Topre is Apple; Cherry is Android

[C5Allroad]

Well, I would like to chime in, Jailbreak anyone?
Or root and put a rom on it?
 

[rowdy]

Rowdy uses HHKB on a Mac.

Also Model M on a Mac.

And QFR on a Mac.

And QFS on Windows.

And Ducky on Windows.

[Melvang]

I am Cherry MX, Android here.  I currently have my Das 3 with lubricated blacks with clear springs and DCS caps. 

Couple things that rang out in my head while reading through this thread.  Apple may not bash on Samsung, but they did bash on PC pretty hard for a while.  I have never had a Samsung phone that was worth paying anything for.  Every single one of them fell apart and had total crap for reception and call quality.  I currently have a Motorola Droid Razr Maxx on Verizon, running 4.1.2.  The only thing I wish that was different about my phone is the lack of reception on my side of town because nobody wants to look at a cell phone tower.  Anywhere else, I get great reception aside from one spot on I-380 where my phone switches between two towers.  But that dead zone lasts about 10 seconds at high way speeds.  If I had to buy a new smart phone tomorrow I would probably get either a Motorola Moto X or a Casio GZONE.  The Motorola because last I knew it was the only US made smart phone on the market, and the Casio, because with my job I am pretty tough on my phones.

[jacobolus]

Unused Ergodox, a Model M on the desk, and several in-progress DIY ergo Alps keyboard experiments here. And a dumbphone.

[Kraksx]

Well, I would like to chime in, Jailbreak anyone?
Or root and put a rom on it?
 

Root all day, Cyanogenmod and ElementalX kernel

[iLLucionist]

I completely agree. Just like Apple, it just works, feels, and looks amazing out of the box. Also, IMHO, the simplicity is unmatched. Also, like Apple, they have these little issues you almost never find on other keyboards. Like the sometimes shady spacebar and sometimes misaligned keys. These little irritations you will eventually overcome but you keep asking: why. It is perfect in every way except those minor nuisances. Like the cracks on the white macbook. The display issues of the iMac. Etc.

Unlike Apple, however, you can actually open it up and tear it apart. Whereas Apple tries to apply every form of glue known to mankind, you can actually disassemble the HHKB. Without weird screws.

[davkol]

Well, I would like to chime in, Jailbreak anyone?
Or root and put a rom on it?
 

Root all day, Cyanogenmod and ElementalX kernel

What a joke. I just install `gainroot` on my nokia. No flashing, no exploits, no breaking warranty.

[Kraksx]

Well, I would like to chime in, Jailbreak anyone?
Or root and put a rom on it?
 

Root all day, Cyanogenmod and ElementalX kernel

What a joke. I just install `gainroot` on my nokia. No flashing, no exploits, no breaking warranty.

I have a Nexus 5 so I don't have to deal with that either

[davkol]

...but you still have the awful Android user space.

OTOH even my ancient Maemo MID runs my *Python* apps developed *on desktop today*.

[eth0s]

I prefer Topre and I have a Galaxy S4.   I also have an ipad.  I also have a couple MX keyboards.  Of which I prefer vintage Black switches.  I guess if I could justify it, I would get an apple iphone as well.  Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

[HoffmanMyster]

I prefer Topre and I have a Galaxy S4.   I also have an ipad.  I also have a couple MX keyboards.  Of which I prefer vintage Black switches.  I guess if I could justify it, I would get an apple iphone as well.  Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

I like my iPods because I can hold more than 2,000 songs.  Comes in very handy.

[CPTBadAss]

Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

I like my iPods because I can hold more than 2,000 songs.  Comes in very handy.

My 120GB Zune is a life saver on flights. I don't know how I'd travel without those and my JH5s.

[HoffmanMyster]

Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

I like my iPods because I can hold more than 2,000 songs.  Comes in very handy.

My 120GB Zune is a life saver on flights. I don't know how I'd travel without those and my JH5s.

Yep.  Never understood the whole "I just stream everything" idea.  I have so many times when I don't have internet, that would be so unbelievably frustrating.  But alas, I am not the same as everyone else    , so I'm sure their system works well for them. 

[Quardah]

Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

I like my iPods because I can hold more than 2,000 songs.  Comes in very handy.

My 120GB Zune is a life saver on flights. I don't know how I'd travel without those and my JH5s.

