NMB Hi-Tek Space Invaders discussion topic

[fohat.digs]

It has been a while since NMB Hi-Tek aka "Space Invaders" aka "Angry Bear" switches have been discussed here directly as a topic of their own.

They seem to be gathering attention in the "Great Finds" section, so perhaps we need a current thread to discuss opinions, desires, observations, criticisms, etc, so I am starting this one.

Personally, I love the switch since it is very secure without discernible wobble, activates high up, and seems to have a solid long life, wear-wise at least.

On the down side, they are a nightmare to work with, clean, adjust, replace, etc, for a variety of reasons mostly revolving around the complexity of design and delicacy of the parts.

Being a lover of tactile and clicky switches, I find the black ones to be exquisite, but I am rather indifferent to the whites.

PS - I have a couple of incomplete "donor" boards that I might be willing to sell and/or I may be able to help with a few spare parts, but don't ask to buy a big load switches or caps.

[fohat.digs]

Reserved

I will put together a small chunk of a board with a few trial switches and send it out on tour, if there is any interest. PM me with your address, and there are only 2 rules: (1) don't hold it for an unreasonable time before sending it on to the next person, at your expense, and (2) please do not remove the key caps! I will include "naked" switches so that you can see what is inside.

It would be for feel only, non-functional. It will be small and light so that it can be put in an envelope and mailed for <$5 so there is not all the cost and aggravation of packing and shipping actual keyboards around.

[Defect]

What causes the click?  Crisper than Alps?

Actuation force?

[Techno Trousers]

Thanks for starting this thread, fohat. I also really like the black clicky Space Invaders. I only learned about them a few years ago. I guess the complexity of the switches contributed to the lack of popularity when they were being manufactured in the 80s and 90s?

I have a few Space Invader boards and hope to contribute some photos and info to this thread when I have a bit of time.

[False_Dmitry_II]

There's an arm that follows a track, and when you push it through the track it ends up hitting a side, which is the click. Clicky space invaders is the reason I never really used my blue MX and eventually sold it.

I want an example of the tactile space invaders, I managed to miss the one that went today.

I will add that I'm not a super big fan of linears in general, but if someone does like them linear space invaders are amazingly stable and smooth. I haven't tried them on something I can use yet though, but that's what came in my televideo which I'm going to put clicky SI into and then use Soarer's Controller in some manner.

Personally I've not really had a problem as far as delicacy goes, but I use a PCI slot as a key puller, and pop it off from one of the sides. They don't come apart very often.

[fohat.digs]

I have half a dozen Hi-Teks in various states of repair and disrepair. I am trying to work my way through them to get one (possibly 2) really nice ones and sell off the rest.

There is a lot of frustration involved in identification, particularly the black ones, so here are the labels of the 4 blacks I own:

[dante]

Are there any Number Pads w/ Space Invader switches?

[Techno Trousers]

I've never seen a standalone number pad with SI switches. AFAIK, the only keyboard manufacturer that used SI switches is NMB. So you can keep an eye out on ebay for any numpads by NMB and try your luck if you find one. To have a possibility of SI switches, it will need to have been manufactured before 1995 or thereabouts.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What causes the click?

Linkies:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/NMB_Hi-Tek (still needs a lot of work)
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/nmb.html

NMB Hi-Tek variation is worse than Alps SKCL/SKCM!

I want an example of the tactile space invaders, I managed to miss the one that went today.

I'll be interested to see what you make of them. From what I recall reading, they're good, but 002 has one and finds it prone to binding.

I never realised that the tactile mechanism was on display on MouseFan's site; basically, the contact leaves are folded back inwards and the separator bar on the slider catches on these folds on the way down.

[fohat.digs]

I'll be interested to see what you make of them. From what I recall reading, they're good, but 002 has one and finds it prone to binding.

the contact leaves are folded back inwards and the separator bar on the slider catches on these folds on the way down.

That is a fair assessment, the craftsman in me makes me wonder why someone would invent such a complex mechanism with parts so easily damaged if they have to come apart and go back together.

I suppose that keeping the aspects discreet from each other makes it possible to eliminate wobble on the main line.

