Custom 42% for Dvorak

[Joey Quinn]

.

[cribbit]

Personally, http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2e593596fba6092a28f90dd6b8d9a028 is my goal custom made layout. Spacebar is a 2-stem one so that you can move the spacebar to other areas if you need to. Full programmable and customizeable for any layout/moving spacebar. Lots of spare macro/fn keys make up for the tiny size. Hardest part for me will be physically making the controller so that I can program it.

[Joey Quinn]

Personally, http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2e593596fba6092a28f90dd6b8d9a028 is my goal custom made layout. Spacebar is a 2-stem one so that you can move the spacebar to other areas if you need to. Full programmable and customizeable for any layout/moving spacebar. Lots of spare macro/fn keys make up for the tiny size. Hardest part for me will be physically making the controller so that I can program it.

We copied the controller from the GH60

[jdcarpe]

I'll post pictures of the first pcb, the first layout, and concept pictures, plus go over our mistakes if anyone is interested!

Interested!

[adventurepoop]

my 43% layout apparently works with dvorak. http://ne0.cc/laygenV2/#2i6YQ

http://ne0.cc/laygenV2/#MH9qx

[Joey Quinn]

The initial PCB design was pretty easy once we followed a tutorial and experimented a bit. Here is our KiCad drawing
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

We ordered the PCBs from osh park because purple, I highly recommend them the PCB was high quality and they delivered in almost exactly the two weeks they predicted also their website is really easy to use.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]

I was so stoked when it arrived so i decided to put caps on bare switches and just see how everything lined up.  MFW I see the gap between the two keys in the bottom row [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] . Everything else was fine but we messed up the gap you are most likely to look at. After a short talk with my friend we decided to just use the board as a prototype and accept the loss. So I popped the switches out and begin to solder smds but I quickly noticed two more mistakes first we flipped the slikscreen so our names were mirrored and on top of that the pads we used for our smds were the exact width of the smd meaning they were almost impossible to hand solder. Overall the PCB was one giant add for measure twice cut once. One final hint for anyone who wants to make a keyboard base your units off of .75in not 19.05mm it will save you a lot of time and weird numbers. 

[jdcarpe]

Things almost never work out 100% on your first draft. That's a really nice looking keyboard! Great job, you guys. Please post updates as you progress. My design was an exercise in minimalism, but I know there are some who really need a little extra for that certain layout (Dvorak, Colemak).

[Joey Quinn]

Next major update should come in two ish weeks when the new switch plate and revised pcb come. Also I've wanted to ask you a question how long is the JD40 with it's case?

[jdcarpe]

Next major update should come in two ish weeks when the new switch plate and revised pcb come. Also I've wanted to ask you a question how long is the JD40 with it's case?

The case I designed is 9.75 inches long.

[Joey Quinn]

Personally, http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2e593596fba6092a28f90dd6b8d9a028 is my goal custom made layout. Spacebar is a 2-stem one so that you can move the spacebar to other areas if you need to. Full programmable and customizeable for any layout/moving spacebar. Lots of spare macro/fn keys make up for the tiny size. Hardest part for me will be physically making the controller so that I can program it.

Does such 2u key exist or would it be custom? Also thats a pretty sick idea, I like all the extra buttons on the bottom row.

[Joey Quinn]

my 43% layout apparently works with dvorak. http://ne0.cc/laygenV2/#2i6YQ

http://ne0.cc/laygenV2/#MH9qx

Thats really similar to mine, just has a different bottom row.

[daschwa]

Friend checking in. Here is our revB layout.

[cribbit]

Personally, http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2e593596fba6092a28f90dd6b8d9a028 is my goal custom made layout. Spacebar is a 2-stem one so that you can move the spacebar to other areas if you need to. Full programmable and customizeable for any layout/moving spacebar. Lots of spare macro/fn keys make up for the tiny size. Hardest part for me will be physically making the controller so that I can program it.

Does such 2u key exist or would it be custom? Also thats a pretty sick idea, I like all the extra buttons on the bottom row.

Thanks! The key exists but is rare. Not too hard to get custom ordered, though it would cost $5 for just a single non-cosmetic key.

How much did that sort of PCB cost you? That's one thing I'm still leery on, how exactly to get all the electrical stuff done so I can get to the programming stuff.

