFR.

Even with the dip switch num 6 on?

I'd have to double-check - I switched to a Model M a couple of weeks ago and the HHKB is already packed for a house move.

[low-fi]

Mamjam:

I'll see to this issue when I have more time. I am very thankful for your insights and I'm actually very interested in how OS X handles certain I/O-devices in general.

To all:

Guess what: I just bought an actual Apple wired keyboard with a numpad. Even though I've mostly used mechanical keyboards for years, I like the feel of this 'board. It really is not BAD. And I liked the idea of having all the exotic buttons where they should be. BUT: This keyboard just had exactly the same problem as my Topre! What on Earth is going on?? Even Apple can't make their peripherals work right on their computers? I have this keyboard connected to my Mac via the extension cable that was provided with the keyboard. Does anyone here have the same problem or is my Mac in fact faulty?

[rowdy]

Nope. My wired Apple aluminium keyboard worked faultlessly, even letting me wake my Mac by pressing a key (which is about the only thing that my collection if mechanical keyboards won't let me do).

I have a Mac mini running Snow Leopard fwiw.

[Tivor]

Mac mini (mid-2011), Mountain Lion 10.8.4, Apple wired keyboard (laptop style keys with numpad), and no problem waking the computer and typing the password.

But normally, I just give a quick tap on the trackpad to wake it up.  *shrug*

[low-fi]

I've occassionally tested this Apple keyboard for about five times since my last post and it has worked flawlessly. I guess I have encountered a minor bug. Thanks for your input!

[low-fi]

I've occassionally tested this Apple keyboard for about five times since my last post and it has worked flawlessly. I guess I have encountered a minor bug. Thanks for your input!

Yup, tested for a couple of times: I put the computer to sleep, woke it up and typed in the password with the Apple keyboard. Works like a charm every time.

Nothing to see here! Move along and thank you.

[kansas city shuffle]

When you wake up from sleep use your mouse to wake it then the keyboard should work. On my system (27' IMac - RF 87u) I can wake the computer with the keyboard but it does not work after that, if you wake it up with a mouse click it will work fine. I really don't know why but its a workaround. Other keyboards (non Apple) wont wake the computer at all.

Brillant! Thank you sir! I was experiencing this very problem with my RealForce 87U and MacBookPro, awakening it with the mouse seems to work like a charm! Thank you so much! 

[kansas city shuffle]

I have a late model 27 inch 2012 iMac, the usb connection issue is a bug with certain controllers, and the new OS X power control profiles. You can disable the hibernation mode in terminal, and this will fix the problem most of the time. Go into terminal and type

Code: [Select]

pmset -g

To see you settings, you can post them here and I'll tell you what you need to change if you are interested. Don't worry if you don't like it, you can set it back to default very easily.

Once you've made the change, how do you reset this back to default?

[sameer.wahid]

When you wake up from sleep use your mouse to wake it then the keyboard should work. On my system (27' IMac - RF 87u) I can wake the computer with the keyboard but it does not work after that, if you wake it up with a mouse click it will work fine. I really don't know why but its a workaround. Other keyboards (non Apple) wont wake the computer at all.

Thanks MJ45. I was having the exact same problem as the OP and your trick solves it.

Once you've made the change, how do you reset this back to default?

KCS: Not sure what changes you may have made. Typing "pmset -g" will only display the current power management settings, not change anything.

[mougrim]

Great... Buy expensive Mac - get problems with your favourite keyboard gratis

[rowdy]

Great... Buy expensive Mac - get problems with your favourite keyboard gratis

At least I have not had to reboot my Mac just because I plugged in a new keyboard.  Which is more than you can say for another windowy operating system.

[mougrim]

Great... Buy expensive Mac - get problems with your favourite keyboard gratis

At least I have not had to reboot my Mac just because I plugged in a new keyboard.  Which is more than you can say for another windowy operating system.

Hmmm... never heard about this. Is keyboard was USB? Strange indeed...