My (Apple)-ANSI-black project is finished and working. It all seems very stiff, I hope that a break-in period will smooth things out.

The spacebar spring seems like triple the weight of the others!
 

[CPTBadAss]

If you are going to do a tour of NMB Space Invader switches, I'd be interested. I only tried some form of tactile switch which I didn't like.

[False_Dmitry_II]

You should post pictures of the ANSI-Apple board, fohat. Possibly of the process as well if you have any. The spacebar weight is why on both of mine that I dyed/painted I just moved the spacebar switch elsewhere.

[do_Og@n]

I'm glad I came across this thread. I have two different boards with NMB Clicky switches. I'll try to get some picture of them up once I have them out of storage.

I love them and have taken both of them apart. Which is not an easy task and as difficult as they are to take apart they are equally as difficult to put them back together. I'll be modding one of them with lubrication to see if that will improve how good they feel. It will take a lot of lube (he he he) because there are more points to lubricate than Cherry MX but I think it will be worth it.

Can't wait to see more opinions on them.

[dorkvader]

The space invaders board I got from fohat.digs is excellent. Some of the best construction I've seen in a "common" kb. The PCB is a work of art, the keycaps are beautiful dyesub PBT, the feel is extremely linear without wobble: overall excellent! Sometimes it;s hard to believe such a wonderful switch type arose from the same company that did the older hitek switches that are so awful.

Some downsides:
very fragile with top removed (which sometimes comes off with the keycap)
does not appear to be NKRO ?

[fohat.digs]

Here is an overview of the ANSI-layout NMB Hi-Tek that I got. There has been some discussion elsewhere so I thought that this might be the best place.

The keyboard came with white (linear) Space Invaders and I transplanted black (clicky) ones into it. I harvested them from an old board and several of them do not feel "right" so I plan to replace about a dozen.

They seem heavier and scratchier so I figure they probably have dust or grit inside. The switches are so insanely complicated that I don't want to mess with trying to take them apart for a good clean and lube.

My real problem now is that I am an old man and I seriously cannot read the legends in less than perfect lighting without taking an effort to focus. I am a near-touch-typist and all that, but I do not touch type all the ancillary keys. Also, I often work in very dim lighting.

[jacobolus]

Despite the silly skinny legends, that board looks great!

[fohat.digs]

Thanks. In real life use, the legends are far worse to read than they look in the photos.

It took some work to clean it up, and I painted the plate my trademark green.

The keyboard itself is almost exactly the size, weight, and configuration of the Apple Extended Keyboard.

How could you search for this since it just looks like "RT101"? I have had dozens of keyboards of all types from many manufacturers with that number.

[dorkvader]

sadly this is the only other reference to that part number (910007) I could find:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=8643.0

Based on the description, it appears to be the same KB.

memory4less may or may not have one http://www.memory4less.com/m4l_itemdetail.aspx?itemid=1456954556
They're pretty bad at pictures.

The "NMB number" doesn't want to return anything useful.

Searching for '0600002 keyboard,' it seems Code micro might have one as well: http://www.codemicro.com/store/product/ncd-0600002-refurbished so might these guys in NJ.

Sadly, refurbished parts vendors are the only results often. Some people think it was made by NCD (whoever they are)

[fohat.digs]

I will be opening it up do do some more work sometime soon.

This may help a bit.

[dorkvader]

I will be opening it up do do some more work sometime soon.

This may help a bit.

Sadly I don't think so:

from here
The NMB 115499 part number on the PCB was also used for the normal fatass enter key RT101 we all know and love.
Looking at the back, it seems they used the same PCB for both. There's an unused switch location where the \| key is on yours.

Typical NMB, they have thought ahead

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That guy has posted amazing photos — he needs to put them all on the wiki!!

[fohat.digs]

There's an unused switch location where the \| key is on yours.

What! Wow! Really?

Now I have to look at my other board - if I could mod a bigass Enter / small Backspace to get an ANSI board, I would be delighted!
 

[dorkvader]

There's an unused switch location where the \| key is on yours.

What! Wow! Really?

Now I have to look at my other board - if I could mod a bigass Enter / small Backspace to get an ANSI board, I would be delighted!
 

