Author Topic: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"  (Read 13986 times)

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Offline davkol

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 08:57:45 »
POM keycaps are present on certain Noppoo/PLUM keyboards (e.g., black non-backlit Choc Mini) and black Cherry G80/G81 keyboards with "L" keycaps (i.e. not ABS doubleshots). Some rainbow-colored POM sets are available from China (I think qtan carries at least one).

Offline Quardah

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 09:04:51 »
WOW THIS THREAD IS FKIN GOLD

I mean being serious, this thread really points out a LOT of stuff that i believe should be considered "optimisation standards"

But of course everything starts with appreciation.
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Offline weenis

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 31 August 2014, 11:38:54 »
I'm also one who can't believe POMs haven't caught on more.

I use POM's at home on my primary computer, and a TKL IBM M on my secondary. I use PBTs and ABS at work. I'm a computer engineer, and play a little bit of SC2... needless to say I use my keyboards. My POM keys are hands down the best sounding and best feeling of all of my keysets.
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Offline xybre

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Offline rowdy

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 01:04:46 »
Numpads on the left hand side of the keyboard.

I happened across this just now :D

Show Image


http://www.ebay.com/itm/DSI-Left-Handed-USB-Keyboard-with-Cherry-Mechanical-RED-Key-Switches-New-/400733654502?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item5d4d964de6

I've seen those before - they just look weird to me, like a mirror image but the legends are the wrong way around.  It kinda messes with my brain ... :p
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Oobly

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 01:12:00 »
Like Logitech diNovo?

Or Microsoft Sidewinder X6 - THE best TKL or Full keyboard, if you want it to be  :thumb: .

X6 had only detachable numpad, not entirely separate. Azio Levetron or that Mad Catz monstrosity would coult as well, otherwise. It's EOL too, and I found the key profile/spacing somehow hurt my fingers. OTOH Logitech PerfectStroke scissor switches are pretty good.

Firstly the X6 is only 2KRO which is ridiculous for a keyboard marketed for gaming. Secondly, it has HORRIBLE feeling rubber domes. Thirdly, the numpad can be placed on either side of the board, so it's not just detachable. Where else would you put a separate numpad?

I'm not really sure why I still have mine.. Possibly for the horrible fascination, a bit like not being able to drive pass the scene of an accident.

Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Oobly

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 01:15:30 »
Backlit PBT keycaps.

Only Deck has them and they're in the godawful Renaissance Fair font.

Vortex has started making some. They use POM for the semi-opaque material that lets the light through. Font even looks decent.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Oobly

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 01:20:34 »
Integrated pointing devices.

Small integrated displays. I think that people have probably dismissed this as yet another "gaming gimmick" rather than really thinking about what kinds of use it could be put to, especially in non-gaming contexts-- which is where the feature was first seen, anyway.

In fact, now that I think about it, I wonder how many keyboard features that are now marketed as things for gaming were originally designed for office use and seen on high-end office keyboards long before there even was such a thing as a "gaming keyboard"...

Show Image


So.... what kind of uses could a small display be put to? I can't think of a use case that would improve my user experience. I look up to the screen if I want to see notifications, etc, and leave my hands on the board (a lot lower) for good ergonomics. Why would I want to look down at my keyboard's display for anything?

I agree about integrated pointing devices. My personal favourite is the Trackpoint. Takes up minimal space in the layout and works well enough for basic tasks. For when you need precision you can move your hand over to the mouse, but it allows you to do 80% of your mouse movement without moving your hands from the board.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline HoffmanMyster

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 01:48:35 »

  • Engineers that actually fix, work on, and/or replace what they design.
They exist. For example, Dad was just in China up to his arms in prototypes that he and the people that work for him designed. He is more of a "hands-on" guy who is happy to take apart the stuff he designs, figure out what's wrong and get it fixed for the next prototype. I imagine there's more.

I have only met three in real life.  One was on a job at a power house and he wasn't the engineer that designed the equipment, just a company rep.  One is on the job that I work at now, same deal as the first.  And the third is CPTBadAss.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this is basically my job. But I don't design the stuff. I just fix it.  :))

Offline Oobly

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 02:06:33 »
Now, back on topic:

I agree with most of these, specifically:

1. POM keycaps.
2. Split keyboards.
3. Small spacebars, split spacebars, many keys for thumbs.
4. Ergonomic layouts.
5. Programmable Fn layers AND default layers.
5. Alps clicky switches.

