[IC] Northern California (geek)hackerspace?

[mkawa]

As many of you know, I have a large number of tools, including a small CNC-ready mill, full electronics workbench, shop air, 3d printer, power and hand tools. i also have a limited set of labware.

As somewhat fewer of you know, I will be moving up to northern california next month. up to now, this stuff has been trapped in my apartment, taking up approximately 1/3 of my apartment. With the move, comes an opportunity. My goal with this gear, which is about 30-40% owned by geekhackers.org, has always been to make it as available as possible to the geekhack community. Up until now, that has been pretty difficult, as I can't really allow 24 hour access to my apartment .

Anyway, my idea is to move towards establishing a hackerspace in the SF Bay Area for us by us. It would have to operate on a subscription basis to pay for the space, with the kind of training system that is used at other hackerspaces. This space could also be used for geekhackers.org operations.

I know we have a pretty large contingent of bay area users. I'm also pretty acutely aware of how much space costs in the bay, so I would need buy-in from that pretty large contingent of users to get this going. Can people weigh in on this?

[hwood34]

Dammit, you cali people get all the good stuff

[Krogenar]

Have you considered working with an already established hackerspace? Maybe they could provide the space for your tools, and in return, they could offer discounted (or even free) memberships? I found one hackerspace in California that seems to be, I dunno, "more north" than some others.

http://www.davismakerspace.org/

That's in Davis, California -- not sure how far that would be for the Northern Cali. contingent of GHers.

As for SF, they seem to have a number of hackerspaces. Maybe move your tools to their location, and orchestrate a passive takeover of the group by means of an influx of GH members. Is that evil? Ok, yeah, but only a little bit. 

Some other hackerspaces I found:

https://www.noisebridge.net/
https://sudoroom.org/

Both are in SF.

[CPTBadAss]

I'd be interested in breaking your stuff whenever I'm in the Bay.

[Melvang]

If I was anywhere close I would be all over that like fat kid on a cupcake.

[geniekid]

Move to Chicago.  Kthxbai.

[exitfire401]

If/when I move to the area (More of a matter of when at this point in time as the wife wants to go out that way when we're done with school as well) I'd be completely interested.

[Spopepro]

Guess I need to de-lurk now.

I think this is a grand idea, but... It might be a real challenge to make it work. The Bay Area is flush with options for hackerspaces/makerspaces. However, I don't frequent any of them and the reasons are the ones you'll have to solve.

I live 2 blocks from noisebridge. I basically never go. As a hackerspace done by cryptoanarchists there's no fee, loads of crazy equipment, and everything I've ever tried to use has been broken. I've met a ton of cool people, which is awesome, but I can't really use the space for anything. The sudo room is supposed to be better, but even more computer related. Even further is any of the coderdojos.

There are multiple TechShops, including one about 6 blocks from my house. I don't belong to these either. At over $1K per year plus needing to pay for SBU classes before you can use each piece of equipment, it's just too expensive for how often I would use it. Same thing with the sawdust shop down in the South Bay.

I've found that it's often *not* worth it to do it myself. Acrylic laser cutting is $90 an hour at pagoda arts and that means I can just hand over files and materials and not have to guess about power, speed, and fight with Corel, which is what TechShop requires. There are multiple cnc routing shops in the area and I'm talking to for my next project where they are providing expertise so I don't have to run through tons of material screwing up.

So, all of that is to say... my interest is high, but it would have to fit in the box of: not too expensive (maybe around $50 a month?), stuff that works, good access hours, and enough equipment--and you have the constraints of space costs, liability insurance, and how to manage the space, people, and equipment. I'm pulling for you, and am willing to help a bit, but it's going to be tough.

[jwaz]

A collab with Noisebridge, Sudo Room, etc could be an option but while I've been to both spaces I don't hold membership or have any contacts at either. Though I think Jesse from keyboard.io is pretty contected to the Noisbridge crew.

Finding, renting and maintaining a space might be pretty tough with a small close-knit contingent of geekhackers. If someone had a garage like space which was close to BART that would be ideal. A lot of SF artists/ bands have practice spaces in West Oakland, this is something sth would know more about. Some don't think too highly of Oakland 

Anyway, just throwing some ideas around. I'd really love to have a meet up/ work space. I'll ping haata amd see if he has any insight, I know he has quite a bit of equipment and works mostly out of techshop.

[samwisekoi]

Hmmm. I have just moved from a large flat house with a big garage in which I kept a workshop full of wood- and metal-working tools.  I am now in a three-story place with our actual cars in the garage.  So I am trying to figure out where and how to set up my personal workshop.  Maybe at my office, maybe elsewhere.

The above is to say that I might have some tools to add to the pile, depending on how/if this sorts itself out.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Heliosphere]

I may be interested. I've always wanted access to machining tools because my house lacks any useful for crafting. However, I'm a college student so a subscription fee is iffy depending on the cost. I also have access to some machine tools on my campus, so it would depend on how convenient the hackerspace would be in comparison.

