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Offline microsoft windows

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Worst Mouse Ever
« on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 11:07:27 »
What would you say is the worst/least ergonomic computer monse you have used? I'd pin the crown on the Apple "hockey puck" mouse and its successors:

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Offline Photekq

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 11:08:04 »
Anything made by Microsoft.
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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 11:11:39 »
All biases aside, I've got to say that Microsoft actually made pretty good mice when compared to other computer-related companies. They at least tried to make them ergonomic.
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Offline vun

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:20:15 »
All biases aside, I've got to say that Microsoft actually made pretty good mice when compared to other computer-related companies. They at least tried to make them ergonomic.

They did, the IME and WMO are fantastic mice, but other than that they're pretty meh.
 
Worst mouse I've used has to be the old magicmouse, followed by the G700s.
Magicmouse requires little explanation, although some might wonder about the G700s; basically it was too heavy, all the weight was in the back while the sensor was in the front, and it did not give me a good enough grip to lift it easily and securely. I absolutely loved all the extra buttons on it, they're brilliantly designed, but for low sens gaming it was incredibly uncomfortable bordering on unusable.

Edit;
Oh is it mighty mouse? Eh, either way, Apple mice are ****. Easily worst. As davkol said below, the tiny trackball isn't a bad idea, but I always found it a bit fiddly in use.
Specially old school ones where it's all gunked up and doesn't work properly.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 September 2013, 16:49:41 by vun »

Offline davkol

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 16:43:26 »
I have to agree, it's the Mighty Mouse (and the previous generation as well, but I haven't used it almost at all). Its scrolling trackball is awesome but that's it. Everything else sucks. Sticky finish, low-sensitivity sensor (dunno who had this idea to pair this mouse with a 30" screen), weird side buttons, too short cable...

...only the glowing $2 mouse bought at DX.com comes close. It was probably the only mouse that literally fell apart in my hands.

Offline Elrick

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 20:03:59 »
Okay here is my list of the absolute WORSE rodents that have ever been made/sold and unfortunately used, by ME;

1) Vertical 3 Mouse, designed with no form or function in mind other than to present something as different, compared to all other rodents currently available.  Uncomfortable to use and operate and you end up developing a whole lot of pain in the arm further creating misery when used over a long time.  This was thrown in the bin, never to cause pain again to any other poor soul again.

2) Apple Hockey Puck Mouse.  Basically when I was younger and I loved Apple as a kid because they created such cool looking computers with different hardware, I was like everyone else at the time, fell in love with their propaganda.  Because I was young and naive you believe in their crap, but the hockey puck rodent was atrocious, especially for me who had larger hands hence trying to control that tiny mouse wasn't easy.  But what made it even worse was it only came with a single ball and that clogged consistently when used.  In the end I got so mad with it I unplugged it from the iMac and smashed it with my boot on the floor because it didn't need to torture anyone else anymore.

3) Razer Copperhead.  Had a horrible shape which I never could get use to plus it had an average sensor - nothing special there. Won't let me play at low sensitivity because of it's ability to skip around the desktop uncontrollably.  They never fixed it with any firmware upgrade hence my immense dislike of Razer and it's failure to fix their own problems.

4) DA 2013, well this certainly just highlights how cheap they have gotten with the construction of their latest model.  The Copperhead was made solid with a very firm body that never squeaked or made a sound when you used the mouse.  But this latest DA2013 sounds like a tortured rodent when used by my hands.  I figured maybe I was holding it to harshly but even when I was pushing it around the mouse pad with my single thumb, it still creaked in the housing.  Nothing speaks louder than cheap housing sprayed with some kind of aerosol rubber compound.  I mainly freaked out because I paid over $69.00 for it, when it should really be for sale around the $10.00 mark (being real generous here).

5) Steelseries Kinzu v1,  I really liked it's shape but the acceleration and failed sensor, helped me to dump it into the nearest bin as soon as possible.  Totally unusable for almost any situation.

6) Razer Lachesis v1, Yes I am a slow retard that never learns from any previous experience when it comes to spending money on a Razer product.  Another useless rodent made by them with a sensor that just was awful in the extreme.  No amount of their dodgey firmware updates could fix it's problems.

7) Microsoft Sidewinder x8, a real cheap rodent that just failed with ergonomics, uncomfortable to hold and use.  This is were Microsoft had dropped the ball on designing mice.

8 ) Roccat Kone, speaking of cheap, this little bastard started to flake off it's coating after about two weeks of usage.  In the end it looked like a fledgling chick losing it's feathers over summer.  Had to dump it fast before it started to seep it's crap into my mouse mat.  Very bad manufacturing there in the realm of Razer-like Quality.