Like jacobolus, I am doing something about it with the next version of my board design (split, ergonomic, angled thumb clusters, Matias switches option, POM keycaps option, programmable layouts with a GUI editor). I'm also experimenting with curved finger areas, capacitive switch ideas and buckling springs, but those may have to wait for prototype number 3.

IMHO, better to have both standard layout boards and genuinely ergonomic boards than to modify standard layout boards piecemeal (by splitting spacebars, or changing only character layout, or splitting anormal layout board into two pieces, etc). Means you can still type on a normal board when needed, but you get all the benefits of a properly designed board on your own PC. No mixing up of motor skills / memory, no need to "unlearn" anything.

IMHO it needs to be a "clean break", something so different that you don't use the same muscle memory for typing on the two. Of course, getting widespread adoption will be the biggest problem, no matter how much better a design is than standard. Look at Maltron. Lillian Malt even wrote scientific papers on the design proving its superiority and it still was only used by a small minority of people. I do think the design could be improved somewhat, such as being split and more compact / portable, more optimal use of the thumb clusters in terms of allowing combinations more easily, using Fn layers, using modern analysis on character layouts (not possible in her day, but fairly easy now), etc.

I believe both will need to coexist. Normal board designs will not go away just because something better is out there. People stick to the familiar, but sometimes will also try something novel. If people are assured that trying the novel idea won't affect their skills on a normal board they will be much more likely to try it. If it doesn't work for them, they've lost nothing. If it does they have gained. If the gain is enough, they will promote the concept to others. Eventually it may replace the normal design, but I don't see it happening by increments. "Normal" keyboard designs are too entrenched. Even a small change can be catastrophic to typing fluency and it's an irritation to adjust to. If you have to do this many times to get to a truly good design, many people will not make the effort, IMHO.

In many industries change happens by evolution, small changes that people can get used to as they're introduced one by one. I don't think this is the way to go with keyboard design, though. It needs to be a "revolution", not an "evolution".
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline davkol

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 02:32:03 »
Lillian Malt even wrote scientific papers on the design proving its superiority and it still was only used by a small minority of people.
links plz

Offline Oobly

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 03:25:58 »
Lillian Malt even wrote scientific papers on the design proving its superiority and it still was only used by a small minority of people.
links plz

http://www.maltron.com/keyboard-info/academic-papers/236-lillian-malt-papers
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline davkol

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 04:14:05 »
Lillian Malt even wrote scientific papers on the design proving its superiority and it still was only used by a small minority of people.
links plz

http://www.maltron.com/keyboard-info/academic-papers/236-lillian-malt-papers
That's one paper and not a very scientific one. I was wondering if you knew about anything else.

Offline Oobly

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 05:33:24 »
Lillian Malt even wrote scientific papers on the design proving its superiority and it still was only used by a small minority of people.
links plz

http://www.maltron.com/keyboard-info/academic-papers/236-lillian-malt-papers
That's one paper and not a very scientific one. I was wondering if you knew about anything else.

There are a few more written by Stephen Hobday about the Maltron design there, too:

http://www.maltron.com/keyboard-info/academic-papers

My point was simply that the design was well planned and executed and could be shown to be a vast improvement over existing designs, but still they didn't become the de facto standard keyboard design despite this, or even particularly popular except in small health-related markets.

Anyway, enough of a derailment I think...

Back on topic: Model F keyboards! Markedly better than the Model M to type on and better overall design, but many people still seem to think the Model M is the pinnacle of keyboard design (and that's even true for many "enlightened" mech keyboard users).
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline squizzler

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 21 April 2020, 04:21:10 »
I agree, I tried Malt then moved onto the RSTHD layout, which is Malt optimised in the light of modern developments.

Regarding the hardware, I think it's time we dropped MX mount in favour of hollow "light pipe" switches and keycap mounts, such as Kailh KO and Omron B3K whose more spacious design might also provide room for complex mechanisms such as buckling spring or beam spring.
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Offline Zustiur

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 22 April 2020, 18:10:16 »
Colvrak sets. The World needs more Colemak and Dvorak sets.

