[IC] Nuclear Data Green Old-Skool (SA Row 3 Profile) Keycaps

[samwisekoi]

Remember this thread?

Take a look at these pictures of my Nuclear Data terminals.

This brings new meaning to the phrase "dumb terminal".  The housing includes only the high voltage drive electronics for the CRT and no electronics for processing the keyboard or refreshing the display from memory!  The interface to the outside world consists of a parallel ribbon cable sending keyboard data out and a video input for the CRT monitor.  I believe the circuitry that generates the video feed is enclosed somewhere in the peripheral boxes for the ND 812 computer, but I have no documentation and haven't reverse engineered the circuits yet.

I originally purchased just the ND 6600 terminal because damn that vintage green keyboard was cool looking.  I purchased it from The Black Hole and got it home before I realized it was mostly empty.  On my next trip down to the Hole, I picked up the remaining Nuclear Data gear that was there: the ND812 computer, peripherals and 3 ND 600 data entry terminals with nuclear instrumentation module slots.

If anyone has information about what kind of data the is returning (parallel ASCII, serial ASCII?) to save me the trouble of reverse engineering it, that would be awesome.  Any Nuclear Data 812 information in general would also be appreciated!

During the Retro DSA Group Buy we had talked about a reprise of the Nuclear Data keycaps in White-on-Green doubleshot, potentially in SA profile for maximum old skool-ness.  Maybe a couple of Cold War special keycaps, certainly large, bold, simple legends, especially a numbers-only 10-key pad.

Is anyone still interested in this?

[update 14-03-08]
MAIN INTEREST CHECK QUESTION:
Would you like a set of glossy White on Green (WoG) retro keycaps in SA profile?

POTENTIAL FALLBACK OPTION IF WE CANNOT GET 100% GLOSSY FINISH:
If and only if they cannot ALL be glossy, should we
(A) make them all semi-matte or
(B) make as many of them as possible glossy?
[/update]

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

Third+ pass of Nuclear Data keycap set.

All green. All text apart from very few arrows/icons.  No need of NUKE keys.

White on Green (WoG) SA Row3 profile; all-glossy if possible.

Possibly one optional color for very few keycaps.

[update]
Color selection:

VV Dark Green Keycaps (SA Profile All Row 3)
WA Bright White Legends
OAS Orange for just a few special keycaps
[/update]

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

Reserved.

[ApocalypseMaow]

Yep!!!

[regack]

Yes.

[Tarzan]

Absolutely interested. 

This was the first vintage set that I'd seen that really made me want to find that exact same keyboard model, even if it could never be made to work with a PC.

Can we specify that all the caps have smooth top surfaces, instead of a mix of matte finish and smooth finish like the current SA-profile group buys?

[samwisekoi]

Absolutely interested. 

This was the first vintage set that I'd seen that really made me want to find that exact same keyboard model, even if it could never be made to work with a PC.

Can we specify that all the caps have smooth top surfaces, instead of a mix of matte finish and smooth finish like the current SA-profile group buys?

I don't like mixed finishes, and last time we talked about it I thought we could get closer than Round 4 did.  SP has some new molds, so if this goes anywhere I will definitely try to keep mixing down as much as possible.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[edit]
Looking at the available SA keycap profiles, it appears we could do a 100% SEMI-matte set, but that there are some modifier sizes that are not listed as available in a gloss finish.  I have sent an e-mail to SP to verify.
[/edit]

[mashby]

I'm kinda crazy about the SA profile now that I have the Commando 23 set. Having a set all smooth would be really, really nice.

[ApocalypseMaow]

Can start the GB already :-)

[Krogenar]

I think the 23Commando set sort of filled this niche? I'd still like to see a really dark green set produced, though.

[mashby]

I think the 23Commando set sort of filled this niche? I'd still like to see a really dark green set produced, though.

That was my first thought too, but that set was more of a matte finish and more subdued green. Some of the lotus keys from that set were done with the gloss sheen and those looked really, really good. I think the darker green and the fact that they aren't matte would really set it apart.

In face, if you look at the VL kit, I think the dark green lotus might be a good match to the base color.



If I remember, I'll try and take a photo of it this weekend.

