Possible to use Matias switches on Ergodox?

[boxfulofsanity]

So I was wondering if anyone's tried this, or if it would even work:
http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/

These fit the holes already in the PCB, but would it actually work?

(Someone with more electronics experience could probably answer this one...)

Interested in trying something different than my MX Blue's on an Ergodox.

[CPTBadAss]

They should work if the PCB has holes and pads to accept the pins. The real issue is that it'd be hard to find Alps caps for the Ergodox.

[davkol]

I've never seen anyone report using an ergodox w/ Alps *in actuality*. It's always been only a picture of one PCB with a pair of Matias Alps mounted.

[BlueBär]

The holes are slightly off, so each switch will be rotated slightly. If you have enough patience, you could adjust the holes in the gerber files to make it fully compatible. You could also be really careful and try to solder them on non rotated which is possible but will require more time as you have to fix every switch while soldering.

But yes good luck on finding keycaps. I think if you harvest 2 boards you should have enough? Not sure.

[handystack]

You might also want to consider acquiring a case and PCB set and hacking off the part of the board containing the switch connections.  You could then hand-wire your switches or even use some of Melvang's Enabler boards:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57511.0

[jacobolus]

(a) I’m pretty sure the switches are going to end up slightly rotated, unless you bend (maybe just one of?) the pins on every switch to fit. It would be possible to make an alternate design where either Cherry MX or Alps switches would fit on the same PCB, but it would take at least a little bit of tweaking.
(b) The existing acrylic switch plate for the Ergodox (e.g. the one shipped by MassDrop) is not the right shape for Alps switches (and also thicker than ideal). You might have to make your own plate design
(c) You may have trouble with stabilizers if you decide to use 2x1 thumb keys: either your plate design will need to be quite thin with holes cut out for Alps-style stabilizers, or you’ll have to find keycaps with MX mounts for stabilizer inserts, and use Costar-style stabilizers; if you go for the costar-style stabs, you can source 2x1 keycaps (either DSA or DCS) from Signature Plastics.

If you actually want to go to the trouble of redesigning PCB + plate, I’d recommend changing the design quite a bit from the Ergodox. I think there are at least 3-4 low-hanging improvements to make.

[BlueBär]

(b) The existing acrylic switch plate for the Ergodox (e.g. the one shipped by MassDrop) is not the right shape for Alps switches (and also thicker than ideal). You might have to make your own plate design

I think there is a version with PCB mount stabilizer holes, so no need for a plate.

[False_Dmitry_II]

I think the biggest problem is keycaps. The same couple of pictures someone else mentioned looked fine to me, because of the mirrored/doubled cherry positions on each position so that it could be used, with cherry switches, in either orientation made there be pins where alps could go. I've never seen anyone do the whole thing yet, however.

[handystack]

Regarding keycaps, Signature Plastics seems to have enough 1x DSA caps with ALPS mounts on hand for a few boards, but no 2x or 1.5x caps.  This is assuming that their inventory report is current and accurate:
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DSAInventory.pdf
You might shoot them an email and see if their situation has changed.

Regarding stabilizers, I do not use stabilizers for the 2x keys in my ErgoDoxes with Cherry MX switches and don't miss them; ALPS switches may or may not be so forgiving -I have no experience with them.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Actually, my vivanco, which is now white dampened alps, doesn't even have a stabilizer on its bigass enter. I don't mind it at all.

[BlueBär]

Actually, my vivanco, which is now white dampened alps, doesn't even have a stabilizer on its bigass enter. I don't mind it at all.

I have a broken left shift stabilizer on my NEC board. It's terrible.

[jacobolus]

I think there is a version with PCB mount stabilizer holes, so no need for a plate.

No need for a plate if you use MX switches. If you use Alps/Matias switches, you definitely do need a plate. (Or maybe a bunch of superglue, I guess.)

[jacobolus]

Regarding stabilizers, I do not use stabilizers for the 2x keys in my ErgoDoxes with Cherry MX switches and don't miss them; ALPS switches may or may not be so forgiving -I have no experience with them.

You certainly *can* use 2x1 keys without stabilizers. But have you tried an Ergodox (with MX switches) that did have stabilizers? It’s a dramatic improvement.

[BlueBär]

No need for a plate if you use MX switches. If you use Alps/Matias switches, you definitely do need a plate. (Or maybe a bunch of superglue, I guess.)

I never said that you need a plate if you use MX switches?
But yes you're right, you would need a plate as Alps cannot be purely PCB mounted.