9) Logitech M100, was desperate when I lost some of the best mice and had to use something so bought this thing for $12.00.  Of course it was worth far less because after about 6 weeks the buttons stopped working, hence it too had to be dumped.  Nice one Logitech, following Razer with their manufacturing quality. At least Logitech never had the balls to charge $69.00 for it.

10) Logitech G9, could never get use to the tiny rodent which needed to be pushed around with your finger tips, almost like a hockey-puck (go figure).
 
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 September 2013, 21:50:35 by Elrick »

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 20 September 2013, 21:14:10 »
I don't remember the brand, but there was this mouse at Microcenter that required Hulk like strength to click down. I had to use two fingers and lift my hand, then push using forearm strength. I cannot fathom why anyone in their right mind would design something like that, unless it was to be used as a prank.

Offline ynrozturk

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 01:29:22 »
Those Apple mice just take the cake. They just feel horrible to use.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 01:46:43 »
Just to prove I'm not a foaming at the mouth Apple fanbois, the Apple hockey puck mouse is worst, and I currently use a Microsoft Basic Optical Mouse V2.0 at home (and a Dell-branded Logitech at work).
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Offline ch_123

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 03:58:01 »
The Apple Mice are definitely up on my last. Another worthy mention is the mouse that is shipped on HP's business class machines these days, which is about the size of a 'travel mouse'. Using one on a work machine caused me agony until I replaced it with one of my own mice. Microsoft also seem to have a new found fascination with making mice that are too small for anyone to use (while I have somewhat long fingers, my hands are about average size)

« Last Edit: Sat, 21 September 2013, 04:01:26 by ch_123 »

Offline Elrick

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 06:32:42 »
Microsoft also seem to have a new found fascination with making mice that are too small for anyone to use (while I have somewhat long fingers, my hands are about average size)

They all seem to have this fascination for making mice for midgets.  Imagine within a span of 20 years or less human evolution has now regressed into people being no higher than 4'11 and having such small hands that all manufacturers suddenly think we've become a nation of Ewoks or Munchkins.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 09:05:30 »
Evoluent vertical mice

also, mice with too many or too few buttons

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Offline baldgye

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 12:21:43 »
Haters aside, the Mighty Mouse is one of the worst pieces of **** ever made. I don't know about other Apple mice but the MM is totally horrible and barely functions as a mouse.

Offline SeriouSSpotS

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 12:26:00 »
Haters aside, the Mighty Mouse is one of the worst pieces of **** ever made. I don't know about other Apple mice but the MM is totally horrible and barely functions as a mouse.

What would you say is the worst/least ergonomic computer monse you have used? I'd pin the crown on the Apple "hockey puck" mouse and its successors:
Show Image


I concur
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 21 September 2013, 13:42:24 »
I have mentioned before that Apple's "Hockey Puck" mouse had a predecessor with the same shape, made by Digital Equipment a decade earlier.
Instead of a ball on the underside, it had two conical wheels: one vertical and one horizontal. It did not track correctly, it wanted to go vertical or horizontal. At least it had three buttons.

The Evoluent VerticalMouse isn't that bad. It is different, and it is not for precision mousing required for graphics design or games, but it is OK for office tasks. The worst things are the very light grip and the prediction. The best things, I think are the buttons.

Offline davkol

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 13:52:48 »
Microsoft also seem to have a new found fascination with making mice that are too small for anyone to use (while I have somewhat long fingers, my hands are about average size)

They all seem to have this fascination for making mice for midgets.  Imagine within a span of 20 years or less human evolution has now regressed into people being no higher than 4'11 and having such small hands that all manufacturers suddenly think we've become a nation of Ewoks or Munchkins.

Fingertip grip, bro...

Offline Hyde

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:35:04 »
The Apple Mice are definitely up on my last. Another worthy mention is the mouse that is shipped on HP's business class machines these days, which is about the size of a 'travel mouse'. Using one on a work machine caused me agony until I replaced it with one of my own mice. Microsoft also seem to have a new found fascination with making mice that are too small for anyone to use (while I have somewhat long fingers, my hands are about average size)

Show Image


Really?  I find those are amazinggggggg for fingertip/claw grip and I guess I have small hand so this sorta works out nicely for me.

Refer to this thread:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34989.0

Even BST (Ninox) Gaming mouse is similar to this shape so I'm pretty sure it has its own followers.