[mkawa]

davis is an hour+ away from most bay area folks.

i'm not interested in conglomming with another hackerspace other than subletting our own private space.

curious how much we'd be looking at for a garage-sized piece of CRE though. ron?

[divito]

Dammit, you cali people get all the good stuff

I second this sentiment.

[Melvang]

Dammit, you cali people get all the good stuff

I second this sentiment.

That's it I'm moving to Cali.  No wait, to many goofy ass strict laws other on gun control and emissions.  I am moving to south western oregon

[CPTBadAss]

Ya'll are looking at this all wrong. If this happens, we can do a Keycon West yearly or maybe even biannually. Bring your boards, projects, selves over and break everything in kawa's shop during the weekend!

[mkawa]

the car community has come up with a very large book of tricks for dealing with emissions

STOP TALKING ABOUT BREAKING THE TOOLS CBA. NO BREAKING NO BREAKING NO BREAKING

[CPTBadAss]

If I'm involved, there will be stuff breaking. Just saying.

[mkawa]

unfortunately, i'm well aware that this is true

[divito]

Just bubble wrap CPT and put him in the corner while we all play.

[HoffmanMyster]

I wanna break things...      I have a garage in eastern WI you could set up in if you'd like...      Seems fairly central to the country to me.

[Spopepro]

As far as cost goes, where are you thinking? In my hood you're probably looking at 20 bucks per square foot if you want wiring and a somewhat secure spot. Options increase if you go further out. Next to bart is awesome, but again makes it more expensive. Gimmie what you have in mind and I can poke an acquaintance in commercial real estate to get a clearer picture.

[slickmamba]

Ahh, you're moving?  Maybe I should have delayed sending the domos!  Now you have more stuff to pack, haha.

[mkawa]

we have a lot of people in the east bay and a lot of people on the peninsula. halfway between would be kind of nice. most of the super industrial areas in that area have become hoity toity office space now though. when i was a kid, hayward/fremont were solidly industrial, and there were tons of small CRE lots in complexes with the loading-dock style entry. i have no idea how much of that is still left though, and more importantly, not being occupied by startups of some kind. to some extent, we just need a garage where we can make a lot of noise and not bother anyone. i don't see a need for 220v, which would be a tricky bit. we will almost certainly need more than 15A 110v though.

[Melvang]

You will want more than 15 amp per circuit.  Especially if there will be people running more stuff than what you have currently.  No need to go real high but I would shoot for 20 amp circuits.  Hell my PSU fully loaded can pull 7 on its own.

[dorkvader]

Make sure to save money by replacing the copper wiring with aluminium.

[Melvang]

I may not be an EE but I am not sure aluminum wire is code legal for residential or commercial wiring.  Plus I am not sure if I would trust it for heavy loads.

[jacobolus]

I live 2 blocks from noisebridge. I basically never go. As a hackerspace done by cryptoanarchists there's no fee, loads of crazy equipment, and everything I've ever tried to use has been broken. I've met a ton of cool people, which is awesome, but I can't really use the space for anything. The sudo room is supposed to be better, but even more computer related. Even further is any of the coderdojos.

Yeah, I spent some time hanging out at Noisebridge a couple years ago. It suffices for basic projects, but I don’t think you could make substantial use of shop tools without serious frustration. Also, it’s way too distracting inside for me to be productive.

There are multiple TechShops, including one about 6 blocks from my house. I don't belong to these either. At over $1K per year plus needing to pay for SBU classes before you can use each piece of equipment, it's just too expensive for how often I would use it. Same thing with the sawdust shop down in the South Bay.

If you consider the machines, maintenance, staff, and liability insurance costs, I think TechShop is quite reasonably priced. Especially if you don’t know how to use the equipment already. But yeah, it needs fairly heavy use to be worthwhile; I think they might benefit from other membership structures beyond monthly rates (e.g. selling packs of 10 one-day passes, or similar).

They do have a special deal until tomorrow to buy a 20-class coupon for $900 (as a member), which works out to $45/class, which is much cheaper than the standard prices for most classes, and the 20 coupons can be used by anyone (so a group of people could pool together for it). https://secure.techshop.ws/memberships.cfm?step=select_offer

Acrylic laser cutting is $90 an hour at pagoda arts and that means I can just hand over files and materials and not have to guess about power, speed, and fight with Corel, which is what TechShop requires. There are multiple cnc routing shops in the area and I'm talking to for my next project where they are providing expertise so I don't have to run through tons of material screwing up.

I spent a few hours cutting stuff on the TechShop laser cutter... it’s not at all hard to figure out Illustrator or Corel Draw.

What’s your recommendation on CNC routing shops? What kind of capabilities/pricing do they have?