[berserkfan]

you guys are in luck; I happened to be reading this because I'm looking for ideas about keyboard controllers.

I do have a bunch of 2-key wide or 2-key high keys from my Tipros. These are from a matrix layout, so they are exactly standard width between keys (I've tried).

It'll cost me $1.10 to post anywhere in the world. I can send 4 lettered relegendables or 2 blank relegendables for the price of a $2 geekhack donation (don't pay me; ask the mods how to donate).

[cribbit]

you guys are in luck; I happened to be reading this because I'm looking for ideas about keyboard controllers.

I do have a bunch of 2-key wide or 2-key high keys from my Tipros. These are from a matrix layout, so they are exactly standard width between keys (I've tried).

It'll cost me $1.10 to post anywhere in the world. I can send 4 lettered relegendables or 2 blank relegendables for the price of a $2 geekhack donation (don't pay me; ask the mods how to donate).

You're a saint.

[Joey Quinn]

Personally, http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2e593596fba6092a28f90dd6b8d9a028 is my goal custom made layout. Spacebar is a 2-stem one so that you can move the spacebar to other areas if you need to. Full programmable and customizeable for any layout/moving spacebar. Lots of spare macro/fn keys make up for the tiny size. Hardest part for me will be physically making the controller so that I can program it.

Does such 2u key exist or would it be custom? Also thats a pretty sick idea, I like all the extra buttons on the bottom row.

Thanks! The key exists but is rare. Not too hard to get custom ordered, though it would cost $5 for just a single non-cosmetic key.

How much did that sort of PCB cost you? That's one thing I'm still leery on, how exactly to get all the electrical stuff done so I can get to the programming stuff.

It was $140 for three from Osh Park, Advanced circuits would have been $120 for four

[Joey Quinn]

Update time!!!

Placed the final order today!

The order was for the switch and base plates for the boards, we are getting them from a company called Chicago metal fabricators. Total cost for three sets was $262.20. When I arrive home later this week I'll post pictures of all the components and start assembly! 

[dorkvader]

Update time!!!

Placed the final order today!

The order was for the switch and base plates for the boards, we are getting them from a company called Chicago metal fabricators. Total cost for three sets was $262.20. When I arrive home later this week I'll post pictures of all the components and start assembly! 

So excited!

Steel or aluminium? Laser or water cut plates?

[Gamingnow]

Update time!!!

Placed the final order today!

The order was for the switch and base plates for the boards, we are getting them from a company called Chicago metal fabricators. Total cost for three sets was $262.20. When I arrive home later this week I'll post pictures of all the components and start assembly! 

What switches are you planning on using?

[JackMills]

This looks very nice, I had a similar thought after trying to fit a colemak layout to the JD40. Where you guys are already making it happen, I am still in the dreaming fase.
How was it using the KiCad, I have no experience using ECAD-software, it`s holding me back of actually designing my board.

[dorkvader]

I'm also really digging the optional side-exit of the USB port. This is one of my favourite designs for a small keyboard.

[Joey Quinn]

Update time!!!

Placed the final order today!

The order was for the switch and base plates for the boards, we are getting them from a company called Chicago metal fabricators. Total cost for three sets was $262.20. When I arrive home later this week I'll post pictures of all the components and start assembly! 

So excited!

Steel or aluminium? Laser or water cut plates?

Laser cut stainless steel, I planned on leaving it unfinished but I may decide to paint it once I get the plates.

I'm also really digging the optional side-exit of the USB port. This is one of my favourite designs for a small keyboard.

My friends and I all use Mac Book Pros so we wanted easy usb runs

[Joey Quinn]

What switches are you planning on using?

The plan is to use whites but I have ergo clears (favorite switch) set aside if I don't like them. The plate has cutouts for stem swapping so experimentation will probably happen! I may try the jail house mod on the whites

[Joey Quinn]

This looks very nice, I had a similar thought after trying to fit a colemak layout to the JD40. Where you guys are already making it happen, I am still in the dreaming fase.
How was it using the KiCad, I have no experience using ECAD-software, it`s holding me back of actually designing my board.

It was really easy to learn, we used a short tutorial then just figured out the rest on the fly.

this is it, hope it helps!

