Author Topic: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)  (Read 107255 times)

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Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #350 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 13:26:15 »
Could you make a quick render with black on the Numpad?
From the photos the print is not OK in blue, that is why I said that "if it's well done" .
If they can make it look crisp and on the spot in black than we go black, but there must be no mistakes, if it's black it must be perfect. And I think it will look good in black, maybe I looked too much at the original mockup and I can't imagine the numpad in other color than blue :)
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Offline LechnerDE

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #351 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 13:45:10 »
Maybe we should try to go with a darker blue and if they still have the saturation problems, then just switch to black? It would mean a further delay and we may very well still end up with black, but at least it would give us the sense that we had explored all our options? I'm personally in no rush.

I think that's the best approach! I my opinion further delay doesn't matter at this point and exploring all options is more important  :thumb:


Offline MOZ

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #352 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 13:46:09 »
How about going with the GD PBT color (The same one used for the rest of the numpad)? If SP have this color available, maybe we can kindly request them to do a sample of the same numpad keys in black and this color?

Offline Grendel

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #353 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 14:26:25 »
Maybe we should try to go with a darker blue and if they still have the saturation problems, then just switch to black? It would mean a further delay and we may very well still end up with black, but at least it would give us the sense that we had explored all our options? I'm personally in no rush.

I think that's the best approach! I my opinion further delay doesn't matter at this point and exploring all options is more important  :thumb:

x2. Although I would probably be ok w/ using it as-is. I'm strongly against changing the BDJ keys to GD in the num-pad.
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Offline animaliaparadoxa

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #354 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 14:44:36 »
I'm in favour of keeping the blue we have or letting norbauer decide. Or maybe a poll is in order. Either way I'm against rushing the decision. Let's take our time and explore all options.

Offline Mercury7

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #355 on: Thu, 25 September 2014, 17:32:37 »
If a darker color means crisper legends that would be my vote

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #356 on: Fri, 26 September 2014, 02:27:19 »
How about going with the GD PBT color (The same one used for the rest of the numpad)? If SP have this color available, maybe we can kindly request them to do a sample of the same numpad keys in black and this color?

I believe that would suffer from the same saturation problems. The darker the color the easier it apparently is to get the dye to saturate into the resin properly. I'm also not sure that it would be a good aesthetic choice, as it would mean we'd lose the tone variation between the graphical and textual elements of the numpad.

Maybe we should try to go with a darker blue and if they still have the saturation problems, then just switch to black? It would mean a further delay and we may very well still end up with black, but at least it would give us the sense that we had explored all our options? I'm personally in no rush.

I think that's the best approach! I my opinion further delay doesn't matter at this point and exploring all options is more important  :thumb:

I am leaning in this direction and just made this request to SP. It shouldn't take too much longer, and it at least will allow us to feel like we explored all our options. However, SP have spent a lot of time and resources on test runs and samples for us on this buy, so if they say that two more runs of testing and samples is just too costly, I'm not inclined to push back too hard and would perhaps just tend to try to work with them on getting black legends to look as good as possible (i.e., to ensure that the registration issues are solved, including possibly slightly modifying the graphics to not come quite so close to the key face.)

If a darker color means crisper legends that would be my vote

My understanding is that this is generally the case.

Could you make a quick render with black on the Numpad?
From the photos the print is not OK in blue, that is why I said that "if it's well done" .
If they can make it look crisp and on the spot in black than we go black, but there must be no mistakes, if it's black it must be perfect. And I think it will look good in black, maybe I looked too much at the original mockup and I can't imagine the numpad in other color than blue :)

I will definitely do a new render before we finalize the decision. I'm currently traveling in San Francisco and won't be back at my home computer until Sunday, but I should be able to make a new mock-up by early next week.



Thanks for all the input, everyone. Keep any further thoughts coming. This has been very helpful.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #357 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 12:56:23 »
Here are alternate mockups with black and dark blue for the numpad nav wheel.

78472-0

78474-1

I have photos using black dye showing better registration coming from SP imminently.

Offline LechnerDE

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #358 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:06:41 »
Looking at the mockups I'd be okay with the black version.

Sure, blue would be a little better, but it's still a very unique numpad  :thumb:

Offline animaliaparadoxa

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #359 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:18:29 »
Whichever colour it is, could they try printing a circle on the centre key instead of a square with radiused corners? I know they were trying to match the dish of the key but I'd like to see how it would look true to concept.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #360 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:26:49 »
Whichever colour it is, could they try printing a circle on the centre key instead of a square with radiused corners? I know they were trying to match the dish of the key but I'd like to see how it would look true to concept.

Sorry, this is probably a more accurate representation. It turns out their deep dish keys are rounded rectangles, which is different from the CAD drawing I was working from originally.