Though I'll admit the Apple "Hockey Puck" mouse is the worst, it's also bad because of its shape.  It's circular and sometimes it's hard to tell if you've rotated off by a few degrees.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:36:42 by Hyde »

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Offline Kagusaki Wolf

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 13:10:55 »
The hockey puck takes the cake for sure.  It was made for mice and rats, not humans lol
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Offline microsoft windows

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:11:29 »
The hockey puck takes the cake for sure.  It was made for mice and rats, not humans lol

Well, only mice and rats would be foolish enough to buy a new Mac anyways! So I guess that makes sense.
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Offline N8N

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 08:23:45 »
For me it has to be the RAT7  - it's actually brilliant to hold, but I haven't found a surface yet other than a cloth mouse pad (which I hate) that it will actually track on.
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Offline ynrozturk

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 09:25:40 »
For me it has to be the RAT7  - it's actually brilliant to hold, but I haven't found a surface yet other than a cloth mouse pad (which I hate) that it will actually track on.

Weird. It tracks awesome for me on my Icemat.
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Offline N8N

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 13:01:41 »
For me it has to be the RAT7  - it's actually brilliant to hold, but I haven't found a surface yet other than a cloth mouse pad (which I hate) that it will actually track on.

Weird. It tracks awesome for me on my Icemat.

Dunno what to tell you...  I bought it for work (at the time I was doing a lot of CAD work) and it worked great, right up until one day when it didn't.  In retrospect I believe that that is when I bought a Steelseries hard mat and took it to work to give myself a nicer surface to work on, although I did not think of that at the time.  Emails to Cyborg/Mad Catz went unanswered.  I then took my PMMX to work and took the RAT7 home and threw it in my junk box just in case I got bored enough to try to fix it.  (and bought a used Mionix mouse for home use off these august forums.) Then one day on a whim I dragged it out and lo and behold it worked again.  At the time I did not have a proper mouse pad at home, so I was using an old notepad instead.  (OK, there's two surfaces it works on.)  Then I decided to make myself an insert for the keyboard tray of the desk, so I took a piece of Masonite and wrapped it in contact paper and glued shelf liner on the back so it wouldn't slide around.  Suddenly my mouse doesn't work again, even though I would have expected the contact paper to provide a near ideal surface.  That's when I started testing different surfaces...

I can tell you it does NOT work on: the Steelseries hard pad (after looking online, I think it may be the 9HD?), bare wood, glass, Masonite, Masonite covered with matte clear contact paper, my Kensington combination wrist rest/keyboard tray (looks like black melamine - I wasn't using this at my main desk though because the keyboard tray was too narrow) or pretty much anything that one would want to run a mouse on, *except* for a traditional cloth mouse pad or a piece of white paper.  My Performance Mouse MX, Mionix something-or-other, and a really old Logitech cordless mouse that I keep in my laptop bag work on everything on which I've tried them, by comparison.

The whole thing frustrates me because really the only other quibble that I had with the RAT7 was that the thumbwheel didn't side scroll - I was able to "fix" that in Linux but not sure how to do it in Windows.  I like that way better than the push the wheel to the side functionality of the Logitech mice - much better control.  Ergonomically, it was the BEST mouse I'd ever used - which made it frustrating that it was essentially unusable, at least the way I wanted to use it.

So it works with an Icemat...?  It frosts my cookies to have to buy a mouse pad expressly because I have a mouse that is so defective that it will only work on a handful of surfaces, but then again, other than that, it is really good.
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Offline vun

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 13:59:24 »
For me it has to be the RAT7  - it's actually brilliant to hold, but I haven't found a surface yet other than a cloth mouse pad (which I hate) that it will actually track on.

Weird. It tracks awesome for me on my Icemat.

Dunno what to tell you...  I bought it for work (at the time I was doing a lot of CAD work) and it worked great, right up until one day when it didn't.  In retrospect I believe that that is when I bought a Steelseries hard mat and took it to work to give myself a nicer surface to work on, although I did not think of that at the time.  Emails to Cyborg/Mad Catz went unanswered.  I then took my PMMX to work and took the RAT7 home and threw it in my junk box just in case I got bored enough to try to fix it.  (and bought a used Mionix mouse for home use off these august forums.) Then one day on a whim I dragged it out and lo and behold it worked again.  At the time I did not have a proper mouse pad at home, so I was using an old notepad instead.  (OK, there's two surfaces it works on.)  Then I decided to make myself an insert for the keyboard tray of the desk, so I took a piece of Masonite and wrapped it in contact paper and glued shelf liner on the back so it wouldn't slide around.  Suddenly my mouse doesn't work again, even though I would have expected the contact paper to provide a near ideal surface.  That's when I started testing different surfaces...

I can tell you it does NOT work on: the Steelseries hard pad (after looking online, I think it may be the 9HD?), bare wood, glass, Masonite, Masonite covered with matte clear contact paper, my Kensington combination wrist rest/keyboard tray (looks like black melamine - I wasn't using this at my main desk though because the keyboard tray was too narrow) or pretty much anything that one would want to run a mouse on, *except* for a traditional cloth mouse pad or a piece of white paper.  My Performance Mouse MX, Mionix something-or-other, and a really old Logitech cordless mouse that I keep in my laptop bag work on everything on which I've tried them, by comparison.

