Not to get all "tp" but..

[therecorder]

tp4tissue (in all sincerity)...

When a mechanical keyboard user recommends trying a mechanical keyboard (to a rubber dome user), the rubber dome user can follow the advice with an investment of about $100.  ErgoDox is a different story.  For example, I am not one who shies away from spending money on new keyboard, pointing device, or other computer related "adventures".  However, spending $500-$600 on an ErgoDox experiment is a bit more than I am willing to spend on any experiment (kit; assembly; keycaps; shipping; misc.).  Also, there are further monetary and non-monetary problems to consider, especially if I did get one and ended up worshiping it (as you seem to).


All I'm saying is that ErgoDox is not for everyone, and people deserve to know this.

That couldn't be further from the truth..

First off.. an Edx is only $270... you spend more than that on groceries...

Even young student kids can cut back to top ramen for a few weeks and acquire such paltry savings.


Second, it IS for everyone... the standard staggered qwerty keyboard fits NO ONE.... the ergodox, fits everyone with "adult sized hands"....

Show Image

Perhaps if you live in the States you can get away with $270, but if you live in Europe or perhaps in Israel (like I do), the postage and VAT pushes it up to an easy $500.  And, if you fall in love with it (like you think all will), what if you have more than 1 workstation to outfit (or need to travel with your keyboard)?  Or what if you have a spouse with whom you must share your keyboard, and perhaps does have small hands?   And, what if you are a teenager or in university student...  Even $270 is a large chunk of cash to gather for an experiment.

Again, I am not doubting your raves - I am doubting that ErgoDox is for everyone, and that you may be misguiding some people in some of the threads that you have been barraging with ErgoDox praise.

I'm in Central Europe. I paid only about $275 for the whole kit including keycaps, and then roughly $50 VAT. That isn't that much for people who type for living (or will do so for the rest of their lives)用robably except Indian spammers (you know, those who fill captchas and stuff) and Nigerian scammers.

Note that I'm a student.

What about assembly and shipping?

If you do all through hole, it will probably cost about ~$30 in supplies.

So, no soldering required???

[davkol]

tp4tissue (in all sincerity)...

When a mechanical keyboard user recommends trying a mechanical keyboard (to a rubber dome user), the rubber dome user can follow the advice with an investment of about $100.  ErgoDox is a different story.  For example, I am not one who shies away from spending money on new keyboard, pointing device, or other computer related "adventures".  However, spending $500-$600 on an ErgoDox experiment is a bit more than I am willing to spend on any experiment (kit; assembly; keycaps; shipping; misc.).  Also, there are further monetary and non-monetary problems to consider, especially if I did get one and ended up worshiping it (as you seem to).


All I'm saying is that ErgoDox is not for everyone, and people deserve to know this.

That couldn't be further from the truth..

First off.. an Edx is only $270... you spend more than that on groceries...

Even young student kids can cut back to top ramen for a few weeks and acquire such paltry savings.


Second, it IS for everyone... the standard staggered qwerty keyboard fits NO ONE.... the ergodox, fits everyone with "adult sized hands"....

Show Image

Perhaps if you live in the States you can get away with $270, but if you live in Europe or perhaps in Israel (like I do), the postage and VAT pushes it up to an easy $500.  And, if you fall in love with it (like you think all will), what if you have more than 1 workstation to outfit (or need to travel with your keyboard)?  Or what if you have a spouse with whom you must share your keyboard, and perhaps does have small hands?   And, what if you are a teenager or in university student...  Even $270 is a large chunk of cash to gather for an experiment.

Again, I am not doubting your raves - I am doubting that ErgoDox is for everyone, and that you may be misguiding some people in some of the threads that you have been barraging with ErgoDox praise.

I'm in Central Europe. I paid only about $275 for the whole kit including keycaps, and then roughly $50 VAT. That isn't that much for people who type for living (or will do so for the rest of their lives)用robably except Indian spammers (you know, those who fill captchas and stuff) and Nigerian scammers.

Note that I'm a student.

What about assembly and shipping?

Shipping is included in those ~275 USD.

Assembly is offered for $50 in the latest massdrops, then still $370 < $500 you mentioned. I already had a decent soldering station (because it's just useful), and if I didn't have one, I'd lend it from a friend. Solder is cheap.

[Thimplum]

tp4tissue (in all sincerity)...

When a mechanical keyboard user recommends trying a mechanical keyboard (to a rubber dome user), the rubber dome user can follow the advice with an investment of about $100.  ErgoDox is a different story.  For example, I am not one who shies away from spending money on new keyboard, pointing device, or other computer related "adventures".  However, spending $500-$600 on an ErgoDox experiment is a bit more than I am willing to spend on any experiment (kit; assembly; keycaps; shipping; misc.).  Also, there are further monetary and non-monetary problems to consider, especially if I did get one and ended up worshiping it (as you seem to).


All I'm saying is that ErgoDox is not for everyone, and people deserve to know this.

That couldn't be further from the truth..

First off.. an Edx is only $270... you spend more than that on groceries...

Even young student kids can cut back to top ramen for a few weeks and acquire such paltry savings.


Second, it IS for everyone... the standard staggered qwerty keyboard fits NO ONE.... the ergodox, fits everyone with "adult sized hands"....

Show Image

Perhaps if you live in the States you can get away with $270, but if you live in Europe or perhaps in Israel (like I do), the postage and VAT pushes it up to an easy $500.  And, if you fall in love with it (like you think all will), what if you have more than 1 workstation to outfit (or need to travel with your keyboard)?  Or what if you have a spouse with whom you must share your keyboard, and perhaps does have small hands?   And, what if you are a teenager or in university student...  Even $270 is a large chunk of cash to gather for an experiment.

