[IC] Soft O-rings (40A)

[Lpwl]

UPDATE :

-- Round 1 --
[22/08] I've ordered more than 5000 O-rings and paid for it all upfront.
[27/08] Half has been already produced. Everything should be here in a week or two.
[13/09] I've received half of the products but one package was held at the Airport for a week.
[17/09] Everything is here and should be available in Classifieds in a day or two.
[19/09] Sale thread is live.
[25/10] SOLD OUT !
-------------

Not long after buying my CODE keyboard, I started looking for O-rings in order to obtain the lowest possible price while ensuring that they have adequate characteristics. I was able to test some O-rings of different thickness and hardness and make my own opinion on this subject (more info : here).

In my opinion, 40A hardness (aka "soft") O-rings are the best. They are also difficult to find.

WASDKeyboards are selling some but it is expensive : 20$ shipped (USA) or 24$ shipped (Europe). This is why I would like to help this community benefit from my experience with some manufacturers in China.



   Gallery : http://imgur.com/a/xIGNO
   Video :

∼ Specs : 

More

   Quantity  :
      - Tenkeyless = 90 pcs / bag
      - Full size = 110 pcs / bag
      - Full size + extras = 125 pcs / bag
      - Other sizes...

   Hardness : 40A
   Material : Silicone

   "Slim" O-rings dimensions :
   [ID] = 0.196 inch    (⇔ 5mm )
   [OD] = 0.314 inch   (⇔ 8mm )
   [CS] = 0.059 inch    (⇔ 1.5mm )

   "Fat" O-rings dimensions :
   [ID] = 0.196 inch    (⇔ 5mm )
   [OD] = 0.393 inch   (⇔ 10mm )
   [CS] = 0.098 inch    (⇔ 2.5mm )

   MOQ  : 2000 pcs for each size.

   ID = Inner diameter / OD = Outer diameter / CS = Cross section (thickness) / MOQ = Minimum Order Quantity.

∼ Pricing (in €) : 

More

   "Slim" O-rings bag price :
   - 90 pcs : 6,70€        (⇔ $9 )
   - 110 pcs : 8,20€      (⇔ $11.10 )
   - 125 pcs : 9,30€      (⇔ $12.50 )

   || These "slim" O-rings are exactly the same as those sold by KeyboardCo (125 pcs per bag - 14,40€ / $19.50 ... without shipping ).
 

It has a very small key travel reduction, so you may or may not notice it. It dampens the noise pretty well, and eliminates almost all of the “shock” you feel when the key hits the bottom. If you can’t decide which pack to get, try these ones first. Can’t go wrong with these ones, they’re good all around || source : WhiteFireDragon’s GB

   "Fat" O-rings bag price :
   - 90 pcs : 8€            (⇔ $10.75 )
   - 110 pcs : 9,80€      (⇔ $13.25 )
   - 125 pcs : 11,10€    (⇔ $15 )

   || These "fat" O-rings were sold here 2 years ago. They are not sold anywhere else to my knowledge.
 

This one is my personal favorite, but I know it’s not for everyone. It’s the max thickness you can have in an O-ring. It bottoms out just after the key’s registration point. This simulates scissor switches on laptops or thin membrane keyboard, but still retains the “mechanical” feel from MX switches. || source : WhiteFireDragon’s GB

∼ Shipping : 

More

   Shipping will be from France in padded envelopes.

   Add to bag price for :
      •  shipping within France (J+1) : 1,4 €
      •  shipping within Europe (J+2/3) : 1,65 €
      •  delivery in other countries : 2€

   || Shipping cost could be lowered if you were only interested by a few bags of "slim" O-rings (max : 250 pcs) or by one bag of "fat" O-rings (max : 100 pcs).

∼ Poll :

   If you are interested, please fill out this form : https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1nAsboWjwnUogqGxSspYNelXFrDZdNM7r9C9C2cEl_hA/viewform?usp=send_form

[myrddin]

Are these special in some way? I picked up 150 slim ones here for $2 a couple weeks ago.