The whole thing frustrates me because really the only other quibble that I had with the RAT7 was that the thumbwheel didn't side scroll - I was able to "fix" that in Linux but not sure how to do it in Windows.  I like that way better than the push the wheel to the side functionality of the Logitech mice - much better control.  Ergonomically, it was the BEST mouse I'd ever used - which made it frustrating that it was essentially unusable, at least the way I wanted to use it.

So it works with an Icemat...?  It frosts my cookies to have to buy a mouse pad expressly because I have a mouse that is so defective that it will only work on a handful of surfaces, but then again, other than that, it is really good.

Have you tried cleaning dust off the sensor? PTE sensors until recently were horrible at handling dust, although I would suggest RMAing it since my RAT7 has tracked just fine on any surface I've thrown at it so far, although I'll admit it's not a whole lot.

Also, I would suggest getting an IceMat(known as the I-2 now) either way if you can find one, it is hands down the best pad I've used so far.

Offline eth0s

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 14:14:32 »
LOGITECH G300 OPTICAL MOUSE IS GREATEST MOUSE OF ALL TIME.

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Offline N8N

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 14:46:22 »

(RAT7)

Have you tried cleaning dust off the sensor? PTE sensors until recently were horrible at handling dust, although I would suggest RMAing it since my RAT7 has tracked just fine on any surface I've thrown at it so far, although I'll admit it's not a whole lot.

Also, I would suggest getting an IceMat(known as the I-2 now) either way if you can find one, it is hands down the best pad I've used so far.

yes, I've tried cleaning it repeatedly... it just doesn't work.

I can't RMA it because a) that would mean that I could actually communicate with Cyborg customer service and b) I actually got it used, and probably 2-3 years ago anyway.

I will see if I Micro Center has that pad though... they've started carrying quite a few quality peripherals that used to be you never saw in stores.  So much nicer to buy when you can see it before you choose...  they've got a nice selection of keyboards too, if they had 5-6 years ago the keyboard selection that they have today, I probably would have just bought something that I liked, and never found GH!

Edit: "no longer available."  Amazon still has them though... in pink.  And for $40.

I just hate soft cloth pads... they get dirty super fast, come unlaminated, and don't glide nicely... I'm definitely a hard pad kind of guy.

I wonder if a simple piece of frosted glass would work?  Maybe I'll try that if I get bored and feel like experimenting... I'd do it now but I don't feel like running to the lumberyard today.  You would think that my contact paper "pad" would be roughly equivalent to that though, but clearly the RAT's sensor is a finicky little beast.
« Last Edit: Thu, 26 September 2013, 15:07:48 by N8N »
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Offline vun

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 15:39:30 »

(RAT7)

Have you tried cleaning dust off the sensor? PTE sensors until recently were horrible at handling dust, although I would suggest RMAing it since my RAT7 has tracked just fine on any surface I've thrown at it so far, although I'll admit it's not a whole lot.

Also, I would suggest getting an IceMat(known as the I-2 now) either way if you can find one, it is hands down the best pad I've used so far.

yes, I've tried cleaning it repeatedly... it just doesn't work.

I can't RMA it because a) that would mean that I could actually communicate with Cyborg customer service and b) I actually got it used, and probably 2-3 years ago anyway.

I will see if I Micro Center has that pad though... they've started carrying quite a few quality peripherals that used to be you never saw in stores.  So much nicer to buy when you can see it before you choose...  they've got a nice selection of keyboards too, if they had 5-6 years ago the keyboard selection that they have today, I probably would have just bought something that I liked, and never found GH!

Edit: "no longer available."  Amazon still has them though... in pink.  And for $40.

I just hate soft cloth pads... they get dirty super fast, come unlaminated, and don't glide nicely... I'm definitely a hard pad kind of guy.

I wonder if a simple piece of frosted glass would work?  Maybe I'll try that if I get bored and feel like experimenting... I'd do it now but I don't feel like running to the lumberyard today.  You would think that my contact paper "pad" would be roughly equivalent to that though, but clearly the RAT's sensor is a finicky little beast.

I'm gonna guess it's a faulty sensor, specially if what you have is the gen1. I had to RMA mine, but the gen2 I got in return has worked great so far, it does act up sometimes because of dust, but it's not often and it's easy to clean.

Offline ynrozturk

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 15:47:43 »
I agree with that. Mine is 2nd gen too and it works great, the 1st gen were known to have some tracking issues. The side thumb scroll doesn't work for me, either. A friend has the RAT 5, and the side scroll doesn't work on that one, too.