[Tarzan]

The green VL keys in the Commando set may be a little lighter than the Nuclear Data green.  I took some pics of just those keys, but I can't tell exactly what shade the ND keys are.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43865.msg1221677#msg1221677

[samwisekoi]

OK, IIRC, I proposed VV (the darkest green) keycaps with WA (the 2nd brightest white) legends.  http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/#VV,WA,VV,WA


Color mock-up courtesy of Matt3o's web tool.

Also, looking at the actual Nuclear Data keyboard, the alphas are glossy, but the space bar is matte.  I have not heard back from SP yet, but based on the best information I currently posses, and assuming all row 3 profile keycaps, we could do Nuclear Data with:

A) 100% Semi-matte keycaps OR
B) All glossy alphas and most mods EXCEPT the spacebar, 1.25, 1.75, and 2.75 mods.  That would be semi-matte for the bottom row plus both shift keys and caps and enter.  All the rest of the keyboard would be glossy.

I'd prefer option B.


Glossy keycaps shown in dark, semi-matte in light.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Tarzan]

Option B works for me.

I like that VV color!

[mashby]

Option B, unless there's an Option C where everything is glossy. 

[Latin00032]

I like the glossy dark green option.

Are they going to be all row three? I would love that.

[ApocalypseMaow]

A!!!

[Bullveyr]

Interested: Yes

[vardhana]

Interested! I prefer option B.

Since I will begin to work for the nuclear related company from April, i have to get this

[stoic-lemon]

Oh so very interested. Option B.

[Elrick]

Prefer Option A because we need that deep green colour which mimics perfectly the key-sets from that era and having it done in the SA Profile, just makes me so happy.  I hate fluoro-colours because it's usually meant for Mardi-Gras recipients and that is not a positive area concerning those within the Sydney Region.

Best to keep it conservative and serious because at that time Nuclear Oblivion was just a button press away from our destruction  .

[jil_jil32]

I'm so in, but I would prefer option A, just because it's 100% semi-matte. I like glossy SA keys a lot but if only SP can make it all 100% glossy ~~

/And by the way, the Pink lotus on Dark green key of the VL kit is in glossy VV green. And it looks really nice!

[promptcurry]

I prefer option B.

[Elrick]

Everyone needs to remember that this whole potential Group Buy here is based upon the re-development of the "Nuclear Data Green" Key-caps.  Where did it say Gay-Green, or Fluoro Green in that Title description?

Why Retro was so popular is because the colors where kept to conservative shades and it sold like hot-cakes.  This Key-set can go the same way because there is a love out there for OLD-style caps.

Plus, having the SA Profile set done to as close as the original will only make it more popular, far more than having bright colours blaring out to a tiny minority.  Always hold close to the original design when proposing a redo of timeless classics.

Why do you think 7bit held the Honeywell Group Buy to a bare minimum of colours?  Because it has now outsold any of his previous Group Buys.  Always go with what previous Group Buys have done and this one may go the same way.  Always keep the colours subdued and try and mimic the classics because they will always be popular today, tomorrow and the future.

[HoffmanMyster]

I think the 23Commando set sort of filled this niche? I'd still like to see a really dark green set produced, though.

Personally, I had no interest in the Commando set, but I would totally buy this.  Might just be me though.

[stoic-lemon]

Everyone needs to remember that this whole potential Group Buy here is based upon the re-development of the "Nuclear Data Green" Key-caps.  Where did it say Gay-Green, or Fluoro Green in that Title description?

Why Retro was so popular is because the colors where kept to conservative shades and it sold like hot-cakes.  This Key-set can go the same way because there is a love out there for OLD-style caps.

Plus, having the SA Profile set done to as close as the original will only make it more popular, far more than having bright colours blaring out to a tiny minority.  Always hold close to the original design when proposing a redo of timeless classics.

Why do you think 7bit held the Honeywell Group Buy to a bare minimum of colours?  Because it has now outsold any of his previous Group Buys.  Always go with what previous Group Buys have done and this one may go the same way.  Always keep the colours subdued and try and mimic the classics because they will always be popular today, tomorrow and the future.