[Lpwl]

Are these special in some way? I picked up 150 slim ones here for $2 a couple weeks ago.

Yeap, they are ... softer !

Also, a thicker O-ring is something that everyone should try : some people will hate it - some will love it.

∼ More info :
   

A thicker ring will reduce key travel more than a thinner ring.
A softer ring will make a switch quiet more effectively than a harder ring.

source : KeyboardCo blog

   

It depends on what effect you are trying to achieve.

If you want to quiet down the keyboard and soften the landing, get soft o-rings, ie in 40A or 50A durometer.
If you want to quiet down the keyboard but keep a hard landing, get hard ones (70 - 90A durometer)... however their noise dampening won't be as good as the soft ones'.

source : DeskThority

 Those you bought are probably harder (because it's cheaper to produce) - something around 60A. You should ask the vendor about it.

[Vitaly]

Are these special in some way? I picked up 150 slim ones here for $2 a couple weeks ago.

Bought in red color from ebay http://goo.gl/GpaKBM  works well and pretty soft (if put 2 o-rings on keycap actuation point works (~3mm thickness? it's like fat I think), I use 2 o-rings on fn keys and mouse buttons).

[Data]

I filled out your survey.

I'd be down for minimum 2x slim orders at that price point.

[Lpwl]

I filled out your survey.

I'd be down for minimum 2x slim orders at that price point.

Great !

I just added more info (including MOQ).

[Chicken Chaser]

Did these ever go on sale? I think I'd like the fat o-rings for TKL.

[Lpwl]

I'm still gathering interest but yeah, I would like to start the groupby at the end of August (or sooner).

At the moment, the poll shows :
- 16 packs of "slim" O-rings.
- 8 packs of "fat" O-rings.

MOQ is around 20 packs for each size.


We need more people ! Spread the word.

[taylordcraig]

Tons of people don't check IC threads.
You'll meet MOQ no problem with it being that low.

[Lpwl]

Ok then let's start the groupbuy !


EDIT : Waiting for approval for the last 2 4 days - It can't start without Moderation Team's approval

Still belief waiting.

[Lpwl]

As of today, the poll shows :
- 19 packs of "slim" O-rings.
- 11 packs of "fat" O-rings.

Everything is ready.

[Lpwl]

Moderator Team has denied me their approval - It seems that I do not meet the requirements to start a groupbuy anytime soon (new rules are still being discussed).

I'm willing to pay for it all upfront and let you guys grab them in Classifieds in a few weeks !

[Lpwl]

Great news !

[22/08] I've ordered more than 5000 O-rings.
[27/08] Half has been already produced.

Everything should be here in a week or two.

Soon ^tm in Classifieds ...

[AKmalamute]

Soon ^tm in Classifieds ...

Keep the discussion up ... or find an interesting thread in MakingStuff or something.

You don't meet the requirements yet to open a thread in the classifieds, either ... although you're nearly there.

[Lpwl]

I'm not sure what rule you are talking about.

From *** NEW CLASSIFIEDS RULES (5/17/14) - *** AKA "Why isn't my thread approved?!" :

Creating sale / trade threads in the Classifieds subforum is limited to Geekhack.org users who have been members of the forum for at least 2 months and have 25 or higher post count.

Feel free to correct me

[justspeechless]

Looking forward to buying dem fat o-rings for my tkl

[SpAmRaY]

Moderator Team has denied me their approval - It seems that I do not meet the requirements to start a groupbuy anytime soon (new rules are still being discussed).

I'm willing to pay for it all upfront and let you guys grab them in Classifieds in a few weeks !

This is interesting seeing as how http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=34862 is running a group buy...he is newer than you are

Also I don't see why they would stop a group buy before the rules are made public. 

Just saw your OP edit..post count....really? :facepalm:
 

[Lpwl]

I was asking myself this same question few days ago... I even asked mkawa about it - so far without success.

It's kinda confusing because the rules are saying ≥ 25 post count is ok, but the new rules (which are not yet public) are saying something like : "You need moooore".

