Author Topic: A very nit-picky HHKB review (one week update)  (Read 7048 times)

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Offline johndavis33

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A very nit-picky HHKB review (one week update)
« on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:01:50 »
Okay, so I just got my HHKB. It seems like a very good product to write a review about, because every review I read prior to buying it was very one sided, with either pure love for the product, or just frustration by people who really shouldn't have bought it. It's one of the first products where I had thoughts about it, that I didn't really see other people talking about.

So, here's my first impressions. I plan on updating this later with my thoughts once i've had it for a while.

- FIRST IMPRESSIONS -
Okay, so before buying this keyboard I was torn between the HHKB and the fc660c. They were even in my mind but I picked the HHKB because it looked better IMO. The thing I didn't like about the leopold was the wasted space, above the right arrow and below the delete/insert. The problem is, the HHKB ALSO has wasted space next to it's modifiers! The HHKB's wasted space still ends up looking more elegant, so I gave it the pick. However, on a keyboard of this size, I believe ALL the space needs to be used. I mean, I get it, ~minimalism~, but really. The space is already taken it up, it might as well be used. This doesn't happen on the JP version, they realize that. I mean, hell. Give me anything. Give me a backspace key. An f5 key, that's a commonly used one. A key that does nothing but with a funny keycap. A key that instantly types the phrase "I hate ABS spacebars".

Speaking of that. What the hell is with the spacebar. It's good quality ABS that feels like PBT, but it's ABS. So it won't stay feelin' good for long. Eventually it'll be sticky and gross and shiny. ABS is a cost cutting thing. They did it to cut costs on the HHKB. Let's just analyze that sentence for a second.

Cost cutting.
On the HHKB.

This is a keyboard that sells for 260 dollars. How much does a PBT space bar cost? You can get a cherry MX spacebar for 7 dollars. For the sake of conversation, let's say a topre one would cost 20 bucks for PFU to include. Is there seriously anybody who would pay 260 dollars for a keyboard, but wouldn't spend 280? For a keyboard that is marketed as the end all, be all of quality, there's really no reason for this. I'm not sure if it's also a cost cutting measure, but there's only 2 tiny little rubber feet and they're not really enough to keep the keyboard still in most situations. Also, it doesn't have the filco-style rubber on the feet that come out to change the typing angle. If this wasn't for cost cutting reasons, I don't see why they couldn't figure out a way to leave it up to the user to choose. Maybe a set of rubber feet with some adhesive? The keyboard has 2 different sets of feet, to let you type at 3 different angles. I don't see why they couldn't have added another set of feet that didn't really change the typing angle and just added filco-stlye rubber feet. Seriously, there shold be no cost cutting on this keyboard.

Switching to good stuff, now. So I was worried about getting this over the Leopold because I heard it was built better than the HHKB, with a metal plate moutn vs. a plastic case mount. TBH, I think I'd prefer this case mounting compared to plate mounting, but only on topre. The bottoming out for this board is much more forgiving than anything I've ever tried. I never, ever bottom out using cherry switches because it's just really unpleasant. Typing on topre, however, are like typing on boobs. This differnce in bottoming out feeling lets me use a lighter switch, like the 45g topre, compared to the greens and whites I prefer on cherry boards. It's an awesome feeling. The difference between the case mounted switches and the issues that I described earlier, is that yes, it's cheaper than plate mounting, but it adds to the experience as a whole. The keycaps, also, are amazing. The texture is a lot grainier than the other PBT caps I've used. I don't know yet if I prefer it to smoother PBT caps like my ducky dye subs. I will say that the printing is MILES better than the already excellent ducky keys. There is absolutely no running anywhere, even on very tiny font. It's the type of quality I expected buying the HHKB.

The DIP switches are also great. I never really bothered with the dip switches on my duckies, but the I found the dip switches on the HHKB very, very useful. I think I have 4/6 turned on right now. They're great. The big sticker on the back explaining all the dip switches, however, doesn't look very elegant, to be honest. It's on the back, so it's fine when the keyboard is in use. But really, pickign up the keyboard just feels bad. Ducky keyboards have a tiny metal PLAQUE on the bottom, at half the price. The HHKB has a cheap silver sticker. It's not even well applied, for God's sake. The screws, too, are weird. There's no way to cover them up? Honestly, with the screws, the sticker, and the lack of rubber feet, the bottom of this keyboard just feels like a cheap mess.

