If you could start all over, what would you buy today?

[TheMark]

I'm new to the keyboard modding scene, I want to start this obsession with a good base. I work at home allot, I don't game much. Back in the early 90's I worked for a system builder who was obsessed with the original IBM mechanicals so I'm no stranger to clacking.

Budget is $250
 
I prefer the 87 key TKL layout, (fixed, thx jdcarpe)

I want longevity, this is very important.

Edit: one more thing, I kinda need it soon...as in THIS week.

[jdcarpe]

It's 87-key, rather than 86-key, but I would recommend starting with a KUL ES-87 with MX Clears. They should be in stock at EliteKeyboards and MechanicalKeyboards. If I had started with that, I probably wouldn't have needed to go through SO many keyboards to find what I liked.

[TheMark]

It's 87-key, rather than 86-key, but I would recommend starting with a KUL ES-87 with MX Clears. They should be in stock at EliteKeyboards and MechanicalKeyboards. If I had started with that, I probably wouldn't have needed to go through SO many keyboards to find what I liked.

Thank you.

How/where can I find different key caps for the KUL?

[dustinhxc]

Get a Poker with clears and get expedited shipping! 

[jdcarpe]

My recommendation for keycaps would be for a set of GMK doubleshots, if you can find them. Originativeco.com has several sets listed for sale, but they have proven to be somewhat less than reliable with regard to shipping things out in a timely manner. Techkeys.us has several full sets of double shot keycaps made by Signature Plastics. You can also always get full sets for black or white double shots from SP at pimpmykeyboard.com.

[TheMark]

Perfect,thanks.

I'm embarrassed to ask this as I'm sure it's laughably noobish

What is "GMK" and what is the difference between a "double shot" and say a "dolce"?

[TheMark]

Get a Poker with clears and get expedited shipping! 

Thanks, I'm more comfortable with the 87 key layout though.

[rowdy]

Perfect,thanks.

I'm embarrassed to ask this as I'm sure it's laughably noobish

What is "GMK" and what is the difference between a "double shot" and say a "dolce"?

Everyone starts somewhere

GMK is a German manufacturer of high quality keycaps.

Doubleshot refers to makeing keycaps in two parts - the legends and the, er, the rest of the keycap.  These are extremely durable and the legends will never wear down.

Dolch is a grayish/black colour scheme that was used for keyboards on network testing equipment - that colour scheme has proven very popular recently.

[dorkvader]

GMK make nice keycaps, but I prefer dyesub PBT. You can get it from imsto.
for example: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=59

Up to you of course. Both are really solid options, especially compared with most stock keycaps.

[TheMark]

Thanks all, very helpful.

Would it be a mistake in your opinion to start out with something like a Realforce 87u? Seems like I might lock myself into a corner as far as key upgrades. (I want black, but want the std keys a lighter color)

[jdcarpe]

Thanks all, very helpful.

Would it be a mistake in your opinion to start out with something like a Realforce 87u? Seems like I might lock myself into a corner as far as key upgrades. (I want black, but want the std keys a lighter color)

If you're going Topre, just get a HHKB and make yourself happy with your endgame keyboard.

[CPTBadAss]

I would skipped the black widow and went straight to a filco.

[TheMark]

Thanks all, very helpful.

Would it be a mistake in your opinion to start out with something like a Realforce 87u? Seems like I might lock myself into a corner as far as key upgrades. (I want black, but want the std keys a lighter color)

If you're going Topre, just get a HHKB and make yourself happy with your endgame keyboard.

Do they make one that has function keys and arrow keys?

[jdcarpe]

Thanks all, very helpful.

Would it be a mistake in your opinion to start out with something like a Realforce 87u? Seems like I might lock myself into a corner as far as key upgrades. (I want black, but want the std keys a lighter color)

If you're going Topre, just get a HHKB and make yourself happy with your endgame keyboard.

Do they make one that has function keys and arrow keys?

Once you start using the HHKB, and dedicate yourself to using it, you don't need dedicated keys for those. Their placement on the function layer, and the way you access them, is so logical and natural, that you have no trouble adapting.

[HoffmanMyster]

Thanks all, very helpful.

Would it be a mistake in your opinion to start out with something like a Realforce 87u? Seems like I might lock myself into a corner as far as key upgrades. (I want black, but want the std keys a lighter color)

If you're going Topre, just get a HHKB and make yourself happy with your endgame keyboard.