Offline gorauskas

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 22 April 2020, 19:03:11 »
Completely silent stabilizers!?!

Offline Leslieann

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 23 April 2020, 04:08:48 »
I can't believe programmable function layers haven't caught on.
People can't even learn shortcuts, heck, many can't even find the keys that are right in front of them.
How do you expect them to learn layers?

Integrated pointing devices.
We tried this, it failed, they lack precision.

Stepped caps locks standard on keyboards. I like them so much more. I wish there were more keyboards that could use them.
Why do we even have Caps Lock. Not sure what to do with it, but it could easily be moved if not killed entirely.

Numpads on the left hand side of the keyboard.
It was on the right side because most people are right handed and most people are HORRIBLE at doing anything like that with anything but their dominant hand.

Voice recognition :p
It has, in phones. Not on desktop because just like the Minority Report screens (which people also wanted badly) they are utter garbage in an office environment.

Engineers that actually fix, work on, and/or replace what they design.
In smaller companies they do, in larger companies they do not.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 23 April 2020, 04:33:33 »
Mandatory computer science education, like we do with reading and writing and math. Especially with the increasing lack of developers, especially talented developers, we should be doing everything we can to increase the labor pool.
While it sounds good, I've really never seen one that wasn't tailored to a specific program that was worth a darn.
I see the results of those classes regularly, they're all but useless.

The problem is it takes a while for it to standardize, get into books and have tests developed, the technology changes too fast. Don't forget you have to deal with the computers many poorer schools have (whatever they can get) and the "computers" many wealthier schools have (Ipads and Chromebooks). And where do you start? How do you keep the kids interested? Generally you end up with a bunch who have no idea and learn little and a few who already know the lessons and end up hacking the system(s).
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Offline squizzler

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 24 April 2020, 13:27:26 »
Why has a 'proper' unicode output not caught on: I don't mean like how QMK's unicode options send a series of keystrokes used to manually enter a unicode character as a one-off, I mean every character comes out in 'pure' unicode.
Running RSTHD on Minidox since 2019

Offline hpetrovski

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 06:04:05 »
With the smoothness craze, I'm surprised there aren't many contactless switches being developed by major switch companies honestly.

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 09:34:38 »
Quote
Integrated pointing devices.
We tried this, it failed, they lack precision.

I don't agree with this. We still find integrated pointing devices in laptops, with modern resolutions, and Lenovo still has TrackPoint keyboards for sale. It's definitely still a live category of device.

The TrackPoint might not replace your mouse for gaming, but it doesn't have to. It's not competing with your mouse for desk space, or even for a port to plug it into. You could use a TrackPoint for tasks that involve a lot of switching between typing and pointer use, or for when you feel like having your hand in a more central position (regardless of the width of your keyboard!), and still use a mouse or trackball at other times. Even just having a second type of pointing device around will already be beneficial because switching between the two will alleviate some of the repetitiveness of your motion.

Ideally there'd be at least two pointing nubs built into the keyboard (maybe more for extra-large keyboards that have many extra regions of keys). One should be in the usual central position amidst the G, H, and B keys, where it is immediately available from the home row, which would be used in typing-intensive tasks. Another would be located above and to the right of the up arrow, below PgDn; this would be used for tasks that call for intensive numerical input, and would likely handle a lot of general use thanks to its proximity both to the arrow keys and the navigation cluster and its position relative to the user's shoulder. Between these two pointing nubs and a mouse or trackball to the right of the keyboard, a large range of seating positions and user body postures can be supported.
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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 13:09:04 »
Mandatory computer science education, like we do with reading and writing and math. Especially with the increasing lack of developers, especially talented developers, we should be doing everything we can to increase the labor pool.
While it sounds good, I've really never seen one that wasn't tailored to a specific program that was worth a darn.
I see the results of those classes regularly, they're all but useless.

The problem is it takes a while for it to standardize, get into books and have tests developed, the technology changes too fast. Don't forget you have to deal with the computers many poorer schools have (whatever they can get) and the "computers" many wealthier schools have (Ipads and Chromebooks). And where do you start? How do you keep the kids interested? Generally you end up with a bunch who have no idea and learn little and a few who already know the lessons and end up hacking the system(s).

