[RANT] OMG I hate ABS so much

[ceflame]

PBT > POM > ABS
Rough texture > Fine texture > No texture

I'm actually like the complete opposite. I've never tried POM, but the rough texture from Vortex's PBT Doubleshots starts to hurt my hands after a while (using blues).

[tp4tissue]

i don't find the texture to be "important".

abs shiny will stick a bit sometimes, during humid weather / hot weather / serious gaming time/   but it's really not enough that I could blame them for performance drops..



I prefer the thick pbt only because the stem is well made/ smooth/ and looser, which makes the keytravel down very smooth.

[TheSoulhunter]

For me the texture is more a "comfort" thing and not about performance...
The sticky feel of non textured caps makes me think the caps are dirty/filthy.

[jdcarpe]

For me the texture is more a "comfort" thing and not about performance...
The sticky feel of non textured caps makes me think the caps are dirty/filthy.

"Grippy" not "sticky."

[archer]

Does the texture on a SP ABS key wear down into a shiny, smooth surface quickly? I own a couple SP sets, but haven't used them enough to have any shine.

And my 2c for this texture debate is that generally, PBT has a better texture on it compared to ABS. The one exception to this rule: GMK ABS. I love the way GMK ABS feels over any other keycap material.

[JustDownloadMoreRAM]

Just say no to ABS

I prefer the sandpaper feel, and want as much texture for as long as possible personally.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I love no shine and the PBT feels.

DS ABS Cherry caps feel even better when they get that shiny texture. It is very easy to type on them, and the greasy feeling help to "grip" on the caps.

The shiny, greasy texture is the exact reason I'm still on the fence about the current GMK group buy. I have some GMK keys, but seeing (and having to use) glass-smooth-with-finger-gunk-surround ABS keys
 at work is stopping me from spending that much on a keycap set.

[laffindude]

You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

This. ABS = awesome.

[noisyturtle]

ABS aren't so bad. It's just the thin or poorly manufactured ones give others a bad rap. Plus it's a pain in the butt to find a decent DS PBT set now a days (still.)

[Puddsy]

A lot of people are neglecting the fact that PBT will still develop a shine. It just takes a lot longer than it does with ABS caps.

[Danule]

A lot of people are neglecting the fact that PBT will still develop a shine. It just takes a lot longer than it does with ABS caps.

Very true.  I have had my realforce for a little over a year now and it is beginning to develop shine on some of the most used keys.

I like both PBT and ABS.  PBT can be a bit harsh on fingers as it is a harder plastic,  But abs can tend to stick to your fingers if they get sweaty.  Depends on what you are into.

[Oobly]

A lot of people are neglecting the fact that PBT will still develop a shine. It just takes a lot longer than it does with ABS caps.

Very true.  I have had my realforce for a little over a year now and it is beginning to develop shine on some of the most used keys.

I like both PBT and ABS.  PBT can be a bit harsh on fingers as it is a harder plastic,  But abs can tend to stick to your fingers if they get sweaty.  Depends on what you are into.

POM.... Just go POM....

No hardness, no stick... Fast typing, good feeling. Much happiness. Wow.

 

I like 'em all if the caps are good quality and nice profile.

i don't find the texture to be "important".

abs shiny will stick a bit sometimes, during humid weather / hot weather / serious gaming time/   but it's really not enough that I could blame them for performance drops..

Show Image

I prefer the thick pbt only because the stem is well made/ smooth/ and looser, which makes the keytravel down very smooth.

What are you talking about? Stem area accuracy doesn't affect the switch feel at all since there is no moving contact between keycap and switch.... (unless they're REALLY badly made and the stem area is too large and contacts the upper switch housing, but I have yet to use a cap that does that).

[Justintoxicated]

Meh I really like the quality of the doubleshot ABS keycaps on my blackbird because the LED lighting emits out of the letters perfectly and gives them a a very nice look, they feel good and type really well too.  I think it must be the extra thickness that helps them out. However I don't mind the texture of PBT on the FC660C either, they are both very nice IMO. 

Now cheapo ABS keycaps I do not like. Thin, printed, or painted keycaps just don't have the same feel or look!

[Danule]

Currently i have yet to try pom. But my favorite so far is cherry profile doubleshot abs. Pbt is nice but a bit harsh.

[tp4tissue]

Currently i have yet to try pom. But my favorite so far is cherry profile doubleshot abs. Pbt is nice but a bit harsh.

Bro, do you even Lift?