It would be great if someone would be able to shed some light on this !

[SpAmRaY]

Guess its time for me to post my how-to article on increasing your post count. :facepalm:

PS: I want to buy one pack each of your o-rings that you so graciously purchased and are giving us the opportunity to try out. 

[Lpwl]

Looking forward to buying dem fat o-rings for my tkl

Guess its time for me to post my how-to article on increasing your post count. :facepalm:

PS: I want to buy one pack each of your o-rings that you so graciously purchased and are giving us the opportunity to try out. 

Great ! I'll keep you updated.

All those double/triple post I've seen this morning are saying to me : "You can do dis bro !"

Ahah

[Chicken Chaser]

When/how will we know when these will appear in the Classifieds? I don't frequent geekhack as frequently as I used to anymore, but I really could use o-rings for my keyboard. Original Cherry doubleshots on my Filco browns clack too loud. Not ideal after moving back home with the 'rents :X

[Lpwl]

I've already received a few thousands of "slim" O-rings but I'm still waiting for the "fat" ones. The package got stuck at the airport.

Everything should be available in a week (max).

I'll send you a PM

[kitsun8]

Hey man could I grab 90 of each type of o-ring when your gb goes up?
I will probably forget so it'd be appreciated if you can send me a PM 

[Lpwl]

Hey man could I grab 90 of each type of o-ring when your gb goes up?
I will probably forget so it'd be appreciated if you can send me a PM 

No worries, I'll keep you updated.

[Lpwl]

Everything is here and looks great !

I'm already making packages of 90 - 110 - 125 "fat" O-rings.

[telegraphist]

Just a note: not all of O-rings are created equal.
I have poor experience with the "008 Silicone O-rings 70A Durometer, Red, 3/16 ID. They are 1/16 width" purchased at Amazone (I think this is 1/16 thickness, not width).
These ones, and slightly thicker black ones (I lost their specs) were not holding for long and spitted, while remaining on the keys.
The WASDkeyboards 40A blue ones, on the other hand, are very good: softer, of course and their elasticity is superb.
I have none of them yet broken for a period of about a year of use.
I wish there were rings offered, made of the same strong and elastic material, but with 150% - 170% thickness of the WASDkeyboards 40A blue ones. I think such thicker O-rings would be perfect for my CM QuickFire linear MX reds.

[Lpwl]

Just a note: not all of O-rings are created equal.
I have poor experience with the "008 Silicone O-rings 70A Durometer, Red, 3/16 ID. They are 1/16 width" purchased at Amazone (I think this is 1/16 thickness, not width).

I'm sorry you had bad experiences with O-rings but you know it took me a long time - thinking, reading and many tries with various thickness and hardness - to finally being able to bring this to you.



There is a fundamental difference of durometer between the product you tried and mine.

Yours : 70A (= hard).
Mine : 40A (= soft).

They feel completely different even if they share more or less the same size !

These ones, and slightly thicker black ones (I lost their specs) were not holding for long and spitted, while remaining on the keys.

The WASDkeyboards 40A blue ones, on the other hand, are very good: softer, of course and their elasticity is superb.
I have none of them yet broken for a period of about a year of use.

I'm using these "fat" and "slim" O-rings without ANY problems for months.

To be honest, I can not enjoy typing on my CODE keyboard anymore without them and this is getting me nervous because I've recently ordered new keycaps (Granite R2 - DSA profile) that do not work well with O-rings.

I'm pretty sure WASDkeyboards's O-rings feel good but they are also very expensive.

This is exactly why I'm trying to bring these products to you.

I wish there were rings offered, made of the same strong and elastic material, but with 150% - 170% thickness of the WASDkeyboards 40A blue ones. I think such thicker O-rings would be perfect for my CM QuickFire linear MX reds.

You should really try my "fat" O-rings as they seem to fit exactly what you are looking for.

The ball is in your court

[Rodgaroon]

OP,

I have the 60A slim model and I'm also worried about them not working so well with my Granite R2. Keep me updated when you get your Granite set. If you feel that these o-rings work well with SP DSA keycaps I will more then happy to buy a package of o-rings off you.