Yep.  Never understood the whole "I just stream everything" idea.  I have so many times when I don't have internet, that would be so unbelievably frustrating.  But alas, I am not the same as everyone else    , so I'm sure their system works well for them. 

Well now-a-day they combine streaming and storage using Itunes Match. What it does is that it shows you every music track you have available on your Apple account and when you select a track, it will put it in cache. The cache is dynamique and its size is the whole remaining free space on your iDevice. When it needs space either to cache in some new tracks or install some apps, it simply shrinks its cache and deletes the less-listened tracks.

That way you can stream everything you have and still have the stuff you most listen to on your phone when offline so it's best of the two worlds, you don't have to change your music library from iTunes.

Also iPods are not out of date c'mon man who doesn't enjoy using an iPod Classic with the tactile circle. One of my friend has one in his car which is fullfilled (160gb of music lol) so when someones tries to select a track they void in the artist list (over 800 artists lol)

[davkol]

I prefer Topre and I have a Galaxy S4.   I also have an ipad.  I also have a couple MX keyboards.  Of which I prefer vintage Black switches.  I guess if I could justify it, I would get an apple iphone as well.  Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

I like my iPods because I can hold more than 2,000 songs.  Comes in very handy.

Any portable player with microSDHC support... a 32GB card can store over 200 hours of audio in 320kb/s MP3.

[C5Allroad]

Well, I would like to chime in, Jailbreak anyone?
Or root and put a rom on it?
 

Root all day, Cyanogenmod and ElementalX kernel

What a joke. I just install `gainroot` on my nokia. No flashing, no exploits, no breaking warranty.

I have a Nexus 5 so I don't have to deal with that either

We're friends now.
I have a N5 on beanstalk rom lol.

[Kraksx]

Well, I would like to chime in, Jailbreak anyone?
Or root and put a rom on it?
 

Root all day, Cyanogenmod and ElementalX kernel

What a joke. I just install `gainroot` on my nokia. No flashing, no exploits, no breaking warranty.

I have a Nexus 5 so I don't have to deal with that either

We're friends now.
I have a N5 on beanstalk rom lol.

BROTHER

[HoffmanMyster]

Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

I like my iPods because I can hold more than 2,000 songs.  Comes in very handy.

My 120GB Zune is a life saver on flights. I don't know how I'd travel without those and my JH5s.

Yep.  Never understood the whole "I just stream everything" idea.  I have so many times when I don't have internet, that would be so unbelievably frustrating.  But alas, I am not the same as everyone else    , so I'm sure their system works well for them. 

Well now-a-day they combine streaming and storage using Itunes Match. What it does is that it shows you every music track you have available on your Apple account and when you select a track, it will put it in cache. The cache is dynamique and its size is the whole remaining free space on your iDevice. When it needs space either to cache in some new tracks or install some apps, it simply shrinks its cache and deletes the less-listened tracks.

That way you can stream everything you have and still have the stuff you most listen to on your phone when offline so it's best of the two worlds, you don't have to change your music library from iTunes.

Also iPods are not out of date c'mon man who doesn't enjoy using an iPod Classic with the tactile circle. One of my friend has one in his car which is fullfilled (160gb of music lol) so when someones tries to select a track they void in the artist list (over 800 artists lol)

That is actually very neat, and I didn't know that.  Thanks!    I'm still not entirely convinced, but that is good information to know. 

I prefer Topre and I have a Galaxy S4.   I also have an ipad.  I also have a couple MX keyboards.  Of which I prefer vintage Black switches.  I guess if I could justify it, I would get an apple iphone as well.  Oh yeah, and for long flights, I still like to use my ipod.  Even though nobody uses an ipod anymore, I prefer the battery life, and the fact that I don't have to use my phone to listen to music.

I like my iPods because I can hold more than 2,000 songs.  Comes in very handy.

Any portable player with microSDHC support... a 32GB card can store over 200 hours of audio in 320kb/s MP3.

That was an entirely arbitrary number of songs and was slightly exaggerative.     I have over 120 GB (being selective with my choices) on my iPod, so that solution would still not be ideal for me (yes, I'm an exception).