[fuzzybaffy]

Gotta agree with the OP. For a bit I was actually using a set of ABS caps from WASDKeyboards instead of a set of dye-sub PBTs from Imsto, because I wanted caps in OEM profile (PBTs from Imsto are Cherry profile). Then after a while I just got tired of the texture of the ABS keys - it was like wearing a pair of really uncomfortable shoes, functional but just really uncomfortable - and then switched back to the PBTs from Imsto.

It was an instant improvement, and it made me wonder why I went with the ABS caps from WASD for the sake of OEM profile, to begin with. Maybe I just wanted to test them out, and/or thought I would get used to the different texture of ABS.

So, yea... PBT = 1,000,000x better than ABS. IMO, of course.

[bueller]

Gotta agree with the OP. For a bit I was actually using a set of ABS caps from WASDKeyboards instead of a set of dye-sub PBTs from Imsto, because I wanted caps in OEM profile (PBTs from Imsto are Cherry profile). Then after a while I just got tired of the texture of the ABS keys - it was like wearing a pair of really uncomfortable shoes, functional but just really uncomfortable - and then switched back to the PBTs from Imsto.

It was an instant improvement, and it made me wonder why I went with the ABS caps from WASD for the sake of OEM profile, to begin with. Maybe I just wanted to test them out, and/or thought I would get used to the different texture of ABS.

So, yea... PBT = 1,000,000x better than ABS. IMO, of course.

Don't let that turn you off ABS all together, WASD caps are probably the nastiest ones available IMHO. Check out a GMK set and you'll see what all the fuss is about.

[fuzzybaffy]

Gotta agree with the OP. For a bit I was actually using a set of ABS caps from WASDKeyboards instead of a set of dye-sub PBTs from Imsto, because I wanted caps in OEM profile (PBTs from Imsto are Cherry profile). Then after a while I just got tired of the texture of the ABS keys - it was like wearing a pair of really uncomfortable shoes, functional but just really uncomfortable - and then switched back to the PBTs from Imsto.

It was an instant improvement, and it made me wonder why I went with the ABS caps from WASD for the sake of OEM profile, to begin with. Maybe I just wanted to test them out, and/or thought I would get used to the different texture of ABS.

So, yea... PBT = 1,000,000x better than ABS. IMO, of course.

Don't let that turn you off ABS all together, WASD caps are probably the nastiest ones available IMHO. Check out a GMK set and you'll see what all the fuss is about.

True. I should have mentioned that not all ABS are the same. Perhaps I will check out a GMK set one day! Thanks for the FYI.

[SpecTP]

I bought some WASD key caps from WASDkeyboards.com and they lasted about 2 months.  All the lettering have worn off.  Are there better options out there for a heavy gamer like me?

[tbc]

anything is better than WASD.

you're going to want to checkout taihao keysets.  but i'm pretty sure ypu have to buy the whole set, not just wasd.

keypop.net

[Oobly]

To add some fuel to the fire I have some Cherry profile PBT caps which I really don't like at all... They came on a Cherry G80-3000LCQEU-0 I recently purchased. I prefer my SP ABS caps by a good margin.

They're really thin and cheap-feeling. It's really more about the weight of the caps for me, it seems. The heavier doubleshot SP keycaps feel a lot better than the light lasered PBT Cherry caps, even though I prefer the Cherry profile to the SP DCS profile.

Current favourite caps are medium thickness OEM profile POM blanks, but I am currently using some SP ABS (Nostalgia set) since I need the legends and I suspect the GMK thick ABS caps I have ordered will take the throne when they arrive.

The new Vortex doubleshot PBT caps look very interesting, too. Thick doubleshot PBT with nice fonts and very Cherry-esque profile. There is now also a WoB set in addition to the colour sets: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=774

[quadibloc]

PBT and POM may be harder than ABS, which does mean that they're better, but I find ABS - at least if the legends are achieved by double-shot molding - quite adequate.

Another hard plastic - but, sadly, not suited either to double-shot molding or to a range of colors - is Bakelite. I think that's what the square keys on an old Flexowriter are made from...

A really hard material - and one which would protect the legends on the keys, thus eliminating the need for double-shot molding - would be some type of glass, if one were thinking of getting really fancy. But that has the drawback of having to wipe oil from one's fingers off the keys all the time, even if it would wipe off easily.

Marble or polished granite, I think, we will have to leave out of consideration.

[minho]

Marble or polished granite, I think, we will have to leave out of consideration.

All you bored DIY-ers out there, I think we found you a new project.

[nukec]

So I just put a set of Vortex thick white on black DS PBT caps on my Code keyboard, and HOLY **** IT'S LIKE SEX ON MY FINGERTIPS. How does anybody stand ABS keycaps? They just feel so, ugh... flimsy and fake and just stupid.

Stupid ABS and their stupid feeling stupid keycaps.

