keyboard switches used in IMSAI IKB-1 from "Wargames" (1983) film

[acousticaPCM]

I've started to do some research into buying my first mech keyboard. this board keeps popping up for reviews so now I started reading it.
I would really like to know what sound I'm hearing.
In the 1983 film "Wargames" Matthew Broderick used a IMSAI 8080 microcomputer with IMSAI IKB-1 intelligent keyboard.
http://i.imgur.com/cfPL5pe.jpg
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102650904

What is the type of keyboard switches are in the IKB-1 ?
Is it Hall-effect, photo-optical, buckling spring, Capacitive?
 ALPS?

I'm more after the sound from the keyboard in the film rather than getting the same hands-on tactile feel.

[0100010]

No clue.  But your post has inspired me to watch the movie, so I can listen to what it sounds like.

[IvanIvanovich]

But then again, for all we know (speak up IMSAI owners) it isn't even the sound that makes, but sound effects added in... much like how monitors don't project the screen onto your face! Easy solution, capture sound and set it as the sample to use on clickeys. )

[eth0s]

I have no idea what that keyboard is, but it's one weird keyboard, and it was apparently a TKL version of the full IMSAI 8080. 



If you look closely at the one in the movie, it has blank keycaps to the right of the alpha keys (there are like 6 blank keys).  And it has no pipe bar \| key.  Which is weird, and which means to me that it was either non-IBM based technology (which would be very weird for 1983), or it was just a fake keyboard/ movie prop.

Here is pic of David Lightman's computer and WOPR in the background.  This is pic of the movie props.



I hope that it's not just a movie prop, and turns out to be a real keyboard, since it would be a cool one.  This needs some serious detective work.  Maybe start here:

http://www.imsai.net/movies/wargames.htm

[jwaz]

I'd guess Hall Effect.

[terran5992]

Damn that cool

[0100010]

I have no idea what that keyboard is, but it's one weird keyboard, and it was apparently a TKL version of the full IMSAI 8080. 

Show Image

If you look closely at the one in the movie, it has blank keycaps to the right of the alpha keys (there are like 6 blank keys).  And it has no pipe bar \| key.  Which is weird, and which means to me that it was either non-IBM based technology (which would be very weird for 1983), or it was just a fake keyboard/ movie prop.

Here is pic of David Lightman's computer and WOPR in the background.  This is pic of the movie props.

Show Image

I hope that it's not just a movie prop, and turns out to be a real keyboard, since it would be a cool one.  This needs some serious detective work.  Maybe start here:

http://www.imsai.net/movies/wargames.htm

Both the computer and that keyboard look very different in the OPs pic.

[eth0s]

I dunno, the pic I posted looks like the one in this frame from the movie.



Maybe they used multiple keyboards in the movie?  Also, I'm still not convinced it was a real working keyboard.  FYI:  not everything you see in the movies is real. 

[Mr. C]

The IMSAI 8080 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSAI_8080 was an early (1970s) S100 bus 8080 (8bit) processor computer probably running CP/M or the precursor to CP/M. Nothing IBM about it. The keyboard is probably part of a serial terminal (not manufacture by IMSAI) attached to the computer. Definitely mechanical switches on that keyboard. Start looking at 70s terminals.
Michael

[Mr. C]

The IMSAI 8080 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSAI_8080 was an early (1970s) S100 bus 8080 (8bit) processor computer probably running CP/M or the precursor to CP/M. Nothing IBM about it. The keyboard is probably part of a serial terminal (not manufacture by IMSAI) attached to the computer. Definitely mechanical switches on that keyboard. Start looking at 70s terminals.
Michael

I might be wrong about it being a terminal. But that is how most S100 bus computers were setup. Here is another link http://www.imsai.net/ More about the computer and the movie plus if you scroll down on the page, The IMSAI Garage Sale section: has keyboards and terminals for sale! No price listed.