The keyboard's cable is nice and white, to match the case. However, it's a little bit long. It's a perfectly fine cable length, probably good distance for normal use. It's just that I needed short micro USB cable. I don't know why I expected one from the HHKB, maybe because it was short. There's absolutely no reason for me to be dissapointed by this, and honestly it really shouldn't be in the review. You maybe shouldn't even have read this paragraph.

Even after all my whining, the HHKB is an amazing keyboard. The only thing that I think could give a similar experience would be the fc660c. The layout, the switches, the key caps - all awesome, and unique. To be honest, I didn't believe it before trying this keyboard, but to get an experience like this, you really need to pay to play, and at the end of the day it's worth it. Still, the HHKB is far from perfect. It's got a lot of rough edges. To be honest, for a design that's been unchanged for 8 years, and is supposed to be premium, there are some inexcusably cheap things (ABS spacebar being the prime suspect).

To end it, it's awesome, it's unique, and it's worth the price. But it ain't perfect.

-ONE WEEK LATER-
Okay, so my opinions have changed ever so slightly. First off, about that ABS spacebar. I've learned that when the HHKB was released(2006), manufacturing processes weren't good enough to produce PBT spacebars without warping.

However, it's 2014. And I've got two PBT spacebars that show no warping at all, and they came with boards that are half the cost of the HHKB
72746-0

I don't care when the HHKB was designed. It is supposed to be a premium keyboard. It should be cutting edge, not having to catch up with cheaper boards. Even though no other topre keyboard has one, it's not a non issue. Leopold's FC660C didn't need to include a PBT spacebar, because none of it's competition had one either. But, with other companies like Leopold and Coolermaster making topre boards, how long will it be until a new company releases a topre keyboard with a PBT spacebar?

Really, I think learning that this keyboard was released in 2006 kind of reframes most of the critism I had towards this board. I have no idea what the mechanical keyboard market was like in 2006. I'm judging an 8 year old board by today's standards. I just don't know if the ABS spacebar and build quality would have been up to standards back then. But, they aren't up to today's standards.

I think I know my biggest complaint with the HHKB Pro 2: It isn't the HHKB Pro 3. At this point, the board just seems outdated. I think the HHKB Pro 3 needs to come fast. When it does arrive, it needs a PBT spacebar, variants in 55g and with bluetooth, and a metal case bottom similar to the Northgate Omnikey. Then, the HHKB would be truly deserving of the praise and status that it has.

Still, I freakin' love this keyboard.
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 July 2014, 23:07:50 by johndavis33 »
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline dannejanne

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:13:09 »
I believe they don't make spacebars in PBT because of difficulties in manufacuring. They bend easily after being molded and needs special care to keep tolerances. At least that's what I have heard but I'm not entirely sure it's true. So it's not only to cut costs. It could explain why they are so rare. Not even my Topre has a PBT spacebar.

Offline koalapear

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:15:30 »
Speaking of that. What the hell is with the spacebar. It's good quality ABS that feels like PBT, but it's ABS. So it won't stay feelin' good for long. Eventually it'll be sticky and gross and shiny. ABS is a cost cutting thing. They did it to cut costs on the HHKB. Let's just analyze that sentence for a second.

Cost cutting.
On the HHKB.

I believe the reason the spacebar is ABS is to minimize warping (caused when the PBT cools and contracts after the molding process) that is often associated with longer PBT keys (Signature Plastic's DSA blanks are know for this issue). In fact many PBT keysets have an ABS space bar for this reason (Realforces and most of SP's DSA caps for example).

I agree with your other complaints however. For a board in this price range it should be a model of over-engineering. I have heard many complaints as to the build quality of the HHKB which makes me leery of ever purchasing one. I'll probably end up with a Realforce as my first Topre board because of this.
'91 Model M SSK | NerD 60 (MX Greens) | Realforce 87U 55g | Winkeyless B.87 (MX Greens) | Monarch Matias Custom | HHKB | Duck Octagon (67g Zealios)

Offline johndavis33

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:18:38 »
I believe they don't make spacebars in PBT because of difficulties in manufacuring. They bend easily after being molded and needs special care to keep tolerances. At least that's what I have heard but I'm not entirely sure it's true. So it's not only to cut costs. It could explain why they are so rare. Not even my Topre has a PBT spacebar.
Well, cherry ones work fine, so I assume it would be the mounts. There's gotta be some way to make the mounts out of ABS and the rest out of PBT, or hell, even a PBY coating. Heck, PFU could just use a cherry or proprietary slider for their spacebar, letting them use different mounts. I assure you that people buying the HHKB won't mind the additional cost.
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline rowdy

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:23:31 »
What they said about PBT space bar warping.  Technology (or PBT plastic) has improved such that PBT space bars can now be produced relatively consistently without warping (see the recent DSA Granite set, for example).

