WHAT TOPRE BOARD DO I BUY (bought one, HHKB)

[johndavis33]

OK, so I made a similar thread to this a while back. Probably about 6 months. The thing is, I still haven't made my decision.

I want to buy a topre switch board, and I need a portable board to use with my x220t that I run linux on. So, it seems like the hhkb is the choice right? But, I don't know if I'll like it's layout, and the fc660c looks really nice as well. It's even got the equation for capacitance written on it. I'm a physics major, and I find that just friggin cute. I've also heard it's built more solid than the hhkb. But if deciding between these two boards wasn't enough, I'm not even sure if I'll like topre that much! I'm used mx greens and whites, and 45g sounds way too light. Especcially considering I find blues/reds/browns unusable due to how light they are.

I'd like to have the board before september rolls around and I'll be back at college, so it's getting to chrunch time. I was hoping by now that one of the two boards would have a 55g version out now to make my decision easier, but not yet. Has anyone tried, or bought, both, and can give me a comparison? Are the switches on one lighter than on the other by any chance? I've heard topre switches can vary like that.

inb4 buy both, don't wanna buy two boards with switches I'm not sold on

[osi]

Vim user - Get HHKB

Don't use Vim? - FC660c

[johndavis33]

Vim user - Get HHKB

Don't use Vim? - FC660c

Can you elaborate as to why? I don't use vim or emacs because I don't code, but I may start in the future.

[kohi]

I've never tried a FC660C, but I've heard both are solid. the difference being that the HHKB has case mounted switches and the other is plate mounted (660C) which is why it might often be considered more 'solid'. I've heard a good number of people on GH say that the FC660C was the best 45g topre board they've tried in terms of feel - but ofc it's totally subjective. Yes, the 45g topre switches are fairly light, but personally, I feel like they are a tad bit heavier than red/browns due to the actuation point coming in at the top of the switch and cup rubber haha. the layout was a bit weird for me at first (basically just the backspace bar being positioned right on top of the enter key), but I got used to it pretty quickly - very ergonomic lol

or 55g realforce lol, although no 60%

[kohi]

whoops posted twice lol

[intelli78]

I have multiples of both, and the FC660C was my daily driver up until very recently. Now, I've switched to HHKB. In my opinion, it comes down to the arrow keys. In the past I wasn't ready for the transition to Fn-layer arrow keys on the HHKB, and thus I stuck with the Leo. Indeed, the Leo is extremely solid and it's a fantastically built board. (current models also tend to have stiffer domes than the HHKB) 

However, I slowly came to appreciate and become more practiced with the HHKB's arrow keys, and I now strongly prefer them. Although they are still sometimes inconvenient when doing heavy spreadsheet work, in general use they really are superior to dedicated keys because you don't have to move your arm/elbow to access them. I can't emphasize the importance of this enough.

I would say the FC660C trumps the HHKB in terms of build quality, but the HHKB is not that far behind, and it wins on aesthetics. It also sounds better in my opinion.

So, in my view, it comes down to your preference on arrow keys. I'd suggest making your choice mainly on that. Good luck.

[Beca]

You might want a 55g realforce if you are satisfied with the weight of mx greens. You COULD mod a Leopold FC660C or HHKB with the 55g domes if you really wanted that form factor and look, but the price would be pretty hefty.

[johndavis33]

You might want a 55g realforce if you are satisfied with the weight of mx greens. You COULD mod a Leopold FC660C or HHKB with the 55g domes if you really wanted that form factor and look, but the price would be pretty hefty.

If I had infinite money, I'd go with the 55g dome mod. The only reason I'm not really considering the 55g realforce is that it's too big to fit in a back pack along with my laptop.

[cooldiscretion]

"If I had infinite money"

If I had a nickel for everytime I said that.

[johndavis33]

"If I had infinite money"

If I had a nickel for everytime I said that.

If I really had infinite money, I'd just make a laptop with mechanical switches myself.