[abjr]

One final hint for anyone who wants to make a keyboard base your units off of .75in not 19.05mm it will save you a lot of time and weird numbers.

Any issue with just basing your keyboard units on 19mm?

[Joey Quinn]

One final hint for anyone who wants to make a keyboard base your units off of .75in not 19.05mm it will save you a lot of time and weird numbers.

Any issue with just basing your keyboard units on 19mm?

For one unit keys that should work but you may encounter issues with longer keys like a 6.25 or 7u space. I'd still say to just use .75in and make your life easier, also all the data that cherry provides on their switches is in inches.

[Joey Quinn]

Updated Op!

[AKmalamute]

Updated Op!

Color me impressed!

So, when you attach the atmega, do you solder one wire at a time, or lay down a bunch of solder paste and bring out the heat gun? Just looking at that thing makes me cringe, and I stopped worrying about the diodes I put on the ergodox awhile ago ... Only one pin to worry about there, though.

[Joey Quinn]

Updated Op!

Color me impressed!

So, when you attach the atmega, do you solder one wire at a time, or lay down a bunch of solder paste and bring out the heat gun? Just looking at that thing makes me cringe, and I stopped worrying about the diodes I put on the ergodox awhile ago ... Only one pin to worry about there, though.

I soldered the whole row all at once and used extra flux to move the solder to where I wanted it.

[Auryon]

nice board looks great!

[HoffmanMyster]

I caught a brief glimpse of this in the development phase, and now that it's come together I'm really liking it! Great project and nice work.

[dorkvader]

That's excellent!

Where's "z" ? Do you share it with up arrow?

Overall a great layout for a 42% keyboard. Good choice on Dvorak as well.

[Joey Quinn]

That's excellent!

Where's "z" ? Do you share it with up arrow?

Overall a great layout for a 42% keyboard. Good choice on Dvorak as well.

Thanks, I've been debating whether I should do full time arrows and fn z or do the opposite. Right now my plan is to try it both ways.

[nomaded]

That looks very nice. I love that you split the single space bar to 2 separate ones, so you can program the 2 independently.

As for the 'z' vs up arrow, I would suggest using the 4 bottom right keys for the arrows, vi-style, instead of the inverted-T.

I might even assign the Fn/layer toggle to one of the "space" bar keys, that way you can hold the Fn/layer toggle with a thumb and have easy access to the rest of the keyboard. In this manner, you could hold the Fn/layer toggle with your left thumb, and shift your hand down to the bottom right, and still have the inverted-T for your arrows.

[dorkvader]

As for the 'z' vs up arrow, I would suggest using the 4 bottom right keys for the arrows, vi-style, instead of the inverted-T.

one potential issue with this is that the leftmost of those four keys (labelled control) is larger than the other three.

changing one of the thumbkeys to be fn layer toggle is a great idea if you plan to use funtion-area things pretty frequently compared with using it as (for example) backspace.

[Joey Quinn]

As for the 'z' vs up arrow, I would suggest using the 4 bottom right keys for the arrows, vi-style, instead of the inverted-T.

one potential issue with this is that the leftmost of those four keys (labelled control) is larger than the other three.

changing one of the thumbkeys to be fn layer toggle is a great idea if you plan to use funtion-area things pretty frequently compared with using it as (for example) backspace.

I suppose the caps are confusing, the 1.25u key to the left of the arrows will be a fn, I'll be using the left space key as a backspace.

[jacobolus]

I suggest:


Slightly wider (more like “45%” maybe?), but I think it’s easier to make a layout similar to standard keyboards on this version.

Also, dedicated arrow keys are super overrated.

[Joey Quinn]

I suggest:

Show Image

Slightly wider (more like “45%” maybe?), but I think it’s easier to make a layout similar to standard keyboards on this version.

Also, dedicated arrow keys are super overrated. ;)

May work for you but I never use the right ctrl or alt so I thought why not arrows,  I may end up using them as shift keys for function layers. Also your layout isn't dvorak compatible and the two space keys are 3.125u which don't exist and if they do would be hard to find.   

Edit: The spaces are 3u I thought the left most key was 1.5u

[dorkvader]

Also your layout isn't dvorak compatible

Technically no 40% is qwerty compatible and no 45% is dvorak compatible.