[telegraphist]

...The ball is in your court...

I am confused here.
I understand that those WASDkeyboards 40A rings are quite expensive to you.
I also felt they were expensive, so I saved a little and purchased the same brand rings with free Prime shipping on Amazon and quite happy with them so far.
My question, though, was: whether you, or someone else could possibly offer the O-rings, which are while as elastic and durable as those WASDkeyboards blue ones, are just a little (50% - 60%) thicker?
I don't, by the way, am saying that your rings are of inferior quality, simply because I never tried them.
Just read my post closely, will you? I was talking about my bad experience with other O-rings, I have purchased elsewhere.

[Lpwl]

OP,

I have the 60A slim model and I'm also worried about them not working so well with my Granite R2. Keep me updated when you get your Granite set. If you feel that these o-rings work well with SP DSA keycaps I will more then happy to buy a package of o-rings off you.

No problem !

I'll do some research and I'll keep you updated.

...The ball is in your court...

I am confused here.
I understand that those WASDkeyboards 40A rings are quite expensive to you.
I also felt they were expensive, so I saved a little and purchased the same brand rings with free Prime shipping on Amazon and quite happy with them so far.
My question, though, was: whether you, or someone else could possibly offer the O-rings, which are while as elastic and durable as those WASDkeyboards blue ones, are just a little (50% - 60%) thicker?
I don't, by the way, am saying that your rings are of inferior quality, simply because I never tried them.
Just read my post closely, will you? I was talking about my bad experience with other O-rings, I have purchased elsewhere.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post buddy.

WASDkeyboards are made of EPDM rubber, mine are made of Silicone MVQ but they share the same hardness which is 40 Shore A (aka "soft" O-rings). If you need more information between these two materials, feel free to take a look here (EPDM) and there (MVQ).

Let's compare my "fat" O-rings with WASDkeyboards blue ones :

• Are they as elastic and durable ?
  - Yes, even if they are not made of the same material (EPDM vs Silicone) they share the same "softness".
• Are they thicker ?
  - Yes, it’s the max thickness you can have in an O-ring.
• Are they cheaper ?
  - Yes.

Maybe swill could help us as I know he is writing an O-ring guide.

I've send him some "fat" and "slim" O-rings a month ago but I think he is still pretty busy working on his new house.

[Data]

So are these available and you're just waiting on the fat ones to be delivered?

[swill]

OP,

I have the 60A slim model and I'm also worried about them not working so well with my Granite R2. Keep me updated when you get your Granite set. If you feel that these o-rings work well with SP DSA keycaps I will more then happy to buy a package of o-rings off you.

No problem !

I'll do some research and I'll keep you updated.

...The ball is in your court...

I am confused here.
I understand that those WASDkeyboards 40A rings are quite expensive to you.
I also felt they were expensive, so I saved a little and purchased the same brand rings with free Prime shipping on Amazon and quite happy with them so far.
My question, though, was: whether you, or someone else could possibly offer the O-rings, which are while as elastic and durable as those WASDkeyboards blue ones, are just a little (50% - 60%) thicker?
I don't, by the way, am saying that your rings are of inferior quality, simply because I never tried them.
Just read my post closely, will you? I was talking about my bad experience with other O-rings, I have purchased elsewhere.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post buddy.

WASDkeyboards are made of EPDM rubber, mine are made of Silicone MVQ but they share the same hardness which is 40 Shore A (aka "soft" O-rings). If you need more information between these two materials, feel free to take a look here (EPDM) and there (MVQ).

Let's compare my "fat" O-rings with WASDkeyboards blue ones :

• Are they as elastic and durable ?
  - Yes, even if they are not made of the same material (EPDM vs Silicone) they share the same "softness".
• Are they thicker ?
  - Yes, it’s the max thickness you can have in an O-ring.
• Are they cheaper ?
  - Yes.

Maybe swill could help us as I know he is writing an O-ring guide.