[clacktalk]

I'm a sucker for 60% boards, and I think your preference comes down to two things: the arrow keys and board dimensions. The arrow keys on my FC660C are very convenient compared to the Fn arrow keys on my Poker II. I'm not fully accustomed to the Poker II layout, and that could be because it's only used when I'm out. This might not be relevant since the HHKB has a different layout for its Fn arrow keys.

The FC660C is also noticeably longer than the Poker II (and also the HHKB, but I can't speak from experience). I travel with a tiny hiking backpack, re-purposed to only carry a notebook, MBA and keyboard. The HHKB will fit in my backpack, zipped inside a soft case (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001OLU5HC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), but my FC660C is too tall for both the case and backpack. The HHKB surely beats out the FC660C in spacesaving (~1.34" difference in length). That being said, the length of the keyboard is negligible if you have the backpack for it.

Even though I do enjoy my FC660C (and its arrow keys), I have just recently bought an HHKB Type S because I do want to switch over from Sublime Text 2 to Vim, and the simplicity/aesthetics of the layout is unparalleled. Although, the high price tag on the Type S is spurring me to sell my board. I would also enjoy infinite money :]

[Justintoxicated]

I use the arrow keys way to much to use an fn layer, or so I think anyways.  Well maybe I could get used to an FN layer I dunno, but I also like having the delete and insert key as well.  I bought mine for coding in and IDE.  But the FC660C + dental bands and lube is quite a nice feeling and sounding board.  I love mine!  You can pop the switch housing right off the plate to lube the stabs.  I also removed the extra spring in the spacebar on mine.

Negatives are that I miss having dedicated F keys a bit, and CRTL-SHIFT-ESC does not work out of the box.  So it's almost perfect other than the CRTL-SHIFT-ESC, since missing the F-keys is subjective.

It was a good keyboard before the dental band mod but now I look forward to doing work or just practicing typing in general due to the amazing feel and sound.

[osi]

Vim user - Get HHKB

Don't use Vim? - FC660c

Can you elaborate as to why? I don't use vim or emacs because I don't code, but I may start in the future.

Sure. If you were a vim user already, It is a natural assumption that the dependency on the use arrow keys has been somewhat cast aside already. In other words, having no dedicated arrow keys shouldn't even cross your mind. Non-issue

Makes the decision easier because you'll be getting a great board either route. I haven't experienced it yet but more than a few have sang the praises of the Leo offering one the best feelz for a topre offering.

Leo is cheaper out the gate, even with those new sexy dye subs. Small learning curve if first 60% board

Hhkb4lyfe though

[Mainian]

I have owned both, and I settled on the fc660c layout. They both have their advantages and their disadvantages. I did not like the arrow layout on the hhkb pro 2. (I just did find it comfortable to use for hours on end, but I really did enjoy the delete/backspace location!).

Honestly, they are both amazing keyboards if you like Topre. I just really wanted the dedicated arrow keys though (it was painful to use the HHKB arrow layout with 1 hand for me). Both look good, price difference lends itself in favor of the fc660c, but that doesn't matter when we are talking about mech / topre boards!.

@The people saying HHKB vim ... do you really not write GUI applications?!

[SSIPAK]

Do you need arrow keys? If yes, go with FC660C. If not, go with HHKB.
You cant go wrong on either of them 

[ValerieV]

I agree with those that say it comes down to the arrow keys. I have both keyboards. However, i prefer the HHKB because it does sound a little bit better to me. I am thinking about selling my Leopold and it has hardly been used. I like the smaller HHKB. I do kind of miss the arrows but you get used to the setup without them.

[rowdy]

+1 for FC660C if you want/need arrow keys.

If a white FC660C had been available when I was buying, I would have snapped one up just like that!  As it was, I found a good deal on a secondhand HHKB and, surprised that no-one else had bought it for a few days (from an online auction site), I snapped it up.