[mkawa]

personally, i think you're better off with laser than a typical cnc router. even the nicer shopbots are really just wood and plastic. they don't have the torque and can't hold laser-like tolerances on metals, and the most they could process is thin sheet anyway. for plastics and mdf, look for  100w laser, and for metals, find a good 1-2kw shop.

this is one of the reasons i never considered a cnc router. a tiny mill is much more useful for the kinds of one-off small parts that you want to make out of billet metals but can't justify mill shop costs for. i like the 100w laser tables, and you can get some that are fairly inexpensive, so if we find a space, that may be a cool thing to consider. the cut on those is thin, and the better ones can hold good tolerances on up to 1/8" acrylic, which is a nice general purpose building material.

anyway, a fellow on the board has contacted me about potential inexpensive north county CRE. this would as far as santa rosa/sonoma/san mateo, or possibly as close as martinez, vallejo, san pablo? i am also curious how prices in alameda are right now.

[Spopepro]

There's a place open in an industrial park in Hayward that's about 85 cents per sqft. It's 1400 sqft, has onsite management, is right off 92, and at an ca transit bus stop (critically the M, which goes from Hayward Bart to hillsdale Caltrain. I still need to chat with some people to figure out realistic monthly costs, but it appears a good place in a nice location can be had for less than 2k a month, including utilities. I'll update with details as I get them.

[mkawa]

that's not bad at all. please keep me updated on that one.

[Heliosphere]

I would prefer a location in Santa Clara or Mountain View, since Hayward is about 45 minutes away. Unfortunately, the Bay Area is huge so it's impossible to satisfy everybody.

[mkawa]

CRE in SC, MV anywhere on the peninsula is RIDICULOUSLY expensive.

[Heliosphere]

CRE in SC, MV anywhere on the peninsula is RIDICULOUSLY expensive.

Yup unfortunately. I'll just wait and see what you end up deciding.

[mkawa]

how do people feel about north bay/north east bay?

[jacobolus]

Anywhere inaccessible by transit is going to be much less useful.

[Puddsy]

If you move before Christmas I'll do my best to make an appearance during the holiday season

I'll be in socal, so it might not happen

[mkawa]

believe it or not, the bus system in the east bay and north county actually works pretty well

[Puddsy]

it's mostly a "will my parents let me" thing

[jacobolus]

By North Bay do you mean Marin? Because getting from anywhere else in the Bay Area to anywhere in Marin is a huge pain, unless you have a car.

If you put it somewhere in the East Bay right near a BART stop, that would be alright. The closer to SF the better. :-)

[mkawa]

hah, marin is exactly the opposite of cheap real estate. north richmond, martinez, vallejo, and to the west, potentially as far north as sonoma. the north east bay is much easier to get to via public transportation. so is wayy east -- san mateo might be a possibility, but hayward/fremont is probably going to be cheaper..

much like the forum itself, it's really a question of herding the mice who are willing to put the money and time into the effort into the venture while at the same time finding the right space for lease.

[DubbTom]

what about east bay around walnut creek-pleasant hill or san Ramon-Dublin. it would be close to bart as well

[mkawa]

yah, that's an option. iirc real estate in that area is much better than south bay. hayward area maybe? there's also that super industrial area near the coliseum.

[DubbTom]

If feel like as you get closer to altamont-livermore the prices would get pretty cheap. Maybe something off vasco would be pretty convenient even if it a little bit from bart.

[mkawa]

agreed. imo it's more convenient than the southbayers would think as well..

[mkawa]

the other odd place i was thinking of was the industrial bits of alameda (the municipality, not the county). afaik alameda is still basically industrial and is inexpensive.

[DubbTom]

Are you talking about near the Hornet Museum/Bladium area? If so, I know that there's a bunch of run down warehouses there and abandoned buildings there. Maybe you can get lucky and pick up something cheap around there. (It would also be fairly close to UC Berkeley which would be nice  )

[mkawa]

so things have changed quite a bit here. i took a job in cambridge, MA and will be starting there in september. to that end, i'm going to leave the makerbot rep2x aka the smallfry bot at ron's offices: 724support/standsure systems. i will be bringing the sherline 4-axis milling machine with me, as well as all my other heavy machinery, and will be renting a place large enough and isolated enough for my apartment to continue being the lab. photoelectric and dork vader will be in the area, so we'll see how available we can make the lab there.

so, upshot is we don't need to rent commercial space in northern cal (which as everyone has pointed out, is insanely expensive). however, my planned collaborative hackerspace in northern california idea is going to have to go on the shelf for a while

[jacobolus]

How long are you staying in the Bay Area? We should get together to chat sometime before you leave. (Maybe we can get HaaTa to put together another meetup this month.)

If they could only fix the weather, Cambridge would be a really nice town. Unfortunately, it’s only nice to be outside in May and October.

[mkawa]

We're trying to do an end of the month meetup