Advice for TKL keyboard

[ajx]

Hi, i would definitely switch from my poker II to other 60% / TKL
Poker II is great keyboard, no doubt but no dedicated arrows  and these PBT keycaps, it feels strangely uncomfortable

I found severals great pokers that would fit to my wishes:
- White backlit would be nice
- ABS keycaps as well (but i will be afraid of lettering wearing off over time)
- MX Red or Clear.
- Ship to Europe.

Ducky Shine TKL with MX-Red
- it seem to be out of stock anywhere

Code keyboard TKL with MX-Clear
- Massdrop made a group buy but its for full size!

KBT Pure non backlit version, ABS standard keycaps
Found on amazon.co.uk, ship to Europe.

Ducky Shine has my favor but hard to find it available.
Code keyboard has ping and usb cable issue (that could damage internal keyboard motherboard)
KBT Pure comes with standard ABS keycaps, due to my former experience, it gets shiny quite quickly and lettering (especially on WASD which means alot of keys pressed all massively during short time) could wear off too quickly as well

Note: i got used to type on red, i never tried MX-clear but clearly tempted if they are as good (for typing) as people would pretend
feel free to give any other keyboard suggests

thanks 

[cribbit]

Code on massdrop -> hacksaw to TKL

Clears will almost definitely be expensive or require custom, especially for white backlit. Reds should be easier.

[jameslr]

Just buy the Wasd code w/ clears directly from wasdkeyboards.com. They ship internationally.

[ajx]

Ping issue


Mini usb plug issue

These both issues might annoy me since it cots relatively expensive for mechanical keyboard, about 170 usd and intl ship (i wouldn't  rather to pay in order to send it back)

[Lpwl]

CODE keyboard is still a great choice.

You should not worry about that mini USB connector poor design unless you are planning to move with your keyboard alot.

and I guess that "ping issues" may be related to a bad batch like mine when I bought it in April.

[ajx]

Oh i see, i thought it was related to every Code keyboard 

[Lpwl]

Oh i see, i thought it was related to every Code keyboard 

It may be related to any Code keyboard but I did not heard any complain about it since April

[rowdy]

With care. any USB cable should be able to be plugged and unplugged thousands of times.  The problem with a lot of mechanical keyboards is that the plug has to be angled to fit into the socket underneath they kryboard.  This often puts extra strain on the plug and, more often, on the socket.

You might be surprised how many people discover that the mini-USB socket in the keyboard simply snaps off, as many are held on just by the electrical connectors.

I tend to leave the cable plugged in all the time, partly to avoid straining the plug and socket, but also to keep the right cable with the right keyboard.  About the only one I unplug regularly is the HHKB, and that socket is readily accessible on the back of the keyboard.  I am very careful when I plug and unplug that!

[ajx]

very interesting and helpful, thanks
anyway if i go to the Code keyboard, i will get certainly custom fees.

if we only focus on both Ducky/Code keyboard
Except Ducky can have MX-Red while Code only provides Clear/Green
Which one seems to be better overall?

[Grim Fandango]

I do not know where you are from, but for me personally, it is worth ordering from countries within Europe because Dutch customs is crazy. They will charge you 19% over the cost of whatever you bought + the shipping on the item. On top of that they charge you a customs fee, and they are so slow that you will receive your package a week later than you would normally have received it.

In Europe I have had great experiences with the keyboard company (UK based). They even offer 1 day shipping, which for me always actually meant that I would actually receive the package the next day. They also have layouts for different countries (including US ANSI). They mainly sell Filco, but also offer some other brands like Matias (Alps) and Realfore (Topre). 

Personally I have never used a Tenkeyless I did not like. To a large extent I truly feel like all the Costar made ones with Costar stabilizers all feel the same (CM Quickfire rapid, WASD v2 TKL, Filco MJ2 TKL etc.). Any one of them would be a great option and is unlikely not to satisfy. Outside of those you could consider tenkeyless keyboards with other kind of switches, like the Realforce boards.