No regrets either way

[jameslr]

BUY THE ONE WITH THE WORKING CAPSLOCK KEY

kidding aside - I'd go for the HHKB 

[HPE1000]

BUY THE ONE WITH THE WORKING CAPSLOCK KEY

kidding aside - I'd go for the HHKB 

Imma steal your thread here for a second

Do you like your HHKB or Realforce 55g more? Only talking about actual switches/typing feel. Layout doesn't matter to me at all. (I like the weight to my 67g clears and 68g blacks the most and I dont really like red switches weight)

[jameslr]

BUY THE ONE WITH THE WORKING CAPSLOCK KEY

kidding aside - I'd go for the HHKB 

Imma steal your thread here for a second

Do you like your HHKB or Realforce 55g more? Only talking about actual switches/typing feel. Layout doesn't matter to me at all. (I like the weight to my 67g clears and 68g blacks the most and I dont really like red switches weight)

I like the RF87U 55g best of all. The HHKB has a unique feel to it that is even quite different than a uniform 45g Realforce.

[Elrick]

BUY THE ONE WITH THE WORKING CAPSLOCK KEY

kidding aside - I'd go for the HHKB 

Imma steal your thread here for a second

Do you like your HHKB or Realforce 55g more? Only talking about actual switches/typing feel. Layout doesn't matter to me at all. (I like the weight to my 67g clears and 68g blacks the most and I dont really like red switches weight)

I like the RF87U 55g best of all. The HHKB has a unique feel to it that is even quite different than a uniform 45g Realforce.

MUST agree here the 55g Realforce, is to die for.  Once you use it then all other Thorpies are lame and pathetic compared to this model alone  .

[rowdy]

BUY THE ONE WITH THE WORKING CAPSLOCK KEY

kidding aside - I'd go for the HHKB 

Imma steal your thread here for a second

Do you like your HHKB or Realforce 55g more? Only talking about actual switches/typing feel. Layout doesn't matter to me at all. (I like the weight to my 67g clears and 68g blacks the most and I dont really like red switches weight)

I like the RF87U 55g best of all. The HHKB has a unique feel to it that is even quite different than a uniform 45g Realforce.

Maybe the case-mountedness has something to do with that.

[DasHHKBProM]

.

[dustinhxc]

Check out the HHKB Pro JP

[CaptLock]

Next keyboard I want to tryu is a Topre

[dustinhxc]

Next keyboard I want to tryu is a Topre

Yeah I think everyone should try it. I'd love to get a JP soon.

[ckar]

BUY THE ONE WITH THE WORKING CAPSLOCK KEY

kidding aside - I'd go for the HHKB 

Imma steal your thread here for a second

Do you like your HHKB or Realforce 55g more? Only talking about actual switches/typing feel. Layout doesn't matter to me at all. (I like the weight to my 67g clears and 68g blacks the most and I dont really like red switches weight)

I like the RF87U 55g best of all. The HHKB has a unique feel to it that is even quite different than a uniform 45g Realforce.

MUST agree here the 55g Realforce, is to die for.  Once you use it then all other Thorpies are lame and pathetic compared to this model alone  .

Are you exaggerating? If what you are saying is true it makes me hesitant to try a new keyboard, if might not ever be as good as the 55g Realforce.

[osi]

BUY THE ONE WITH THE WORKING CAPSLOCK KEY

kidding aside - I'd go for the HHKB 

Imma steal your thread here for a second

Do you like your HHKB or Realforce 55g more? Only talking about actual switches/typing feel. Layout doesn't matter to me at all. (I like the weight to my 67g clears and 68g blacks the most and I dont really like red switches weight)

I like the RF87U 55g best of all. The HHKB has a unique feel to it that is even quite different than a uniform 45g Realforce.

MUST agree here the 55g Realforce, is to die for.  Once you use it then all other Thorpies are lame and pathetic compared to this model alone  .

Are you exaggerating? If what you are saying is true it makes me hesitant to try a new keyboard, if might not ever be as good as the 55g Realforce.

I salute your strong will if you never tried another switch.