I've send him some "fat" and "slim" O-rings a month ago but I think he is still pretty busy working on his new house.

I have been buried recently with 2 jobs, a renovation and a 1 year old.  I will try to find a few minutes to give you some calculations comparing the 'fat' and 'slim' with the wasd o-rings...

[Lpwl]

So are these available and you're just waiting on the fat ones to be delivered?

Everything is now ready.

All bags are checked and counted by hand (piece by piece). Sale thread in Classifieds is live !

[...]
I have been buried recently with 2 jobs, a renovation and a 1 year old.  I will try to find a few minutes to give you some calculations comparing the 'fat' and 'slim' with the wasd o-rings...

Many thanks swill.

[Lpwl]

Would you guys be interested if I was able to get some "clear" O-rings in soft rubber material ?

I am still in talks with my contact in China to see if it can be produced but I think this could really work well with backlighting keyboards.


.... who said RGB backliiiiiiiiighting ?!!! )

[kitsun8]

Would you guys be interested if I was able to get some "clear" O-rings in soft rubber material ?

I am still in talks with my contact in China to see if it can be produced but I think this could really work well with backlighting keyboards.


.... who said RGB backliiiiiiiiighting ?!!! )

Hmmm I'm gonna need some more information but potentially interested here ;p

[Lpwl]

Just a note: not all of O-rings are created equal.
I have poor experience with the "008 Silicone O-rings 70A Durometer, Red, 3/16 ID. They are 1/16 width" purchased at Amazone (I think this is 1/16 thickness, not width).

I'm sorry you had bad experiences with O-rings but you know it took me a long time - thinking, reading and many tries with various thickness and hardness - to finally being able to bring this to you.

Show Image

There is a fundamental difference of durometer between the product you tried and mine.

Yours : 70A (= hard).
Mine : 40A (= soft).

They feel completely different even if they share more or less the same size !

These ones, and slightly thicker black ones (I lost their specs) were not holding for long and spitted, while remaining on the keys.

The WASDkeyboards 40A blue ones, on the other hand, are very good: softer, of course and their elasticity is superb.
I have none of them yet broken for a period of about a year of use.

I'm using these "fat" and "slim" O-rings without ANY problems for months.

To be honest, I can not enjoy typing on my CODE keyboard anymore without them and this is getting me nervous because I've recently ordered new keycaps (Granite R2 - DSA profile) that do not work well with O-rings.

I'm pretty sure WASDkeyboards's O-rings feel good but they are also very expensive.

This is exactly why I'm trying to bring these products to you.

I wish there were rings offered, made of the same strong and elastic material, but with 150% - 170% thickness of the WASDkeyboards 40A blue ones. I think such thicker O-rings would be perfect for my CM QuickFire linear MX reds.

You should really try my "fat" O-rings as they seem to fit exactly what you are looking for.

The ball is in your court

I bought some WASD 40A blue & red O-rings for proper comparison !







You'll find out more about them soon ^tm

[Vitaly]

You'll find out more about them soon ^tm

Also interesting to compare cheap o-rings from ebay and ali.

[Lpwl]

I can do that !

I'll just need links and some information about hardness with these cheap O-rings.

[Vitaly]

I can do that !

I'll just need links and some information about hardness with these cheap O-rings.

I didn't find info about hardness, that's why I suggest to compare them  I'm interested in fat but as I posted previously they maybe work like 2 thin orings on each other (thickness about the same + soft edges because circular section and thin edges = soft fat o-ring).

http://goo.gl/jMgffg http://goo.gl/w5Mu4X

[Art of Payce]

Put in an order for 90 Fat O-rings... A little disappointed in myself for not ordering a full set before they sold out. Lpwl, let me know if there's any inventory left for a 110 or 125... Thanks!

[Evo_Spec]

Put in an order for 90 Fat O-rings... A little disappointed in myself for not ordering a full set before they sold out. Lpwl, let me know if there's any inventory left for a 110 or 125... Thanks!

This is actually a really old thread, he has an actual FS thread in his signature.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62935.0