It's a column wider than a "normal" 40% so you can get the "s" on the homerow. I see no reason not to move the - to the function layer: that's half the point of dvroak. and his proposed layout has the same "z issue" as yours, where that one key can be used as "z" or right shift or a modifier or whatever.


I do like dedicated arrows, since I don't use the right modifiers either. It's one reason my pure gets used more than my poker 2.

[AKmalamute]

bumping for curiosity. Any changes / revisions? I actually got excited enough to look into how much it would probably take to have a small GB ... PCBwing wasn't useful until about 40 copies were made ... seedstudio seems to be able to make them for $14+ / each at five, or $8.50 if nine other folks wanted one ... just making a bunch of guesses about the requirements of the thing, and also that's before so much as buying the atmega32u4 let alone soldering the thing on.

Someday I want to build one with no daughterboard ... maybe one like this will be it?

So, would you be willing to share your kicad files?

[dorkvader]

bumping for curiosity. Any changes / revisions? I actually got excited enough to look into how much it would probably take to have a small GB ... PCBwing wasn't useful until about 40 copies were made ... seedstudio seems to be able to make them for $14+ / each at five, or $8.50 if nine other folks wanted one ... just making a bunch of guesses about the requirements of the thing, and also that's before so much as buying the atmega32u4 let alone soldering the thing on.

Someday I want to build one with no daughterboard ... maybe one like this will be it?

So, would you be willing to share your kicad files?

dems some good pricing. I'd be down for 1 or 2 if someone tells me how to program it once I solder the blank chip to it. Would your SS plate place be willing to make up a small run of plates?

[AKmalamute]

dems some good pricing. I'd be down for 1 or 2 if someone tells me how to program it once I solder the blank chip to it. Would your SS plate place be willing to make up a small run of plates?

I'm sure they would. I was considering an extended design with the edges bent back, then under, for a complete "case" like I think I've seen on some Korean customs. Sixteen gauge aluminum? Should be doable if there's ten in the group; I'm estimating less than $20 per plate after bending but that's pulled from you-know-where.

I need to talk to them anyway so next chance I get to go up there I'll bring this job up; probably lump it in with round three of Ergodox-in-Metal.

[dorkvader]

See if you can get stainless steel, I think aluminium may be too light for a 40%. Such a case was done by DOX, then by samwisekoi, then by GON, and now by Massdrop's upcoming KB projects. I think it's a great case design.

You have to make sure the bend is far enough back from the holes to prevent the weak switch holes from bending instead of the bend line. Another option is to cut holes in the bend line, etc.

[adventurepoop]

I would be down for a small GB if cheap enough.

[Joey Quinn]

Here's the deal with this board. From the beginning we planned to make it open source and maybe do a group buy deal however as it currently stands the board is unprogrammed and thus untested. I'd love to be able to just program the board myself and finish the project but I know absolutely nothing about any coding language. I'm simply waiting on a friend to figure it out and as it stands he could take a while. If anyone knows about programming atmega32u4s please let me know because it will really speed this up. Once the board is working the files for it will be released and I'll start a GB, as far as the plate is concerned there are a few issues with it that I'm not sure how to fix. Hopefully someone like The_Beast can school me on proper plate making.

Right now we are aiming for a late september early october completion and shortly there after working on a small batch. If anyone really wants a look at the plate files either to offer insight or to make one contact me but remember to do so at your own risk as this is still a prototype.

TLDR
I need help programming an atmega32u4
maybe some help modifying the plate
looking at a month or so before a gb is possible


Thanks for all the interest in this project, hold in there, we won't disappoint 

[dorkvader]

atmega 32u4 is very commonly used and several keyboard firmwares already exist for it.

I would use soarers, but it's currently closed source.
metalliqaz' is also awesome, but he will have ot add your matrix to his software. also closed (but with very good reasons 'cause he's awesome)
Hasu's TMK_firmware shoudl work with no problem, but you have to build it from source (i'm too lazy to do that)
The phantom firmware can be modified to suit your matrix as well.

Even if you do want to make your own, I recommend using one of the above for testing.