Back when HHKB was being made, they probably decided there would be too much wastage and product returns due to faulty (warped) space bars, and opted for ABS instead.  This is very common on PBT sets of old.

And sorry, but I read the paragraph about the cable :p
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline johndavis33

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:27:58 »
Speaking of that. What the hell is with the spacebar. It's good quality ABS that feels like PBT, but it's ABS. So it won't stay feelin' good for long. Eventually it'll be sticky and gross and shiny. ABS is a cost cutting thing. They did it to cut costs on the HHKB. Let's just analyze that sentence for a second.

Cost cutting.
On the HHKB.

I believe the reason the spacebar is ABS is to minimize warping (caused when the PBT cools and contracts after the molding process) that is often associated with longer PBT keys (Signature Plastic's DSA blanks are know for this issue). In fact many PBT keysets have an ABS space bar for this reason (Realforces and most of SP's DSA caps for example).

I agree with your other complaints however. For a board in this price range it should be a model of over-engineering. I have heard many complaints as to the build quality of the HHKB which makes me leery of ever purchasing one. I'll probably end up with a Realforce as my first Topre board because of this.

IMO, the HHKB is still a fine board. I wouldn't get a realforce, personally, due to the bottoming out. This one issue, of the plate mounting vs. case mounting made me rethink a lot of things. It's something that innitially seems cheap, but IMO makes the keyboard better than other expensive options. I was trying to see if other cheap issues were really just hidden good ideas, but most of them sadly weren't.

But is this really a big issue? I have 3 sets of cherry PBT caps with all 3 having PBT space bars. I had really never heard of this issue until I saw that pretty much all topre boards have ABS space bars. But at the end of the day, if any topre keyboard should have a PBT spacebar at this point, it should be the HHKB. Both my duckies were the same price as the type heaven, and they both have PBT space bars. It's gotta be the mounts that cause the issue. In that case, I need me a couple of novatouch sliders.


What they said about PBT space bar warping.  Technology (or PBT plastic) has improved such that PBT space bars can now be produced relatively consistently without warping (see the recent DSA Granite set, for example).

Back when HHKB was being made, they probably decided there would be too much wastage and product returns due to faulty (warped) space bars, and opted for ABS instead.  This is very common on PBT sets of old.

And sorry, but I read the paragraph about the cable :p

^^^^^^ HHKB redesign when?? ^^^^^^
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline koalapear

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:28:15 »
It's either ABS or this:



That's an extreme case but you get the idea.

I think for the prices of Topre boards I would rather have a harsher bottoming out experience (since it doesn't really bother me on Cherries) and get a Realforce that is built like a tank.
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:30:39 by koalapear »
'91 Model M SSK | NerD 60 (MX Greens) | Realforce 87U 55g | Winkeyless B.87 (MX Greens) | Monarch Matias Custom | HHKB | Duck Octagon (67g Zealios)

Offline johndavis33

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:31:47 »
Okay, so my next edit to the review, where I put my feelings about the keyboard after one week, will include update info to reflect the ABS spacebar situation. I don't want to change what I have up there now because it was supposed to be a first impressions thing, and I think anyone who has just bought an HHKB will probably feel the same way as I did about the space bar
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline koalapear

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:39:17 »
Okay, so my next edit to the review, where I put my feelings about the keyboard after one week, will include update info to reflect the ABS spacebar situation. I don't want to change what I have up there now because it was supposed to be a first impressions thing, and I think anyone who has just bought an HHKB will probably feel the same way as I did about the space bar

I wholeheartedly agree with you that ABS is generally a inferior keycap material compared to PBT (the only time I find ABS to be acceptable is stuff like SP's SA caps that are very thick and high quality). It would be nice if PFU could make a revision of the HHKB and take advantage of new technologies and make the keyset all PBT; as spacebar shine plagues all Topre boards. Maybe they can change a few other things while they're at it too.
'91 Model M SSK | NerD 60 (MX Greens) | Realforce 87U 55g | Winkeyless B.87 (MX Greens) | Monarch Matias Custom | HHKB | Duck Octagon (67g Zealios)

Offline rowdy

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:39:58 »
What they said about PBT space bar warping.  Technology (or PBT plastic) has improved such that PBT space bars can now be produced relatively consistently without warping (see the recent DSA Granite set, for example).