</rant>

Just had to get that off my chest.

I agree with this ranter
Check my new baby http://imgur.com/a/Abfi6

DSA PBT caps. I am not sure waiting for DCS profile too, but default was DCS, still don't know what feels beter between those 2 profiles I think you have more control with DCS.

[daerid]

I couldn't really do DSA. I really, really wanted to because I love the way they look. But I had major accuracy problems and had to go back to DCS.

[Riptide]

You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..

[absyrd]

You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..

GMK has a nice green, but you'd have to wait on a massive interest check then group buy to go through...

[Riptide]

You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..

GMK has a nice green, but you'd have to wait on a massive interest check then group buy to go through...

you cant just buy it?
can you send a link? thanx!

[rowdy]

You aren't using the right ABS caps, sir. GMK/Cherry thick ABS are the best. PBT is teh yuck.

excuse me, self confessed noob here... you got me curious... What are GMK/Cherry thick ABS keys are? Looking for a lime green keycaps maybe i could get them in that quality..

GMK has a nice green, but you'd have to wait on a massive interest check then group buy to go through...

you cant just buy it?
can you send a link? thanx!

GMK is a German commercial keycap manufacturer, and need hundreds of orders for keycap sets before they will start making them.  Usually they need thousands of orders for one set, but Ivan was able to negotiate with them for a lower MOQ for GH.

[taylordcraig]

QUOTE FROM SKYPE

[9:49:33 PM] taylor craig: i thought i loved pbt raw texture but this buttery smooth feeling of penumbra is amazing...
[11:05:39 PM] taylor craig: okay actually typing on it feels kinda weird. just poking at it felt really nice though
[11:05:40 PM] taylor craig: idk its kinda nice
[11:05:44 PM] taylor craig: fk
[11:06:11 PM] taylor craig: 
[11:50:57 PM] taylor craig: I'm in love with Penumbra.
[11:50:59 PM] taylor craig: Please help.
[11:51:14 PM] *: Deal with it
[11:51:55 PM] taylor craig: HOW DOES THIS ABS GARBAGE FEEL SO GOOD
[11:51:55 PM] *: Comment in daerids thread

Here I am.
To tell you thick ABS is so delicious.
At least SP's SA profile.
I have a GMK Dolch set coming.

[CaptLock]

I;ve only tried ABS

[rowdy]

I;ve only tried ABS

You don't know what you're missing

[myrddin]

I have abs and pbt, really the only difference that I care about is how badly PBT warps.

Personally, I would be happy if the keys came with a completely smooth surface to begin with, I don't need help gripping them, and it isn't like the surface affects my ability to type.

[iLLucionist]

Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.

Why? What's so awesome about POM? (zero experience with POM, only ABS/PBT)

[Crazyhendrix]

I actually like the feel of smooth ABS. I just bought a poker ii---like an hour ago. I like it, but the texture on the keycaps compared to my clicky QFS is somewhat distracting. Maybe it's cause I prefer typing on the Cherry MX green more than browns. Gotta keep the peace at home in the night though.

[Daspartic]

I like ABS, but give me PBT all day err day.

[Oobly]

Honestly POM are pure perfection.  It baffles me that they never caught on.

Why? What's so awesome about POM? (zero experience with POM, only ABS/PBT)

It's the densest keycap material, so it dampens high frequency sounds well and makes for the heaviest caps. IMHO this makes them feel higher quality than other materials. Also, my fingers glide over them so nicely, due to the surface feeling of the material regardless of actual surface texturing. It's almost like teflon, but doesn't ever feel "sticky" like smooth ABS.

It's also slightly flexible, so has good dampening properties, reduces bottom-out shock and changes the release noise to be less harsh.

POM just rocks.

@Crazyhendrix: If you like Greens, I think you'd prefer Clears to Browns. More tactile and stronger springs.

[GSimon]

I actually like the feel of smooth ABS. I just bought a poker ii---like an hour ago. I like it, but the texture on the keycaps compared to my clicky QFS is somewhat distracting. Maybe it's cause I prefer typing on the Cherry MX green more than browns. Gotta keep the peace at home in the night though.

The Poker is not the best representative for PBT in terms of texture because the legends are top printed, so you're feeling that in addition to the PBT cap.

[katushkin]

The problem for me is finding ISO sets of the DS/PBT sets I like. I bought a vortex blue/white DS set from MK.com but no ISO I can't seem to find decent sets on a regular basis.

Admittedly I only have one ISO board, but it's also the only one with WASD caps. Thats why I have them, because it was the easiest place to find an ISO set.

[Oobly]

The problem for me is finding ISO sets of the DS/PBT sets I like. I bought a vortex blue/white DS set from MK.com but no ISO I can't seem to find decent sets on a regular basis.