You'll have to mod the plate to add a hole for the \| key (the enter key switch location appears to be in the same spot regardless) but check out this picture:

It's not a big pic, but there's a clear space above enter. It also looks like you can play games with the backspace.

[False_Dmitry_II]

If that's true of all of them, then the problem beyond creating the proper holes on the plate (possibly by just creating an entirely new plate), is of getting the 2x backspace keycaps and the rest of the few keys needed to create full ANSI.

[Imperator]

I'm typing on one at the moment. I've really got to get me another one, though. The 'a' key is slowing going out and trying to fix these things is a nightmare all on its own. It's got the split space bar key too which I love.

[do_Og@n]

I'm typing on one at the moment. I've really got to get me another one, though. The 'a' key is slowing going out and trying to fix these things is a nightmare all on its own. It's got the split space bar key too which I love.

I have a similar one which I have torn apart and will be cleaning, lubing, and painting. I only wish there was a way to make one into a TKL. I'll be sure to upload photos as I take them.

[jacobolus]

I think clicky space invader switches would make great mouse buttons.

[Shayde]

I haven't had a lot of luck with Space Invader switches, though these were the whites.  I had them in an A2000 keyboard that wasn't that old when I bought it, but the switches were pretty finicky.  I became a key slammer because it seemed to improve somewhat the chance a key will register properly.  But every now and then one would just stop working and I'd have to rip the cap off and play with the contacts to get the switch working again.

Then I worked at place that used these same switches on an NCR terminal keyboard and had the exact same problems.

Both keyboards were high usage ones, but even so you'd expect them to go for more than a year before problems show up.  Based on a sample size of two, those switches were unreliable and frustrating.  Can't say I miss them.

Never tried blacks though.

[ShawnMeg]

Interesting that the list price of the keyboard was $37.00 back in the 1990's.  It was budget priced compared to a lot of other designs (e.g. Northgate OmniKey T $129.00)

[Hypersphere]

I was glad to see this thread. I just received an NBM 122-key with black clicky space invaders. I haven't yet had time to clean it up and test it.

Questions:

1. This board has a direct PS/2 connector -- can it be outfitted with a Teensy and Soarer Converter so that I could remap the 122 keys to my liking?

2. The board has an ISO layout. Is it possible to convert it to ANSI? If so, how difficult would this be?

Thanks.

[jacobolus]

For those of you who had an opportunity to compare this switch to other clicky switchs (Model F capacitive buckling spring, Cherry MX Blues/Greens, and White Alps), what are your thoughts on the space invaders?  I've listened to a couple online videos posted, and the Space Invaders sound clickier.

Clicky space invaders are fairly similar in feeling to clicky SMK switches (e.g. “monterey” blue Alps-mount ones), but with less travel and a bit less click of a slightly different sound (since their click is caused by plastic hitting plastic rather than metal hitting plastic). They’re less clicky than e.g. amber Omrons. They’re clickier than Cherry MX blue or green switches and I like them substantially better. They’re quite different from (and not really easily comparable to) buckling springs.

If you like clicky Cherry switches, you’ll probably really like them, but you might not; people have different preferences.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Interesting that the list price of the keyboard was $37.00 back in the 1990's.  It was budget priced compared to a lot of other designs (e.g. Northgate OmniKey T $129.00)

(Attachment Link)

Those prices are weird.

It's also interesting though that even a PC magazine was noting the difference between "membrane" (i.e. rubber dome over three-layer membrane) and conductive dome (over …? Over PCB or over a single membrane layer?)

[Hypersphere]

I found two boards in my collection that have NMB Hi-Tek switches; one with white (tactile) and one with black (tactile and clicky) mechanisms. Both feel like true tactile switches, and I like them much better than any Cherry mx switch I have tried (I've tried blue, black, brown, green, and clear).