I disagree on technology changing too fast, the fundamentals of programming do not. We're still using OO languages not significantly different from smalltalk and that was developed in the 70s. Some CS courses fall out of date as they focus too much on trends and frameworks, my undergrad degree has barely changed in 20 years, and rightly so, It taught me to be capable of picking up any language as I go.

I'm honestly not too bothered about teaching everyone CS though, I hate the idea of the market being flooded with bad developers, who arn't truly passionate about it. We should definitely improve CS education so everyone is exposed to it and everyone with an interest can pursue it, but we're all not going to take to it.

Offline rxc92

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #73 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 20:01:22 »
Colvrak sets. The World needs more Colemak and Dvorak sets.
.
Tbh most Dvorak/Colemak users probably know how to touch type, considering almost nobody learns them as first layout. I’ve been using Dvorak for years; having a specifically printed set would just make it harder when I have to use QWERTY.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #74 on: Sun, 26 April 2020, 20:34:12 »
Quote
Integrated pointing devices.
We tried this, it failed, they lack precision.

I don't agree with this. We still find integrated pointing devices in laptops, with modern resolutions, and Lenovo still has TrackPoint keyboards for sale. It's definitely still a live category of device.
If you look at those laptops that include a trackpoint almost all of them are corporate grade laptops (or downgraded corporate laptops), there's lots of reasons corporate laptops are designed how they are but it rarely ever comes down to what the workers want. Yes, there are people who refuse to buy a laptop that doesn't have one but those people are few and far between and pretty much every one of them has worked in I.T.


I disagree on technology changing too fast, the fundamentals of programming do not. We're still using OO languages not significantly different from smalltalk and that was developed in the 70s. Some CS courses fall out of date as they focus too much on trends and frameworks, my undergrad degree has barely changed in 20 years, and rightly so, It taught me to be capable of picking up any language as I go.
Comp/Sci is much more than programming, I was referring to fundamentals and basic computer literacy.
People greatly over estimate the average persons basic computer literacy.
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More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 29 May 2020, 18:17:15 »
Honestly, I am surprised that having a positive tilt on keyboards is still mainstream.

Offline rxc92

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #76 on: Sat, 30 May 2020, 01:18:56 »
I agree, same with people using wrist rests. It's too bad no enthusiast keyboards that I know of do negative tilt. The only one that I've had with it was an old K70.

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #77 on: Sat, 30 May 2020, 01:57:12 »
I agree, same with people using wrist rests.

Tall keycaps though. I can't be using SA without a wrist-rest, it's a mitigation against the ergonomic cost of those aesthetics.

Offline jamster

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #78 on: Sat, 30 May 2020, 04:38:41 »
Cosmetic LEDs, which add add an extra hundred or so solder points and parts, and contribute absolutely nothing to the function of the keyboard.




(Yeah, I wish).

Offline rxc92

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #79 on: Sat, 30 May 2020, 04:58:59 »
Cosmetic LEDs, which add add an extra hundred or so solder points and parts, and contribute absolutely nothing to the function of the keyboard.
 
 
They certainly do make the keyboard visible in a dark room, and to touch typists or non-QWERTY users they contribute about as much as printing on keycaps. 
It's very weird that you have some sense of elitism for lacking a feature. It's not enough to say that you dislike backlighting, you also have to perform mental gymnastics and state why you think it's a bad thing also. Hilarious, really.

Offline jamster

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #80 on: Sat, 30 May 2020, 05:30:05 »
I readily admit to being old fashioned. If pretty LEDs helped make mech boards popular (which they obviously have with the whole gamer aesthetic) then that's a good thing.

I've been confused about the whole 'helps you see in a dark room' reason, 'cause the keyboard is usually positioned really close to a massive light source (a monitor). That's always struck me as a bit of mental gymnastics to justify an aesthetic preference.

I also admit that the old style ThinkPads with the downlight were pretty useful in the dark, because the laptop keyboards were black and impossible to change, so therefore unavoidably hard to see in the dark. 
« Last Edit: Sat, 30 May 2020, 05:32:52 by jamster »

Offline mokeyjoe

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #81 on: Sat, 30 May 2020, 12:13:01 »
I readily admit to being old fashioned. If pretty LEDs helped make mech boards popular (which they obviously have with the whole gamer aesthetic) then that's a good thing.