[jacobolus]

(b) The existing acrylic switch plate for the Ergodox (e.g. the one shipped by MassDrop) is not the right shape for Alps switches (and also thicker than ideal). You might have to make your own plate design

I think there is a version with PCB mount stabilizer holes, so no need for a plate.

No need for a plate if you use MX switches. If you use Alps/Matias switches, you definitely do need a plate. (Or maybe a bunch of superglue, I guess.)

I never said that you need a plate if you use MX switches?
But yes you're right, you would need a plate as Alps cannot be purely PCB mounted.

You said “no need for a plate”, in the context of discussing Ergodoxen with Matias switches. I merely pointed out that that’s only true for Cherry MX, but as far as this particular discussion is concerned a plate is necessary. (Or, again, perhaps a bunch of superglue.)

[BlueBär]

The direct context were the stabilizers. Yeah it was bad formulated.

[boxfulofsanity]

Thanks for the input, everyone!
I think instead I'll opt to build another using brown switches.
The blues are a little much for me. Gonna take me a bunch of posts before I can post it to the classifieds section though Maybe it'll grow on me by then.

[davkol]

Why not simply replace the stems?

[Findecanor]

The Alps switches do not fit in the middle of each switch position. That means that the keys would be shifted a few mm here and there in various directions compared to an ErgoDox with Cherry MX switches.
The alphanumeric keys would be a mm or so up. The 1.5u vertical keys would be shifted towards the centre between the two halves leaving a gap to the alphanumeric keys, and the 2u thumb keys would be shifted into the centre of its half-keyboard while 1u thumb keys shifted 90° away.

It would require both a custom plate, and a custom case.
It would be a weird ErgoDox. Better then to make a new PCB and plate for Alps with the correct pin layout for Alps and use an existing case. Czarek's case looks good.

[gcb]

Are the matias quiet the exact same, 1:1, clone, identical to white alps with rubber from the SGI granite?

[jacobolus]

Are the matias quiet the exact same, 1:1, clone, identical to white alps with rubber from the SGI granite?

No. The dampening is done in the same way, but the rest of the switch is closer in design to “simplified” Alps / Fuhua switches. See http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKBL/SKBM_series

I find the Matias switches more tactile and slightly stiffer than the dampened cream Alps in old Apple AEK IIs (and also much wobblier; some people dislike this but I’m fairly indifferent). I’m not exactly sure how those switches compare to the white Alps kind.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Are the matias quiet the exact same, 1:1, clone, identical to white alps with rubber from the SGI granite?

The pins are though, if that's what you mean. Even most, if not all, clone alps are as well.

[boxfulofsanity]

Why not simply replace the stems?

Wait... the housing is all the same? I just need to swap the stems/springs?

[davkol]

Why not simply replace the stems?

Wait... the housing is all the same? I just need to swap the stems/springs?

Basically, all Cherry MX switches indeed do have compatible (or same) housings. If you want to swap blues and browns, only stems are different.

[boxfulofsanity]

Why not simply replace the stems?

Wait... the housing is all the same? I just need to swap the stems/springs?

Basically, all Cherry MX switches indeed do have compatible (or same) housings. If you want to swap blues and browns, only stems are different.

Awesome!!!! So good to know!

[Thanatermesis]

I can confirm that it works perfectly  

Now I need to make my desired layout! 

[jacobolus]

I can confirm that it works perfectly  

Haha, so silly. Is the guy who made that one on geekhack?

Nevermind, I see you posted it across several threads. How did you decide what height and angle to make each key? I like your method: not really production-ready, but a quick way to prototype.

[Thanatermesis]

> How did you decide what height and angle to make each key?

Just trying , specially with the not-dried-yet state of the white clay, moving it more or less seeing how it looks to fit better

[gcb]

> How did you decide what height and angle to make each key?

Just trying , specially with the not-dried-yet state of the white clay, moving it more or less seeing how it looks to fit better

thread resurrect!

just read that now and saw that video. that is amazing!

how are you liking that beast?

[bcredbottle]

Is the ALPS-compatible PCB different than the MX-compatible PCB? Could you have both MX and ALPS switches on the same board?

[Blaise170]

Holy necro. Alps and MX pins are not compatible, you can only use Blyth on the same board if it has pin holes for both like the Infinity PCB.

[bcredbottle]

I tried making a custom plate through the swill plate-building tool (http://builder.swillkb.com/) but it gave me a single-piece design. Is there anyway to make an Alps plate for an Ergodox (assuming that I get an Alps-compatible Infinity PCB)?