Where are you getting this idea that there will be or that people want bright colours? We're talking about matt or gloss finish. And 'Gay-Green'? Really?

[Elrick]

Where are you getting this idea that there will be or that people want bright colours? We're talking about matt or gloss finish. And 'Gay-Green'? Really?

Because people here were choosing Option B, please suggest what colours do they describe other than Gayish?

It's always a worry asking people here on this forum what colours they like and sure enough the younger ones want all the 'Bright Colours' whilst the older ones want the subdued colour set.  The main reason is that we the older ones know what works over a long period of time.  Plus we don't throw away key-sets as often hence the classical sets get kept far longer than any of the abysmal childish designs.

Nuclear Green has to be just that, with no alterations whatsoever  .

[SpAmRaY]

Where are you getting this idea that there will be or that people want bright colours? We're talking about matt or gloss finish. And 'Gay-Green'? Really?

Because people here were choosing Option B, please suggest what colours they describe?

It's always a worry asking people here on this forum what colours they like and sure enough the younger ones want all the 'Bright Colours' whilst the older ones want the subdued colour set.  The main reason is that we the older ones know what works over a long period of time.  Plus we don't throw away key-sets as often hence the classical sets get kept far longer than any of the abysmal childish designs.

Nuclear Green has to be just that, with no alterations whatsoever  .

A and B aren't asking to pick colors, but to pick the finish of the keycap surface

[Elrick]

A and B aren't asking to pick colors, but to pick the finish of the keycap surface

You can't describe visual finishes other than shooting the object at different lighted angles.  Straight on, you will see almost no difference between gloss and matt surfaces, I should know because I had to renovate my kitchen with 2 different Granite finished material, both being the same colour but one section had gloss and another matt surface finish.

Colour is slightly darker with the gloss but only about 2 to 4% almost negligible, compared to the Matt finish.

[stoic-lemon]

So you think that Round 4 keys and upcoming Round 5 look gay?* I think I'm misunderstanding something here. The keys in the first post, are they semi-matt or gloss?



*Ridiculous for a grown up to describe anything other than sexual orientation using that word.

[Elrick]

So you think that Round 4 keys and upcoming Round 5 look gay?* I think I'm misunderstanding something here. The keys in the first post, are they semi-matt or gloss?

Round 4 and Round 5 keys,.... ?  First off I was never in Round 4 or Round 5 - I was only ever in the Honeywell Group Buy.

I was going to refer to Bright colours as juvenile but considering well over half of the Geekhackers here are under-age that would be insulting a large group unnecessarily.  Hence everyone understands the "Gay" term (you only have to view their choice in garish colours and designs - especially during the Sydney Mardi-Gras).  Hence when something is disgustingly garish and bright best to shorten the term to "Gay".

*Ridiculous for a grown up to describe anything other than sexual orientation using that word.

Before the 1960's the term "Gay" described anyone that was happy and care-free as just that - nothing more.  So get over yourself with what you think "Gay" actually means.

[samwisekoi]

Late at night here, and I was afraid of confusion from the two images I posted. I will replace them tomorrow, but let me just say this now:

All the keycaps will be DARK GREEN WITH WHITE LEGENDS. Option A and B are both THE SAME COLOR. The FIRST IMAGE SHOWS THE COLOR. The second image just shows which mods would have to have a semi-matte finish.  The bottom row WILL NOT, REPEAT NOT BE LIME GREEN.

Sorry for any confusion.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

p.s. Did I mention that no matter what the finish is, ALL THE KEYCAPS WILL BE DARK GREEN?

[Loligagger]

My vote's for all semi-matte.

Any chance for ergodox support?

[Elrick]

My vote goes for "GLOSSY" all round.  I have the original Filco Black Sphericals and I love them more than Jil_jil32's Commando Set, which has the matte finish.

The Glossy set is far easier to type on and move your fingers around.  Also from the original Nuclear Data pics it too looks like having an Gloss surface treatment.  Hence we need to go all Glossy on this key-set (just keeping it real like the original set)  .

[Matt3o]

As much as I'd love glossy (and in the original thread last year I proposed GLOSSY), I prefer all keys on the same finish.

