Dark Chocolate Layout design. What do you think?

[Dark Ethereal]

I've been working on a very... unique physical layout design, just for fun really. I doubt I'll get round to actually making it.
Here it is:

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Original Imgur album here.

As you can see, it's a matrix layout, it's got 51 keys, and it's smaller than a Poker II. It's got a very non-standard layout.
It'd be designed to have just about all the functionality of a full size keyboard, through the use of an extra num/nav shift layer, and a Fn key for accessing F keys.

The design is still a work in progress. I haven't even started on a case design yet, and the keycaps aren't done either.

There's an FAQ section on the Imgur album, and I'd be glad to answer any questions you have, but I'd also really like your feedback.

The design was made in SolidWorks. It's modeled after a chocolate bar because when I was making it with very basic key key caps, they matrix layout looked like a chocolate bar, so I modeled the keycaps off of chocolate bar chunks and colored it appropriately.

If you can see any glaring problems with the design such as key combo clashes, do tell!

[FrostyToast]

A bit odd to have all of the columns parallel to each other.
But I do like that snazzy bottom row.

[Dark Ethereal]

A bit odd to have all of the columns parallel to each other.
But I do like that snazzy bottom row.

It's actually more intentional than the whole chocolate look it's got going on.
If you ever look at the high end mechanical keyboards, they all have keys aligned column wize, like so:

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Basically the standard "offset" keys are a relic of the typewriter, where they were a technical necessity. Keys had to be offset so that the key levers had room to fit in. When computer keyboards were designed, everyone had been typing on typewriter boards for so long that it was easier to just use a typewriter layout so people didn't have to re-learn.
Columnar layout is still far better ergonomic wize, even if I have gotten used to it.

[adventurepoop]

Looks decent, I would be interested in what the keys would actually be. I assume the fn wouldn't be to access another layer, which would be the purpose of the number shift and such?

[Dark Ethereal]

For keycaps, I'm planning on making a specific chocolate chunk shaped keycap, which would be available for 3D printing, but realistically that'd probably be cost prohibitive, so I think the best option would be any non-sculpted keycap sets, like DSA.

If I could actually get this keyboard made, and get DIY kits distributed like ErgoDox has, I'd do a chocolate colored Signature Plastics DSA group buy.

[joneslee85]

the idea is interesting

1) Can't we use Fn to shift between Nav and Num keys? What are the philosophies behind having two separate switcher for nav and num?

2) IMHO the Fn key should be placed at the Shift key, and move Shift key to Tab (yes, remove Tab completely)

[adventurepoop]

the idea is interesting

1) Can't we use Fn to shift between Nav and Num keys? What are the philosophies behind having two separate switcher for nav and num?

2) IMHO the Fn key should be placed at the Shift key, and move Shift key to Tab (yes, remove Tab completely)

As someone who uses tab a lot to move through forms, please no D:

[Dark Ethereal]

the idea is interesting

1) Can't we use Fn to shift between Nav and Num keys? What are the philosophies behind having two separate switcher for nav and num?

2) IMHO the Fn key should be placed at the Shift key, and move Shift key to Tab (yes, remove Tab completely)

The issue is how do you access the F keys?
If I could deal with the F row, I'd happily remove or replace the Fn key. Maybe I'd make it the dedicated Esc key.

[davkol]

The layout certainly looks interesting. There's no escape though...

I think it looks too long and narrow for a chocolate bar. I'd either add one row, or make the keyboard split (i.e. two chocolate bars). Also, modifiers on the bottom row. I'm afraid 1.5x is too wide (I'm currently using a grid keypad with 1x keys everywhere).

[jacobolus]

Cute theme with the chocolate bar thing. I don’t think a rectangle grid is especially good at fitting the shape of human hands though. Also, I don’t think I’d like a keyboard where the pinky fingers are responsible for >40% of the keys.

[dorkvader]

Do you plan on going colemak-esque with rolls (on the left hand primarily) or dvorak-esque with a dominant rightpinky and all the vowels in a row? I would suspect colemak esque might be better for the physical layout, as alternation hardly makes sense with that layout, but maybe adopting LH dvorak variant would be best.

Then again, I don't think the numbers (on a shifted layer?) will seriously get in the way of the rightside letterkeys. Especially given the lengthy homerow, maybe a dvorak-like layout is best.