Back when HHKB was being made, they probably decided there would be too much wastage and product returns due to faulty (warped) space bars, and opted for ABS instead.  This is very common on PBT sets of old.

And sorry, but I read the paragraph about the cable :p

^^^^^^ HHKB redesign when?? ^^^^^^


Redesign?  Where did you read that? :))

The PBT space bar production process has been refined, that's all.  Maybe if there was a new run of HHKB PFU might include a PBT space bar.  Or might not.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline johndavis33

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:51:53 »
What they said about PBT space bar warping.  Technology (or PBT plastic) has improved such that PBT space bars can now be produced relatively consistently without warping (see the recent DSA Granite set, for example).

Back when HHKB was being made, they probably decided there would be too much wastage and product returns due to faulty (warped) space bars, and opted for ABS instead.  This is very common on PBT sets of old.

And sorry, but I read the paragraph about the cable :p

^^^^^^ HHKB redesign when?? ^^^^^^


Redesign?  Where did you read that? :))

The PBT space bar production process has been refined, that's all.  Maybe if there was a new run of HHKB PFU might include a PBT space bar.  Or might not.

I don't know if there will be.

But if manufacturing processes have changed, then there should be one. It's over due.
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline dannejanne

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 01:06:22 »
A lot of technical products have different revisions so I don't see why keyboards should not. PBT for the win!

Offline johndavis33

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 01:08:18 »
A lot of technical products have different revisions so I don't see why keyboards should not. PBT for the win!
This keyboard ESPECCIALLY should have a revision.

The HHKB should be cutting edge. It shouldn't be playing catch up.
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline rowdy

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Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 01:38:51 »
A lot of technical products have different revisions so I don't see why keyboards should not. PBT for the win!
This keyboard ESPECCIALLY should have a revision.

The HHKB should be cutting edge. It shouldn't be playing catch up.

Discussion by the pundits here.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Elrick

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  • Posts: 4895
  • Location: CrapTown, Convict Settlement
  • Keyboard Orgasmist
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 06:56:27 »
Even an older standard Cherry G80-1865 has a PBT spacer key done in black or beige (depending on which coloured keyboard you buy).

So if Cherry Corp could supply PBT space-bars why would the world of Thorpe be so cheap and nasty still?  They always ask for far higher price tags but you get the same cheapo ABS spacer key for your price tag.

Making PBT space-bars is extremely doable and cost effective so please no more playing the tired old argument that it can not be done or that PBT warps when it's made.  If Cherry Corp can still make the G80-1800 series with PBT spacers, then why hasn't anyone else?

Offline Fragil1ty

  • Posts: 551
  • Location: England
  • Abre los ojos.
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 19:58:01 »
Seems like everyone is getting a HHKB lately. Hm, very interesting.
你搞砸了

Offline jameslr

  • Posts: 516
  • Location: Indiana
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 20:16:00 »
IMO, the HHKB is still a fine board. I wouldn't get a realforce, personally, due to the bottoming out. This one issue, of the plate mounting vs. case mounting made me rethink a lot of things. It's something that innitially seems cheap, but IMO makes the keyboard better than other expensive options. I was trying to see if other cheap issues were really just hidden good ideas, but most of them sadly weren't.

Not sure I understand where you're coming from. I have both HHKB and Realforce and I don't experience anything negative about bottoming out on either of these. What are you talking about exactly? IMO if you put a Realforce up against an HHKB in the quality department the Realforce comes out ahead in a few ways, but it's not perfect either. It just depends on what you're looking for in a keyboard I suppose.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline Grim Fandango

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1036
  • Location: The Moon
  • "The living still give me the creeps."
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 25 July 2014, 20:18:41 »
I like the Happy Hacking keyboard for 3 reasons:
-Topre
-Looks
-Size

My problems with it:
-Price
-Layout

I know there are a lot of people out there who like the layout of this keyboard, but it is not for me. No doubt I will be able to get used to it, but it will never be as practical for me as most 75% or TKL keyboards. 
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 July 2014, 20:21:14 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
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  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 26 July 2014, 03:43:20 »
Layout is half the fun of the HHKB!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline GeorgeK