Different textures just feel and look wrong and actually the color slightly changes. All keys are in the same color so you can spot the difference from the matte mods and the glossy alpha. This shouldn't event be an option, imho.

Re ROW3. Last year we didn't have some mods and "all row 3" was almost mandatory, now the SA profile is (almost) complete and we can have variable rows if we really wanted.

Also, don't forget PBT. I don't know if SP already has all the molds, but it would be about time to have a SA PBT set

[StylinGreymon]

I didn't know SA PBT was even an option...

[Elrick]

I didn't know SA PBT was even an option...

Same here  .  Go figure, why is SP now releasing all these great moulds for PBT?

[Matt3o]

I don't think they have all the molds in SA, I think the next set to be full PBT will be DCS, but I'll try to ask.

[samwisekoi]

#1  I've updated the surface finish picture.  All keycaps will be dark green with white legends.

#2  IMHO, 100% of the keycaps should be glossy IF THIS IS POSSIBLE.

#3  If all the keycaps cannot be glossy, then we need to decide whether:
a) They should ALL be semi-matte OR
b) The spacebar row plus a few more should be semi-matte and all of the alphas and other keycaps should be glossy.

So consider this [IC] as follows:

MAIN INTEREST CHECK QUESTION:
Would you like a set of glossy White on Green (WoG) retro keycaps in SA profile? 

POTENTIAL FALLBACK OPTION IF WE CANNOT GET 100% GLOSSY FINISH:
If and only if they cannot ALL be glossy, should we
(A) make them all semi-matte or
(B) make as many of them as possible glossy?

Personally, I'd put the choice of material behind the choice of all-glossy.  But as far as I know, we don't currently have any choice in material for White on Green keycaps in SA profile.  When and if we have a choice, I'll add that in as a question.

Off to update the OP with the above questions.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Matt3o]

If we can go all glossy, all glossy it is!

otherwise, all matte.

[stoic-lemon]

All glossy would be ideal.

[moogle]

_

[samwisekoi]

Now that we've cleared up the color choices, some of last night's discussion have started me thinking...

What about one or two OPTIONAL EXTRA special keys in actual nuclear green?  I mean a see-though translucent acid green radiation legend on black for the escape key.  Or a "LAUNCH" key in translucent acid green?  Make the WASD cluster with translucent legends for "nuclear" backlighting?

What are green LEDs for, if not to make a Nuclear Data green keyboard look sick?


Simulated image; not actual radiation.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Krogenar]

Now that we've cleared up the color choices, some of last night's discussion have started me thinking...

What about one or two OPTIONAL EXTRA special keys in actual nuclear green?  I mean a see-though translucent acid green radiation legend on black for the escape key.  Or a "LAUNCH" key in translucent acid green?  Make the WASD cluster with translucent legends for "nuclear" backlighting?

What are green LEDs for, if not to make a Nuclear Data green keyboard look sick?

(Attachment Link)
Simulated image; not actual radiation.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Love that idea! Maybe a DEFCON key? With DEF and CON stacked?

A scan of the green that we're are considering:

[Matt3o]

F1 through F5 should read: DEFCON 1...5

this would be also nice:



I'm not a fan of the translucent colors, but not against them.

[katushkin]

All glossy. But I would go towards the spacebar and select keys being matte if they can't do them, I think the combination would be quite interesting.

If we get them all the same row profile as well, I might actually consider joining in a full set GB for the first time

[mashby]

Regardless of the translucent option, I think having the fallout, or nuclear icons in place of the Winkey would be a nice touch. Keeping it neutral makes the Mac nerds like me from asking for a command key.  )

[Hak Foo]

Since in the end all caps end up glossy, I wonder if that's a big deal.  Maybe someone could experiment with a few and come up with a process we can use to sand them smooth without wrecking the look.

[samwisekoi]

Regardless of the translucent option, I think having the fallout, or nuclear icons in place of the Winkey would be a nice touch. Keeping it neutral makes the Mac nerds like me from asking for a command key.  )

And we Linux snobs.  Although, actually "COMMAND" fits in perfectly with the theme:


Mock-up of possible spacebar row for Nuclear Data

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[StylinGreymon]

Shouldn't there be a red button somewhere, or am I missing the point?