reduce key way

[DarkOvi]

Hi,
I'm new here and I hope, it's the right sub forum. I googled a lot, but still havn't found any good solution..
I want to reduce the way of the MX Switches to eliminate the senseless way after keyactivation.. activation point is 2mm, after that 4mm (?) way doing nothing than press and waste time..
I tried O-Rings, tried other sort of rings layed on the board instead around the insiode of keycap, but don't really work as I want. Before testing I thought the way reduction is equal to the strength of the ring, but it's much less..... And big O Rings has the problem to cover the LED lighing. I also read about landing pads, but sounds like the same problem with o rings, that they are only to reduce noise, but don't reduce the way too much (I know, most like that).

Do you have an idea or is there maybe a buyble solution to reduce the way without covering the LED lights?
My main problem is, that I don't know, which part of key is "hitting the ground" - means, which part I have to manipulate to make it stop earlier. I thought it's the key inside, that hits the 'plate' around MX switch, but it isn't... Maybe somebody can explain.

Greets,
Ovi


PS: sorry for my bad English, I'm German.

[terran5992]

Hmmm , soft landing pads?

[PointyFox]

The distance after activation on MX switches is 2mm.  You could try hard landing pads with holes cut for the LEDs.  I've had success reducing the distance with thick o-rings.

[CPTBadAss]

You could try Jailhouse Blues or maybe try and learn to type without bottoming out? It's hard, I tried for a while to not bottom out but it's just how I type now. But it sounds like you're motivated enough to figure it out .

[Oobly]

You could try 5mm inner diameter silicone tube, cut to different heights to test. Then if you find a height you like, cut a bunch of pieces that size and fit them. Shouldn't obscure the LEDs much if at all.

[JPG]

O-rings will reduce the distance. Your problem seems to be your leds being in the way. If the thin o-rings are working with leds, try putting 2 thin instead of 1 thick. You will get more travel reduction without increasing thickness. Also, when I use thick cherry profile pbt caps I feel the travel is reduced compared to my oem profile keycaps. I don't know if it's accurate, but it's the feeling I get.

So try things like that until you find the best combination for you. Also, if you manage to get to the point you want with travel reduction, maybe you won't like out it feels, but maybe you will. Anyway, it should not make you type faster or slower, or not by much really if you count the extra time to go bottom compared to the whole time spent hitting a specific key. It should be done more for the feeling than purely for the travel distance.

In the end, try it and keep us informed!

[PointyFox]

Also using a clear material can help the LEDs show.  Might even diffuse them better.

[Linkbane]

You could also update the software rather than the hardware, so to speak, and practice typing without bottoming out which will increase your speed (and possibly accuracy) significantly.

[Tony]

2mm length between activation and full bottom out is the reason of great feel that mech keyboards are so famous.

If you type with the appropriate force (read: lighter), the keys are registered so that you can quickly type new keys. Your fingers start to dance on the keyboard instead of mercilessly punching the keys.

If you type like this on red, you will feel the booby feelings that all of us are talking about. You don't need to visit your mother and grandma so often any more.

[tp4tissue]

2mm length between activation and full bottom out is the great feel that mech keyboards are so famous.

If you type with the appropriate force (read: lighter), the keys are registered so that you can quickly type new keys. Your fingers start to dance on the keyboard instead of mercilessly punching the keys.

If you type like this on red, you will feel the booby feelings that all of us are talking about. You don't need to visit your mothers and grandma so often any more.

Show Image

wtf...  What are you insinuating here?...

[Tony]

wtf...  What are you insinuating here?...

Show Image

Oh, here is another interpretation for younger audiences

[DarkOvi]

Hi again and thanx for the good ideas. I tried again, but it's frustrating not do understand why it isn't doing, what I expect... On the first picture you can see the ring, I laid around the key ground and another version with an o-ring.  But I still can't imagine, how the way can only be reduced 0,4mm, after I put a 1mm ring inside.. Second picture I shot the orange cross on the NUM block, where I put pieces of a coloured plastic bag under the cap  (arrow keys are red, but look white on the picture^^) )

I have to say I'm not gaming, just using my keyboard to type (programming), so I decided for brown switches. I tried to type this way, but it doesn't feel satisfying without hitting the ground, so maybe a damped key way isn't satisfying, too, like JPG said.. But I will test A50 double O rings and hard landing caps, after order arrives in 5-8 days.

Most people say, typing with mx reds is horrible !?? Sad, cause I'm in love with the black corsair K70, but with brown or blue switches, you can't buy a black edition :/ If MX red would be good as brown with some experience, I would order a K70 with reds.

[DarkOvi]

hm second attachement failed, here again:

[JPG]

I don't know what's the big rubber circle near the stem of the switch, but honestly, with 1 o-ring on the keycap for me it's way enough. Is it hitting the led and causing you problems?