Do they make one that has function keys and arrow keys?

Once you start using the HHKB, and dedicate yourself to using it, you don't need dedicated keys for those. Their placement on the function layer, and the way you access them, is so logical and natural, that you have no trouble adapting.

+1

Only downside is that using the F keys requires two hands (true of every 60%, but is a factor when comparing to 87u).  So F5ing a sale thread becomes a little more tedious.   )

Also, if you require heavy use of a numpad, get an external one (you would already need that with a TKL anyway, but still - the HHKB does not fix this "problem", if you could call it that, despite having a lovely fn layer)

[heedpantsnow]

I've owned Filco, PLU, Ducky, Plum, Noppoo, and 3x Poker X's. If I had it to do over, I would just do the Pokers, though I'm glad I had the chance to try so many. That's part of the hobby!

[TheMark]

I'm sitting here staring at the pic of a HHKB,  there is just no way I want to spend the time learning it. I still spend 50% of my time on my trusty ThinkPad when I'm moving through meeting rooms.

I've narrowed down to either the Realforce silent, KUL clear, or  Ducky Premier blue... (yes I realize they're all different)

Life was easier before I knew of all these options.

[Grim Fandango]

I use my keyboards around either my colleagues or my girlfriend. Neither liked the noise my keyboards used to make. In the end I switched to quieter keyboards and switches. I am a fan of both Realforce's Silent Topre and the Matias quiet alps. Even though they feel very different from one another.

In the end, you have to decide on the features you are after. The amount of noise the keyboard makes, for example, is a big thing for me. Most people here do not really care about it. I just wanted to illustrate that different people value different things in a keyboard.

[CPTBadAss]

I've narrowed down to either the Realforce silent, KUL clear, or  Ducky Premier blue... (yes I realize they're all different)

I was seriously impressed by Ducky when I modded a Ducky OMG keyboard a little while ago. If you're considering these boards, I put my vote in with the Ducky.

[TheMark]

Ok I think the Realforce is what I'm going with.

Now, is the silent model worth the price?  The 55g model is sold out but there is a 45g model and the plain variable.

Am I really going to notice the variable? I'm leaning towards the silent.

[exitfire401]

I would have hopped right in with my 87u 55g and bought a 2nd graphite digilog case.

[ComradeSniper]

Elitekeyboard's recent newsletter said the 55g Realforces will be shipping out before August 5th. 55g Topre is my favorite switch and I would recommend the 55g Realforce over any other board, but that's purely a matter of preference 

45g Topre is still very nice. I've never tried variable or silent, so I can't comment on that.

[TheMark]

Elitekeyboard's recent newsletter said the 55g Realforces will be shipping out before August 5th. 55g Topre is my favorite switch and I would recommend the 55g Realforce over any other board, but that's purely a matter of preference 

45g Topre is still very nice. I've never tried variable or silent, so I can't comment on that.

Noooooooooo!

Why did you mention that case to me? I'm new, you're supposed to be kind to noobs. Every new guy is a sucker for aluminum, you know this (don't deny it).

Allright now I'm going with a white model and graphite Digilog case. Dammit!

[TheMark]

So I just got off the phone with a very helpful gentleman at elitekeyboards. He spent 30min with me and I feel that after that conversation... the KUL (brown) might fit my needs exactly. The only issue left is finding quality keycaps for it.

(Yes, I'm aware of the u turn)
Thanks again everyone,  this is a great forum!

[jdcarpe]

Not that there is anything wrong with brown switches, as I use them now and then, but I still recommend the clears over browns. The tactile bump is more pronounced, and the springs have a unique force curve that is arguably the best of all MX switches. To some people, browns feel almost linear, but with a distasteful feeling like a grain of sand at the tactile bump (actuation). I've never heard any complaints in that vein with clears.

[TheMark]

Not that there is anything wrong with brown switches, as I use them now and then, but I still recommend the clears over browns. The tactile bump is more pronounced, and the springs have a unique force curve that is arguably the best of all MX switches. To some people, browns feel almost linear, but with a distasteful feeling like a grain of sand at the tactile bump (actuation). I've never heard any complaints in that vein with clears.