Admittedly I only have one ISO board, but it's also the only one with WASD caps. Thats why I have them, because it was the easiest place to find an ISO set.

If you can settle for dyesub thick PBT you could get a Ducky ISO set for it... They're also OEM profile, but at least they're MUCH nicer than WASD caps.

[Crazyhendrix]

@Crazyhendrix: If you like Greens, I think you'd prefer Clears to Browns. More tactile and stronger springs.

I did read up on the Clears. However, I have no intentions of either soldering Clears onto a 60% KB. Besides, getting an off the rack keyboard with the 60% form-factor is kinda remote atm. So, I settled for the Browns---which I did use for like 2 weeks. It isn't bad. I could type faster with it than the Greens, but with more typos.

@GSimon: I thought about the legends contributing to the roughness of the keycaps. I'm not dissing PBTs. In fact, the thickness of the caps on the Poker seem to muffle the bottoming out 'thunk' sound compared to thin ABS on the QFS. I'm easily satisfied. PBT or abs, as long as the switches are nice, the form factor puts the mouse nearer to my hands, I'm good. It's better than using a rubber dome for the matter.

tl;dr version: I like smooth ABS just a little more than PBT. I could live with either.

[tbc]

they have poker II with clears on massdrop.  they just finished, but this is their second in a month i believe.  it'll most likely be back many times over.

the era of no 60% clear boards is gone

[Crazyhendrix]

they have poker II with clears on massdrop.  they just finished, but this is their second in a month i believe.  it'll most likely be back many times over.

the era of no 60% clear boards is gone

NOOOOooo! I don't need another keyboard! I would love to try the clears though.... must fight the temptation.

[Hitcha]

After your try PBT caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to zero texture ABS.

[Skull_Angel]

After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy 

[Oobly]

After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy 

Oobly likes this. Still have yet to find a switch / keycap combo that feels better to me than trampoline modded 62g ErgoClears with POM caps.

[AuRinBei]

After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy 

What POM have you used that is that super incredible? I don't think I've ever seen thick POM. I use rainbow jellies, and while they are better than ABS, they feel very similar to my thick vortex PBT in terms of texture. I prefer the Vortex though because they much thicker and make a better sound.

[Skull_Angel]

After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy 

What POM have you used that is that super incredible? I don't think I've ever seen thick POM. I use rainbow jellies, and while they are better than ABS, they feel very similar to my thick vortex PBT in terms of texture. I prefer the Vortex though because they much thicker and make a better sound.

I bought an alpha set off a Cherry G81 from Signature Plastics (I forget the story behind why they have them) and they feel amazing. They may be laser etched, but that's pretty easily overlooked by the fact that they're thick and Cherry profile (not to mention POM  ), I'd be using them now if I couldn't get over the double-shot Skull Squadron DSA set I picked up.

I also have a set of OEM profile POM from a PLU MLG-3000-NKRO. They're thin caps, but still feel heftier then most standard stock ABS, the texture on them isn't as great as that of the Cherry POM caps either, imo (the Cherry POM also have less shine than the PLU caps when new).

edit; I haven't checked out Vortex's caps so I can't make any comparisons there, sorry.

[Oobly]

After your try Cherry POM caps, you're spoiled for life. Really hard to go back to anything else.

Ftfy 

What POM have you used that is that super incredible? I don't think I've ever seen thick POM. I use rainbow jellies, and while they are better than ABS, they feel very similar to my thick vortex PBT in terms of texture. I prefer the Vortex though because they much thicker and make a better sound.

Genuine Cherry POM lasered caps (from a G81-3000). Unfortunately, it's alphas only (spacebar, caps lock, etc are not compatible with most ANSI boards). I also have some Keycool POM blanks which feel very good to me (probably very similar to your rainbow set), even though they're OEM profile and only medium thickness.

Really hoping for Ivan to run a thick POM group buy soon, maybe through PLUM. He's using them for the Pitch Black thick PBT Cherry profile sets. Maybe once the GMK Dolch GB is over.

[limitz]

Lol, this thread is the definition of a first world problem.

I have SP ABS, I have GMK ABS, and I have Vortex PBT. They all have their different feels, but in no universe would I rant about hating "ABS so much."

[GSimon]

Lol, this thread is the definition of a first world problem.

I have SP ABS, I have GMK ABS, and I have Vortex PBT. They all have their different feels, but in no universe would I rant about hating "ABS so much."

This lol. It's like those who say "omg I've tried every switch, blues, clears, browns...none of them feel right to me!". I think there's a line between having a certain preference and being overly critical, many seem to cross that line.