[Mr. C]

More information http://www.imsai.net/movies/wargames.htm

"Once we received the script, Bob Walker sent a full line catalogue down to Mike for review. Mike had a chance to see what other items might be of use for the film's shooting, and selected one of our IKB-1 Intelligent keyboards as the on-screen input device. Mike acquired an Electrohome 17" monitor because of it's readability at distance, a camera requirement. We decided to go ahead and provide the requested equipment for nothing more than the promotional value and screen credits. The 8080 supplied has the Fischer-Freitas-era front panel featuring a layered screen-printed Mylar front mask rather than the early acrylic/photo-film sandwich style with its highly reflective and humidity-related cosmetics problems."

Google search for more info on IKB Intelligent keyboard, including pdf of keyboard manual http://www.google.com/webhp?nord=1#nord=1&q=imsai+IKB-1+Intelligent+keyboards

[terran5992]

Thanks for the info MR.c

Wonder anybody here has one of these

[dorkvader]

I'd guess Hall Effect.

An IKB 1 showed up on eBay a while ago, went for like $300 I think.

Anyway, at the time I looked into it. IMSAI used hall effect for some of their other keyboards, but not in the IKB 1. You can see this from the manual. You can also see placements for diodes next to every switch! It had NKRO.

Form the images, you can see they didnt use hall effect (of course) or Vintage futaba. I'll have to do some more research and see what switches they did use.

About the KB: from my earlier research, it was programmable, had a microcontroller  (intel 8035) inside it and could output in either serial (110 to 2400 baud) or parallel.

[acousticaPCM]

hey guys,
thanks for the replies. still no definite answer on what kind of switches in the keyboard for the sound when Matthew Broderick types.

thoughts on the terminal in Dabney Coleman's office at Crystal Palace?

[mougrim]

I'd really want to know what switches it used. Just discovered this good movie and all I can think is about keyboard

[snuci]

I have an IMSAI IKB-1 keyboard.  The IMSAI 8080 used in the movie actually would have used a terminal with it's own keyboard.  I have one with a Lear Siegler terminal.  The IMSAI IKB-1 keyboard came with the IMSAI PCS-80/30 computer (a later IMSAI computer) which I also own.

Here's the system it actually came with.  You will notice my keyboard doesn't have the graphics.  There were very few made and mine is an early one. The real keyboard used in the movie also didn't have a numeric keypad like those display photos show.


Here's the internal board front:


Here's the internal board back:


Here's a pic of the top of the key switch with the key cap removed along with the underside of the key cap (CTRL key):


When pressed, the plastic middle piece goes down and the two metal contacts come into contact and "clap".  Hence the sound.


That's as close to taking it apart as I get.  It's a rare keyboard... literally.

Love to hear what you guys and gals think.  Haven't seen one of those key switches before personally .

Edit: Added last picture

[0100010]

Awesome update.  Nice piece of history you have there.

[mogo]

Wow, nice job with chiming in Snuci! That was incredibly awesome of you! Now I've gotta go watch Wargames... 

[dorkvader]

Love to hear what you guys and gals think.  Haven't seen one of those key switches before personally .

Edit: Added last picture

Excellent collection and wonderful post!

Those are either stackpole switches or hitek switches (they are very similar) and appeared very frequently in terminal keyboards of the time. Everything from TI to HP used them.

edit: it's hitek. Stackpole usually has "fingers" on both sides and hitek has them on only one.

Here's an article with some information:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hi-Tek_linear

I would also like no note that your kb is in particulary excellent condition. Compare with my TI 911 terminal KB
warning: dust not for the faint of heart.

More

[jacobolus]

I really love the keycaps on all these Hi-Tek / Stackpole switch keyboards. Unfortunately I hate the switches.

[snuci]

Thanks for the replies and thanks dorkvader for the identification post.  You are correct that there were period keyboards like that but I've never noticed because those keyboards have been working great so I've never had to open them up to restore. 