[Justintoxicated]

I agree with those that say it comes down to the arrow keys. I have both keyboards. However, i prefer the HHKB because it does sound a little bit better to me. I am thinking about selling my Leopold and it has hardly been used. I like the smaller HHKB. I do kind of miss the arrows but you get used to the setup without them.

Have you tried the dental band mod of the FC660C?  It's quite impressive what it does for the sound. 

[johndavis33]

Alright, I think I've made my choice. I'm going to go with a used leopold. Mostly because of the more solid feeling, and placement of the backspace. It's not that I couldn't get used to the backspace on the hhkb, it's just that I'll still be using my ducky on my desktop, and switching between would be a pain. I'm also excited about the more solid plate on the leo, and the fact that some people report that they're stiffer. I'll be getting a used one because I've heard topre switches get stiffer with more use.

Good plan?

[rowdy]

I switch between QFS and HHKB on an almost daily basis.

Apart from a few \\\\ on the QFR and a few ```` on the HHKB with I first sit in front of one, doesn't take long to acclimatise.

Either way they are both great keyboards!

[DasHHKBProM]

.

[cphead]

I switch between QFS and HHKB on an almost daily basis.

Apart from a few \\\\ on the QFR and a few ```` on the HHKB with I first sit in front of one, doesn't take long to acclimatise.

Either way they are both great keyboards!

This describes the transition so well LOL.

[johndavis33]

I switch between QFS and HHKB on an almost daily basis.

Apart from a few \\\\ on the QFR and a few ```` on the HHKB with I first sit in front of one, doesn't take long to acclimatise.

Either way they are both great keyboards!

Is it really not that big of a deal?

Maybe I should go for the hhkb...

Arrgghh, indecision

[rowdy]

I switch between QFS and HHKB on an almost daily basis.

Apart from a few \\\\ on the QFR and a few ```` on the HHKB with I first sit in front of one, doesn't take long to acclimatise.

Either way they are both great keyboards!

Is it really not that big of a deal?

Maybe I should go for the hhkb...

Arrgghh, indecision

For me it's not, but I must admit that I do miss dedicated arrow keys on the HHKB.

I probably spend too long using fullsize and TKL keyboards at home and work, so I haven't fully gotten used to the HHKB Fn+[;'/ navigation, plus I tend to use my HHKB on a Mac, which doesn't require anywhere near as much use of the arrow keys as Windows.

[iLLucionist]

Vim user - Get HHKB

Don't use Vim? - FC660c

Can you elaborate as to why? I don't use vim or emacs because I don't code, but I may start in the future.

Heavy vim user here, so my personal thoughts. I have the HHKB because of: the Esc key not too far away from the home row (compared to 104 or TKL), the control key (some use it as map leader in vim, e.g. map custom commands), and tilde upper right instead of upper left. Because vim is a mode editor (e.g., mode for entering commands), the HHKB is super convenient, because all the keys you need are where you want them (e.g., control, esc, tilde for me). However, I went further and I don't use Esc. I mapped Esc to 'jk' and 'kj', so that I do not have to leave the home row. Same goes for ex-commands (e.g., ":<command>"), which I mapped to space.

For some reason, hacking in vim with a HHKB feels more natural.

[iLLucionist]

I have multiples of both, and the FC660C was my daily driver up until very recently. Now, I've switched to HHKB. In my opinion, it comes down to the arrow keys. In the past I wasn't ready for the transition to Fn-layer arrow keys on the HHKB, and thus I stuck with the Leo. Indeed, the Leo is extremely solid and it's a fantastically built board. (current models also tend to have stiffer domes than the HHKB) 

However, I slowly came to appreciate and become more practiced with the HHKB's arrow keys, and I now strongly prefer them. Although they are still sometimes inconvenient when doing heavy spreadsheet work, in general use they really are superior to dedicated keys because you don't have to move your arm/elbow to access them. I can't emphasize the importance of this enough.

I would say the FC660C trumps the HHKB in terms of build quality, but the HHKB is not that far behind, and it wins on aesthetics. It also sounds better in my opinion.