[davkol]

SDXC ~_^

[microsoft windows]

Topre isn't Apple. Apple is crap. They make the worst quality and worst-designed computer input devices available on the market. Topre, on the other hand, is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

[Quardah]

Topre isn't Apple. Apple is crap. They make the worst quality and worst-designed computer input devices available on the market. Topre, on the other hand, is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

WELL AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT ONLY A SOFTWARE COMPANY LIKE MICROSOFT >

Silly meany >:[

[daerid]

Which phone in particular did you try? Just curious.

Many different ones.

[microsoft windows]

Topre isn't Apple. Apple is crap. They make the worst quality and worst-designed computer input devices available on the market. Topre, on the other hand, is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

WELL AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT ONLY A SOFTWARE COMPANY LIKE MICROSOFT >

Silly meany >:[

Well at least Microsoft doesn't sell crappy keyboards.

[davkol]

Topre isn't Apple. Apple is crap. They make the worst quality and worst-designed computer input devices available on the market. Topre, on the other hand, is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

WELL AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT ONLY A SOFTWARE COMPANY LIKE MICROSOFT >

Silly meany >:[

Well at least Microsoft doesn't sell crappy keyboards.

They did, last time I checked.

[johndavis33]

Topre isn't Apple. Apple is crap. They make the worst quality and worst-designed computer input devices available on the market. Topre, on the other hand, is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

WELL AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT ONLY A SOFTWARE COMPANY LIKE MICROSOFT >

Silly meany >:[

Well at least Microsoft doesn't sell crappy keyboards.

They did, last time I checked.

Come on, even the ****ty surface keyboard is better than the apple aluminum one

[davkol]

Apple Aluminium isn't ergonomic at all IMHO, but at least it's decently made, unlike the horrible MS Ergo 4k (or the previous "MultiMedia" generation), doesn't have awful "multimedia" buttons instead of F-keys and isn't a piece of cheap creaking plastic.

[Doyniish]

Topre isn't Apple. Apple is crap. They make the worst quality and worst-designed computer input devices available on the market. Topre, on the other hand, is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

WELL AT LEAST THEY ARE NOT ONLY A SOFTWARE COMPANY LIKE MICROSOFT >

Silly meany >:[

Well at least Microsoft doesn't sell crappy keyboards.

They did, last time I checked.

Come on, even the ****ty surface keyboard is better than the apple aluminum one

Is it really that bad? It might just be me, but I can type faster than sh** on those.

[davkol]

I type much faster on pretty much any okayish scissor switch keyboard, but it usually makes my hands hurt. Maybe it's mostly because of the layout though, because I'm fine on TypeMatrix 2030.

[admiralvorian]

uh yeah nope. I replaced the controller in my HHKB and am looking at custom domes and plungers, currently building a cherry-based tenkey and a phantom in the future. I use an Android phone, iOS phone, iOS tablet, Windows computer and OS X computer....

[Justintoxicated]

Having said that, I find Android to be a low quality product that I do not enjoy using at all. If you do, more power to ya.

Funny cause I was thinking the same thing about iphones, vs my HTC ONE...

[Oobly]

...
Well at least Microsoft doesn't sell crappy keyboards.

Sidewinder X6 cough, cough.... 2KRO... horrible feeling rubber domes.. Expensive junk. I know, I was enough of a sucker to actually buy one.

[Oobly]

Cherry MX and Android user here. ErgoClears and Galaxy Note 2 with custom ROM.

I would say they match pretty well, both are the most modifiable and hands-on DIY type of system. MX can be modded to get them to feel and respond just how you want. Same with an Android device, pick and choose the ROM that suits you best, modify it to make suit you prefectly. My battery lasts 4 days on average. Phone is overclocked and undervolted, tweaked to perfection.

Topre and iThingy you buy and use and just have to accept the way they are, warts and all (although with Topre you can at least dental band mod and swap domes). Both expensive and inflexible. You don't like some aspect of the system... tough. Don't like the way your new 300$ rubber dome feels... tough.  <hides behind wall of arrogant superiority +2 and feigned indifference +1>

[davkol]

The Android's Java user space... certainly configurable as hell!

[Quardah]

Having said that, I find Android to be a low quality product that I do not enjoy using at all. If you do, more power to ya.

Funny cause I was thinking the same thing about iphones, vs my HTC ONE...

Android is an operating system.

iPhones and HTC Ones are Smartphones.

Totally different things, he's stating he does not enjoy the operating system on the devices. Not that the device itself is cheap.