Also, if you prefer red switches, even if you will often read they are better for "gaming", well they can still be you favorites switches to type on. The switches best application is mostly generalities and preferences, but each of us has to find the best switches for themselves.

[scumyc]

I too have been wanting to cut down on the post-actuation travel distance of MX switches and am unsatisfied by o-rings and landing pads.  Perhaps this is being anal but I dislike how they don't allow the keycap to sit all the way down on the switch stem. 

After taking apart a switch, it looked to me like the switch bottoms out when the cylindrical shaft of the stem hits the plastic at the bottom of its sheath.  I would love to get my hands on ~1.9mm high plastic or metal cylinders to insert into the sheath to raise its bottom, but I have not found anywhere to get something like that or thought of a way to make it myself.  Anyone have any ideas?

[esoomenona]

Are you putting the O rings or landing pads on correctly? It was my understanding that they go on the stem of the keycap, not the stem of the switch.

[MKULTRA]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

[scumyc]

I believe they are supposed to go on the stem of the keycap as well, and if you could teleport them there, the cap would not sit higher.  But since you then have to press the cap onto the stem with the o-ring there, it does not go the whole way on (at least with the o-rings I have) because they are larger than the rectangular cutout for the switch stem.  At least I think this is what is happening, I did put a ringed cap next to a normal cap to verify the height difference.

I did try cutting little cylinders out of an o-ring, but it made the bottom out feel too mushy for me.  I am not worried about noise dampening, but for those who are that could be a solution.

[Pacifist]

2mm length between activation and full bottom out is the reason of great feel that mech keyboards are so famous.

If you type with the appropriate force (read: lighter), the keys are registered so that you can quickly type new keys. Your fingers start to dance on the keyboard instead of mercilessly punching the keys.

If you type like this on red, you will feel the booby feelings that all of us are talking about. You don't need to visit your mother and grandma so often any more.

Show Image

I almost puked in my mouth, that should not be here  :mad:

[spiceBar]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

I think you are talking about a mod to reduce the sound of the upstroke on Topre switches. It's not what the OP is looking for.

[MKULTRA]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

I think you are talking about a mod to reduce the sound of the upstroke on Topre switches. It's not what the OP is looking for.

Nope.  I think I know the difference between a Cherry MX switch and a Topre switch.  Thanks though!

[spiceBar]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

I think you are talking about a mod to reduce the sound of the upstroke on Topre switches. It's not what the OP is looking for.

Nope.  I think I know the difference between a Cherry MX switch and a Topre switch.  Thanks though!

OK, so if you find the link to this mod I'm interested. I did not know about it.

[Oobly]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

This could do the job as most of the time when you bottom out an MX it's the slider hitting the bottom (this is also why a 1mm oring only provides 0.4mm reduction, because the cap doesn't actually hit the switch case when bottoming out normally). So a little rubber piece in the hole the "pole" of the slider goes into will reduce the travel and should have a nice enough feeling.

Maybe it will feel more like Topre switches then? 

[SpAmRaY]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

This?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8780.msg156424#msg156424

and just for info the topre version is here

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.msg806150#msg806150

[esoomenona]

I believe they are supposed to go on the stem of the keycap as well, and if you could teleport them there, the cap would not sit higher.  But since you then have to press the cap onto the stem with the o-ring there, it does not go the whole way on (at least with the o-rings I have) because they are larger than the rectangular cutout for the switch stem.  At least I think this is what is happening, I did put a ringed cap next to a normal cap to verify the height difference.

Ah, I see what you mean now. I do have a solution, but it requires either A) PCB mounted keyboard or B) keyboard with easy open switch holes (Phantom, UTKL, newer LZ boards, etc.)

1) Put all the o rings on the caps.
2) Pull all the tops off of the switches.
3) Grab a cap, put a switch top housing over the stem of it, then slide the switch stem into the cap by hand all the way.
4) Take the stem/cap assembly and put the switch back together.

[Oobly]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

This?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8780.msg156424#msg156424

and just for info the topre version is here

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.msg806150#msg806150

Those mods do 2 different things. The first is sort of what the OP is after, reducing the movement after actuation by placing a stopper somewhere (in this case under the keycap like a thicker oring). The second (Topre mod) reduces the movement before activation very slightly and is for reducing the sound of the keys hitting the top casing when coming back up.

What I propose is putting a tiny piece of rubber in the centre hole of the casing to reduce the distance after actuation something like an oring, but more direct (acts on the switch stem directly whem bottoming out). This is assuming that the pole part of the stem is the part that hits first when bottoming out MX switches.

[spiceBar]

There was a mod I saw somewhere, I can't remember for the life of me where it was.  But you take a sheet of rubber or something, punch a little circle out, and put it inside the cylindrical thing that the stem sits in.  Gonna try and find it now.