Again, I am not doubting your raves - I am doubting that ErgoDox is for everyone, and that you may be misguiding some people in some of the threads that you have been barraging with ErgoDox praise.

I'm in Central Europe. I paid only about $275 for the whole kit including keycaps, and then roughly $50 VAT. That isn't that much for people who type for living (or will do so for the rest of their lives)用robably except Indian spammers (you know, those who fill captchas and stuff) and Nigerian scammers.

Note that I'm a student.

What about assembly and shipping?

If you do all through hole, it will probably cost about ~$30 in supplies.

So, no soldering required???

Soldering is really easy.

[tp4tissue]

tp4tissue (in all sincerity)...

When a mechanical keyboard user recommends trying a mechanical keyboard (to a rubber dome user), the rubber dome user can follow the advice with an investment of about $100.  ErgoDox is a different story.  For example, I am not one who shies away from spending money on new keyboard, pointing device, or other computer related "adventures".  However, spending $500-$600 on an ErgoDox experiment is a bit more than I am willing to spend on any experiment (kit; assembly; keycaps; shipping; misc.).  Also, there are further monetary and non-monetary problems to consider, especially if I did get one and ended up worshiping it (as you seem to).


All I'm saying is that ErgoDox is not for everyone, and people deserve to know this.

That couldn't be further from the truth..

First off.. an Edx is only $270... you spend more than that on groceries...

Even young student kids can cut back to top ramen for a few weeks and acquire such paltry savings.


Second, it IS for everyone... the standard staggered qwerty keyboard fits NO ONE.... the ergodox, fits everyone with "adult sized hands"....

Show Image

Perhaps if you live in the States you can get away with $270, but if you live in Europe or perhaps in Israel (like I do), the postage and VAT pushes it up to an easy $500.  And, if you fall in love with it (like you think all will), what if you have more than 1 workstation to outfit (or need to travel with your keyboard)?  Or what if you have a spouse with whom you must share your keyboard, and perhaps does have small hands?   And, what if you are a teenager or in university student...  Even $270 is a large chunk of cash to gather for an experiment.

Again, I am not doubting your raves - I am doubting that ErgoDox is for everyone, and that you may be misguiding some people in some of the threads that you have been barraging with ErgoDox praise.

I'm in Central Europe. I paid only about $275 for the whole kit including keycaps, and then roughly $50 VAT. That isn't that much for people who type for living (or will do so for the rest of their lives)用robably except Indian spammers (you know, those who fill captchas and stuff) and Nigerian scammers.

Note that I'm a student.

What about assembly and shipping?

If you do all through hole, it will probably cost about ~$30 in supplies.

So, no soldering required???

Soldering is really easy.

It's exactly like hot glue, except Hotter

[Thimplum]

tp4tissue (in all sincerity)...

When a mechanical keyboard user recommends trying a mechanical keyboard (to a rubber dome user), the rubber dome user can follow the advice with an investment of about $100.  ErgoDox is a different story.  For example, I am not one who shies away from spending money on new keyboard, pointing device, or other computer related "adventures".  However, spending $500-$600 on an ErgoDox experiment is a bit more than I am willing to spend on any experiment (kit; assembly; keycaps; shipping; misc.).  Also, there are further monetary and non-monetary problems to consider, especially if I did get one and ended up worshiping it (as you seem to).


All I'm saying is that ErgoDox is not for everyone, and people deserve to know this.

That couldn't be further from the truth..

First off.. an Edx is only $270... you spend more than that on groceries...

Even young student kids can cut back to top ramen for a few weeks and acquire such paltry savings.


Second, it IS for everyone... the standard staggered qwerty keyboard fits NO ONE.... the ergodox, fits everyone with "adult sized hands"....

Show Image

Perhaps if you live in the States you can get away with $270, but if you live in Europe or perhaps in Israel (like I do), the postage and VAT pushes it up to an easy $500.  And, if you fall in love with it (like you think all will), what if you have more than 1 workstation to outfit (or need to travel with your keyboard)?  Or what if you have a spouse with whom you must share your keyboard, and perhaps does have small hands?   And, what if you are a teenager or in university student...  Even $270 is a large chunk of cash to gather for an experiment.

Again, I am not doubting your raves - I am doubting that ErgoDox is for everyone, and that you may be misguiding some people in some of the threads that you have been barraging with ErgoDox praise.

I'm in Central Europe. I paid only about $275 for the whole kit including keycaps, and then roughly $50 VAT. That isn't that much for people who type for living (or will do so for the rest of their lives)用robably except Indian spammers (you know, those who fill captchas and stuff) and Nigerian scammers.

Note that I'm a student.

What about assembly and shipping?

If you do all through hole, it will probably cost about ~$30 in supplies.

So, no soldering required???

Soldering is really easy.

It's exactly like hot glue, except Hotter

Show Image

Naw

It's more like hole glue that automatically moves itself to where it's supposed to be if you get it within ~2mm of where it should be.

[MOZ]

I am in India and I assembled mine for less than $200 including all supplies for soldering, except keycaps.

[Thimplum]

I am in India and I assembled mine for less than $200 including all supplies for soldering, except keycaps.

How much did the caps cost? You have zinc, so that might be a bit expensive.

[ComradeSniper]

Can you customize the layout on the edox? I'm starting to think I need one, but I hit the spacebar solely with my left thumb and I think that might be a hard habit to grow out of. Could I swap backspace and spacebar?