Also you can thank Apple for pushing the metal-phone era. Beforehand it was cheap plastic, and they had to adapt. Not saying HTC is bad (I have to say, maybe the best hardware in android devices available) but gotta defenetly give ceasar his laurel.

[ideus]

I wonder why this thread is still in the keyboards board, while it seems to fit better in out of topic.

[davkol]

Also you can thank Apple for pushing the metal-phone era. Beforehand it was cheap plastic, and they had to adapt.

wat.

My dumb pre-iphone motorola is metal. Nokia made some metal phones, at least in the high end. Remember Ericsson phones that could be used as hammers?

I'm suspicious it was Apple (or maybe Motorola), who started the race towards the thinnest, least comfortable shape though. Gimme back the Nokia 6600 "egg"...

[Oobly]

....
Also you can thank Apple for pushing the metal-phone era. Beforehand it was cheap plastic, and they had to adapt. Not saying HTC is bad (I have to say, maybe the best hardware in android devices available) but gotta defenetly give ceasar his laurel.

Well... not really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_8850

Then the 8890, 8910 and 8800.

Before that a lot of Ericssons had metal frames (the GH388 comes to mind immediately because I owned one and the T28 was an epically small and awesome example, brother owned one of those), but I think the Nokias were the first with metal covers / casing. And I don't want metal and glass on the outside of my phone, thanks, plastic handles shock way better. A metal frame on the inside, though, yes please.

EDIT- Ah, beaten to the punch by Davkol

[Quardah]

Also you can thank Apple for pushing the metal-phone era. Beforehand it was cheap plastic, and they had to adapt.

wat.

My dumb pre-iphone motorola is metal. Nokia made some metal phones, at least in the high end. Remember Ericsson phones that could be used as hammers?

Those were not smartphones. I had a vivaz pro, couldn't hold a year of usage.

What smartphone do we remember before an iPhone? None. Why? Because when it came out in 2007, it imposed a standard amongs smartphone. Most cellphones 2007-2010 were plastic-made and metal ones were incredibly rare. Then, until the fourth generation (iPhone 4) which was made out of metal and glass instead of plastic, most followed the trend (iirc only Samsung still produces plastic flagships).

I understand the Apple Rant-Hate club, i've been at there once too, but you gotta agree if smartphones are what they are to this day, it's because of Apple. I've been studying IT in university and defenetly there is nothing to hate about Apple when you check the big picture.

Like people saying the price is too high. There's a closed source OS in there gotta pay your lisence. There's store support out there gotta pay for it as well, you damn know when you have an issue with an Android phone you gotta send it over the globe and wait weeks or months before you get an answer or a replacement. When it comes to Apple you call them, if you're under warranty you get schedueled to an Apple store the morning after which is litterally a 15 minutes drive away from your place, you're switched with a new one no question asked.

From an IT point of view this is flawless. Easiest ways for the end users is the way to go.

Test it yourself get an iPhone and use it responsably, it'll never fail. I owned my iPhone 5 since release date, been on iOS 6 and 7 and currently running 8 beta, never failing.

If you learn how to outplay Apple corporate managment you can get free stuff like free 40$ cables or headphones even a free battery replacement 3 days before warranty ends. Same for their laptops just change them before warranty ends, no question asked, 2 laptops for the price of 1.5 plus it can runs all OS at the same time using Parallels.

What smartphones doesn't come with stupid preinstalled carrier apps and themes (EDIT : and preset bookmarks and preset homepage)? iPhones.
What smartphones never had a god damn carrier tag up front? iPhones.

They are the only ones holding versus the carrier douchebags.

And no i'm not a stupid hipster.
And no i'm not a fanboy.
And no i do not work for Apple.
And no i do not own all-apple devices.

I just give back to ceasar his laurel against all authorities.

No offence of course, we're just talking.

....
Also you can thank Apple for pushing the metal-phone era. Beforehand it was cheap plastic, and they had to adapt. Not saying HTC is bad (I have to say, maybe the best hardware in android devices available) but gotta defenetly give ceasar his laurel.

Well... not really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_8850

Then the 8890, 8910 and 8800.

Before that a lot of Ericssons had metal frames (the GH388 comes to mind immediately because I owned one and the T28 was an epically small and awesome example, brother owned one of those), but I think the Nokias were the first with metal covers / casing. And I don't want metal and glass on the outside of my phone, thanks, plastic handles shock way better. A metal frame on the inside, though, yes please.