In taking a quick look at my other systems, I have a Heathkit H88 and H19 that use similar key switches to the  IMSAI IKB-1.  It came out in 1978.  These are slightly different in that they look the same (fingers on one side) as the IKB-1 but these key switches look like they are individual and put together, they make up the "waffle".  The IKB-1 looks to be one solid piece.  Maybe there was more than one manufacturer?

Heathkit H88:


IMSAI IKB-1:


The other period keyboard is a computer slightly to the right of the IMSAI in my picture above (you can see wood and a part of the blue metal case) and that is the Processor Technology Sol-20.  It has a Keytronics "foam and foil" keyboard with capacitive resistance key switches for which I've replaced many hundreds of foam pads on those and Apple Lisa's (similar Keytronic keyboard as well).  I just got a TRS-80 Model II and I think I'll be in the same boat for that one too but this should probably be the topic of another discussion thread.

[dorkvader]

On that heathkit it can be one of a few things.

First there are known examples of stackpole individual switches. I think hitek too. Also, in many cases a waffle keyboard will have a few individual ones to sort-of fill in the cracks. If you looked at a switch in the middle it would be easier to tell which.

Modular hitek switches
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hi-Tek_modular

The sol 20 is a well known keytronic board. I remember reading on a person's website about replacing all the foam, was that you? Many people  dislike keytronic, but I think the old "branded" switches (which I have in a wang keyboard) are rather nice. The foam is all degraded though.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Key_Tronic_foam_and_foil

I hope that it's not just a movie prop, and turns out to be a real keyboard, since it would be a cool one.  This needs some serious detective work.  Maybe start here:

http://www.imsai.net/movies/wargames.htm

just read all of this post. It is a real keyboard. apparantly they made use of some of the IKB features in the film to get it to work like they wanted. I will see if I can find the source.

edit: it's in your link

Mike, with his cohort in programming, Steve Grummette,  had written some code to provide the illusion that Matthew Broderick was actually entering data and getting output on the monitor. In fact, the IKB-1 keyboard could be programmed with a few keystrokes to output an ASCII sequence whenever any key was subsequently pressed. This feature was employed to generate an interrupt in the off-screen CompuPro 8086-based system that Mike had used to develop much of the required output. It is that CompuPro that actually controlled the Electrohome monitor in the movie, but cued by Matthew Broderick's keystrokes on-camera!

This is why he can type so smoothly in the film.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

In taking a quick look at my other systems, I have a Heathkit H88 and H19 that use similar key switches to the  IMSAI IKB-1.  It came out in 1978.  These are slightly different in that they look the same (fingers on one side) as the IKB-1 but these key switches look like they are individual and put together, they make up the "waffle".  The IKB-1 looks to be one solid piece.  Maybe there was more than one manufacturer?

There were two manufacturers: Hi-Tek and Stackpole. There is no confirmed way yet to determine the manufacturer of an unbranded keyboard.

The appearance of individual switches in the Heathkit is presumably an artefact of the moulding process used to create the waffle, as the central keyboard area was always a single moulding.

You may find Hi-Tek's name and patent number underneath the space bar.

[mougrim]

Great! It WAS identified.

Now I want one

[fohat.digs]

I have this bad boy and have been contemplating what to do with it.

My thought was to find a really nice piece of wood for a base, but I have too many projects ahead of it.

PM me if anybody is interested in a sale or trade.

[dgreekstallion]

I have this bad boy and have been contemplating what to do with it.

My thought was to find a really nice piece of wood for a base, but I have too many projects ahead of it.

PM me if anybody is interested in a sale or trade.

Those keycaps look wonderful. I wonder if they're thick PBT or whatever...

[fohat.digs]

I wonder if they're thick PBT or whatever...

They are super-thick doubleshots.

They are so old that they may be some obsolete plastic. I think I remember seeing a 1978 date on it.

[dgreekstallion]

I wonder if they're thick PBT or whatever...