[therecorder]

Really sorry that some people have chosen to read what they want to read, and do math that equals what they want it to equal.  But, I will try once more.  Someone fill in the blanks and the give me a total:

KIT  (MASSDROP) =
ASSEMBLY (MASSDROP) =
KEYCAPS (MASSDROP) =
SHIPPING/ CUSTOMS FEES (NOT INCLUDING VAT) = $95 ($60 + $35) (MINIMUMS)
VAT = 18% OF TOTAL OF FIRST 3 ITEMS =

For those who doubt my shipping figure (to Israel), here is my cost for my recent Elite order:

Order Date: 2013/09/01
Order Details:

1 x XF0100KT4 Lettered Keycaps for Topre Realforce 87U/104U (Yellow) @ $95.00 Set
1 x XF0100KT5 Lettered Keycaps for Topre Realforce 87U/104U (Orange) @ $95.00 Set
1 x SE170S Realforce 87U Tenkeyless Silent (Black/Dark Gray) @ $250.00 Each

Subtotal: 440.00
Tax: 0.00 (0.00%)
Shipping: 75.66 (FedEx Intl. Economy)

Total: $515.66 (USD), Payment method: PayPal

[davkol]

I paid
$199 for the kit;
$37 (or so) for keycaps;
$20 + $13 for shipping (it might be different nowadays);
1100 CZK handling fee and VAT (computer parts/accessories are customs-free in Czechia; the VAT thing is a mess, they actually asked me to pay only 20 % of $99 at first, which didn't make any sense; the handling fee is optional, you can do all the work by yourself).

I've read the full assembly is like $50 in the latest massdrop.

[therecorder]

I paid
$199 for the kit;
$37 (or so) for keycaps;
$20 + $13 for shipping (it might be different nowadays);
1100 CZK handling fee and VAT (computer parts/accessories are customs-free in Czechia; the VAT thing is a mess, they actually asked me to pay only 20 % of $99 at first, which didn't make any sense; the handling fee is optional, you can do all the work by yourself).

I've read the full assembly is like $50 in the latest massdrop.

I want to know what it will cost "me", not you.  I would require what I listed above.

[MOZ]

This was for my ErgoDox, which I built by sourcing parts myself rather than getting the ErgoDox kit from massdrop:

- PCB (from Massdrop): $48
- Case (Acrylic locally cut): $20
- Cover (Acrylic locally cut): $16
- Teensy (Proxy from US): $20
- Switches (Harvested from TVS Gold): $14
- Nuts/Washers/Bolts (Bought locally): $2
- Cables/Sleeving/Connectors/Electrical components (Miniusb connector + TRRS from digikey proxied, cable sleeving from DealExtreme, resistor/diode/led/io extender/usb cable/header pins locally): $10
- Soldering station + 1lb 63/37 solder + 100g 60/40 solder + desoldering iron + flux + cheap multimeter + brass brush + brass wool with stand + misc soldering tips + toothbrushes for cleaning + IPA + Petrol + Jackly toolkit + 50pc Screwdriver toolkit + other small stuff I can't even remember = $25

=================
Total: $155
=================

This includes shipping for stuff I got from abroad as well as taxes and customs. Now, if you include standard keycap sets available online, you could add another $50. I understand, prices vary vastly by country to country, however $500 is just ridiculous.

PS. I am not an Indian spammer filling out captchas and stuff

[therecorder]

This was for my ErgoDox, which I built by sourcing parts myself rather than getting the ErgoDox kit from massdrop:

- PCB (from Massdrop): $48
- Case (Acrylic locally cut): $20
- Cover (Acrylic locally cut): $16
- Teensy (Proxy from US): $20
- Switches (Harvested from TVS Gold): $14
- Nuts/Washers/Bolts (Bought locally): $2
- Cables/Sleeving/Connectors/Electrical components (Miniusb connector + TRRS from digikey proxied, cable sleeving from DealExtreme, resistor/diode/led/io extender/usb cable/header pins locally): $10
- Soldering station + 1lb 63/37 solder + 100g 60/40 solder + desoldering iron + flux + cheap multimeter + brass brush + brass wool with stand + misc soldering tips + toothbrushes for cleaning + IPA + Petrol + Jackly toolkit + 50pc Screwdriver toolkit + other small stuff I can't even remember = $25

=================
Total: $155
=================

This includes shipping for stuff I got from abroad as well as taxes and customs. Now, if you include standard keycap sets available online, you could add another $50. I understand, prices vary vastly by country to country, however $500 is just ridiculous.

PS. I am not an Indian spammer filling out captchas and stuff

Again, I want to know what it will cost "me", not you.  I would require what I listed above.

[MOZ]

Noone knows what it will cost "you", they know what it cost them.

You have to figure out how much it will cost you, find out pricing for components in you local area, find cheaper shipping methods, methods to dodge custom, learn soldering and other skills you might need.

My ErgoDox at the cheap price didn't build itself, nor did I know anything about soldering before I built it, I researched, learnt, practiced and was patient. It took 2 complete months, but I was able to build a beautiful piece of computer peripheral at the bare minimum cost possible. And it even worked on the first try itself. Some items took upto 20 days to arrive, because I opted for cheaper shipping, as keeping low cost was the number one priority. I made multiple trips to areas of my city I never knew even existed, spent countless hours online searching for vendors, reading stuff on GeekHack, watching videos and what not. Heck, I even learnt CorelDraw just to edit keyboard drawings, and now I am pretty good at it.