EDIT- Ah, beaten to the punch by Davkol

But those are not smartphones!

Totally different things! It's litterally a pocket computer versus a phone! Of course the phone will be made out of metal, it was not designed for the consumerist market but the professional one.

[davkol]

snip

Half of your post is based on your local market and the other half is based on your/Apple's very own definition of smartphone.

[Quardah]

snip

Half of your post is based on your local market and the other half is based on your/Apple's very own definition of smartphone.

Care to elaborate your very own definition of a smartphone then?

Cause seriously what else could it be than this definition : A smartphone (or smart phone) is a mobile phone with more advanced computing capability and connectivity than basic feature phones. (Straight from Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone)

Basicly it's a pocket computer just like i stated in my post.

And local market? What do you mean ._.?

[HoffmanMyster]

Apple store the morning after which is litterally a 15 minutes drive away from your place

lol

What smartphones doesn't come with stupid preinstalled carrier apps and themes (EDIT : and preset bookmarks and preset homepage)? iPhones.

And what smartphone doesn't allow you to change the default browser?  iPhone.

And what smartphone took longer than any other UI to implement a simple and easy to access brightness control, among other features?  iPhone.
(personal gripe)

I don't hate iPhones, I just think your post is very biased and subjective.  You can't just decide that something isn't a smartphone, to fit your argument.  iPhone was not the first smartphone, nor the first successful smartphone.

[Quardah]

Apple store the morning after which is litterally a 15 minutes drive away from your place

lol

What smartphones doesn't come with stupid preinstalled carrier apps and themes (EDIT : and preset bookmarks and preset homepage)? iPhones.

And what smartphone doesn't allow you to change the default browser?  iPhone.

And what smartphone took longer than any other UI to implement a simple and easy to access brightness control, among other features?  iPhone.
(personal gripe)

I don't hate iPhones, I just think your post is very biased and subjective.  You can't just decide that something isn't a smartphone, to fit your argument.  iPhone was not the first smartphone, nor the first successful smartphone.

Ok it might not be 15 minutes away but you get the point.

I know for Safari but there's a very basic reason to this, is that they are pushing compatiblity within their devices and it's the same safari software both on iDevices and OsX computers. I know it kinda sucks on an iPhone but you can still get the other browsers.

Anyway i'd rather have some Apple crap than some carrier crap. Carriers are a cancer, litterally. Telecom systems should be public. (Major props to René Levèsque failed nationalising  telecommunication project, true quebecers will know)

Yet yes Apple also implements newer functionnalities afterwards for they really make sure the implementation is flawless on newer systems they release. Don't get me wrong, Control center came before anything on the HP Touchpad with webOS. When Android fanboys are yelling that Apple stole that feature from Android, they are litterally wrong. When HP killed WebOS they released the patents.

I do not decide what's a smartphone or not, the line is well drawn; a smartphone has high processing capabilities. And don't get me wrong also, i know there were some smartphones before. But do we remember them? No we don't. In the minds of those who don't know much on the subject, the iPhone was the first memorable one. I remember some other nice smartphones like the HTC dream but it was simply too early and underdevelopped for a consumerist-market success !

Don't get me wrong i dispise Apple dead-cultist fanboys as well but having studied the subject a whole class there's a lot more in the backend that Apple did, and their philosophy fits better on the smartphones than on their computers imo.

Also keep an eye open for their upcomming business solutions, that'll be big they matched up with IBM for this (aka the only two real OGs that has always been on the computer scene since the very early beginning are teaming up for this. Grab a popcorn and watch the show if you like IT related stuff.)

I seem biased but please note i tried it all and been studying these things, came out i picked a side in the end. You're a smart man afaik, compare the highs versus the lows and judge for yourself! We might have different opinion but the Apple rant is getting old imo. Hell, we're on a technology forum might as well speak IT sometimes, it doesn't hurt.

NOW ALL OF YOU YELL AT ME AND POST MILLIONS OF STUFF I'M GOING INTO MEETING I WANT TO READ STUFF WHEN I COME BACK

[davkol]

Care to elaborate your very own definition of a smartphone then?

A phone with seamless integration of user-installed software (as opposed to J2ME sandbox).