78476-0

This is another option (though I prefer the one above):

78478-1
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:29:59 by norbauer »

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #361 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:34:41 »
First one me like :) It's OK with black
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Offline i3oilermaker

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #362 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:42:45 »
I would vote black - looks good in the mockups and will be super crisp

Offline animaliaparadoxa

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #363 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:47:06 »
Grey?

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #364 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:49:07 »
Grey?

They're concerned with saturation on the gray also. It should be OK on the small legends around the outside of the numpad (hopefully!), but large areas of full sublimation present the same problem on lighter colors.

Offline animaliaparadoxa

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #365 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:52:19 »
I guess black is our best option. I really liked the subtle light blue. Black is good enough though.

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #366 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:54:53 »
let's go with black and crisp clear legends, it doesn't make sense to try the impossible.
If the legends are clear and well centered then it is perfect
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Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #367 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 13:58:35 »
let's go with black and crisp clear legends, it doesn't make sense to try the impossible.
If the legends are clear and well centered then it is perfect

I think that's my own feeling and the general consensus at the moment (including from SP). I'm waiting on registration proofs from SP and will post them but if those look OK, I think we should be good to pull the trigger on production.

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #368 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 14:06:21 »
Really curious to see how it looks, if the legends are as good as the ones on the base set I'm more than happy :cool:
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Offline MOZ

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #369 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 14:09:30 »
My vote goes to black as well.

Offline strict

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #370 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 14:10:36 »
I dont have any skin in the game but I think black looks just as good as blue does  :thumb:

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Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #371 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 14:14:04 »
I dont have any skin in the game but I think black looks just as good as blue does  :thumb:

Looking at the mockups I'd be okay with the black version.

Sure, blue would be a little better, but it's still a very unique numpad  :thumb:

let's go with black and crisp clear legends, it doesn't make sense to try the impossible.
If the legends are clear and well centered then it is perfect

I would vote black - looks good in the mockups and will be super crisp

I guess black is our best option. I really liked the subtle light blue. Black is good enough though.

My vote goes to black as well.

OK, looks like black is the way to go then. Let's consider that the plan of record. It's probably more accurate to the original LCARS graphics anyway, which I fully endorse.

If for some reason there are problems with saturation on the gray legends, we may have to fall back to black on those too, but we'll see. If that's the case, we should probably consider colored dyes a no-go option for SP group buys in future.

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #372 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 14:27:47 »
Changing the gray legends to black is no issue, with the numpad center legend black now it goes really nice.
So I'm OK,crisp black legends are fully in the spirit of LCARS and this is why I joined this GB in the first place :thumb:
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Offline chrisq

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #373 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 16:43:47 »
Good job, looking forward to getting this set and double numpad which ever way you choose  :thumb:

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #374 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 18:16:14 »
OK everybody here is a pic of the black keys with prop registration. Note that there are still saturation issues, but they weren't calibrating the machine for that on this test, so ignore those.

78535-0

This looks pretty good to me.

Offline animaliaparadoxa

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #375 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 18:29:41 »
Based off this I'd say it's ready for production.

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #376 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 22:09:16 »
Same here :) Make it so ! and Engage ;)
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Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #377 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 22:11:18 »
Same here :) Make it so ! and Engage ;)

Done! Thanks everybody. :)

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #378 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 22:57:38 »
Yeeeey !!!! :D
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Offline mogo

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #379 on: Tue, 30 September 2014, 23:51:37 »
This is my most coveted keyset. I have to get into the next GB! Agh!  :eek:

Offline MOZ

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #380 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 05:57:01 »
Looking real good.

Offline taylordcraig

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #381 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 10:33:00 »
I would vote for going with the current color. However, it is essential that the legends line with the edges, even off by a bit and it would look considerably bad.


I totally agree. If the numpad ends up mediocre, I will never use it. This would be really unfortunate because I think this set looks best on a fullsize board!

After waiting for so long we shouldn't take any shortcuts and settle for the second best solution just to get the set a little earlier.

If it doesn't work with blue let's go for black so it's at least consistent with the rest of the alphas.

I'd love to see the full set on a LightSaver!  :eek:

I would have preferred the blue if it matched the darker blue keys, but am fine with it either way.
@chris: i have a v1 and a v2 lightsaver I'll show it on.
I have a black gon ns87 lined up as its permanent home though. :D So that makes the numpad less important to me.

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #382 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 11:36:32 »
I have only 60% but I will buy a Numpad only for this set :cool:
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Offline chrisq

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #383 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 12:34:07 »

I'd love to see the full set on a LightSaver!  :eek:

I would have preferred the blue if it matched the darker blue keys, but am fine with it either way.
@chris: i have a v1 and a v2 lightsaver I'll show it on.
I have a black gon ns87 lined up as its permanent home though. :D So that makes the numpad less important to me.

Thanks, I'm sure it will be awesome!  :eek:

Offline mogo

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #384 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 16:21:16 »
I have only 60% but I will buy a Numpad only for this set :cool:

I was thinking the exact same thing.  :thumb:

Offline x

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #385 on: Wed, 01 October 2014, 23:51:36 »
i bought this set without the numpad. is there anyway to get a numpad with my order?