For me, ErgoDox experience, was not just about getting or making a great keybaord, but the amount of knowledge and skills I gained transcend the end product.

[Thimplum]

Well said, MOZ.

[tp4tissue]

Noone knows what it will cost "you", they know what it cost them.

You have to figure out how much it will cost you, find out pricing for components in you local area, find cheaper shipping methods, methods to dodge custom, learn soldering and other skills you might need.

My ErgoDox at the cheap price didn't build itself, nor did I know anything about soldering before I built it, I researched, learnt, practiced and was patient. It took 2 complete months, but I was able to build a beautiful piece of computer peripheral at the bare minimum cost possible. And it even worked on the first try itself. Some items took upto 20 days to arrive, because I opted for cheaper shipping, as keeping low cost was the number one priority. I made multiple trips to areas of my city I never knew even existed, spent countless hours online searching for vendors, reading stuff on GeekHack, watching videos and what not. Heck, I even learnt CorelDraw just to edit keyboard drawings, and now I am pretty good at it.

For me, ErgoDox experience, was not just about getting or making a great keybaord, but the amount of knowledge and skills I gained transcend the end product.

India is awesome that you can get those kind of prices.

[therecorder]

Really sorry that some people have chosen to read what they want to read, and do math that equals what they want it to equal.  But, I will try once more.  Someone fill in the blanks and the give me a total:

KIT  (MASSDROP) = $200
ASSEMBLY (MASSDROP) = $50
KEYCAPS (MASSDROP) = $45
SHIPPING/ CUSTOMS FEES (NOT INCLUDING VAT) = $95 ($60 + $35) (MINIMUMS)
VAT = 18% OF TOTAL OF FIRST 3 ITEMS = $295 X .18 = $53

For those who doubt my shipping figure (to Israel), here is my cost for my recent Elite order:

Order Date: 2013/09/01
Order Details:

1 x XF0100KT4 Lettered Keycaps for Topre Realforce 87U/104U (Yellow) @ $95.00 Set
1 x XF0100KT5 Lettered Keycaps for Topre Realforce 87U/104U (Orange) @ $95.00 Set
1 x SE170S Realforce 87U Tenkeyless Silent (Black/Dark Gray) @ $250.00 Each

Subtotal: 440.00
Tax: 0.00 (0.00%)
Shipping: 75.66 (FedEx Intl. Economy)

Total: $515.66 (USD), Payment method: PayPal

So what everyone is saying is that if I "need" to get an ErgoDox the above way, it will cost me approximately $443.

[MOZ]

I'm not going to feed the troll anymore, if you read my post sincerely and clearly, youd know what you need.

BTW, why have you put shipping as $60 + $35? For the keycaps, Massdrop lists shipping as $8.11 to Israel. I don't know how much it is for the ErgoDox, but IIRC, it was $20.

[Grim Fandango]

Interesting.

I am very much like you OP. Even when I type a lot and type properly, I kind of plateau at a comfortable 80 WPM. After that I never got any faster. My sister on the other hand spends less time behind the PC (nowadays, did not used to be like that in her "MSN days"), and types much faster than me. I asked her to check her speed at that 10fastfingers website and she got close to 100 WPM on first try, on my mechanical keyboard that she never uses.

That said, I am quite comfortable at my 80 WPM. I never feel like my typing speed limits me in any way. With anything over 60 WPM you are doing about a word per second, which is fast enough for my purposes. I find myself pausing my typing to think, rather than waiting for the sentence to fully typed so I can move on to the next one. Maybe that is part of the reason I never get any faster;

[therecorder]

I'm not going to feed the troll anymore, if you read my post sincerely and clearly, youd know what you need.

BTW, why have you put shipping as $60 + $35? For the keycaps, Massdrop lists shipping as $8.11 to Israel. I don't know how much it is for the ErgoDox, but IIRC, it was $20.

If you were familiar with me, as I think Daerid and tp4tissue are, and you reread this thread. you will realize that I am not trolling, but have been seeking to address a problem that I saw.

[MOZ]

I'm not going to feed the troll anymore, if you read my post sincerely and clearly, youd know what you need.

BTW, why have you put shipping as $60 + $35? For the keycaps, Massdrop lists shipping as $8.11 to Israel. I don't know how much it is for the ErgoDox, but IIRC, it was $20.

If you were familiar with me, as I think Daerid and tp4tissue are, and you reread this thread. you will realize that I am not trolling, but have been seeking to address a problem that I saw.

And the wrong shipping prices?

[Hellmark]

I'm kinda in the same boat. I average about 80. Used to be faster till I mangled my right arm in a workplace accident. Considering I had no use of my arm for over a year, I consider 80 to not be bad.

[therecorder]

I'm not going to feed the troll anymore, if you read my post sincerely and clearly, youd know what you need.

BTW, why have you put shipping as $60 + $35? For the keycaps, Massdrop lists shipping as $8.11 to Israel. I don't know how much it is for the ErgoDox, but IIRC, it was $20.

If you were familiar with me, as I think Daerid and tp4tissue are, and you reread this thread. you will realize that I am not trolling, but have been seeking to address a problem that I saw.

And the wrong shipping prices?

The shipping is for shipping the finished keyboard from the USA to Israel...  I didn't even include the cost of shipping the keycaps.

[MOZ]

I'm not going to feed the troll anymore, if you read my post sincerely and clearly, youd know what you need.

BTW, why have you put shipping as $60 + $35? For the keycaps, Massdrop lists shipping as $8.11 to Israel. I don't know how much it is for the ErgoDox, but IIRC, it was $20.