I've been confused about the whole 'helps you see in a dark room' reason, 'cause the keyboard is usually positioned really close to a massive light source (a monitor). That's always struck me as a bit of mental gymnastics to justify an aesthetic preference.

I also admit that the old style ThinkPads with the downlight were pretty useful in the dark, because the laptop keyboards were black and impossible to change, so therefore unavoidably hard to see in the dark.

I have my monitor on an arm so it's fairly high, so while I can kind of see the legends in a darkish room if I peer at them, I have to wait for my eyes to adjust from the brightness of the monitor to see them properly. I find a backlight really useful when working at night, although I only generally need it to find some of the symbols, when I'm touch typing it doesn't really matter. I also prefer white to RGB, as I don't think RGB is particularly functional. Actually I have less of a problem with my laptop, as the screen is close to the keys. Although if I'm looking at dark pages then it doesn't light up the keyboard particularly well.

Offline lorphex

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 08 June 2020, 19:12:34 »
Optical switches.
I don't know if people think they're flawed or what. But I bought a GK61 and gutted the parts and modified them to fit in a Lustro case and I use it daily for my gaming keyboard. It's not great for typing, but they're so light and accurate, I love this thing.

Offline squizzler

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 11 June 2020, 08:36:33 »
Whilst I am an Ergo user, I am surprised that over in staggered row world, ISO hasn't universally displaced ANSI format.
Running RSTHD on Minidox since 2019

Offline rxc92

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #84 on: Thu, 11 June 2020, 09:48:31 »
Whilst I am an Ergo user, I am surprised that over in staggered row world, ISO hasn't universally displaced ANSI format.
 
 
That's ironic considering ISO is utter **** for ergonomics compared to ANSI and doesn't even have a single standard layout.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 11 June 2020, 11:02:49 »
Whilst I am an Ergo user, I am surprised that over in staggered row world, ISO hasn't universally displaced ANSI format.

Curious about the resoning here? This really doesn't make sense imo.

Offline funkmon

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 11 June 2020, 20:59:29 »
I readily admit to being old fashioned. If pretty LEDs helped make mech boards popular (which they obviously have with the whole gamer aesthetic) then that's a good thing.

I've been confused about the whole 'helps you see in a dark room' reason, 'cause the keyboard is usually positioned really close to a massive light source (a monitor). That's always struck me as a bit of mental gymnastics to justify an aesthetic preference.

I also admit that the old style ThinkPads with the downlight were pretty useful in the dark, because the laptop keyboards were black and impossible to change, so therefore unavoidably hard to see in the dark.

I've absolutely been in a position where I didn't have enough light to really see what I was typing if I lost something back in the bad old days. I think I used to use a black Dell Quietkey when that was going on. I couldn't use the good loud keyboards because my parents were sleeping.

Offline jamster

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Re: KTOD - "I can't believe ________ hasn't caught on"
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 13 June 2020, 22:05:27 »
I readily admit to being old fashioned. If pretty LEDs helped make mech boards popular (which they obviously have with the whole gamer aesthetic) then that's a good thing.

I've been confused about the whole 'helps you see in a dark room' reason, 'cause the keyboard is usually positioned really close to a massive light source (a monitor). That's always struck me as a bit of mental gymnastics to justify an aesthetic preference.

I also admit that the old style ThinkPads with the downlight were pretty useful in the dark, because the laptop keyboards were black and impossible to change, so therefore unavoidably hard to see in the dark.

I've absolutely been in a position where I didn't have enough light to really see what I was typing if I lost something back in the bad old days. I think I used to use a black Dell Quietkey when that was going on. I couldn't use the good loud keyboards because my parents were sleeping.

I guess I could have been more explicit with the "see in the dark" reason- going on the comments and group buys a lot of people here probably use aftermarket key cap sets. I find it's very easy with a black on white set. I've got GMK Carbon and the stock beige Realforce caps, and they're very easy to see in the dark.

If someone is running a stock 'gaming' board with the usual black ABS keys, sure, backlighting would be pretty useful.