Cause seriously what else could it be than this definition : A smartphone (or smart phone) is a mobile phone with more advanced computing capability and connectivity than basic feature phones. (Straight from Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone)

Basicly it's a pocket computer just like i stated in my post.

The greatest problem is that modern so-called smartphones cease to be mobile or phones. More like pocket computers with connectivity through mobile networks indeed. I'm not too sure about the "smart" (computing) part either though, because of stuff like DRM.

And local market? What do you mean ._.?

I've never had a phone provided by any carrier in the last 13 years. I've never really dealed with any phone manufacturer either, because vendors take care of warranty here. How come? I'm located in Europe.

And don't get me wrong also, i know there were some smartphones before. But do we remember them? No we don't.

Wrong. I have fond memories of SE's UIQ and Nokia 6600. I know people, who still use Nokia communicators (like 9300). For example, the PIM capabilities of PalmOS are still basically unmatched. And so on and so on.

defenetly there is nothing to hate about Apple when you check the big picture.

You mean like legal wars, proprietary connectors, hardware that's difficult/impossible to disassemble,...

Apple is pretty good at making money. That's it.

[Quardah]

Care to elaborate your very own definition of a smartphone then?

A phone with seamless integration of user-installed software (as opposed to J2ME sandbox).

Well that's a pretty pointy definition. It doesn't englobe most of the items actually labelled as smartphones :/?

Cause seriously what else could it be than this definition : A smartphone (or smart phone) is a mobile phone with more advanced computing capability and connectivity than basic feature phones. (Straight from Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone)

Basicly it's a pocket computer just like i stated in my post.

The greatest problem is that modern so-called smartphones cease to be mobile or phones. More like pocket computers with connectivity through mobile networks indeed. I'm not too sure about the "smart" (computing) part either though, because of stuff like DRM.

How does it cease to be mobile? I don't get this one ._.?

And how does it cease to be a phone? It's litterally a phone D:?

On the DRM point, it's totally different. Since Apple sells their devices as an integral package, they limit the installation of application in order to maintain a closed, monitored environment. That way a users rom never really gets corrupted and their compatibility is really hard to match. If you wanna screw up an iPhone you can, just Jailbreak it. But it treathens your Phone reliability, which is a mandatory point on a phone, imo.

You can see it the bad way or the good way. I've been using iDevices for about 2 years now and i don't think i've been any limited, therefor i just like to think it's an additional layer of security versus a DRM.

And lol Android Cross-OS viruses. Just plain lololol.

Check the Windows virus library... don't you think it was about time to evolve, when creating a completly new operating system, to make sure it couldn't get any viruses if used using recommended settings? I mean we're speaking 2014 here... software security is mandatory now a day!

And local market? What do you mean ._.?

I've never had a phone provided by any carrier in the last 13 years. I've never really dealed with any phone manufacturer either, because vendors take care of warranty here. How come? I'm located in Europe.

Yea i've heard about that, Europe doesn't suck like the Americas speaking of carriers.

And don't get me wrong also, i know there were some smartphones before. But do we remember them? No we don't.

Wrong. I have fond memories of SE's UIQ and Nokia 6600. I know people, who still use Nokia communicators (like 9300). For example, the PIM capabilities of PalmOS are still basically unmatched. And so on and so on.

Yes you know stuff, i agree, but in the mindset of people, the "hive-mind", what smartphone defines the smartphone? the first generation iPhone. I understand someone like you or i may think different (lolseewhatididthere) but in general people believes the iPhone is the first one. How many people call any smartphone an iPhone? How many people call any tablet an iPad? Noobs be noobs, but noobs be generating profits.

defenetly there is nothing to hate about Apple when you check the big picture.

You mean like legal wars, proprietary connectors, hardware that's difficult/impossible to disassemble,...

Well legal wars is not really my field but intellectual property is properly defined and they have the right to go in court and spend un unlimited ammound of money into lawyers and stuff to get their point done.

They are all doing it anyway. Microsoft first, their whole empire is based on legal fckery (like the IBM-Dos to MS-Dos lol)

Proprietary connectors indeed are not really nice but it makes the device able to interact more with the periphrial device connected to it. Lightning cable is nice also, it fits both ways. That's kinda nice, it's not all bad.

And yeah hard to disassemble hardware is part of their philosophy; they sell computers like a dishwashers and stuff. It's not made for enthousiasts that want to custom their things. It's an integral package, only the sim card is removable.