If you want dedicated arrow keys, you might also want to look into some of the 75% keyboards. Personally I like them because they have all the things that I miss on a 60%, and they are still nice and centered like a 60% keyboard.

[Oobly]

Have you had a look at the KUL ES-87 with Clears? Not sure there's a European seller though. These guys ship to Europe: https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al

They also have them with Reds. It's a great board.

If you're looking at 75% I would recommend the Keycool 84 II, since it has almost standard layout so you can replace the caps relatively easily compared to the other 75% boards.

[ajx]

Thanks Oobly, yes the KUL ES 87 looks good but non backlit, nonetheless  i still prefer a backli keyboard

I eventually found what i wanted
Ducky Shine 3 TKL in white LEDs
So now i have to decide which one will be my right choice 

Code
+ Looks better with really amazing simple design
+ MX Clear with more pronounced bump tactile which should feel great if you like Brown.
+ Layout / Font, the less they put, the more i like, basic police font, basic layout, i must admit: i love it

+/- Ping issue but from what Lpwl showed in his video, i can live with that
+/- USB plug might be an issue but keyboard will stay in the desktop and wont move.

- Custom taxes
- MX Clear, some of users argue they are a bit stiff, i will be afraid if i don't get used to type on it
- Might be highly priced if custom fees added

Ducky
+ Avail in Europe (great!)
+ MX-Red which its my current type of switch since years

- Snake picture on spacebar, godamn, Ducky, keyboard means desktop stuff, not adding on your keyboard with such crap pictures/logo/icon 
- Pricey (about 150 eur)

[rowdy]

Replacement spacebar is readily available for Ducky - standard layout.

Price - any decent mechanical keyboard with backlighting will cost around $150, so it's pretty par for the course.

A plus is if you can get one locally.  In the unlikely event of a bad keyboard, you need to consider how you would return it.

[Puddsy]

my ducky pings pretty badly just FYI

I think it's the better option but most people complain about ping with the keyboard

[katushkin]

very interesting and helpful, thanks
anyway if i go to the Code keyboard, i will get certainly custom fees.

if we only focus on both Ducky/Code keyboard
Except Ducky can have MX-Red while Code only provides Clear/Green
Which one seems to be better overall?

The customs fees from WASD to the UK were horrendous for me. £30+ on top of the £35 shipping. Which I had to pay twice because of a **** up.

Get a Keycool.

[dantan]

With care. any USB cable should be able to be plugged and unplugged thousands of times.  The problem with a lot of mechanical keyboards is that the plug has to be angled to fit into the socket underneath they kryboard.  This often puts extra strain on the plug and, more often, on the socket.

You might be surprised how many people discover that the mini-USB socket in the keyboard simply snaps off, as many are held on just by the electrical connectors.

I tend to leave the cable plugged in all the time, partly to avoid straining the plug and socket, but also to keep the right cable with the right keyboard.  About the only one I unplug regularly is the HHKB, and that socket is readily accessible on the back of the keyboard.  I am very careful when I plug and unplug that!

Wonder why nobody uses USB full size connector. These are more robust and there is still enough space for them.

[Grim Fandango]

my ducky pings pretty badly just FYI

I think it's the better option but most people complain about ping with the keyboard

A lot of brands and models have this kind of "ping". Filcos are another example. To be honest, it does not bother me in the least.

[RabRhee]

For UK Ducky keyboards and a few other mechanicals I found that CCL list a variety of them, and they deliver to some of Europe. I got a Shine 3 from them and it all went well. Not as cheap as US prices of course, but what is?

http://www.cclonline.com/category/605/Peripherals/Input-Devices/Keyboards/attributeslist/1192001-1192002-1192003-1192004-1192005/

They give a list of 25 european countries they post to, with varying costs. You would have to check to see what they charge for keyboard sized parcels though.

http://support.cclonline.com/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/152/8/international-delivery

[rowdy]

With care. any USB cable should be able to be plugged and unplugged thousands of times.  The problem with a lot of mechanical keyboards is that the plug has to be angled to fit into the socket underneath they kryboard.  This often puts extra strain on the plug and, more often, on the socket.

