Keyed Up Labs KUL ES-87 with MX Clears

[lightsout714]

Thinking about selling mine not super loving the clears. That or get it modded. But cash is low. I hate losing $18 in shipping though on a keyboard.

[ajx]

what about legend from ABS keycaps?
Do they last against wearing off overtime?

[Puddsy]

what about legend from ABS keycaps?
Do they last against wearing off overtime?

no

but the only legends that'll for sure last forever are doubleshots

most dyesubs will last at least 50 years of daily use

but doubleshot is forver

[ajx]

I mean couple years of lasting would be enough for most of users lol
Some ABS crap legend might wear off within couple days/weeks

[Puddsy]

my legends were gone in like a month

[midnightmare]

The cherry stabs in the KUL don't suck as much as other boards

Agreed, I guess it's because the Clears take quite a bit of force anyway, so it's harder for me to notice. The stabs feel great to me though

[nobee]

what about legend from ABS keycaps?
Do they last against wearing off overtime?

Mine are starting to fade too and it's only been a month.

No matter since I'm putting GMK Dolch on it soon anyways.

[berserkfan]

Stancato9 spent many messages arguing with me that doubleshots could be rubbed off. Never underestimate the power of noob ignorance and stubbornness. If someone is convinced that dyesubs wear out after a month, the only solution is to buy these from him cheap and tell him you're doing him a favor.

[Puddsy]

Ivan actually did the math once.

He said that if used daily, for 8 hours a day, at 70 WPM, dyesubs would last longer than switches under the same conditions. (with some fading, of course)

[nobee]

Stancato9 spent many messages arguing with me that doubleshots could be rubbed off. Never underestimate the power of noob ignorance and stubbornness. If someone is convinced that dyesubs wear out after a month, the only solution is to buy these from him cheap and tell him you're doing him a favor.

He was convinced that doubleshots wear off or dyesubs? I'm confused... you mentioned both. If it was doubleshots, I would've love to hear that side of the argument...

[berserkfan]

Stancato9 spent many messages arguing with me that doubleshots could be rubbed off. Never underestimate the power of noob ignorance and stubbornness. If someone is convinced that dyesubs wear out after a month, the only solution is to buy these from him cheap and tell him you're doing him a favor.

He was convinced that doubleshots wear off or dyesubs? I'm confused... you mentioned both. If it was doubleshots, I would've love to hear that side of the argument...

Topic was doubleshots originally.

But the noob stubbornness thing applies to dyesubs also.

After all, theoretically, everything wears down eventually. I can also claim that Cherry clear stems wear down and become linear - which I'm sure they will, after 50 years, so you're not going to be able to take your favorite keyboard to your grave.

[Novus]

after a month my backspace and enter keys are squeaking pretty badly

so that's a thing

Oh yea so what happened with this?
I forgot did you have another issue with the board aside from the squeaking?

[Puddsy]

No other issues.

I need to put something other than a bro on ESC, but that's my fault for selling it lol.

[mdf]

Did you desolder the space switch to clip the stabs?  Or is there a quicker/easier way?

[LechnerDE]

Man, I want a KUL as well.

I hope they really release a MX blue version in September!

[CommonCurt]

Man, I want a KUL as well.

I hope they really release a MX blue version in September!

Have they mentioned that there is one with blues coming in Sept.?

I'm also waiting for one with blues.

[LechnerDE]

Somebody in the thread mentioned it.

Apparently the MX blue version will be released with the colored case tops.

[Puddsy]

I've read in a few places that the MX blue variant is coming in September, with the colored case tops.

This is not a case of

[HybridCore]

This is false.

Are you sure? From the looks of it you can take off the upper part of the Cherry MX assembly because you have access to the 4 clips holding it on. Just get that off (there's a few youtube videos of it) and you should be able to swap the stems and springs.

Unless the plate holds it in place then I guess it's PCB mount only.

[Flyersfan1]

This is false.

Are you sure? From the looks of it you can take off the upper part of the Cherry MX assembly because you have access to the 4 clips holding it on. Just get that off (there's a few youtube videos of it) and you should be able to swap the stems and springs.

Unless the plate holds it in place then I guess it's PCB mount only.

He's right, even though the 4 clips are accessible, the top will not be able to be removed without completely desoldering the switch from the plate.  I can't think of any stock oem plate mounted switch keyboards that allow for switch top removal, you might be able to find a universal tkl plate that you could replace with the stock one though. 