If you were familiar with me, as I think Daerid and tp4tissue are, and you reread this thread. you will realize that I am not trolling, but have been seeking to address a problem that I saw.

And the wrong shipping prices?

The shipping is for shipping the finished keyboard from the USA to Israel...  I didn't even include the cost of shipping the keycaps.

I reallt doubt it is $95, maybe someone who was ordered internationally can correct me.

[SpAmRaY]

I'm not going to feed the troll anymore, if you read my post sincerely and clearly, youd know what you need.

BTW, why have you put shipping as $60 + $35? For the keycaps, Massdrop lists shipping as $8.11 to Israel. I don't know how much it is for the ErgoDox, but IIRC, it was $20.

If you were familiar with me, as I think Daerid and tp4tissue are, and you reread this thread. you will realize that I am not trolling, but have been seeking to address a problem that I saw.

And the wrong shipping prices?

The shipping is for shipping the finished keyboard from the USA to Israel...  I didn't even include the cost of shipping the keycaps.

I reallt doubt it is $95, maybe someone who was ordered internationally can correct me.

He is combining shipping + customs fees I believe to get that number, so its possible.

[therecorder]

I'm not going to feed the troll anymore, if you read my post sincerely and clearly, youd know what you need.

BTW, why have you put shipping as $60 + $35? For the keycaps, Massdrop lists shipping as $8.11 to Israel. I don't know how much it is for the ErgoDox, but IIRC, it was $20.

If you were familiar with me, as I think Daerid and tp4tissue are, and you reread this thread. you will realize that I am not trolling, but have been seeking to address a problem that I saw.

And the wrong shipping prices?

The shipping is for shipping the finished keyboard from the USA to Israel...  I didn't even include the cost of shipping the keycaps.

I reallt doubt it is $95, maybe someone who was ordered internationally can correct me.

That's why I included my last bill from Elite Keyboards (above).  To remove any doubts about my figures.

[daerid]

I personally think the ErgoDox is a bit expensive for the average user if you add on the price of assembly. However, one of the best and most rewarding aspects of the ErgoDox is assembling it. Soldering isn't hard at all... takes a couple hours to put it together. Throw on a movie in the background and you'll be done before you know it.

Also, the point about typing for a living is a valid one. I support my family (wife and son) on my income alone, and that income is made from typing all day long (software dev). I owe it to myself and my family to invest in the best possible tools available for my job.

I spent about $270 on each of my ErgoDox kits (I live in the US so got free shipping from MassDrop). It took about 2~2.5 hours each to put together. I would have paid double for them just to gain the experience of putting it together, not to mention the strain relief I've received on my fingers (that I didn't even know I had).

[Thimplum]

I bet that pressing that C key with the proper finger is a lot better. On staggered qwerty it's no fun.

[therecorder]

I personally think the ErgoDox is a bit too expensive if you add on the price of assembly. I prefer to assemble my own boards, and seriously, soldering isn't hard at all... takes a couple hours to put it together. Throw on a movie in the background and you'll be done before you know it.

I appreciate your viewpoints, but unfortunately I'll be 66 next month, am partially disabled, and soldering and assembly work is a bit beyond my capabilities.  And, there are many other keyboard lovers/addicts who, for various other reasons, find soldering and assembly a "no go".

[therecorder]

Just found this review.  Didn't know if anyone had seen it, so I thought it would be worth linking it.  The review it helpful, and the 5 pages of comments seem to be something anyone contemplating an ErgoDox purchase should read.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7245/ergodox-review-an-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard-via-massdrop/3

[davkol]

I paid
$199 for the kit;
$37 (or so) for keycaps;
$20 + $13 for shipping (it might be different nowadays);
1100 CZK handling fee and VAT (computer parts/accessories are customs-free in Czechia; the VAT thing is a mess, they actually asked me to pay only 20 % of $99 at first, which didn't make any sense; the handling fee is optional, you can do all the work by yourself).

I've read the full assembly is like $50 in the latest massdrop.

I want to know what it will cost "me", not you.  I would require what I listed above.

Do I look like I have a crystal ball?

[mauri]

Well do you?

[davkol]

Nope.

[tp4tissue]

I personally think the ErgoDox is a bit expensive for the average user if you add on the price of assembly. However, one of the best and most rewarding aspects of the ErgoDox is assembling it. Soldering isn't hard at all... takes a couple hours to put it together. Throw on a movie in the background and you'll be done before you know it.

Also, the point about typing for a living is a valid one. I support my family (wife and son) on my income alone, and that income is made from typing all day long (software dev). I owe it to myself and my family to invest in the best possible tools available for my job.

I spent about $270 on each of my ErgoDox kits (I live in the US so got free shipping from MassDrop). It took about 2~2.5 hours each to put together. I would have paid double for them just to gain the experience of putting it together, not to mention the strain relief I've received on my fingers (that I didn't even know I had).

This sounds highly rehearsed, seems like you must've used this quote/rationale more than once to convince somebody, somebody female...

[Air tree]

I personally think the ErgoDox is a bit expensive for the average user if you add on the price of assembly. However, one of the best and most rewarding aspects of the ErgoDox is assembling it. Soldering isn't hard at all... takes a couple hours to put it together. Throw on a movie in the background and you'll be done before you know it.

Also, the point about typing for a living is a valid one. I support my family (wife and son) on my income alone, and that income is made from typing all day long (software dev). I owe it to myself and my family to invest in the best possible tools available for my job.