Apple is pretty good at making money. That's it.

Well indeed but that's all what companies are made for, right? If they are good at making money it means they deliver somehow. I am not a fan of the capitalist system itself but the fundaments of it cannot be ommited; if they are the richest company in the world, it's because they somehow delivered enough so the comsumers made them the richest company in the world.

Don't you agree on this?

[digi]

I buy Apple products and physically break them so no one else can buy them. I prefer Cherry MX switches, hope this helps.

[davkol]

Yes you know stuff, i agree, but in the mindset of people, the "hive-mind", what smartphone defines the smartphone? the first generation iPhone. I understand someone like you or i may think different (lolseewhatididthere) but in general people believes the iPhone is the first one. How many people call any smartphone an iPhone? How many people call any tablet an iPad? Noobs be noobs, but noobs be generating profits.

Sounds like 'murrican market again. Unfortunately, it's spreading like plague.

Apple is pretty good at making money. That's it.

Well indeed but that's all what companies are made for, right? If they are good at making money it means they deliver somehow. I am not a fan of the capitalist system itself but the fundaments of it cannot be ommited; if they are the richest company in the world, it's because they somehow delivered enough so the comsumers made them the richest company in the world.

Don't you agree on this?

Let's talk about Razer. I consider Razer the Apple of gaming hardware or mechanical keyboards in many ways.

...or let's talk about ethics. In other words, if the system allows a company to do stuff, it doesn't mean they have to exploit it. The same thing about locked-in "ecosystem" or DRM, because of the war on general-purpose computing. Surveillance is another interesting topic (just spotted this).

The problem is that these companies generate profit for their stakeholders and that's it nowadays... well, except politics in some cases (hello, Microsoft, Monsanto... or oil industry). Companies in general? For example, ask at a local farm.

[jacobolus]

Let's talk about Razer. I consider Razer the Apple of gaming hardware or mechanical keyboards in many ways.

Oh come on. Apple has spent 30 years continuously innovating, staying at the cutting edge of hardware and software. They employ thousands of engineers and spend billions of dollars on research and development, and whether you like them or not they drive much of the change in consumer-facing tech. Razer by contrast makes basically the same thing as a bunch of other companies, with average-to-below-average build quality using almost entirely off-the-shelf parts.

I don’t think there’s really any particularly Apple-like company in the computer peripherals game. Logitech, Microsoft, all the keyboard OEMs, etc... are all very conservative companies at heart, making very tiny incremental changes, but not really driving any kind of fundamental change (or occasionally buying out a startup company who makes a new product). Which is too bad, because there’s a lot of room for a team of creative engineers to push new and interesting user input devices to market.

DIYers on geekhack have done more to push user input devices forward in the last 3-4 years than all the peripheral companies combined.

[davkol]

Innovating? There was a thread about their "innovation", let me find it...

[Quardah]

Yes, it's sadly spreading like a plague, i agree, but that's what made the computer world what it is now a day. The issue is that people don't work if there's no money involved for their pockets. That also applies for enterprises internally; try to get something done by another department. They don't give a sh1t.

If coding wouldn't generate money then we would have litterally no reliable software. Software, yes. Reliable? No! Because when you pay you have to right to whine and yell about stuff being done improperly, therefore in the end you get better results cause they take actions. That applies for any software enterprise.

Apple cannot be held responsible for NSA actions; every major technology firm was required to accept the PRISM program and give them a backdoor. Google, Microsoft, RSA cryptographics... all of them (They are all american, they have to comply to government tyrany requests), and they even sent a public message in the newspaper stating they are against mass-surveillance, but they cannot do anything against it.

They'll spy anything so why bother. If they want to see my **** i guess they could even if i never took a picture of it. Anyway what do i have to hide? I'm a silly 21 y/o engineering student that has little to no money, i don't do illegal stuff and i pay my bills and ****. I don't really care if some fuking lowlife american NSA employee wants to see my records or my facebook profil picture; he has nothing to gain from me. He'll never impact my life, he's just a fatass fake-ass hacker with so much ressources he could do anything else but would rather work on a low-end morally-wrong firm.

[jacobolus]

Innovating? There was a thread about their "innovation", let me find it...

That thread was 90% bull****. Don’t bother.