I just plugged it in to test it (currently using a Razer Lachesis Refresh) on different surfaces, and so far it has tracked flawlessly on these surfaces :

- Icemat
- Bare wood desk
- An issue of Guitar World
- A4 paper
- A cloth Zowie mousepad

Like vun said, I think yours may just have a faulty sensor unfortunately. It's a shame, because the mouse itself is extremely comfortable. Much more so than the Lachesis, but I have the Lachesis setup with tons of macros and stuff so it works well for me. But that thumb and pinky rest just cannot be beaten. Only maybe by the Func MS-3, but I have yet to give that one a try.
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Offline N8N

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 16:01:23 »
maybe it is in fact faulty, but it works great on cloth and paper, but I just can't get it to work on anything else.

If you're using X on Linux, I actually figured out how to make the side scroll work.  You have to edit your xorg.conf anyway to keep the thing from hosing your system.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=23296.msg601482#msg601482
« Last Edit: Thu, 26 September 2013, 16:04:50 by N8N »
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Offline Thimplum

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 20:11:18 »
Apple's newer mice take the 'success" out of "succession".
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Offline inteli722

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 20:44:26 »
So far, anything with only 3 buttons.


I NEED at least the back/forward buttons.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 23:15:00 »
Apple's newer mice take the 'success" out of "succession".

Making them ... ion? :confused:
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline meiosis

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 23:20:00 »
I actually enjoyed the hockey puck mice as a child.. Was so circular
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Offline Elrick

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 26 September 2013, 23:23:43 »
Apple's newer mice take the 'success" out of "succession".

Making them ... ion? ???

Maybe something to do with HR Planning......workforce........?  :-\ .
« Last Edit: Thu, 26 September 2013, 23:25:17 by Elrick »

Offline microsoft windows

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 27 September 2013, 08:42:48 »
Apple's newer mice take the 'success" out of "succession".

Making them ... ion? :confused:

THEY MAKE MICE INTO CRAP BY HIRING IDIOTS TO DESIGN THEM. THAT IS ONE OF MANY REASONS WHY MICROSOFT PRODUCTS ARE SUPERIOR.
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Offline Elrick

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 27 September 2013, 18:28:04 »
THEY MAKE MICE INTO CRAP BY HIRING IDIOTS TO DESIGN THEM. THAT IS ONE OF MANY REASONS WHY MICROSOFT PRODUCTS ARE SUPERIOR.

I wouldn't go that far especially now, when Microsoft is literally making horrible rodents.  Please don't compare the brilliant Opticals that were made 20 years ago to their latest junk pile on their web store.

Although I like the look of their only "Comfort Mouse 6000" series for business, very nice like their Explorer Series 3.0.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 28 September 2013, 02:21:06 »
MX 500 was actually pretty bad when I plugged it in the other day..

After getting used to the G400...

Offline Grendel

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 04 October 2013, 16:54:37 »
The 1st MS SideWinder Mouse. WAY too tall for me, it actually hurt my wrist when I was giving it a try. Perfect mouse for me is the G9 (or G9x) with the small shell.
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Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 04 October 2013, 22:03:39 »
In terms of shape, I actually didn't mind the Mighty Mouse at all. It was the buttons (or lack thereof), which made it horrid. Also, since there were no dedicated buttons, it wouldn't know with which finger you were clicking with if you had both fingers lying on both sides, so it would just register the left click if you had your fingers lying on both sides. This meant that you had to consciously lift up the left finger whenever you wanted to use the right click. This was horrible for gaming.

As far as contemporary examples go, in terms of shape only, the worst mice are all the gaming ones from Logitech. G700, G9, G400, and new the G602 are all terrible. I have no idea why they insist on having so many odd curves and angles on all their freakin' gaming mice. It's as if they are suggesting that all of those curves and shapes are required for comfort; it's obviously a marketing move. But in practical use, all those curves and angles make their mice super uncomfortable. You are absolutely forced to hold their mice in one very specific way, but again, in practical use, people need the freedom to hold their mice in different ways and angles; because everybody's hands are different, and the mouse is constantly moving. Why do they think holding the mouse in one very specific form is appropriate, when the hand is required to constantly move to move the mouse, I don't know.

That said, I will say Logitech mice are the best, that I've used of course (there may be other brands out there that I haven't used that may be better), when it comes to build quality. All their mice just feel super solid, and I've never been afraid that one would break over a period of time.

With THAT said, when it comes to quality... I'll agree with everyone, that Razer is absolute ****e. Almost a third of Razer mice I've owned/tried, had issues with a weak/flimsy/creaking body. They just feel... hollow, and all the pieces feel weakly put together. It's a shame, because I absolutely love the design of their Deathadder and Taipan mice.