I spent about $270 on each of my ErgoDox kits (I live in the US so got free shipping from MassDrop). It took about 2~2.5 hours each to put together. I would have paid double for them just to gain the experience of putting it together, not to mention the strain relief I've received on my fingers (that I didn't even know I had).

This sounds highly rehearsed, seems like you must've used this quote/rationale more than once to convince somebody, somebody female...

Show Image

I would like to go back in time to see what you where like when you didn't have a ergodox...

[Larken]

Just found this review.  Didn't know if anyone had seen it, so I thought it would be worth linking it.  The review it helpful, and the 5 pages of comments seem to be something anyone contemplating an ErgoDox purchase should read.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7245/ergodox-review-an-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard-via-massdrop/3

I read through the article and the comments. unfortunately, most of the commentors are people who dismiss the idea before even trying one, and the only ones worth looking at are people who actually own the thing - boli, findecanor and one other commentor - none who are actually trolling the forums like tp4tissue is. Findecanor actually voiced his opinion that the ergodox design is slightly flawed before on geekhack, and yet he doesn't dismiss the benefits of the dox outright either.

The review is fair, yes. People should read it, especially if they aren't sure about getting one. I think its a great keyboard, but I agree that its not for everyone. Only those willing to adapt should get it. Otherwise it's a pointless purchase. People should probably ignore tp4's incessant trolling about the keyboard. I know I do.

On the cost
I've tried ordering from EK before. I don't know how much would ordering one ergodox kit from massdrop would cost you, but EK uses a shipping service that is not cheap. Anything I get from them (I'm international) is about 60 usd in shipping while I was only charged 20usd for shipping during the massdrop buy. And from your receipt, it appears that you didn't get charged taxes from buying from EK? Any reason that VAT is added for the ergodox? No offense meant, but the inconsistency in calculating the costs is one thing I don't get.

I'd say you're looking at sub 400 including full assembly and caps. Nearer to 300 if you aren't charged with heavy customs taxes, but it appears that only you can estimate what that cost really is.

[vun]

On the cost
I've tried ordering from EK before. I don't know how much would ordering one ergodox kit from massdrop would cost you, but EK uses a shipping service that is not cheap. Anything I get from them (I'm international) is about 60 usd in shipping while I was only charged 20usd for shipping during the massdrop buy. And from your receipt, it appears that you didn't get charged taxes from buying from EK? Any reason that VAT is added for the ergodox? No offense meant, but the inconsistency in calculating the costs is one thing I don't get.

I'd say you're looking at sub 400 including full assembly and caps. Nearer to 300 if you aren't charged with heavy customs taxes, but it appears that only you can estimate what that cost really is.

Ditto on the shipping cost, usually shipping from the US is 50 USD for pretty much anything larger than a letter, and while I can't recall the exact shipping cost of my eDox, it was about 20 USD I think. Certainly not 50.
Although I did have to pay about 50 USD equiv in vat and whatnot, so bleh.

Massdrop seems to generally have cheaper shipping than most.

[therecorder]

On the cost
I've tried ordering from EK before. I don't know how much would ordering one ergodox kit from massdrop would cost you, but EK uses a shipping service that is not cheap. Anything I get from them (I'm international) is about 60 usd in shipping while I was only charged 20usd for shipping during the massdrop buy. And from your receipt, it appears that you didn't get charged taxes from buying from EK? Any reason that VAT is added for the ergodox? No offense meant, but the inconsistency in calculating the costs is one thing I don't get.

I'd say you're looking at sub 400 including full assembly and caps. Nearer to 300 if you aren't charged with heavy customs taxes, but it appears that only you can estimate what that cost really is.

Ditto on the shipping cost, usually shipping from the US is 50 USD for pretty much anything larger than a letter, and while I can't recall the exact shipping cost of my eDox, it was about 20 USD I think. Certainly not 50.
Although I did have to pay about 50 USD equiv in vat and whatnot, so bleh.

Massdrop seems to generally have cheaper shipping than most.

VAT is added by the Israeli government when it gets to Israel.  FedEx pays it, and then charges me for it (plus the Customs fees of approximately $35).  Mass drop will not be shipping to me - The assembler will be shipping it to me.  Also, shipping to Israel is much more expensive than shipping to Europe.  I could have the assembler ship it USPS Priority Mail, and save some money, but it's chancy and would take about a month to get here.

Here is an example of a USPS Priority Mail shipment from mechanicalkeyboards.com

Ducky DK9008 Shine II White LED Backlit Mechanical Keyboard (Clear Cherry MX)

   1    $143.00    $143.00
Subtotal:    $143.00
Shipping:    $50.40
Tax:    $0.00
Total:    $193.40

[Larken]

On the cost
I've tried ordering from EK before. I don't know how much would ordering one ergodox kit from massdrop would cost you, but EK uses a shipping service that is not cheap. Anything I get from them (I'm international) is about 60 usd in shipping while I was only charged 20usd for shipping during the massdrop buy. And from your receipt, it appears that you didn't get charged taxes from buying from EK? Any reason that VAT is added for the ergodox? No offense meant, but the inconsistency in calculating the costs is one thing I don't get.

I'd say you're looking at sub 400 including full assembly and caps. Nearer to 300 if you aren't charged with heavy customs taxes, but it appears that only you can estimate what that cost really is.

Ditto on the shipping cost, usually shipping from the US is 50 USD for pretty much anything larger than a letter, and while I can't recall the exact shipping cost of my eDox, it was about 20 USD I think. Certainly not 50.
Although I did have to pay about 50 USD equiv in vat and whatnot, so bleh.