So, in my view, it comes down to your preference on arrow keys. I'd suggest making your choice mainly on that. Good luck.

Indeed, the arrow keys also put me off initially. And although I quickly get vim-commands in my muscle memory (continuously editing mappings in .vimrc to optimize workflow), the arrow keys took me like a month or two to get fully familiar with. Especially since I am using OS X, where you need command / alt to, for instance, select a word or go to the beginning of the line, which was a bit confusing for me at start. For instance selecting one word back is Shift + Cmd + Fn + ;. But now I am used to it, I enjoy it not having to leave the home row because of the diamond arrow keys. But I have also read about other people that could not get accustomed to the diamond and sold their HHKB.

[iLLucionist]

Vim user - Get HHKB

Don't use Vim? - FC660c

Can you elaborate as to why? I don't use vim or emacs because I don't code, but I may start in the future.

Sure. If you were a vim user already, It is a natural assumption that the dependency on the use arrow keys has been somewhat cast aside already. In other words, having no dedicated arrow keys shouldn't even cross your mind. Non-issue

Makes the decision easier because you'll be getting a great board either route. I haven't experienced it yet but more than a few have sang the praises of the Leo offering one the best feelz for a topre offering.

Leo is cheaper out the gate, even with those new sexy dye subs. Small learning curve if first 60% board

Hhkb4lyfe though

But the F660C does not have PBT caps, right?

[Flyersfan1]

It does have pbt keycaps, but the legends are pad printed on the original model.  EK is now selling the updated model with dye-sublimated legends.

[atlas3686]

I switch between QFS and HHKB on an almost daily basis.

Apart from a few \\\\ on the QFR and a few ```` on the HHKB with I first sit in front of one, doesn't take long to acclimatise.

Either way they are both great keyboards!

Is it really not that big of a deal?

Maybe I should go for the hhkb...

Arrgghh, indecision

For me it's not, but I must admit that I do miss dedicated arrow keys on the HHKB.

I probably spend too long using fullsize and TKL keyboards at home and work, so I haven't fully gotten used to the HHKB Fn+[;'/ navigation, plus I tend to use my HHKB on a Mac, which doesn't require anywhere near as much use of the arrow keys as Windows.

Haha I was going to say Rowdy has it spot on, I do the same thing switching from HHKB to Realforce 55g daily. Unfortunately I also use a mac with my HHKB so can't comment with regards to arrow usage on windows. I do find myself reaching for the fn key on my realforce every so often now, I think the HHKB arrows are actually better for general use (just quicker to reach for an arrow and carry on typing) but not so much for gaming or anything like that

I really don't think you can go far wrong with either of those boards.

[RimpactPC]

Hhkb all the way it's layout is absolute awesome

[johndavis33]

I'll probably flip a coin later on tonight to decide.

Does anyone have a graph with the force curve for 45g topre switches? Preferably with something like blues or greens also on the chart to compare

[noisyturtle]

You should buy this one: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60753.0

and I say this with absolutely zero bias

[johndavis33]

You should buy this one: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60753.0

and I say this with absolutely zero bias

Arrrrrgggggod the hi pro looks so sexy.

But I'm in need of a portable keyboard for use with a laptop.

Extra research, the HHKB is slightly shorter than my laptop is wide and the fc660c is slightly longer. Does anyone who uses a keyboard with their laptop know if I should care?

[kohi]

You should buy this one: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60753.0

and I say this with absolutely zero bias

Arrrrrgggggod the hi pro looks so sexy.

But I'm in need of a portable keyboard for use with a laptop.

Extra research, the HHKB is slightly shorter than my laptop is wide and the fc660c is slightly longer. Does anyone who uses a keyboard with their laptop know if I should care?

what laptop are you using?

[rowdy]

You should buy this one: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60753.0

and I say this with absolutely zero bias

Arrrrrgggggod the hi pro looks so sexy.

But I'm in need of a portable keyboard for use with a laptop.

Extra research, the HHKB is slightly shorter than my laptop is wide and the fc660c is slightly longer. Does anyone who uses a keyboard with their laptop know if I should care?