You might be surprised how many people discover that the mini-USB socket in the keyboard simply snaps off, as many are held on just by the electrical connectors.

I tend to leave the cable plugged in all the time, partly to avoid straining the plug and socket, but also to keep the right cable with the right keyboard.  About the only one I unplug regularly is the HHKB, and that socket is readily accessible on the back of the keyboard.  I am very careful when I plug and unplug that!

Wonder why nobody uses USB full size connector. These are more robust and there is still enough space for them.

No idea.  Maybe a lot of smaller peripherals were made with mini- and micro-USB connectors, leading to the market being flooded with USB to mini-/micro-USB cables, and the keyboard manufacturers just bought those in quantity?

[Kiwi_321]

A Filco Majestouch 2 TKL may suit you if you can let go of the white backlighting. Also, the reds are harder do find on these

[ajx]

I would rather avoid non backlit keyboard since i prefer ABS feeling over PBT
Standard ABS will  be suffering from wearing off issue
I had two keyboards with ABS non backlit keycaps and both had wearing off issue after couple days 

[Oobly]

The Ducky Shine 3 is a solid choice. Be aware that if you buy it in Europe it'll have ISO layout. Which is fine if you don't want to replace the caps a lot, but can be a PITA if you really want some set only available in ANSI. Many Group Buys include ISO kits, though. The keycaps on the Shine 3 are decent, too. If you can solder, you can replace the switches later with Clears It's easy to find a replacement Ducky spacebar and IIRC, with most Shine 3's they include a 2nd spacebar which doesn't have the snake in the package:



The Keycool 87 II with Clears is also a good board, but they're quite hard to find at the moment.

About the "ping", it's not limited to certain brands / models. Any board with MX switches is susceptible to this happening. It seems to be more prevalent with plate mounted Costar stabiliser boards, although I even had some ping on my PCB mounted Cherry stabiliser KBT Pure.... It's a little more noticable now that I've added a plate, but still doesn't bother me. Once my switches are worn in more I'll lubricate them and this will most likely solve any pinging, specifically lubing the base of the springs seems to fix it.

[Grim Fandango]

I would rather avoid non backlit keyboard since i prefer ABS feeling over PBT
Standard ABS will  be suffering from wearing off issue
I had two keyboards with ABS non backlit keycaps and both had wearing off issue after couple days 

I do not really think this has to do with backlit or non-backlit. Some of the backlit keycaps have had similar issues and worse.

More

Instead, look at the method that is used to create the legends on the keycaps (double shot, laser etched, pad printed etc). However, none of those methods should lead to legends wearing off in a matter of days. For example, Filco used one of the crappiest methods for their keycaps by padprinting them (looks horrible too). However, I used a Filco with the stock keycaps for years and the legends have not faded.

[Lastpilot]

I am willing to bet that there will be a Code MX Clear TKL on Massdrop sometime after the full size finishes.

Btw, reds and clears FTW! Good switch taste right thar.

[dodzylla]

Hello guys!

I want some advice too.

I want to buy a new keyboard, i love MINI keyboards, or TKL keyboards. I play a lot of game, usually strategy games, but i love to talk with chat programs, so i thinking about cherry MX brown, or in topre keys.

I need backlight because i play usually in night times.

I need ISO layout too because i am Hungarian:).