To me, it doesn't really matter how well built a mouse is, if it is super uncomfortable, so I just deal with the build-quality issues of Razer mice, and just use Razer mice. To me, personally, I think it's easier to just deal with and/or replace broken/lemon mice from Razer, and continue using new ones, rather than having a really well built mouse that I can barely use (Logitech). Because in the least, I can still at least use the mice (from Razer).

Yes, I know I'm bitter about Logitech mice. I have just given them way too many tries, and every single time, I'm unsatisfied with the shape of their mice. I want to like them... but after a certain amount of time, they just get put back in the drawer, or returned to the store. I guess that's a part of my fault, so... no more Logitech mice for me. Unless I see that they change the way they design their mice.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 October 2013, 22:12:26 by fuzzybaffy »

Offline vun

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 04 October 2013, 22:19:34 »
In terms of shape, I actually didn't mind the Mighty Mouse at all. It was the buttons (or lack thereof), which made it horrid. Also, since there were no dedicated buttons, it wouldn't know with which finger you were clicking with if you had both fingers on both sides, so it would just register the left click if you had your fingers laying on both sides. This meant that you had to consciously lift up the left finger whenever you wanted to use the right click. This was horrible for gaming.

As far as contemporary examples go, in terms of shape only, the worst mice are all the gaming ones from Logitech. G700, G9, G400, and new the G602 are all terrible. I have no idea why they insist on having so many odd curves and angles on all their freakin' gaming mice. It's as if they are suggesting that all of those curves and shapes are required for comfort; it's obviously a marketing move. But in practical use, all those curves and angles make their mice super uncomfortable. You are absolutely forced to hold their mice in one very specific way, but again, in practical use, people need the freedom to hold their mice in different ways and angles; because everybody's hands are different, and the mouse is constantly moving. Why do they think holding the mouse in one very specific form is appropriate, when the hand is required to constantly move to move the mouse, I don't know.

That said, I will say Logitech mice are the best, that I've used of course (there may be other brands out there that I haven't used that may be better), when it comes to build quality. All their mice just feel super solid, and I've never been afraid that one would break over a period of time.

With THAT said, when it comes to quality... I'll agree with everyone, that Razer is absolute ****e. Almost a third of Razer mice I've owned/tried, had issues with a weak/flimsy/creaking body. They just feel... hollow, and all the pieces feel weakly put together. It's a shame, because I absolutely love the design of their Deathadder and Taipan mice.

To me, it doesn't really matter how well built a mouse is, if it is super uncomfortable, so I just deal with the build-quality issues of Razer mice, and just use Razer mice. To me, personally, I think it's easier to just replace a broken/lemon mouse from Razer, and continue using new ones, rather than having a really well built mouse that I can barely use (Logitech). Because in the least, I can still at least use the mice (from Razer).

Yes, I know I'm bitter about Logitech mice. I have just given them way too many tries, and every single time, I'm unsatisfied with the shape of their mice. I guess that's a part of my fault, so... no more Logitech mice for me. Unless I see that they change the way they design their mice.

I could go into this, but I'll try to keep this short;

Most of Logitech's mice are made to fit a palm grip, and pretty much only that. Other than the G700 I've found all the Logitech mice I've tried to be very comfortable(hint: it's all personal preference), and some of the curves and shapes you mention are there, in part, to give better grip for easier lifting of the mouse. They're made for people who like palm grip and want a mouse that is best suited for it. Palm grippers, at least in gaming, will tend to have low sens and mainly use their arm to move the mouse rather than small hand movement, those who prefer that tend to use smaller claw grip mice. They're different mice for different styles.

If you want a mouse that you can hold the way you want, you can't have it, because to get that versatility you'll have to sacrifice some functionality for some grip styles. A small mouse, like the Abyssus, will allow you to hold it at different angles and as close to or far away from your palm as you'd like, but you absolutely cannot palm it unless you have unusually small hands, so you still can't hold it whichever way you want.

Here's where it shows that it's all very much subjective; I find that I prefer most Logitech mice over the DA. Now, the DA shape is amazing and does offer more versatility in grip than the G400 shape, but like I said, that's not without sacrifice. The rubber grips on the 2013 model aren't always grippy enough, and the surface is so matte that it won't grip at all, so I find that sometimes I have to clench my hand more than I should have to to lift it, whereas on the G400 there's a small ledge that allows me to lift it without excess strain. This was less of an issue on the old DA where the shiny plastic could get sticky and required less force to lift, but that was about the only good thing about the shiny plastic.

But yeah, Logitech mice feel very solid, I was disappointed in the hollow feel of the DA2013, although both the Naga 2012 and Lachesis Refresh feel just as solid as Logitech mice.

Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 04 October 2013, 22:28:08 »
Right. It is subjective. But by telling me this is subjective, you are implying my subjective experiences are wrong.