[rowdy]

Great... Buy expensive Mac - get problems with your favourite keyboard gratis

At least I have not had to reboot my Mac just because I plugged in a new keyboard.  Which is more than you can say for another windowy operating system.

Hmmm... never heard about this. Is keyboard was USB? Strange indeed...

Yes, a USB keyboard.  Can't remember now which one it was - it might have been the KeyCool 87.  "Windows has finished installing device drivers - you must reboot before the new hardware can be used".

[mougrim]

Great... Buy expensive Mac - get problems with your favourite keyboard gratis

At least I have not had to reboot my Mac just because I plugged in a new keyboard.  Which is more than you can say for another windowy operating system.

Hmmm... never heard about this. Is keyboard was USB? Strange indeed...

Yes, a USB keyboard.  Can't remember now which one it was - it might have been the KeyCool 87.  "Windows has finished installing device drivers - you must reboot before the new hardware can be used".

I saw message like this after I plugged in new mouse. But it worked just fine without reboot...

[rowdy]

Great... Buy expensive Mac - get problems with your favourite keyboard gratis

At least I have not had to reboot my Mac just because I plugged in a new keyboard.  Which is more than you can say for another windowy operating system.

Hmmm... never heard about this. Is keyboard was USB? Strange indeed...

Yes, a USB keyboard.  Can't remember now which one it was - it might have been the KeyCool 87.  "Windows has finished installing device drivers - you must reboot before the new hardware can be used".

I saw message like this after I plugged in new mouse. But it worked just fine without reboot...

I seem to recall that keyboard was working, but Microsoft wanted a reboot so I rebooted anyway.  Just to be sure.

[Smasher816]

It seems like microsoft wants a reboot for anything.

That's one nice thing about Linux. You never have to reboot for anything (except for a kernel upgrade, without ksplice).

[mougrim]

It seems like microsoft wants a reboot for anything.

That's one nice thing about Linux. You never have to reboot for anything (except for a kernel upgrade, without ksplice).

If it wants reboot that doesn't mean you should give it to it

[benfrain]

Just resurrecting this one to ask if anyone has a better solution? I found the wake with mouse for my HHKB Pro through trial and error but wondered if there is anything that can be done to allow wake with key press (I have to lock my machine when walking away from desk so can't leave hibernate off)?

[saturnotaku]

It's funny this thread should come up because I am experiencing the exact same problem with a Realforce 87U and the Mac Mini I use at work. A key press works to wake the system from sleep, but after that the board just goes dead. However, clicking the mouse button to wake it causes the keyboard to function normally.

Since it seems to affect both the Realforce and HHKB, there must be some kind of firmware issue. I could use a key press all day long with the Filco I had connected to the machine previously. In the end, it's not a huge deal to use the mouse, but it would be nice if there were some kind of permanent fix for the keyboard. For the joy that typing on the Realforce brings, along with my much improved accuracy, it's a compromise I'm more than willing to make.

[jorgenslee]

Just resurrecting this one to ask if anyone has a better solution? I found the wake with mouse for my HHKB Pro through trial and error but wondered if there is anything that can be done to allow wake with key press (I have to lock my machine when walking away from desk so can't leave hibernate off)?

I can wake my mac just fine on my hhkb pro 2. I use this setting on dip switch, 011001. Also installed the driver I found on EK's site.

[MJ45]

It's funny this thread should come up because I am experiencing the exact same problem with a Realforce 87U and the Mac Mini I use at work. A key press works to wake the system from sleep, but after that the board just goes dead. However, clicking the mouse button to wake it causes the keyboard to function normally.

Since it seems to affect both the Realforce and HHKB, there must be some kind of firmware issue. I could use a key press all day long with the Filco I had connected to the machine previously. In the end, it's not a huge deal to use the mouse, but it would be nice if there were some kind of permanent fix for the keyboard. For the joy that typing on the Realforce brings, along with my much improved accuracy, it's a compromise I'm more than willing to make.