Thanks any advice.
Dod

(sorry for my bad english)

[ajx]

Get TKL then, if you plan to play on strategy games, 60% size (mini) misses a lack of accessible keys
RabRhee gave link above which you can buy UK ISO backlit TKL keyboard (Ducky)
I am also from Europe but i want exact opposite, that why i came here for advice as well (usually in Europe, we have more ISO layout than ANSI, being a pain to get us layout + white backlit and TKL)
You got also Pure PRO in 60% size format which has dedicated arrows and big enter keys (ISO layout)
Ducky Mini was also in ISO layout (nordic) but it has been out of stock since months (years?)

[ajx]

I would rather avoid non backlit keyboard since i prefer ABS feeling over PBT
Standard ABS will  be suffering from wearing off issue
I had two keyboards with ABS non backlit keycaps and both had wearing off issue after couple days 

I do not really think this has to do with backlit or non-backlit. Some of the backlit keycaps have had similar issues and worse.

More

Show Image

Instead, look at the method that is used to create the legends on the keycaps (double shot, laser etched, pad printed etc). However, none of those methods should lead to legends wearing off in a matter of days. For example, Filco used one of the crappiest methods for their keycaps by padprinting them (looks horrible too). However, I used a Filco with the stock keycaps for years and the legends have not faded.

I find backlit as cool as useful especially in low light condition
My former KBT Pure had marks of wearing off as well but i could leave with that
I sold it because i have heard many good criticisms about Poker 2 (i had Poker V1), once i received it, i was surprisingly disappointed by its layout, no dedicated arrows, only by Fn+ WASD
Moreover, i regret sometimes the practicality of backlit.
So i am turning into TKL option for having white leds but still being hesitant about keyboard choice (either Ducky or Code keyboard) and its own specific switch (Clear vs Red)

I began using brown then switching to red for the sake of gaming
I found them a bit better for gaming cessions while i frequently make typing mistakes by pressing accidentally wrong keys nearby desired key and also found them overall worse for typing
I am tempted to try either clear or keep staying on red (also tried black for couple times, too stiff for me)

[dantan]

I would rather avoid non backlit keyboard since i prefer ABS feeling over PBT
Standard ABS will  be suffering from wearing off issue
I had two keyboards with ABS non backlit keycaps and both had wearing off issue after couple days 

Couple of days only?

Are you joking?

Are these from very bad brands?

[ajx]

if you start playing and sweating, it could wear off quickly especially on those WASD keys
Other keys are fine

[Oobly]

Hello guys!

I want some advice too.

I want to buy a new keyboard, i love MINI keyboards, or TKL keyboards. I play a lot of game, usually strategy games, but i love to talk with chat programs, so i thinking about cherry MX brown, or in topre keys.

I need backlight because i play usually in night times.

I need ISO layout too because i am Hungarian:).

Thanks any advice.
Dod

(sorry for my bad english)

Ducky Shine 3:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ducky-DK9087-Magenta-Keyboard-DK9087S3-BUKALAAP1-Black/dp/B00G6CPGCI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1407140704&sr=8-3&keywords=ducky+shine+3+tkl

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ducky-Keyboard-DK9087-Shine-Switches/dp/B00IPHPN7U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1407140704&sr=8-4&keywords=ducky+shine+3+tkl

Or CoolerMaster QuickFire Rapid-i:

http://www.cmstore.eu/cm-storm/keyboards/quickfire-rapid-i/

Replacing keycaps on ISO boards can be difficult, but some of the sets sold in Group Buys here have ISO kits. At least the layouts of both boards are standard, so they'll fit any set with ISO kit.

[ajx]

Its even cheaper on Ebay for TKL ISO layout (UK)!
(125 eur with free shipping)

[caesar]

KUL es-87? 

[henz]

Hello guys!

I want some advice too.

I want to buy a new keyboard, i love MINI keyboards, or TKL keyboards. I play a lot of game, usually strategy games, but i love to talk with chat programs, so i thinking about cherry MX brown, or in topre keys.

I need backlight because i play usually in night times.

I need ISO layout too because i am Hungarian:).