Offline LechnerDE

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #386 on: Thu, 02 October 2014, 00:00:17 »
i bought this set without the numpad. is there anyway to get a numpad with my order?

No, the ordering phase is over.

But since Techkeys will have them in store, you could PM i3oilermaker to reserve one numpad before everything sells out. I have the feeling Techkeys will sellout very quickly because many people regret not joining this GB ;)

Offline mogo

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #387 on: Thu, 02 October 2014, 14:11:20 »
Is there any possibility of another GB coming around for it soon? <_<

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #388 on: Thu, 02 October 2014, 14:19:49 »
Is there any possibility of another GB coming around for it soon? <_<

This group buy hasn't even went to full production phase yet so I wouldn't hold your breath on that. But as was just mentioned above techkeys.us will have sets once they are done.

Offline D01

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #389 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 11:10:48 »
Black looks like crap.

Offline animaliaparadoxa

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #390 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 11:40:34 »
Black looks like crap.
OK. Thanks for the input.

Offline mogo

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #391 on: Sat, 04 October 2014, 16:11:59 »
Black looks like crap.

Welcome to the forums Negative Nancy. Care to rephrase or elucidate?

Offline D01

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #392 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 09:14:46 »
Black looks like crap.

Welcome to the forums Negative Nancy. Care to rephrase or elucidate?

The mock up with black stands out like a sore thumb compared to the blue.  It looks completely our of place.

Offline DanielT

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #393 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 09:31:08 »
@D01: if you would have followed the discussion in the thread you would have understood why we settled for black... Instead of insisting on blue and ending with a crappy non saturated print we chose black for a crisp legend, besides the black legend is in the trues spirit of the LCARS interface.
If you are part of the GB you should have expressed your opinion before e decision was taken, and come with a proposal for an alternative.
This design created a lot of technological challenges, it was a first from so many points of view and the limits for the dye sub process were pushed to the limit in order to get one amazing key set  :thumb:
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Offline Grendel

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #394 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 12:03:04 »
Dang, too late. Have to agree, the black printed pad creates a very unpleasant dark spot :( Even w/ slightly uneven saturation the blues look way better. Have to wait to see it in real life, I just hope all the waiting wasn't in vain.
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Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #395 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 13:15:46 »
Dang, too late. Have to agree, the black printed pad creates a very unpleasant dark spot :( Even w/ slightly uneven saturation the blues look way better. Have to wait to see it in real life, I just hope all the waiting wasn't in vain.

I am extremely sympathetic to where you're coming from on this, but having seen them in person I can say with some confidence that people would have been disappointed by the blue numpad. The uneven saturation looked totally unprofessional, very much not in line with what we're paying for these. And SP's paper supplier was adamant that there was no possible way to get better saturation.

If only they could match dyesub and double shot techniques within one material. Oh well. I think the end result is going to be the best result possible given the materials and methods available to us which we have all, including SP, had to learn along the way.

Offline Grendel

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #396 on: Mon, 06 October 2014, 14:36:33 »
Fair enough. Could we get a blank numpad "5" cap along w/ the printed one ? (I did order blanks, but the "5" cap is a deep-dish (?)) I like the color balance in the mockup w/ a blank cap better.
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Offline taylordcraig

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #397 on: Tue, 07 October 2014, 03:24:30 »
Fair enough. Could we get a blank numpad "5" cap along w/ the printed one ? (I did order blanks, but the "5" cap is a deep-dish (?)) I like the color balance in the mockup w/ a blank cap better.

I think this deep dish blank would be a good compromise for people who think the black is too much.

Offline D01

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #398 on: Tue, 07 October 2014, 14:21:09 »
@D01: if you would have followed the discussion in the thread you would have understood why we settled for black... Instead of insisting on blue and ending with a crappy non saturated print we chose black for a crisp legend, besides the black legend is in the trues spirit of the LCARS interface.
If you are part of the GB you should have expressed your opinion before e decision was taken, and come with a proposal for an alternative.
This design created a lot of technological challenges, it was a first from so many points of view and the limits for the dye sub process were pushed to the limit in order to get one amazing key set  :thumb:

I've been following, and understand why black was settled on.  Still think black clashes bad.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 October 2014, 14:23:31 by D01 »

Offline norbauer

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Re: [GB] The Galaxy Class set (Ordering CLOSED)
« Reply #399 on: Tue, 07 October 2014, 15:28:10 »
Fair enough. Could we get a blank numpad "5" cap along w/ the printed one ? (I did order blanks, but the "5" cap is a deep-dish (?)) I like the color balance in the mockup w/ a blank cap better.

I think this deep dish blank would be a good compromise for people who think the black is too much.

I would recommend starting an after-market group buy for this on PMK, like someone recently did to add relegendables to the Nuclear data set.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 October 2014, 15:32:12 by norbauer »