[Puddsy]

you can't put the top part back on

it's so that manufacturers can tell if you've been in the keyboard if you **** up and break it

[lightsout714]

For anyone waiting for them KUL said on FB that the case tops got pushed back. They weren't perfect and are getting retooled. I'm happy to see they are not rushing an inferior product

[nathanrosspowell]

I just picked this board up yesterday and I'm going to use it at work. A nice upgrade from the Lenovo rubberdome.
Right away the feeling of the 'raised' legends are bothering me, but it might just be that my previous board was fairly worn in.
I'm trying out the caps<->ctrl switch for the first time. Positioning wise it feels great but my muscle memory is making me shout in emails a lot right now
I'm impressed with the weight and the build quality. Maybe I'll update with some more thoughts when I've had it for longer.

[irecresum]

KEYED UP LABS!

thank you fans

Brian.

- "Better than a Filco" -

[LechnerDE]

KUL, Y U NOT RELEASE MX BLUE VERSION?

[CommonCurt]

KUL, Y U NOT RELEASE MX BLUE VERSION?

+1

[Puddsy]

No word from my people

so it's a soon^tm for now

[dante]

KUL, Y U NOT RELEASE MX BLUE VERSION?

No word from my people

so it's a soon^tm for now

My body is ready...

[Hypersphere]

Good review, eyesmiles!

Just got my Kul ES-87 with mx clears. This is the first time I have tried clear switches, and I didn't like them at all. I tend to bottom out on all other switches, but clears punish your fingers for attempting this. To me, the switch feels like mush with sand in it. I was glad to get back to the 55g Topres on my RF 87u and the capacitive buckling springs on my IBM XT board.

Apart from the switches, one thing I didn't like about the Kul ES-87 itself was the mini-USB connector in a recessed area on the underside of the board. It is very difficult to get a standard mini-USB plug into the recessed receptacle. Luckily, the connector on the furnished cable is shorter than normal, enabling it to fit, but it is still not a smooth operation to plug or unplug the keyboard from the cable. While there is something to be said for cable routing, I would prefer to have an easy to reach connector on the back of the case rather than on the underside.

If I could find a Cherry mx switch that I liked, the Kul ES-87 board would be okay. The quality appears to be on par or better than TKL boards from CM or Filco. I really appreciate the abundance of DIP switch settings, which enabled me to bypass using software to swap CapsLock and Control, Alt and Win/OS, Fn and Menu, and even Backspace and Backslash. All the keycaps for these swaps were provided, although I would want to replace the stock lasered/infilled ABS caps with a dye-sub PBT set.

Another plus for the Kul is its ready availability through several different sources, including EK, Mechanicalkeyboards.com, and Amazon. The price is also reasonable and free shipping is available through MK and Amazon Prime.

[cruzin]

Good review, eyesmiles!

Just got my Kul ES-87 with mx clears. This is the first time I have tried clear switches, and I didn't like them at all. I tend to bottom out on all other switches, but clears punish your fingers for attempting this. To me, the switch feels like mush with sand in it. I was glad to get back to the 55g Topres on my RF 87u and the capacitive buckling springs on my IBM XT board.

Apart from the switches, one thing I didn't like about the Kul ES-87 itself was the mini-USB connector in a recessed area on the underside of the board. It is very difficult to get a standard mini-USB plug into the recessed receptacle. Luckily, the connector on the furnished cable is shorter than normal, enabling it to fit, but it is still not a smooth operation to plug or unplug the keyboard from the cable. While there is something to be said for cable routing, I would prefer to have an easy to reach connector on the back of the case rather than on the underside.

If I could find a Cherry mx switch that I liked, the Kul ES-87 board would be okay. The quality appears to be on par or better than TKL boards from CM or Filco. I really appreciate the abundance of DIP switch settings, which enabled me to bypass using software to swap CapsLock and Control, Alt and Win/OS, Fn and Menu, and even Backspace and Backslash. All the keycaps for these swaps were provided, although I would want to replace the stock lasered/infilled ABS caps with a dye-sub PBT set.

Another plus for the Kul is its ready availability through several different sources, including EK, Mechanicalkeyboards.com, and Amazon. The price is also reasonable and free shipping is available through MK and Amazon Prime.

Yeah the cheap caps were the only real knock I had on mine. I imagine it would feel a lot better with PBT caps.

[CommonCurt]

KUL, Y U NOT RELEASE MX BLUE VERSION?

Looks like MechanicalKeyboards.com will be getting some KUL ES-87's with MX-Blues in the next month or two 

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1069

[LechnerDE]

KUL, Y U NOT RELEASE MX BLUE VERSION?