Thanks any advice.
Dod

(sorry for my bad english)

I Recently faced  the same issue, my standards were the following:

ISO,
No Backlit bull****,
MX Clears,
Solid Keycaps(PBT or Doubles),
Black board,
Black keys,
TKL

Alot of keyboards come in ISO layout but if you are not sure what you want to have i think you should go with
Ducky or Filco(With no or little hassle). They both come in ISO layout. Not sure if you have special keys but here in sweden we have åäö

Ducky is backlit, filco is not, its hard to find bad reviews on any of the mentioned.

i myself had to do a little research in order to achieve what i wanted i ended up ordering filco doubles from the keyboard company  and a wasd  ISO barebone from wasd.

[pcandkbguy]

i always loved my filco

[ajx]

ISO = ****
ANSI = good 

[mapple]

Hi, i would definitely switch from my poker II to other 60% / TKL
Poker II is great keyboard, no doubt but no dedicated arrows  and these PBT keycaps, it feels strangely uncomfortable

I found severals great pokers that would fit to my wishes:
- White backlit would be nice
- ABS keycaps as well (but i will be afraid of lettering wearing off over time)
- MX Red or Clear.
- Ship to Europe.

Ducky Shine TKL with MX-Red
- it seem to be out of stock anywhere

Code keyboard TKL with MX-Clear
- Massdrop made a group buy but its for full size!

KBT Pure non backlit version, ABS standard keycaps
Found on amazon.co.uk, ship to Europe.

Ducky Shine has my favor but hard to find it available.
Code keyboard has ping and usb cable issue (that could damage internal keyboard motherboard)
KBT Pure comes with standard ABS keycaps, due to my former experience, it gets shiny quite quickly and lettering (especially on WASD which means alot of keys pressed all massively during short time) could wear off too quickly as well

Note: i got used to type on red, i never tried MX-clear but clearly tempted if they are as good (for typing) as people would pretend
feel free to give any other keyboard suggests

thanks 

ducky shine 3 tkl white backlight no problemo, neither sending to europe just ask guys in mechanicalkeyboards.com

[ajx]

sending to Euroe = custom fees
But thanks anyway, the best chance to get Ducky for my own case, its on Ebay (it pretty sucks that my wanted Ducky isnt avail yet on Ebay)

[JaccoW]

AJX, where are you from?

if you want wearproof and backlit take a look at Deck as well

[mapple]

sending to Euroe = custom fees
But thanks anyway, the best chance to get Ducky for my own case, its on Ebay (it pretty sucks that my wanted Ducky isnt avail yet on Ebay)

doode belive u me, been there done that there's no custom fees under 150 Euros for any "cargo" or you can choose option "gift" and then you got 1000 Euros free of charge. As long you are keeping UE ID (passport driving license and so on).

[ajx]

Really? Last time i ve ordered on Mechanicalkeyboards.com, i got huge custom fees while the amount was under 150 euros even ship cost included

[JaccoW]

sending to Euroe = custom fees
But thanks anyway, the best chance to get Ducky for my own case, its on Ebay (it pretty sucks that my wanted Ducky isnt avail yet on Ebay)

doode belive u me, been there done that there's no custom fees under 150 Euros for any "cargo" or you can choose option "gift" and then you got 1000 Euros free of charge. As long you are keeping UE ID (passport driving license and so on).

Dude. A year ago I would have agreed with you. But unless you are ordering from Asia and have the seller undervalue your package chances are slim you will slip through.
The last 6 months everything coming from the USA has been hit with customs charges. The are legally required to state the actual price on the package.

Go there by plane and pick it up, sure. Packages, no bueno.

[Oobly]

Here in Finland, unless the value is under 22€ we get slapped with VAT (24%) on top of the total cost including shipping. If the value is above 150€ we ALSO get charged import duties, which vary depending on the product type and country of origin.

It gets a bit weird for some items, though, since certain types of goods are exempt from VAT or have lowered VAT rates. Bicycles made in China have 48.5% duty +24% VAT!!