Massdrop seems to generally have cheaper shipping than most.

VAT is added by the Israeli government when it gets to Israel.  FedEx pays it, and then charges me for it (plus the Customs fees of approximately $35).  Mass drop will not be shipping to me - The assembler will be shipping it to me.  Also, shipping to Israel is much more expensive than shipping to Europe.  I could have the assembler ship it USPS Priority Mail, and save some money, but it's chancy and would take about a month to get here.

Here is an example of a USPS Priority Mail shipment from mechanicalkeyboards.com

Ducky DK9008 Shine II White LED Backlit Mechanical Keyboard (Clear Cherry MX)

   1    $143.00    $143.00
Subtotal:    $143.00
Shipping:    $50.40
Tax:    $0.00
Total:    $193.40

As far as I know - the last round had assembly offered by massdrop. Even if it was an external assembler - they (meaning massdrop) handle the shipping back and forth for the fee they charge. Which means that if you pay the assembly fee and massdrop's shipping fee, there should be no additional charges on shipping from your assembler - because it doesn't work this way anymore.

Shipping wise isn't done from massdrop (free) > your assembler (additional USPS) > you anymore. You could check with massdrop, but I believe you aren't actually charged anything else other than the assembly fee of 50 and international shipping of 20, as massdrop makes the arrangements, and included all the fees within its charges.

I guess their experience with theprofoist on the first round taught them better than to do the above again.

So your above concern doesn't really apply, in so far as additional charges go.

So on your ducky, I'm assuming you paid 193.40? Or was it closer to 193.4 + VAT? I'm still confused about this, but as of now, your calculations for a 440-500 usd ergodox seem to be based on incorrect assumptions.

A kit with assembly, caps would run you about 200+45+50. Add shipping for 20. Going by your earlier post - VAT appears to be 53. That's about 360+. 

For your reference, this is taken from the ergodox massdrop page - "Shipping to the USA is free. Shipping to Canada will be $6 and shipping anywhere else in the world will be $20."

I'm not here to argue over your shipping costs - but I think you have the wrong idea of how the order fulfillment works for the ergodox kit in the recent rounds. And as for how massdrop can offer that kind of shipping costs - let me say that I am too, surprised. A box that size would normally run me quite a bit more if I opt for my usual service, in the regions of 35usd or so.

[therecorder]

Larken...

"So on your ducky, I'm assuming you paid 193.40? Or was it closer to 193.4 + VAT? I'm still confused about this, but as of now, your calculations for a 440-500 usd ergodox seem to be based on incorrect assumptions."

Again, VAT doesn't get charged until it reaches Israel.  In the Duchy case I paid the Israeli government (at the Post Office) $143 X .18 = $25.74 before they would give me the package.  It took about 3-4 weeks to get to me, but at least I didn't have to pay FedEx, EMS, or DSL $35+ to get it out of Customs.

But, I just found this on https://www.massdrop.com/faq

Do you ship internationally?

Yes. We do everything that we can to support shipping to all countries. Keep in mind that you might have to pay more for shipping if you live outside of the United States, and you値l be responsible for any additional customs fees, taxes, or duties. Also, bear in mind that the vast majority of our products are shipped using the US Postal Service (or USPS, not to be confused with UPS), and the tracking numbers for these shipments only work while the shipment is inside the US. The last location listed on an international order's tracking record is usually Los Angeles, Chicago, or Jamaica, New York, as these are the places through which all USPS packages leave the USA."

Glad I found this because this is not Priority Mail, would have no tracking number here in Israel, and would take at least a month and a half to get to me (if it got to me at all).  This is not the way anyone has things shipped here...  So I guess Massdrop is a "no-go" for me.

[SpAmRaY]

Larken...

"So on your ducky, I'm assuming you paid 193.40? Or was it closer to 193.4 + VAT? I'm still confused about this, but as of now, your calculations for a 440-500 usd ergodox seem to be based on incorrect assumptions."

Again, VAT doesn't get charged until it reaches Israel.  In the Duchy case I paid the Israeli government (at the Post Office) $143 X .18 = $25.74 before they would give me the package.  It took about 3-4 weeks to get to me, but at least I didn't have to pay FedEx, EMS, or DSL $35+ to get it out of Customs.

But, I just found this on https://www.massdrop.com/faq

Do you ship internationally?

Yes. We do everything that we can to support shipping to all countries. Keep in mind that you might have to pay more for shipping if you live outside of the United States, and you値l be responsible for any additional customs fees, taxes, or duties. Also, bear in mind that the vast majority of our products are shipped using the US Postal Service (or USPS, not to be confused with UPS), and the tracking numbers for these shipments only work while the shipment is inside the US. The last location listed on an international order's tracking record is usually Los Angeles, Chicago, or Jamaica, New York, as these are the places through which all USPS packages leave the USA."

Glad I found this because this is not Priority Mail, would have no tracking number here in Israel, and would take at least a month and a half to get to me (if it got to me at all).  This is not the way anyone has things shipped here...  So I guess Massdrop is a "no-go" for me.

Would it help if someone if you had it shipped to the USA and had someone send it to you and mark as a gift?

[Larken]

But, I just found this on https://www.massdrop.com/faq

Do you ship internationally?