No. I think Logitech mice are absolutely horrid when it comes to comfort. You can think whatever you want.

Also, were you talking about the G9 when you were talking about palm-gripping? Because I'm pretty sure the G9 was intended for claw-grips, even with the fatter grip. And the G9 fat-grip was one of the worst when it came to lifting the mouse. The narrow grip was a little better when it came to lifting, but again... it had some weird angles that also gave me horrible hand cramps.
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 October 2013, 22:38:36 by fuzzybaffy »

Offline fuzzybaffy

  • Posts: 553
Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 04 October 2013, 22:37:55 »
Also, the G400 indeed was amazing for lifting. But its shape forced you to hold the mouse in that very specific oval shape, which, to me, was uncomfortable during casual desktop use.

I don't mind the extra bit of clenching to lift the DA2013 at all. It's required, but it isn't uncomfortable for me.

Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 04 October 2013, 22:44:30 »
And I'm not saying that a mouse should let you hold it however you want it, in the absolute sense. Obviously, just by the very nature of the mouse being a physical thing that you hold, you are going to be limited to some degree in how you hold it. But, I think, in the least, your fingers should get some space and some freedom to move on their own while the mouse is moving. The way Logitech mice are designed, make it really difficult for the fingers to do that.

A great example of a mouse that gives the hand a lot of space and freedom to move is the Razer Taipan. I absolutely freakin' love the shape of the mouse, because its narrow form factor allows your hand to adapt to the mouse's position and shape while you move the mouse. With something like a G400, you are seriously forced to hold it in that oval shape; and that gets annoying really quickly. To me, at least.

Offline Elrick

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 00:24:28 »
I don't mind the extra bit of clenching to lift the DA2013 at all.  It's required, but it isn't uncomfortable for me.

Yes, I love that statement, some extreme "butt-clenching" is required once you figured out how much money got tossed down the toilet for this ugly piece of cheapo-refuse, masquerading as a PC Mouse.

I truly hate that rodent with such a passion, it borders equally with my hatred for the West Coast Eagles and Hawthorn  :p :p :p .

Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 00:44:18 »
Haha. Good luck with your Logitech mice, then. =D

Offline vun

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 04:57:27 »
Right. It is subjective. But by telling me this is subjective, you are implying my subjective experiences are wrong.


Not at all, I'm just telling you that the shapes of Logitech mice are not a marketing move, but a comfort feature, and I'm also just providing another view on the matter so that anyone viewing this thread have the information they need to make an informed decision based on views from both from people who like and dislike the mice.

But yeah, the G9 is one of the exceptions from Logitech, the fat grip is not that good for lifting and is more suited for a palm/claw hybrid grip whereas the smaller grip is better for claw.

Offline Elrick

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 06:13:04 »
Not at all, I'm just telling you that the shapes of Logitech mice are not a marketing move, but a comfort feature, and I'm also just providing another view on the matter so that anyone viewing this thread have the information they need to make an informed decision based on views from both from people who like and dislike the mice.

Vun's right about why Logitech chose a particular shape and stuck with it, with in their range of mice.  For instance the G500S I still love using, when I can't find G400S or a G400 because my GF decides she wants to loan out a rodent to one of her friends because their HP, Dell and/or Acer rodent died.  The rotten thing is that they keep the mouse and I have to buy another one a month later.

But now since I've got the Roccat Kone XTD she doesn't like it because it's too huge for her, so it's now safe sitting beside my PC.  Always go for the BIG stuff because not all girls can take the large black thing in their stride  ;D .
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 October 2013, 06:15:35 by Elrick »

Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 11:45:48 »
Quote
Vun's right about why Logitech chose a particular shape and stuck with it, with in their range of mice.

That's exactly my point, though... this is what I wrote in my first post about Logitech:

Quote
I have no idea why they insist on having so many odd curves and angles on all their freakin' gaming mice. It's as if they are suggesting that all of those curves and shapes are required for comfort; it's obviously a marketing move. But in practical use, all those curves and angles make their mice super uncomfortable.

They make these odd shapes and curves, as if to imply that they're there on purpose, for "comfort", but after having used them for a long while, and realizing that they are actually uncomfortable, I'm thinking they are not. They are there for marketing; which is evidenced exactly by your post.

Quote
Not at all, I'm just telling you that the shapes of Logitech mice are not a marketing move, but a comfort feature, and I'm also just providing another view on the matter so that anyone viewing this thread have the information they need to make an informed decision based on views from both from people who like and dislike the mice.

=D If you believe the shapes of Logitech mice are a comfort feature, aren't I right in saying that it's a marketing move? Yea, it's a "feature", but to me, their shapes are uncomfortable, and I think it's just a gimmick, made to get people to believe it's for comfort, so that they can sell more mice.