[Touch_It]

Using both black space invaders and "Monteray" switches as daily drivers I can sAy that I like them both but I do find them very different in a few ways. The space invaders feel way more solid in reference to wobbling.  Keyboard is also way heavier and solid.  When it comes to feel and noise the actuation force feels quite high, similar to an ibm model m imo.  The clicking noise is pretty loud and seems to have a higher pitch than Monteray switches if you don't bottom out.  The Monteray switches have lighter actuation force and a deeper click, very similar imp to me Blues.  The final diference would be the tactile force.  With space invaders it is definitely there and with Monteray switches its there but less pronounced.  Overall I would say Monteray blues are easily my favorite but I like them both.

[terrpn]

here is my NMB AQ6RT-72511/RT101+ with grey space invaders- tactile only and very nice

these switches are unbelievably nice not to mention the board itself.

fohat............you are dead on with squaring up when trying to remove a cap. the top of the switch always stays in place and does not come off!

great advise and thank you

[dorkvader]

so jealous!

I really like NMB quality. If you don't take the switches apart, they protect the fragile contacts quite well. The switch itself responds well to off axis hits, is inherently much more linear than most, and the dyesub PBT keycaps are great.

[fohat.digs]

squaring up when trying to remove a cap. the top of the switch always stays in place

When removing key caps, I prefer a wire puller and grab opposite diagonal corners and pull straight up.

This * DOES  NOT  WORK * with NMB Hi-Tek "Space Invaders" although it works great with everything else.

There is an "under-carriage" that holds the key cap and is also the top component of the switch body, and it has notches under the diagonal corners, too. If you grab diagonally under the corners with a wire puller, you are almost sure to pull it off, along with the key cap. The internal spring is likely to jump away, too, and you have to be very careful when you put it all back together.

The solution is to remove the key cap from the sides, only, straight up, and avoid the corners.

[MahBoi]

I love the clicky Space Invader switches. They have a soft click and lack a lot of the extra noise that comes with other mechanical keyswitches. Also, the keys do very well with off-center hits. The particular keyboard I have has the split spacebar where one side can be used as a backspace, which I've grown rather fond of.

[terrpn]

yea............the PBT keycaps are very nice and like fohat says squaring up the wire puller on the cap vs removing diagonally.

i really am fond of these boards and you never have to worry about me taking these switches apart-- to high for my pay grade

i saw one of the NMB's with the space bar/back space..........on ebay, made the seller an offer, but could not pay with shipping what he wanted- maybe next time

congrats to mahboi on a nice board.

dorkvader............don't you have one with the beige switches?

[phoenix1234]

I saw the weakness of NMB space invader when I used it a few year back. That's why I wrote my bad experience based on my broken NMB keyboard (still keep the keycap set though, love it  )

We all know about its strong, the superior PBT dyesub keycap set on amazing tactile clicky feeling key switch. However, dust and moisture may easily leak into the two exposed bass leaves. As a result, the key switch is lacking of protection against undesirable action from users. Incorrect keycap removal method or incorrect cleaning key switch method may destroy the clicky action completely or change the clicky sound or key switch feeling to something extremely ridiculous. The key switch is very vulnerable with RP7, WD40 or any kind of wet lube because the key switches are opened to the air. The more it gets wet, the more dust will stick on it. So after I destroyed my lovely NMB keyboard, three important things that I have learnt:

+ avoid removing the keycap as long as possible.
+ keep the key switch as dry and clean as possible. Don't try to lube it with any kind of wet lube. Just only use vacuum cleaner (lower power) to suck the dust out.
+ don't try to touch, pull, bend or fix the two bass leaves

Don't get me wrong on this. I really love the keyboard. Actually, I will buy a new NMB again if I have a chance. I just want to write about it weakness so it may help someone not to face the same case like me.

edit: spelling correction

[terrpn]

I saw the weakness of NMB space invader when I used it a few year back. That's why I wrote my bad experience based on my broken NMB keyboard (still keep the keycap set though, love it  )

We all know about its strong, the superior PBT dyesub keycap set on amazing tactile clicky feeling key switch. However, dust and moisture may easily leak into the two exposed bass leaves. As a result, the key switch is lacking of protection against undesirable action from users. Incorrect keycap removal method or incorrect cleaning key switch method may destroy the clicky action completely or change the clicky sound or key switch feeling to something extremely ridiculous. The key switch is very vulnerable with RP7, WD40 or any kind of wet lube because the key switches are opened to the air. The more it gets wet, the more dust will stick on it. So after I destroyed my lovely NMB keyboard, three important things that I have learn:

+ avoid removing the keycap as long as possible.
+ keep the key switch as dry and clean as possible. Don't try to lube it with any kind of web lube. Just only use vacuum cleaner (lower power) to suck the dust out.
+ don't try to touch, pull, bend or fix the two bass leaves

Don't get me wrong on this. I really love the keyboard. Actually, I will buy a new NMB again if I have a change. I just want to write about it weakness so it may help someone not to face the same case like me.

i don't see anything wrong with your post and appreciate the wealth of info, especially about the not lubing due to dust, etc. sticking to the innards- makes sense to me

i like direct and to the point

[MahBoi]

I saw the weakness of NMB space invader when I used it a few year back. That's why I wrote my bad experience based on my broken NMB keyboard (still keep the keycap set though, love it  )

We all know about its strong, the superior PBT dyesub keycap set on amazing tactile clicky feeling key switch. However, dust and moisture may easily leak into the two exposed bass leaves. As a result, the key switch is lacking of protection against undesirable action from users. Incorrect keycap removal method or incorrect cleaning key switch method may destroy the clicky action completely or change the clicky sound or key switch feeling to something extremely ridiculous. The key switch is very vulnerable with RP7, WD40 or any kind of wet lube because the key switches are opened to the air. The more it gets wet, the more dust will stick on it. So after I destroyed my lovely NMB keyboard, three important things that I have learnt:

+ avoid removing the keycap as long as possible.
+ keep the key switch as dry and clean as possible. Don't try to lube it with any kind of wet lube. Just only use vacuum cleaner (lower power) to suck the dust out.
+ don't try to touch, pull, bend or fix the two bass leaves

Don't get me wrong on this. I really love the keyboard. Actually, I will buy a new NMB again if I have a chance. I just want to write about it weakness so it may help someone not to face the same case like me.

edit: spelling correction

This is all very good to know along with everything else in this thread. Thank you for the information!

[terrpn]

cleaned it up, so here you go

it has no label, but looks like a Phillips 2812

linear white space invaders (hi-tek)

the caps lock was cemented down, stuck so i took apart, cleaned and voila!

they are very smooth...........more so than reds

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Wow! You have the mysterious Gundam switches!

MouseFan posted a photo of a single switch, and its origin has remained a mystery ever since.

What year is shown on the PCB? It should be four 7-segment digits at the bottom of the underside of the PCB, representing YYWW (you can see this on the wiki page for the Philips P2812).

I believe that this is the very first design of this switch; that's a very early keyboard (no integrated LED switches) and the Gundam design matches the 1984 patent (something I never spotted before). Your PC should read a year close to 84.

[nubbinator]

Wow! You have the mysterious Gundam switches!

MouseFan posted a photo of a single switch, and its origin has remained a mystery ever since.

What year is shown on the PCB? It should be four 7-segment digits at the bottom of the underside of the PCB, representing YYWW (you can see this on the wiki page for the Philips P2812).

I believe that this is the very first design of this switch; that's a very early keyboard (no integrated LED switches) and the Gundam design matches the 1984 patent (something I never spotted before). Your PC should read a year close to 84.

Should be similar to mine.

[dorkvader]

dorkvader............don't you have one with the beige switches?

I just have this one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157642928081893/
Switches are like this:

[fohat.digs]

The cleanliness of that board!

Every Hi-Tek I have seen has been filthy and all but impossible to clean!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Curses, so no year printed on the Gundam version! Unbelievable.

[terrpn]

dorkvader............don't you have one with the beige switches?

I just have this one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157642928081893/
Switches are like this:

Show Image

dude............that thing is clean!

[dorkvader]

dorkvader............don't you have one with the beige switches?

I just have this one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157642928081893/
Switches are like this:

Show Image

dude............that thing is clean!

Yeah it's awesome. Extremely linear, sweet layout, lots of keys. It appears to be unused and everything has been lightly oiled. I forget if I got it from fohat.digs or eBay. I would dearly love to get it working on USB.

I also really want to try a tactile one for a length of time to see how it's like.