Yes. We do everything that we can to support shipping to all countries. Keep in mind that you might have to pay more for shipping if you live outside of the United States, and you値l be responsible for any additional customs fees, taxes, or duties. Also, bear in mind that the vast majority of our products are shipped using the US Postal Service (or USPS, not to be confused with UPS), and the tracking numbers for these shipments only work while the shipment is inside the US. The last location listed on an international order's tracking record is usually Los Angeles, Chicago, or Jamaica, New York, as these are the places through which all USPS packages leave the USA."

Glad I found this because this is not Priority Mail, would have no tracking number here in Israel, and would take at least a month and a half to get to me (if it got to me at all).  This is not the way anyone has things shipped here...  So I guess Massdrop is a "no-go" for me.

Then it appears that my estimate of 360 is actually a more correct estimate, isn't it? VAT is included in, but customs doesn't apply since it's not EMS, FEDEX or DSL, according to what you say.

I have had bad experiences using usps priority mail, some packages taking more than 4 weeks to reach me, so I understand your concerns. But as a counter note, I have dealt with massdrop on several items since the ergodox - and while there is no tracking - all of the items shipped from them arrived at my place in less than two weeks. In my experience, massdrop has pretty good service, and they will look to correct any snafus that actually happen, without much hassle or any cost to you. If you worry about the shipment being lost, you might even contact the massdrop service staff and see if you could pay extra for a different shipping method.

But it seems that you've reached a definite opinion about this, and that's fine. I have no incentive, or any wish to persuade you otherwise.

But as far as ergonomic boards on the market go, you should note that its about par for the course. The Kinesis Advantage is 299, and in this case, I can tell you they do use the expensive shipping methods that you are so used to. So does the TECK - I believe in this case, shipment to Israel would be about 80 usd. In these two cases, yes, an ergonomic board is going to cost you more than 400 to get.

From your receipts, it is more than obvious that you are willing to pay for your peripherals. Thus I am inclined to conclude that you simply don't believe that the purchase is worth it, and that's fine. I agree that the ergodox isn't for everyone. But it does seem that you're grasping at concerns that stem from a standpoint that is slanted against getting the ergodox.

[therecorder]

Larken...

"So on your ducky, I'm assuming you paid 193.40? Or was it closer to 193.4 + VAT? I'm still confused about this, but as of now, your calculations for a 440-500 usd ergodox seem to be based on incorrect assumptions."

Again, VAT doesn't get charged until it reaches Israel.  In the Duchy case I paid the Israeli government (at the Post Office) $143 X .18 = $25.74 before they would give me the package.  It took about 3-4 weeks to get to me, but at least I didn't have to pay FedEx, EMS, or DSL $35+ to get it out of Customs.

But, I just found this on https://www.massdrop.com/faq

Do you ship internationally?

Yes. We do everything that we can to support shipping to all countries. Keep in mind that you might have to pay more for shipping if you live outside of the United States, and you値l be responsible for any additional customs fees, taxes, or duties. Also, bear in mind that the vast majority of our products are shipped using the US Postal Service (or USPS, not to be confused with UPS), and the tracking numbers for these shipments only work while the shipment is inside the US. The last location listed on an international order's tracking record is usually Los Angeles, Chicago, or Jamaica, New York, as these are the places through which all USPS packages leave the USA."

Glad I found this because this is not Priority Mail, would have no tracking number here in Israel, and would take at least a month and a half to get to me (if it got to me at all).  This is not the way anyone has things shipped here...  So I guess Massdrop is a "no-go" for me.

Would it help if someone if you had it shipped to the USA and had someone send it to you and mark as a gift?

Tricks that usually work in most of the rest if the world, ususally end up failing (or worse) here in Israel.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Israels-outrageous-customs-and-tax-authority-309116

[therecorder]

Larken...

I do appreciate the time you are taking to give me assistance.  Truthfully, for me, it is not the money nor the ErgoDox that seems to have stopped me.  It's all the hassles of getting it here, and the possibilities of further hassles should I have further problems after it has gotten to me (even a bad contact).  Mass produced boards from dealers are warrenteed and fairly straight forward when something is or goes wrong.  The ErgoDox is another story.

Again, thank you (and everyone else) for all your help and patience.

[daerid]

This sounds highly rehearsed, seems like you must've used this quote/rationale more than once to convince somebody, somebody female...

Show Image

lol... it does doesn't it. But one of the advantages of making all the money is I don't have to do that. I get to decide what I buy without having to explain myself :)

[Gunni]

Sorry if I've missed this, but what program/website is recommended to test your WPM?

When using typingtest.com my highest was 68. Any tips on how to improve? Is there any trainers or something to help me better my score?

Also, is there a thread dedicated to posting your WPM? I'd be interested to see what most people get.

Cheers.

[tp4tissue]

Sorry if I've missed this, but what program/website is recommended to test your WPM?

When using typingtest.com my highest was 68. Any tips on how to improve? Is there any trainers or something to help me better my score?

Also, is there a thread dedicated to posting your WPM? I'd be interested to see what most people get.

Cheers.

for spacing / rhythm practice, use 10fastfingers advance mode. you have to sign up to play advance mode.

There is also freestyle mode, under practice mode, which is M0Re advanced than advanced mode.


for typing longer chains of "sentences" the only site is typeracer... but honestly I don't recommend typeracer, because it's too slow. You have to wait..


the Fastest way to learn to type sentences is just picking up a book, and type it out.

[ComradeSniper]

Can you customize the layout on the edox? I'm starting to think I need one, but I hit the spacebar solely with my left thumb and I think that might be a hard habit to grow out of. Could I swap backspace and spacebar?

[daerid]

You can program the layout to be whatever you want. It is 100% customizable.

[ComradeSniper]

Awesome, I like that a lot.