  • Posts: 758
  • Location: Ashford, Kent, United Kingdom
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 26 July 2014, 05:30:53 »
Personally I find the layout to be better than most, if not all, of the other 60% keyboards out there (that is until I get my GH60s lol).  The fn layer is much more intuitive than my Poker for example.  The ABS spacebar is a shame but I don't really notice it in use tbh - the only PBT spacebar I have is the geekhack one from techkeys and that's warped as hell - even after me trying to straighten it it's practically unusable (it is actually unusable on any boards with Cherry stabs...
Black Filco TKL - Stickered, Lubed Reds || Poker w/Plate, Alu Case -  Stickered, Lubed 65g Ergo-Clears || Cherry G80-3700 w/SS Plate - Lubed 65g Ergo-Clears

Offline johndavis33

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 231
  • Location: USA, Massachusetts
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 26 July 2014, 14:06:33 »
IMO, the HHKB is still a fine board. I wouldn't get a realforce, personally, due to the bottoming out. This one issue, of the plate mounting vs. case mounting made me rethink a lot of things. It's something that innitially seems cheap, but IMO makes the keyboard better than other expensive options. I was trying to see if other cheap issues were really just hidden good ideas, but most of them sadly weren't.

Not sure I understand where you're coming from. I have both HHKB and Realforce and I don't experience anything negative about bottoming out on either of these. What are you talking about exactly? IMO if you put a Realforce up against an HHKB in the quality department the Realforce comes out ahead in a few ways, but it's not perfect either. It just depends on what you're looking for in a keyboard I suppose.

I've never felt a realforce, so I can't really compare. But I'm a very heavy handed typist. I'm used to cherry mx greens and whites. I know that on my cherry boards, bottoming out on pcb and case mounted keyboards is much more forgiving than on plate mounted boards. So, because I always bottom out on topre, I think I'll prefer the case mounted switches like on the HHKB to the plate mounted realforce ones. I'll still prefer a plate for my cherry switches, however. It feels more solid to type on a plate mounted board when not bottoming out, IMO.
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline osi

  • Posts: 964
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 26 July 2014, 17:33:18 »
This a good review. I like the nit-picking because the main focus is a non issue really.

FC660c and the Realforce 87s also come with ABS spacebars.

Therefore you have no issues and are actually really enjoying the board.

:D :D

Offline Kravid

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: London, UK
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 28 July 2014, 07:10:48 »
Where do you guys buy this keyboard new?

I just walked out of a Seoul shop where I was told by the manager he only expects to receive a new batch of the HHKB Professional 2 near the end of this year...

EDIT: after a crash-course in basic reading comprehension, I noticed that Fragil1ty's review mentions at least one online distributor. Still, I cannot find it anywhere in specialised brick-and-mortar stores and I do not even see it on pfusystems.com? What kind of marketing is this...
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 July 2014, 07:35:42 by Kravid »

Offline johndavis33

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 231
  • Location: USA, Massachusetts
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 28 July 2014, 15:37:57 »
Where do you guys buy this keyboard new?

I just walked out of a Seoul shop where I was told by the manager he only expects to receive a new batch of the HHKB Professional 2 near the end of this year...

EDIT: after a crash-course in basic reading comprehension, I noticed that Fragil1ty's review mentions at least one online distributor. Still, I cannot find it anywhere in specialised brick-and-mortar stores and I do not even see it on pfusystems.com? What kind of marketing is this...

I live the in the USA, and other than gaming keyboards, there's only been one time I've ever seen a mechanical keyboard in a brick and mortar store. And that was a microcenter about 3 blocks away from MIT, and even still it was just a couple of ducky boards.

I bought my HHKB at elitekeyboards.com
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS

Offline johndavis33

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 231
  • Location: USA, Massachusetts
Re: A very nit-picky HHKB review.
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 28 July 2014, 23:07:29 »
One week of use update!

Hasn't really been exactly a week, but i'll be busy tomorrow, so I decided to write it today.
HAVE AND WILL KEEP: HHKB - Printed white | Ducky Banana edition - Whites | Model M13 | Unidentified Goodwill keyboard - Simplified black ALPS
TOO BE SOLD: TG3 BL82 - Clears | Wheelwrite 5 - Buckling Springs typewriter
SOLD: Rosewill RK9000 - Blacks | QFR - Blues | Ducky G2 Pro - Greens |
IT WILL BE MINE: Northgate Omnikey - White ALPS