This?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8780.msg156424#msg156424

and just for info the topre version is here

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40582.msg806150#msg806150

Those mods do 2 different things. The first is sort of what the OP is after, reducing the movement after actuation by placing a stopper somewhere (in this case under the keycap like a thicker oring). The second (Topre mod) reduces the movement before activation very slightly and is for reducing the sound of the keys hitting the top casing when coming back up.

What I propose is putting a tiny piece of rubber in the centre hole of the casing to reduce the distance after actuation something like an oring, but more direct (acts on the switch stem directly whem bottoming out). This is assuming that the pole part of the stem is the part that hits first when bottoming out MX switches.

Interesting, this should give a different sound than the sound of the keycap hitting the top of the housing. Then it could be worth the effort of finding the right parts and opening all the switches to do the mod.

Plunger hitting rubber is definitely how a downstroke ends in a Topre. And it's an important part of the "Thock".

[scumyc]

Ah, I see what you mean now. I do have a solution, but it requires either A) PCB mounted keyboard or B) keyboard with easy open switch holes (Phantom, UTKL, newer LZ boards, etc.)

1) Put all the o rings on the caps.
2) Pull all the tops off of the switches.
3) Grab a cap, put a switch top housing over the stem of it, then slide the switch stem into the cap by hand all the way.
4) Take the stem/cap assembly and put the switch back together.

That sounds like it would work thanks!  Harder thicker O-ringish pieces could solve my problem now if I can find something.  I am thinking about calculating how tall the piece would need to be based on what Oobly said about needing to cover the space between keycap and switch top on bottom out before travel distance is reduced.  Now I am worried that distance might vary with the profile of the keycap.

[Oobly]

Ah, I see what you mean now. I do have a solution, but it requires either A) PCB mounted keyboard or B) keyboard with easy open switch holes (Phantom, UTKL, newer LZ boards, etc.)

1) Put all the o rings on the caps.
2) Pull all the tops off of the switches.
3) Grab a cap, put a switch top housing over the stem of it, then slide the switch stem into the cap by hand all the way.
4) Take the stem/cap assembly and put the switch back together.

That sounds like it would work thanks!  Harder thicker O-ringish pieces could solve my problem now if I can find something.  I am thinking about calculating how tall the piece would need to be based on what Oobly said about needing to cover the space between keycap and switch top on bottom out before travel distance is reduced.  Now I am worried that distance might vary with the profile of the keycap.

Most well made keycaps have "+" shaped support ribs always at the same height which the oring presses against. Some don't though, and for these you need to experiment with different numbers of orings per row. Not the nicest solution.

I have tried the mod I mentioned earlier and I like it. You can set the amount of travel reduction to exactly how much you want and because the mod is in the keyswitch itself, you can use any keycaps without changing the travel. It also gives a nice soft landing which you can adjust the feel of by changing the material.

I herebey call this mod... The Cherry MX "Trampoline" Mod ^tm! I will post details of the mod later today.

P.S. - If you do the mod to red switches and set the "touchdown" point to just after activation you may like them for typing. I don't know if you can open the switches on the K70 without desoldering them, though.

[terran5992]

Ah, I see what you mean now. I do have a solution, but it requires either A) PCB mounted keyboard or B) keyboard with easy open switch holes (Phantom, UTKL, newer LZ boards, etc.)

1) Put all the o rings on the caps.
2) Pull all the tops off of the switches.
3) Grab a cap, put a switch top housing over the stem of it, then slide the switch stem into the cap by hand all the way.
4) Take the stem/cap assembly and put the switch back together.

That sounds like it would work thanks!  Harder thicker O-ringish pieces could solve my problem now if I can find something.  I am thinking about calculating how tall the piece would need to be based on what Oobly said about needing to cover the space between keycap and switch top on bottom out before travel distance is reduced.  Now I am worried that distance might vary with the profile of the keycap.

Most well made keycaps have "+" shaped support ribs always at the same height which the oring presses against. Some don't though, and for these you need to experiment with different numbers of orings per row. Not the nicest solution.

I have tried the mod I mentioned earlier and I like it. You can set the amount of travel reduction to exactly how much you want and because the mod is in the keyswitch itself, you can use any keycaps without changing the travel. It also gives a nice soft landing which you can adjust the feel of by changing the material.

I herebey call this mod... The Cherry MX "Trampoline" Mod ^tm! I will post details of the mod later today.

P.S. - If you do the mod to red switches and set the "touchdown" point to just after activation you may like them for typing. I don't know if you can open the switches on the K70 without desoldering them, though.

0.o i wanna see pics

[Oobly]

<snip>

0.o i wanna see pics

I made a little thread here for it: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.0

Thought others may be interested to try it. So far I've only tried it with a couple of switches. I'm going to try it on one of my boards and see. If you can cut the lengths exact it should feel the same across the whole board. So far I really like the feel, better than a normal oring / double oring mod to me.

[Oobly]

This looks like the original version: http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/best_article/3354636

The pin doesn't actually bottom out, leaving a 0.8mm gap.