They are super-thick doubleshots.

They are so old that they may be some obsolete plastic. I think I remember seeing a 1978 date on it.

That's amazing. Some day, I would like some amazing thick PBT keycaps on my Model F like some of the Cherry and Topre boards have.

[dorkvader]

I wonder if they're thick PBT or whatever...

They are super-thick doubleshots.

They are so old that they may be some obsolete plastic. I think I remember seeing a 1978 date on it.

That's amazing. Some day, I would like some amazing thick PBT keycaps on my Model F like some of the Cherry and Topre boards have.

As far as I know, not too many companies were using PBT back in the day. You get IBM, ALPS, OKI and maybe OAK (plus a few others that are even less common like cherry). I think they were all using it for the dyesub aspect.

So on a vintage KB it's usually only PBT if it's also dyesub.

also, the model F already has thick PBT on it, so I don't even know what you're after.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I have this bad boy and have been contemplating what to do with it.

You say "Stackpole" — does it actually say Stackpole anywhere on it? Or are you just going by the design of the contacts and sliders?

Likewise we don't yet know if the IMSAI IKB-1 has "Hi-Tek Corporation" written under the space bar. I imagine it won't; though.

[jacobolus]

I have this bad boy and have been contemplating what to do with it.

You say "Stackpole" — does it actually say Stackpole anywhere on it? Or are you just going by the design of the contacts and sliders?

Likewise we don't yet know if the IMSAI IKB-1 has "Hi-Tek Corporation" written under the space bar. I imagine it won't; though.

The Stackpole version of the Atari 600XL has “stackpole” written on the inside/underside of the spacebar.

Harry, would you mind checking on that Zenith board? (I’m pretty sure that’s a Heath/Zenith thing, and I think it’s reasonably likely that it says “Stackpole” there, while having no other branding anywhere on the PCB/switch grid/etc.)

While you’re at it would you mind taking some pictures of the latching switches? I think they’re a bit different than the ones shown at http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hi-Tek_lock

The keycaps on these keyboards are really lovely. (I especially like the color keys.) Too bad I don’t at all like stiff linear switches.

[snuci]

Likewise we don't yet know if the IMSAI IKB-1 has "Hi-Tek Corporation" written under the space bar. I imagine it won't; though.

When you say "under the space bar", I am assuming it's on the waffle portion in the vicinity of the space bar and not actually on the underside of the space bar?  I hate taking space bars apart because there are times I can't get it on properly again so I guess I'll take the keyboard apart again and first hope to see something without actually needing to remove the space bar.  I only took it apart the first time when I first acquired the system to check if it was configured for serial or parallel.  There are jumpers on the top portion of the keyboard for this.
 
Anything else while I have this apart?

[blackbox]

Very interesting read. Hadn't heard about those switches before.

[jacobolus]

Likewise we don't yet know if the IMSAI IKB-1 has "Hi-Tek Corporation" written under the space bar. I imagine it won't; though.

When you say "under the space bar", I am assuming it's on the waffle portion in the vicinity of the space bar and not actually on the underside of the space bar?

No: literally the underside of the spacebar keycap.

[dgreekstallion]

I wonder if they're thick PBT or whatever...

They are super-thick doubleshots.

They are so old that they may be some obsolete plastic. I think I remember seeing a 1978 date on it.

That's amazing. Some day, I would like some amazing thick PBT keycaps on my Model F like some of the Cherry and Topre boards have.

As far as I know, not too many companies were using PBT back in the day. You get IBM, ALPS, OKI and maybe OAK (plus a few others that are even less common like cherry). I think they were all using it for the dyesub aspect.

So on a vintage KB it's usually only PBT if it's also dyesub.

also, the model F already has thick PBT on it, so I don't even know what you're after.

I don't know... I'm thinking about something like this:

Perhaps I'm wrong, I just love how the Topre caps look.