Understood, I suspect I'll have a clear very soon :-)

The rationale for going brown, is that I don't have any real complaints with the feel of my existing G710, so for my "daily driver", don't fix what's not broken...

[TheMark]

Will these keys work well on the KUL? And is this a reasonable upgrade in quality?

http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&page=2&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=61

It's officially on order BTW

[FrostyToast]

An SSK fits in that price range.
I would want to start over and buy it, just so that I wouldn't have an internal fight with myself every time I see a listing.

[TheMark]

An SSK fits in that price range.
I would want to start over and buy it, just so that I wouldn't have an internal fight with myself every time I see a listing.

Sorry, buts what's an "SSK"?

[HoffmanMyster]

An SSK fits in that price range.
I would want to start over and buy it, just so that I wouldn't have an internal fight with myself every time I see a listing.

Sorry, buts what's an "SSK"?

Have fun!

[domoaligato]

I would have just built my own.

[FrostyToast]

An SSK fits in that price range.
I would want to start over and buy it, just so that I wouldn't have an internal fight with myself every time I see a listing.

Sorry, buts what's an "SSK"?

Have fun!

What have you done?!
You've destroyed his life now. First it's going to be just the keyboard, then it's going to be bolt modding, then some mods, and before you know it, he's trying to buy a spumoni for $800.
You have sent this man on a dark path.

[TheMark]

An SSK fits in that price range.
I would want to start over and buy it, just so that I wouldn't have an internal fight with myself every time I see a listing.

Sorry, buts what's an "SSK"?

Have fun!

lol, The need for nostalgia hasn't hit yet. I spent many years of my career on those old IBMs... I also threw away at least 6- model M's (NIB) when we moved in 2003.

Sacrilege, I know... In my defense, I thought "who would ever want these monsters" (now I know) :fail

[TheMark]

An SSK fits in that price range.
I would want to start over and buy it, just so that I wouldn't have an internal fight with myself every time I see a listing.

Sorry, buts what's an "SSK"?

Have fun!

What have you done?!
You've destroyed his life now. First it's going to be just the keyboard, then it's going to be bolt modding, then some mods, and before you know it, he's trying to buy a spumoni for $800.
You have sent this man on a dark path.

"Spumoni" ?? (Googling now)

[TheMark]

I can't find "Spumoni", I assume it's a member here that does something cool.

Also, I just changed my order from browns, to clears... Yup, I'm hooked.

[jdcarpe]

I can't find "Spumoni", I assume it's a member here that does something cool.

Also, I just changed my order from browns, to clears...

It's an artisan keycap made by Clack Factory, aka ClickClack.

And haha, good for you. You did say if we could start over, what would we choose, and I would have chosen clears.

[FrostyToast]

I can't find "Spumoni", I assume it's a member here that does something cool.

Also, I just changed my order from browns, to clears... Yup, I'm hooked.

Here, it's a one of a kind Buckling Spring Click Clack

No one really knows what it's worth, but it's one of a kind from Clack, so it must be bajillions.

[rowdy]

lol, The need for nostalgia hasn't hit yet. I spent many years of my career on those old IBMs... I also threw away at least 6- model M's (NIB) when we moved in 2003.

Sacrilege, I know... In my defense, I thought "who would ever want these monsters" (now I know) :fail

[TheMark]

I can't find "Spumoni", I assume it's a member here that does something cool.

Also, I just changed my order from browns, to clears...

You did say if we could start over, what would we choose, and I would have chosen clears.

That's why I changed...

How about keys for this sucker, where can I get the PBT caps in a reasonable time?

These??

http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&page=2&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=59

[rowdy]

I can't find "Spumoni", I assume it's a member here that does something cool.

Also, I just changed my order from browns, to clears...

You did say if we could start over, what would we choose, and I would have chosen clears.

That's why I changed...

How about keys for this sucker, where can I get the PBT caps in a reasonable time?

These??

http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&page=2&manufacturer_id=13&product_id=59

I'm not sure how quickly imsto ships, but qtan does ship very quickly: http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/category/cateogry1-name/catId=3982960

[TheMark]

I'm really liking these, but they're pricey for not being GMK, no?

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/bsp-classic-beige

[jdcarpe]

I'm really liking these, but they're pricey for not being GMK, no?