I have both keyboards, HHKB Pro 2, my dip settings SW2 ON for Mac, set SW6 ON wakes every time. I have found with Mac OS 10.6x thru current 10.9x no drivers are needed in fact can cause other issues.
On the Realforce 87ub 55g I have must be woke-up with the mouse to function, the keyboard will wake the computer but gets disconnected and won't function unless unplug-replug USB cable. But I have found if you put the computer back to sleep with the mouse again then re-awaken it with the mouse the keyboard will work again without unplug- replug. I think the Realforce's firmware does not play well with Mac OS 10.xx, thats what I do.

[saturnotaku]

Not knowing who else to contact, I sent an email to Elitekeyboards support to see if they can shed some light on this. Perhaps they can contact their distributor who can then contact Leopold and get the issue on their radar. It might behoove others of you who are experiencing this to do the same.

[MJ45]

Not knowing who else to contact, I sent an email to Elitekeyboards support to see if they can shed some light on this. Perhaps they can contact their distributor who can then contact Leopold and get the issue on their radar. It might behoove others of you who are experiencing this to do the same.

I have asked around on DeskThority and no one had any answers, also the RF TKL's have firmware update enable dip switch but never found any firmware updates or info about them.

[saturnotaku]

Which is exactly why I contacted Elitekeyboards and am suggesting others to do likewise. If enough people start complaining, we might be able to get this issue recognized.

[saturnotaku]

No reply from EK, but I did create a video illustrating this exact problem. There's an annotation in the first 30 seconds with a link to a review of a different 87U. This problem occurs with both keyboards. There is no way this issue not the keyboard.

[MJ45]

No reply from EK, but I did create a video illustrating this exact problem. There's an annotation in the first 30 seconds with a link to a review of a different 87U. This problem occurs with both keyboards. There is no way this issue not the keyboard.

I think it's both Mac OS 10xx and the Realforce firmware interaction. Like I said before some keyboards work well and some don't. Most are PC (Win) compatible very few have Mac features (dip settings etc). The HHKB Pro is about the most Mac friendly but works with any OS. I have a couple of Phantom's that are fully programable but the TMK firmware wont wake my Mac but Easy AVR USB Keyboard firmware by metalliqaz does. I'm no programmer but its something different in the firmware. I really doubt Realforce will do any thing about it unless enough Mac users request it. Mac users may just have to live or workaround it.

[saturnotaku]

I think it's both Mac OS 10xx and the Realforce firmware interaction. Like I said before some keyboards work well and some don't. Most are PC (Win) compatible very few have Mac features (dip settings etc). The HHKB Pro is about the most Mac friendly but works with any OS. I have a couple of Phantom's that are fully programable but the TMK firmware wont wake my Mac but Easy AVR USB Keyboard firmware by metalliqaz does. I'm no programmer but its something different in the firmware. I really doubt Realforce will do any thing about it unless enough Mac users request it. Mac users may just have to live or workaround it.

Whatever the cause, I just find it very odd that the keyboard is capable of waking the system, but then it goes completely dead. I just wanted to have some kind of documentation out there to show that it is a problem as well as show the workaround so people will not think that their board has a mechanical defect.

[benfrain]

Yes, Dipswitch 6 to on worked for me (should have looked there first!)

[Imoby]

Has this issue been resolved by any chance? Not sure what you guys meant by 6th dip switch as thats not available on the real force.

[xrayos]

^ seems like this has been resolved. I have an iMac with Yosemite and it wakes from sleep without any issues. Although, I have a Realforce 87U


[edit]
there's still a problem with OS X. Dunno what is causing it. Karabiner?

[xrayos]

well, it's not karabiner. it's a shame that I'm going to move the realforce keyboard to the spare pc as the iMac is my main computer. Does the novatouch have the same problem with OS X?

[TopreFan333]

Got curious and just tried this with my HHKB and my Mac Mini running Yosemite.

I found that using the keyboard to wake the machine resulted in a non-responsive keyboard that had to be unplugged/replugged to register keys again. DIP switches 2 and 6 are on and the others are all off.

[Valen]

No problem with HHKB Pro JP (all switches OFF) and RF 08UG-HiPro (no switches) on OS X Mavericks 10.9.4.