Looks like MechanicalKeyboards.com will be getting some KUL ES-87's with MX-Blues in the next month or two 

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1069

Thanks!

I will keep my eyes open

[Puddsy]

yeah it seems like things are actually moving at KUL now

i was gonna post about it, but you got to it first

[Puddsy]

backspace stab squeaking was fixed

it was just misaligned, probably when i put the gmk on it, since that's when i noticed it

[Hypersphere]

Some additional observations after having tried two Kul ES-87 boards, one with mx clears and the other with mx reds.

1. I have finally decided that I do not like the feel of stabilized keys with Cherry stabilizers. It is some what easier to change keycaps on stabilized keys with Cherry stabilizers thatn with Costar-type stabilizers and it is possible to improve the feel of Cherry stabilizers by doing the "clip mod", but this entails desoldering. After recently comparing the Kul ES-87 boards with a WASD V2 87 with mx browns, I have determined that I much prefer the feel of stabilized keys with Costar-type stabilizers.

2. My second Kul has some relatively cosmetic imperfections in the case finish.

Although I like the overall solidity of the Kul and some of its features, such as the abundance of DIP switch settings, if I were to buy another Cherry mx TKL board, it would most likely be a Filco or WASD.

[sorijealut]

Just purchased a EK-87 w/ reds from EK!

I currently have Filco MJ2 with reds (that I will be selling to a friend) so it will be interesting to compare (although I don't think I'll have it side-by-side by the time it arrives).
What kind of difference can I expect from wire stabs vs. Cherry ones? Could I lube this type of stab to reduce the possible squeaks?
I lubed my Filco ones so they did become quieter, but they weren't exactly perfect, especially the backspace.

[Puddsy]

You can lube cherry stabs, but you have to desolder. I had squeaking, but because I broke a stab by being dumb.

[dante]

Some of the squeaking seems unforgivable for a brand that tries to promote themselves as top tier.  Voiding your warranty by opening the keyboard shouldn't be a solution to the problem.

[sorijealut]

Yeah I'm not quite at the level of soldering/desoldering so that's a bit of a let down.
I really do like the feel of lubed costar stabs, but keycapping and fitting seems like kind of a bother. Filco's spacebar in particular feels and sounds really nice with soft thunks.

[Puddsy]

Some of the squeaking seems unforgivable for a brand that tries to promote themselves as top tier.  Voiding your warranty by opening the keyboard shouldn't be a solution to the problem.

I have seen nobody else but myself complain about it, and I only had it because I was dumb.

If you've seen other people complaining about squeaking, please show me.

[Puddsy]

ok so everything started squeaking all of a sudden today

ill do a teardown this weekend to see what's up

if anyone has extra krytox please send it my way

[sorijealut]

ok so everything started squeaking all of a sudden today

ill do a teardown this weekend to see what's up

if anyone has extra krytox please send it my way

That's not good... maybe it's in your head 

[ThomasBastiani]

Some of the squeaking seems unforgivable for a brand that tries to promote themselves as top tier.  Voiding your warranty by opening the keyboard shouldn't be a solution to the problem.

I have seen nobody else but myself complain about it, and I only had it because I was dumb.

If you've seen other people complaining about squeaking, please show me.

after a month my backspace and enter keys are squeaking pretty badly

so that's a thing

Tell me about it. It drives me up the wall! I thought that lubing the switches/stabilizers would fix it. I haven't tried yet though.

I've certainly complained about it! Still haven't done anything about it. Maybe I should try taking of the squeaky keycaps and re-setting them. Still backspace & enter for me.

[telegraphist]

Would be a well-rounded review if included the author's impression of the Cherry MX clears of this board for those of us who aren't familiar with these relatively uncommon switches.

[eyesmiles]

Would be a well-rounded review if included the author's impression of the Cherry MX clears of this board for those of us who aren't familiar with these relatively uncommon switches.

My original intention of doing a brief overview of the ES-87 with MX Clears was simply to allow people to see the internals, type of stabilizers, and its compatibility for swapping key cap sets without having to buy one themselves. Mainly to take a risk, fork over the money but provide relevant information for people that most sites fail to include.

I could talk about how I feel about MX Clears, but that wasn't the point of what I was going for. If you search MX Clears, you'll come up with a plethora of reviews, many of which generally say the same thing.