Some smaller boards are just the right size to rest across the built-in laptop keyboard, with the keyboard's rubber feet resting on the sides of the laptop case.

[johndavis33]

You should buy this one: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60753.0

and I say this with absolutely zero bias

Arrrrrgggggod the hi pro looks so sexy.

But I'm in need of a portable keyboard for use with a laptop.

Extra research, the HHKB is slightly shorter than my laptop is wide and the fc660c is slightly longer. Does anyone who uses a keyboard with their laptop know if I should care?

what laptop are you using?

Thinkpad x220 tablet

[intelli78]

I'll probably flip a coin later on tonight to decide.

Does anyone have a graph with the force curve for 45g topre switches? Preferably with something like blues or greens also on the chart to compare

If you are really that indecisive, just buy both and then sell the one you like least. It'll cost you what, $30 or $40 to be certain you made the right decision? Seems worth it to me.

[Polymer]

The safer choice is the Leopold because the arrow keys will be the biggest change for most people..it also has the most familiar layout as far as backspace, etc..                                               

The HHKB will have a steeper learning curve for two main reasons..

1.  You will need to get used to the FN layer...Best way to use it is as intended..use the right FN key with your pinky to do the arrows, etc...This is probably the number 1 reason people end up rejecting the layout...Give it time, it is actually not that hard..but if you don't get used to this, no reason to even use a HHKB, you'll hate it..

2.  You will need to get used to the backspace which is actually easy...what is difficult is switching back and forth between it and a normal layout...at first you get a lot of \\\\\ but eventually you'll be able to switch back and forth easily...you just have to use them both on a regular basis...

There is also a difference in feel between a plate mounted Leo and case mounted HHKB..both feel good...the Leo will feel a bit more solid like a RF does (but more thock).  The HHKB will feel solid but more organic (to me) and have a lot more thock to it...

[Fragil1ty]

OK, so I made a similar thread to this a while back. Probably about 6 months. The thing is, I still haven't made my decision.

I want to buy a topre switch board, and I need a portable board to use with my x220t that I run linux on. So, it seems like the hhkb is the choice right? But, I don't know if I'll like it's layout, and the fc660c looks really nice as well. It's even got the equation for capacitance written on it. I'm a physics major, and I find that just friggin cute. I've also heard it's built more solid than the hhkb. But if deciding between these two boards wasn't enough, I'm not even sure if I'll like topre that much! I'm used mx greens and whites, and 45g sounds way too light. Especcially considering I find blues/reds/browns unusable due to how light they are.

I'd like to have the board before september rolls around and I'll be back at college, so it's getting to chrunch time. I was hoping by now that one of the two boards would have a 55g version out now to make my decision easier, but not yet. Has anyone tried, or bought, both, and can give me a comparison? Are the switches on one lighter than on the other by any chance? I've heard topre switches can vary like that.

inb4 buy both, don't wanna buy two boards with switches I'm not sold on

Depends what you want it for really, I mean, I'm still getting used to my board and one of the main problems that I'm facing at the moment is adjusting to the new switch weight and although the HHKB Pro 2 does specify that it's 45g of weight, it certainly does not feel that way.


I've come from using reds for about a year and I can tell you that 45g reds feel nothing like 45g topre, so I wouldn't be too discouraged that 'they would be too light'. If I were to make a comparison, I would say that Topre feel more along the lines of Browns (because of the weight and the slight non-linear feel. (the slight bump). The HHKB does not feel like a 45g switch in my opinion, but maybe that's just because of the fact that I've come from a very light switch. (MX Cherry Red).


The feel of Topre is completely different to MX boards and I was as skeptical as you when I first thought about buying the HHKB, but if you really want a Topre board, you just have to go ahead and make the plunge, it's as simple as that.

Edit: I noticed that you said that you find blues/reds/browns too light? yeah, these boards aren't for you. Sorry. Maybe go look into the Realforce 55g Uniform or whatever. Good luck.