[jdcarpe]

Here's the deal with this board. From the beginning we planned to make it open source and maybe do a group buy deal however as it currently stands the board is unprogrammed and thus untested. I'd love to be able to just program the board myself and finish the project but I know absolutely nothing about any coding language. I'm simply waiting on a friend to figure it out and as it stands he could take a while. If anyone knows about programming atmega32u4s please let me know because it will really speed this up. Once the board is working the files for it will be released and I'll start a GB, as far as the plate is concerned there are a few issues with it that I'm not sure how to fix. Hopefully someone like The_Beast can school me on proper plate making.

Right now we are aiming for a late september early october completion and shortly there after working on a small batch. If anyone really wants a look at the plate files either to offer insight or to make one contact me but remember to do so at your own risk as this is still a prototype.

TLDR
I need help programming an atmega32u4
maybe some help modifying the plate
looking at a month or so before a gb is possible


Thanks for all the interest in this project, hold in there, we won't disappoint 

If you will PM me the details of how your matrix is connected to each pin on the ATmega, I can code a TMK firmware for you.

Also, I can probably help with the plate, if you let me know what needs work.

[Joey Quinn]

Here's the deal with this board. From the beginning we planned to make it open source and maybe do a group buy deal however as it currently stands the board is unprogrammed and thus untested. I'd love to be able to just program the board myself and finish the project but I know absolutely nothing about any coding language. I'm simply waiting on a friend to figure it out and as it stands he could take a while. If anyone knows about programming atmega32u4s please let me know because it will really speed this up. Once the board is working the files for it will be released and I'll start a GB, as far as the plate is concerned there are a few issues with it that I'm not sure how to fix. Hopefully someone like The_Beast can school me on proper plate making.

Right now we are aiming for a late september early october completion and shortly there after working on a small batch. If anyone really wants a look at the plate files either to offer insight or to make one contact me but remember to do so at your own risk as this is still a prototype.

TLDR
I need help programming an atmega32u4
maybe some help modifying the plate
looking at a month or so before a gb is possible


Thanks for all the interest in this project, hold in there, we won't disappoint 

If you will PM me the details of how your matrix is connected to each pin on the ATmega, I can code a TMK firmware for you.

Also, I can probably help with the plate, if you let me know what needs work.

Thanks I'll pm you about the plate it's really minor changes. I really need a better understanding of how flip works or if there is something better to use to program the atmega. The 42 uses the same controller as the GH60 so info on flashing that should be useful, I think komar has a thread somewhere. As far as custom firmware goes I'll worry about that later.

[dorkvader]

Here's the deal with this board. From the beginning we planned to make it open source and maybe do a group buy deal however as it currently stands the board is unprogrammed and thus untested. I'd love to be able to just program the board myself and finish the project but I know absolutely nothing about any coding language. I'm simply waiting on a friend to figure it out and as it stands he could take a while. If anyone knows about programming atmega32u4s please let me know because it will really speed this up. Once the board is working the files for it will be released and I'll start a GB, as far as the plate is concerned there are a few issues with it that I'm not sure how to fix. Hopefully someone like The_Beast can school me on proper plate making.

Right now we are aiming for a late september early october completion and shortly there after working on a small batch. If anyone really wants a look at the plate files either to offer insight or to make one contact me but remember to do so at your own risk as this is still a prototype.

TLDR
I need help programming an atmega32u4
maybe some help modifying the plate
looking at a month or so before a gb is possible


Thanks for all the interest in this project, hold in there, we won't disappoint 

If you will PM me the details of how your matrix is connected to each pin on the ATmega, I can code a TMK firmware for you.

Also, I can probably help with the plate, if you let me know what needs work.

Thanks I'll pm you about the plate it's really minor changes. I really need a better understanding of how flip works or if there is something better to use to program the atmega. The 42 uses the same controller as the GH60 so info on flashing that should be useful, I think komar has a thread somewhere. As far as custom firmware goes I'll worry about that later.

I can let you know about flip. The program itself is pretty easy to use. You basically open the firmware, open the USB port and then click on the icons all in a row. I use it all the time.

The hardest part (for me) is figuring out how to get my atmel chip into that mode you need it to be in to use flip.

[Joey Quinn]

Sorry for the lack of information but something family related happened that really required my attention. I'll get back to this project as soon as I can.