Things I really like:
split spacebar
same-size mod keys all ;round the bottom and outside
column layout better than weird stagger, especially for lefthand (and gaming)
"wide" type design, with the two hands being split two units like that

Not so sure about:
total length
collection of punctuation keys being where they are. The index finger can access them quite well, but I wonder if having other things be there is better ("enter" modifiers, function keys, etc.
no "delete" key? maybe fn+bksp is good enough.
also not sure about 1.5 mods, though I do like the difference between them and the other keys: makes it easy to hit I suppose (I had some issues adjusting to a full 1x KB mods when I used one)

[sakai4eva]

The layout certainly looks interesting. There's no escape though...

I think it looks too long and narrow for a chocolate bar. I'd either add one row, or make the keyboard split (i.e. two chocolate bars). Also, modifiers on the bottom row. I'm afraid 1.5x is too wide (I'm currently using a grid keypad with 1x keys everywhere).

Pun detected

[CPTBadAss]

It's an interesting layout that reminds me of the 7bit board. I think I'd swap out the enter and Nav Shift though. And for me, I definitely would want a dedicated escape...and no DSA caps haha. But I do like how you don't need any stabilizers for this board.

[Dark Ethereal]

Interesting... I hadn't even realized about the lack of stabliizers needed. I'll have to try and keep that!
Is it easy to obtain 2.5 keys? because otherwize the spacebar size will have to change.

I've got no specific preference for DSA caps, other than the fact that I don't own any yet, but I think it'll need a non-sculpted profile. Anything with curving contours may run into issues of obtaining certain size keys for certain rows.

For layout, I'm thinking a colemak varient would be best. I tried learning Dvorak and I just really missed the one handed clipboard key combos. It'd be nice to have a mathematical way to find where the center keys should end up though.
To be honest, at a controller level, the keyboard will just be switching some of the letter keys with the punctuation keys, so you should be able to switch between all sorts of layouts.

Delete key is going to be on Shift backspace, because that makes all kinds of sense to me.

The side and bottom row key sizes might have to change, depending on what I do about the space/backspace keys. I need to make sure they are easy enough to obtain, so if 2.5 isn't a common key size, I'll have to re-jig things. I'm also looking at moving at the function key, and putting it on another row to the left of the left edge, along with a dedicated Esc key.
Alternatively, I could put it on NumShift+Space.

[adventurepoop]

How would you not need stabilisers? 2.5 usually has them.

[OverKill]

2x keys and above have stab's.

I would also like to add unless you like changing your layout to something non standard, do a standard qwerty grid layout. That is one thing I learned from my adventure of my board. If I were to do it again (which I will at some point) I will use a standard qwerty layout probably (or something that uses the same number of keys). When I designed my board my theory was "26 letter alphabet, 13 keys per hand, 3 rows of 4 plus 1 key" very similar to yours. It makes for very awkward typing and takes a lot of getting used to (mostly because you have to completely change the layout).

[davkol]

2x vertical thumb keys don't need stabs, proven in actuality by ergodox users. 2x keys over two switches don't need stabs either, used on plenty of POS keypads. The problem is that these thumb keys aren't vertical, but it might be possible to allow users to pick whether they want two separate keys, or one wider, but stiffer. That might be actually doable, especially thanks to the availability of lighter springs.

I would also like to add unless you like changing your layout to something non standard, do a standard qwerty grid layout.

Chocolate bars aren't staggered and staggered layout sucks anyway. Hell, it's 2014, people.

[jacobolus]

2x keys without stabilizers seriously suck. Anyone with an Ergodox should add stabilizers to the thumb keys, it makes a quite noticeable difference.

[sakai4eva]

Ergodoxer here; hot glued stabs onto the plate for 2x keys.

[Dark Ethereal]

I've made a basic layout image.

The layout I'm using is Colemak, but it probably won't matter. It seems sensible to have the controller move some scan codes around and leave it up to the OS to figure out layout. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the layout, some keys will have to be shifted in funny ways on any layout. On QWERTY this will be the T, Y, B and N keys.



Still to place the nav row and figure out what to do about the numpad operator keys.

Also I've decided to switch the Control and OS keys. This whole layout is all about not moving your hands, so that means it's designed for the ESDF layout for arrow keys, and that's what I'll be taking into consideration for gaming too.
With ESDF, the Win Key sits under the pinky, instead of crouch, so if I switch them that won't be an issue. Also, when your fingers are on the home row, it's easier to press the win key than it is the Ctrl key, but Ctrl is used for way more key combos, hence switching is better.