[xrayos]

Too bad there isn't a fix for this. With my iMac, there seems to be 2 stages of sleep. First few minutes (?) is just monitor going blank. If I give it 5 minutes then the RF will not function properly.

[xrayos]

hmm,

just tried my topre keyboard with OS X Sierra 10.12 and it seems to wake up from sleep and works fine.

guess it was a OS X issue from the start

[Andy_Nixeus]

Apple actually makes their products pretty proprietary. Apple products will always work flawlessly with apple products as thats what they intended to make it for. They dont make stuff intended for people to use third party products. That is why apple stuff has so much trouble working with third party products like monitors and keyboards. This is what we have noticed while testing our products with MACs

[TopreFan333]

Apple actually makes their products pretty proprietary. Apple products will always work flawlessly with apple products as thats what they intended to make it for. They dont make stuff intended for people to use third party products. That is why apple stuff has so much trouble working with third party products like monitors and keyboards. This is what we have noticed while testing our products with MACs

Nah. Not so true. I've been using Macs for 20 years in professional design work, and the vast majority of peripherals I've used have been third-party. Scanners, mice, monitors, keyboards, printers, digital cameras, hard drives... they all work as you'd expect. I mix and match whatever brand of device I please, for the most part, and just plug things in via USB, DVI, etc and they work just fine.

[cmc]

Does the novatouch have the same problem with OS X?

I have a Novatouch on my iMac at work, and it seems to work fine.  I'm actually pretty happy with it except for the built-in functions that I don't find at all useful.  I'm waiting to see if Topre come out with a Realforce that I can put Cherry-style keycaps on and that also works properly on a Mac; meanwhile, there are lots of other keyboards to try!

[opensecret]

When you wake up from sleep use your mouse to wake it then the keyboard should work. On my system (27' IMac - RF 87u) I can wake the computer with the keyboard but it does not work after that, if you wake it up with a mouse click it will work fine. I really don't know why but its a workaround. Other keyboards (non Apple) wont wake the computer at all.

Using the mouse to wake the computer is good advice -- it usually, but not always, works for me.  The only thing that works 100% of the time is reseating the usb connection. The issue isn't unique to Macs.  I have the issue same problem with a Windows PC and the Omnikey board on which I'm typing at the moment.  But I generally don't have the issue with more modern boards.  I've always figured it has something to do with the fact that the Omnikeys were designed before there was such a thing as usb and need a multi-cable setup to work. 

[benfrain]

So, considering a RealForce and wanted to check; is this still a problem with the latest firmware on OS X? Have also Tweeted @TOPRE_REALFORCE but as they are Japanese Twitter account I'm not sure how well that will go for clarification!

[mason]

So, considering a RealForce and wanted to check; is this still a problem with the latest firmware on OS X? Have also Tweeted @TOPRE_REALFORCE but as they are Japanese Twitter account I'm not sure how well that will go for clarification!

I'm on 10.13 High Sierra and waking the computer with the keyboard makes it unresponsive. However, wake by mouse works fine.

[Netbootz]

So, considering a RealForce and wanted to check; is this still a problem with the latest firmware on OS X? Have also Tweeted @TOPRE_REALFORCE but as they are Japanese Twitter account I'm not sure how well that will go for clarification!

I'm on 10.13 High Sierra and waking the computer with the keyboard makes it unresponsive. However, wake by mouse works fine.

Same issue with RealForce 87U + iMac (27-inch, Late 2012).

Keyboard can wake it, but won't function unless I unplug-replug it.  I'll try the mouse tap trick described if I remember.

[rowdy]

New iMac, macOS 10.12 Sierra, new RealForce 87UW - same issue.

Pressing a key to wake Mac does so, but the keyboard does not respond unless I unplug and replug it.

Wake the Mac with the mouse and the keyboard works fine.

I am used to it now, and always use the mouse to wake the Mac (except once when I accidentally pressed something on the keyboard while removing the keyboard dust cover).