[fohat.digs]

I don't know... I'm thinking about something like this:

Unfortunately, the "gray" caps that Unicomp makes are a very "cool" gray, almost to the point of being bluish.

It would be great if they made a "warmer" gray-brown color, I think that going one step darker than a regular pearl/pebble set with a pebble/*warm-medium-gray* set would be beautiful.

Then they could make a warm-gray-neutral-olive-green case to put it in, oh, wait a minute ....

[fohat.digs]

I am reluctant to remove the spacebar because I can't see how to do it without risk. I will sell or trade this thing and I don't want to break it.

I took a flashlight and magnifying glass and the only marks that I could see inside the spacebar looked like 2 embossed capital "I"s turned sideways on each side of the center stem.

I was wrong about that date of 1978, I suppose. I got this along with a circuit board and a video card, the date must have been on one of them. These photos show a bunch of numbers, but nothing about manufacturers.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Hmmm ....

See, you've got the white numbering, and a tall waffle base, both being things that I was associating with Hi-Tek. The Stackpole-branded keyboards I've seen have had a low-profile waffle base, but the idea that the spacebar is branded on the inside is new to me and it suggests that some unbranded keyboards may indeed be identifiable.

However, the contact fingers are the design I was associating with Stackpole. What do the sliders look like from the top?

In fact, your seems to be essentially the same as HaaTa's CASI KB-2 S:

https://plus.google.com/photos/113845661925823397356/albums/5659412542152135521

HaaTa has had his space bar in a position where he could read off any branding, but probably wasn't looking in such a weird place for it.

[dorkvader]

I have this bad boy and have been contemplating what to do with it.

You say "Stackpole" — does it actually say Stackpole anywhere on it? Or are you just going by the design of the contacts and sliders?

Likewise we don't yet know if the IMSAI IKB-1 has "Hi-Tek Corporation" written under the space bar. I imagine it won't; though.

I think you misquoted there. Fohat.digs didn't actually say stackpole anywhere in his post.

If you meant to quote me, I said "hitek" based on the slider design and for no other reason than that. Obviously if I had one I'd check and see.


Did stackpole make a locking switch? If so, I haven't seen any yet. If not then it would identify some keyboards like my TI 911 video terminal definitively as hitek.

I was going by his image filenames, which all say "Stackpole" in them.

Oh I see now. I skipped over the file names when I read.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I was going by his image filenames, which all say "Stackpole" in them.

[fohat.digs]

However, the contact fingers are the design I was associating with Stackpole. What do the sliders look like from the top?

In fact, your seems to be essentially the same as HaaTa's CASI KB-2 S:

It looks exactly like those switches, with the hollow square yellow sliders. I rotated up the space bar and there are no other markings.

My layout and keycaps are different. My legends are "white"/off-white/beige where his look distinctly yellow, but maybe it is the lighting.

My stackpole assumption came from the fact that the "leaves" and "fingers" are staggered to one another.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I did want to see the sliders to make sure they're 100% the same design, as there are numerous variants. The keycaps will depend on who made them and what was ordered; we know for example that Comptec made keycaps for Hi-Tek switches, so I assume Hi-Tek did not make their own keycaps. (Cherry did, and Alps did, but I don't think all switch manufacturers did.)

The one thing I've noticed so far is that Stackpole-branded keyboards all seem to have a low-profile grid, but I'd need to double-check on that.

The two companies worked together so maybe they're indistinguishable and should fall under a single wiki topic. It's awkward, as some are branded, and most aren't — what do we do with all the ones where we can't figure out what they are?

[snuci]

Here's some more pics of my IMSAI IKB-1.  There's no markings other than a date stamp in a circle (I think).  The waffle is also definitely one piece.

Under side of space bar keycap


Under space bar (no markings)


Bottom profile


Top profile


Side profile


Only sign of marking and it should be 1977


Under Return key cap with stalk is missing by design


The mystery continues, I guess.