But, regardless, we'll have to agree to disagree. You like the design of Logitech mice, I don't like the design of Logitech mice.

Offline vun

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 11:53:12 »
Quote
Vun's right about why Logitech chose a particular shape and stuck with it, with in their range of mice.

That's exactly my point, though... this is what I wrote in my first post about Logitech:

Quote
I have no idea why they insist on having so many odd curves and angles on all their freakin' gaming mice. It's as if they are suggesting that all of those curves and shapes are required for comfort; it's obviously a marketing move. But in practical use, all those curves and angles make their mice super uncomfortable.

They make these odd shapes and curves, as if to imply that they're there on purpose, for "comfort", but after having used them for a long while, and realizing that they are actually uncomfortable, I'm thinking they are not. They are there for marketing; which is evidenced exactly by your post.

Quote
Not at all, I'm just telling you that the shapes of Logitech mice are not a marketing move, but a comfort feature, and I'm also just providing another view on the matter so that anyone viewing this thread have the information they need to make an informed decision based on views from both from people who like and dislike the mice.

=D If you believe the shapes of Logitech mice are a comfort feature, aren't I right in saying that it's a marketing move? Yea, it's a "feature", but to me, their shapes are uncomfortable, and I think it's just a gimmick, made to get people to believe it's for comfort, so that they can sell more mice.

But, regardless, we'll have to agree to disagree. You like the design of Logitech mice, I don't like the design of Logitech mice.

It's not a gimmick, they don't work for you, and that's fine, but for the people who prefer palm grip the additional grip support actually makes a difference. I have tried quite a few mice, and the Logitech shape is far more than a gimmick, there's a reason why it's one of the most popular shapes of all time.

What I'm saying is; the shape is very well designed(if there's one thing Logitech does well it's functional design). It's meant for one grip style, so you won't like it if your grip differs, but it can't be that hard to see it from another angle and acknowledge that others might find it comfortable.

Offline fuzzybaffy

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 11:59:38 »
I don't know... are you using a Logitech mouse right now? Which model? Didn't you say you didn't like the G700? This is what you wrote earlier:

Quote
Magicmouse requires little explanation, although some might wonder about the G700s; basically it was too heavy, all the weight was in the back while the sensor was in the front, and it did not give me a good enough grip to lift it easily and securely. I absolutely loved all the extra buttons on it, they're brilliantly designed, but for low sens gaming it was incredibly uncomfortable bordering on unusable.

Note you didn't just talk about the weight. You talked about how it didn't give you a good enough grip to lift easily and securely, and that's exactly the problems I ran into with the G700, too.

So which Logitech mouse did you find comfortable using for long periods of time? How long have you used it?

Offline vun

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Re: Worst Mouse Ever
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 05 October 2013, 12:35:24 »
I don't know... are you using a Logitech mouse right now? Which model? Didn't you say you didn't like the G700? This is what you wrote earlier:

Quote
Magicmouse requires little explanation, although some might wonder about the G700s; basically it was too heavy, all the weight was in the back while the sensor was in the front, and it did not give me a good enough grip to lift it easily and securely. I absolutely loved all the extra buttons on it, they're brilliantly designed, but for low sens gaming it was incredibly uncomfortable bordering on unusable.

Note you didn't just talk about the weight. You talked about how it didn't give you a good enough grip to lift easily and securely, and that's exactly the problems I ran into with the G700, too.

So which Logitech mouse did you find comfortable using for long periods of time? How long have you used it?

Yeah, the G700 was too flat on the right hand side compared to the weight of it(not to mention the uneven weight distribution and poor sensor placement), so to lift it I would have to clench far harder than I should have to just to keep the rear from dropping.
This is kind of a major issue for me, as I game quite a bit and prefer low sensitivity, so I will often need to lift my mouse.

The MX518/G5/G400(s)/G500(s) all have the same shape which has a small lip on the top of the right hand side, meaning your fingers have something to lift without having to squeeze the mouse any harder. I used the G5 for several years before I started collecting, and I can't recall it ever being uncomfortable.
At the moment though I'm experiencing fatigue in my right pinky and ringfinger, so I'm using the Naga 2012 with the wide grip as that is one of the few mice I have that will just let my hand rest flat on it.
You'd probably like that, actually, it's got interchangeable grips that dramatically alter how you hold it, which is more than what can be said about the interchangeable grips on the RAT and Ouroboros. It also feels very well built, possibly the most solid Razer mouse I've tried.

Edit:
I've also used the G9x for extended periods of time with very little issue, although the grip I use to hold it does cause fatigue faster than the G400 shape.
Still, the G9x is a very comfortable mouse.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 October 2013, 12:38:15 by vun »