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/bsp-classic-beige

No, those are thick PBT dyesub by the same company that did the classic dyesub for Cherry Corp.

But don't be biased against ABS, just because it is the current 'group think.' Thick double shot ABS made by GMK are my absolute favorite.

[TheMark]

I'm really liking these, but they're pricey for not being GMK, no?

http://www.originativeco.com/collections/keysets/products/bsp-classic-beige

No, those are thick PBT dyesub by the same company that did the classic dyesub for Cherry Corp.

But don't be biased against ABS, just because it is the current 'group think.' Thick double shot ABS made by GMK are my absolute favorite.

So to clarify, those thick ones will fit?

I don't see any ABS made by GMK. I must be missing something.

These guys are in the US, I assume delivery times are good?

[t2russo]

That BSP PBT won't fit an 87 key, doesn't include a spacebar, and is generally kind of "meh" in terms of overall QC and product. 

This set here is GMK and one of the few ABS products I lust over.

I would keep your eye out here for sets of GMK ABS, used IMSTO PBT sets, or something like these bad boys if you wanted blanks/ninja side printing.

Main two points I look for in a keycap set-

• Cherry profile (lower than stock Filco, Ducky, CM keycaps, I find them more ergonomic)
• Thick keywalls (sound of your keyboard is determined by several factors, one of which is the mass of the keys on it)

[TheMark]

That BSP PBT won't fit an 87 key, doesn't include a spacebar, and is generally kind of "meh" in terms of overall QC and product. 

This set here is GMK and one of the few ABS products I lust over.

I would keep your eye out here for sets of GMK ABS, used IMSTO PBT sets, or something like these bad boys if you wanted blanks/ninja side printing.

Main two points I look for in a keycap set-

• Cherry profile (lower than stock Filco, Ducky, CM keycaps, I find them more ergonomic)
• Thick keywalls (sound of your keyboard is determined by several factors, one of which is the mass of the keys on it)

Thank you!

That charred orange set you linked above, I'm a little confused by the note on the bottom of the description...

"Note:  The set does not include 1x Win Winkey"

Will I need winkeys to complete the set??

[jdcarpe]

Your KUL uses 1.25-unit keys on the bottom row, so you won't need a 1-unit Win key at all. Those are for keyboards that use a 1.5-1-1.5-7-1.5-1-1.5 bottom row. Modern standard ANSI is 1.25-1.25-1.25-6.25-1.25-1.25-1.25-1.25

[FrostyToast]

Just be warned about buying from Sherry aka originative.
Some people have been saying that they are hit and miss and well I guess there is a reason why they don't have a vendor forum anymore.
Me personally, I have had a good experience with Sherry, but that was for just one order I made.

[TheMark]

Just be warned about buying from Sherry aka originative.
Some people have been saying that they are hit and miss and well I guess there is a reason why they don't have a vendor forum anymore.
Me personally, I have had a good experience with Sherry, but that was for just one order I made.

Damn... $100 worth of keys, is there a "ultimate" source for high quality keys?

I don't mind spending the cash... But I don't want to deal with shady product.

[t2russo]

1x winkey is part of a "winkeyless" or original Cherry style keyset, which only contains 84 keys (bottom row only has ctrls, alts, and a spacebar).

The "standard" 87-key winkey layout is the one you would see on a Filco, a CM Quickfire Rapid, or a Ducky, where it adds the windows keys and the menu key. 

Most aftermarket keysets (NOT THE BSP ONE, they are an exception) are made to fit a standard Filco/QFR/Ducky out of the box.  The charred orange will have the keys to fill out any of those keyboards, as will the IMSTO and Leopold sets I mentioned.

I will echo the statements about Originative and recommend you look elsewhere for your keys.  They offer some neat products but the service is definitely less than satisfactory.  I'm personally going to be picking up a set of the Leopold keys from ebay now that I have a naked Filco sitting around.  You should be able to find used sets of IMSTO PBT or GMK on the classifieds here, but be prepared to lurk hard as they are very nice and thus very popular 

N.B. Some Leopold keyboards have funky spacebar sizing.  MOST keysets have a spacebar with universal mounts to accommodate, but some do not.

[jdcarpe]

FWIW, I've never had any issues ordering from Originative. I know some people have had issues with getting their items in a timely fashion, but that has never been my personal experience.