I suppose I could do a brief update post:

I still have the KUL but have done a few things. I clipped the stabilizers. I desoldered all switches and lubed them. The stock springs still remain in the Clears. The spacebar now has a tactile MX Grey. The LED indicators which were originally blue, I changed to 3mm white LEDs. I am still waiting for KUL to release their top panels. Been eyeing the white one ever since it was first mentioned.

Looking at MK, they show on their incoming page a Smoke version of the KUL-ES 87. Judging by the images, it looks to be a dark grey case instead of the all black. No mention of it though on the KUL official site.
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1115
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1116

It's interesting after all this time, people still visit this thread as there are many reviews and videos online that are available now. I'm wholeheartedly glad it still continues to provide people information.

[telegraphist]

Would be a well-rounded review if included the author's impression of the Cherry MX clears of this board for those of us who aren't familiar with these relatively uncommon switches.

My original intention of doing a brief overview of the ES-87 with MX Clears was simply to allow people to see the internals, type of stabilizers, and its compatibility for swapping key cap sets without having to buy one themselves. Mainly to take a risk, fork over the money but provide relevant information for people that most sites fail to include.

I could talk about how I feel about MX Clears, but that wasn't the point of what I was going for. If you search MX Clears, you'll come up with a plethora of reviews, many of which generally say the same thing.

I suppose I could do a brief update post:

I still have the KUL but have done a few things. I clipped the stabilizers. I desoldered all switches and lubed them. The stock springs still remain in the Clears. The spacebar now has a tactile MX Grey. The LED indicators which were originally blue, I changed to 3mm white LEDs. I am still waiting for KUL to release their top panels. Been eyeing the white one ever since it was first mentioned...

It's interesting after all this time, people still visit this thread as there are many reviews and videos online that are available now. I'm wholeheartedly glad it still continues to provide people information.

Thank you for your reply, eyesmiles.
Your post is indeed remains among those pushed up of the list of reviews and naturally people select it to read, if interested.
Everyone has their specific interests though. Mine include clear switches: I've ordered a set a long time ago to convert my CM board with reds and fix broken left Alt switch, but noted that soldering isn't an easy task I thought it would be. At least with flux and soldering gun I have purchased It looks like the temperature has to be controlled within a certain range, as well as flux has to be better. That's why I admire your ability to do such modification yourself. I think I'd need to ask a fellow geekhacker to help me with this type of work.
Have a good one. And more popular interesting reviews to you!

[Hypersphere]

One thing I didn't like about my Kul keyboards was the Cherry stabilizers. I have sold both of the Kul boards, and I got a WASD V2 87 Barebones with mx browns. I like the WASD far better than the Kul, in part because of the Costar-type stabilizers -- they are smooth, they don't rattle, and the stabilized keys feel crisp and even. The WASD came with a tube of lube, and because it was barebones (no keycaps), before I installed keycaps I lubed the stabilizers. After you get the knack of changing keycaps on Costar-type stabilized keys, it is really quite easy, and I think they provide a much better typing experience than Cherry stabilizers do.

[Puddsy]

All of my boards with costar stabs rattle like hell, and I've tried everything.

Cherry boards have been quiet for the most part, if a little mushy when I bottom out.

[sorijealut]

When from my MX red Filcos I ordered and compared the MX red KUL side by side, I was stunned by cherry style stabs.
The initial impression was that costar stabs felt much better. It allowed longer keys to have the same feels as normal keys, whereas Cherry style alters that feeling.
Has anyone else also thought the restricted movement creates an illusion that key travel is shortened?
It does not have the bottom-out sound like the Filco, which is a nice "thock". I found my fingertips searching for that feedback and my typing rhythm was thrown off.

But... I like to find appreciation in all styles before dismissing. So, before long, I liked the Cherry stabs better.
My reasoning is that the modifier keys feel better this way with more resistance which makes it easier to press without bottoming out.
When using my Filco, I found myself bottoming out on strokes. I'm not sure if key profile or low profile of the keyboard has to do with this, but the KUL felt so much easier on my fingers since I could half press the keys, no longer looking for that bottom-out feedback. It takes some of that impact on my fingers, relieving fatigue and even increasing my speed.
I realized it's OK for keys to not have uniform feel. In my typing style, I find it better to quickly tap these keys and move on with typing.
Anyway, I also agree that there was quite a bit of rattle and pinging in my Filcos, which always bothered me. Lubing did not help. Cherry ones simply do not have any.

[sorijealut]

Smoke Black w/ Cherry MX Brown/ MX Blue KUL ES-87 are now available at EK to preorder.
Smoke Black case w/ gold legends.

ETA Dec. 22
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless