Realforce 87UB/55g--Lesson Learned.

[aref]

After selling my 87UB/55g keyboards, I began to miss that Topre feel. Sure, if I type for hours on it, my fingers begin to feel the strain. But the hours I spent using it were gratifying. So I tried other key switches, ended with MX Reds, a mega-departure from 55g Topres. I like the Reds, but I miss my 55g Topres. So, for yet another time, I ordered an 87UB/55g; but this time, it's coming home to stay.

If my digits tire after a couple or more hours, I'll switch to my MX Red keyboard; but I'll have an 87UB/55g at the ready. Damn, it's a keyboard that spoil one's sense of touch and aural pleasure. The MX Red Corsair K65 is a good KB, so I feel. I like Cherry's linear switch. I could have gone to a KUL in MX Black, but the missed feel of a 55g Topre board just hangs on. I'll have a comfortable linear switch for when 'me' hands feel the strain of hours with the 55g switch; and smooth operation of Cherry's lightest linear switch. I tried an 87U with 45g switches, but it was too light for me, a much different feel from Cherry's 45g MX Red; and a world apart from a 55g Topre in an 87U body. So, next week will be a Realforce revelation--welcome home, 55-gram/87UB; and thank you, EK.

Now, for accessory key caps... a 87UB owner's quest.

[SpAmRaY]

Did you ever try clears?

[epzy]

Idk if you want printed or blank RF keysets, but here's a lot of printed ones: http://www.ebay.com/sch/widebasket/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

[Defect]

Did you ever try clears?

I remember when I first joined we spoke about clears.  Really hope you got to try them out.  I agree that I LOVE Topre for short duration typing.  For longer periods I enjoy linear mx or modded clears more.

You should also try Dental Banding your Realforce.  Probably the reason I actually still use Topre

[aref]

Tried them, Clears, that is. Nice switch, but not to replace 55g Topres. I had a WASD with Clear switches for one day only; it was a loaner from a family member.

[Lastpilot]

I'd really suggest trying lubed 62g clears with oiled springs. I think they are switches which complement topre nicely.

[aref]

Did you ever try clears?

I remember when I first joined we spoke about clears.  Really hope you got to try them out.  I agree that I LOVE Topre for short duration typing.  For longer periods I enjoy linear mx or modded clears more.

You should also try Dental Banding your Realforce.  Probably the reason I actually still use Topre

I remember us talking. This keyboard thing is gotten to the point where I finally know what I like; but it's taken a lot of re$earch to get her. I'm excited to be reunited with an 87UB. It can't get her soon enough.

[exitfire401]

I'd really suggest trying lubed 62g clears with oiled springs. I think they are switches which complement topre nicely.

Clears are the MX equivalent of topre. The same wonderful tactility you get on 55g.

[dustinhxc]

I'd really suggest trying lubed 62g clears with oiled springs. I think they are switches which complement topre nicely.

Clears are the MX equivalent of topre. The same wonderful tactility you get on 55g.

Aw yes clears are my love <3

I am back to topre as well. Enjoy both switch types dude!

[aref]

I'd really suggest trying lubed 62g clears with oiled springs. I think they are switches which complement topre nicely.

^ Sounds like an interesting project. I'd like to see how the Clears feel with 62g, I assume Korea-made, springs. Honestly, I'm a much older guy who's at the point in life where he'd rather buy a ready made before doing mods. If I were a lot younger, I'd be game for getting more mod involved.

[Defect]

I'd really suggest trying lubed 62g clears with oiled springs. I think they are switches which complement topre nicely.

^ Sounds like an interesting project. I'd like to see how the Clears feel with 62g, I assume Korea-made, springs. Honestly, I'm a much older guy who's at the point in life where he'd rather buy a ready made before doing mods. If I were a lot younger, I'd be game for getting more mod involved.

If you get THAT curious about 62g clears I'd be happy to mod a board for you.  Would only ask for cost of materials + shipping.

[aref]

I'd really suggest trying lubed 62g clears with oiled springs. I think they are switches which complement topre nicely.

^ Sounds like an interesting project. I'd like to see how the Clears feel with 62g, I assume Korea-made, springs. Honestly, I'm a much older guy who's at the point in life where he'd rather buy a ready made before doing mods. If I were a lot younger, I'd be game for getting more mod involved.

If you get THAT curious about 62g clears I'd be happy to mod a board for you.  Would only ask for cost of materials + shipping.

This is an offer of of kindness. Thank you for being so considerate. I have to ask, do you buy the switches and change the springs; and if so, this can be done on, say a keyboard with a different MX switch? I am curious about the procedure.

[Defect]

PM'd you to keep from derailing this thread.  But also posting short answer here for lurkers:

I desolder original switches (if we're doing a swap and not a kit), remove them, open up a new bag of MX Clears (worn/old clears are better but...i don't offer that service), swap the old spring with a new lubed 62g spring, lube the clear stem, reassemble and resolder.

Couple of my modding albums:
http://imgur.com/a/9ZBkT
http://imgur.com/a/O3w39
http://imgur.com/a/he7jS

[aref]

I received your PM. Your work is incredible. Please don't be concerned about derailing this thread. Your input is helpful to me and others, I'm sure. Not everyone on GH is as savvy as you and some others on this site. So when you and guys like you contribute to a thread, it's welcomed information. And if the thread gets derailed, it's fine with me.

[aref]

Idk if you want printed or blank RF keysets, but here's a lot of printed ones: http://www.ebay.com/sch/widebasket/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Thanks for the link! I may be getting a set of white key caps; or should I just get another 87UW for ~$35 to $65 more? Caution--dilemma ahead.

[Novus]

HHKB and never go back.

[aref]

I've yet to try an HHKB. I use my cursor keys so often, that I feel the Fn layer might not be efficient for me. But I've no practical experience on an HHKB.

[Xowie]

I've yet to try an HHKB. I use my cursor keys so often, that I feel the Fn layer might not be efficient for me. But I've no practical experience on an HHKB.

I have been really tempted to pick up a 55g 87U lately...must resist 

I find that the arrow keys are awkward when I want to use mouse and arrow keys at same time (so right hand on mouse, left hand trying to do arrow keys). For everything else it is no problem.

[eth0s]

Well if you get tired typing on 55g Topres, and if you like MX reds and you like Topre, you might want to try the Topre ergo variable version of Realforce.  The 30g pinky keys are extremely light but about the same as reds.  And your hands will feel much better than with any kind of MX.  For volume typing the ergo variable Realforce is the only way to go.  You can also try the 45g Topre switches as well.  I really like 45's.  I dunno what all the hype is about the 55's, why do extra work?  Why not make life easier, instead of harder?  I guess I'm just some kind of non-masochistic weirdo. 

P.S. Getting RSI/carpal tunnel syndrome before you're 30 is not a badge of honor or sign of manliness.  But that's just my opinion.

[intelli78]

I've yet to try an HHKB. I use my cursor keys so often, that I feel the Fn layer might not be efficient for me. But I've no practical experience on an HHKB.

I have found that once you get accustomed -- which can take some time -- it is just as efficient, if not more efficient, for word processing. For spreadsheet work, I do think it falls short.

[aref]

Well if you get tired typing on 55g Topres, and if you like MX reds and you like Topre, you might want to try the Topre ergo variable version of Realforce.  The 30g pinky keys are extremely light but about the same as reds.  And your hands will feel much better than with any kind of MX.  For volume typing the ergo variable Realforce is the only way to go.  You can also try the 45g Topre switches as well.  I really like 45's.  I dunno what all the hype is about the 55's, why do extra work?  Why not make life easier, instead of harder?  I guess I'm just some kind of non-masochistic weirdo. 

P.S. Getting RSI/carpal tunnel syndrome before you're 30 is not a badge of honor or sign of manliness.  But that's just my opinion.

I tried 45-gram Topre switches, they were too light, kind of peculiar feeling compared with 55g Topres, at least for me.

Already had carpal tunnel; and the surgery to remedy it--it worked. CTS became evident from road biking. Riding the drops of the bars was a killer. I found 30-gram Topres are way too light for me when I felt a 87UW variable KB. For me, MX Red is the nicest feeling lighter, required-down-force key switch. Opinions vary and each of us has our preferences. Thanks for the information and suggestions.

[Grim Fandango]

Might be a bit too obvious to suggest, but have you tried the all-45g topre 87U?

I know the feel between the 55g and 45g is different, but if the stiffness is the only thing that bothers you, then it makes sense to go for something that has a very similar feel but is a little lighter. Unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity to try 55g, but I know I really like 45g.

[aref]

I've yet to try an HHKB. I use my cursor keys so often, that I feel the Fn layer might not be efficient for me. But I've no practical experience on an HHKB.

I have found that once you get accustomed -- which can take some time -- it is just as efficient, if not more efficient, for word processing. For spreadsheet work, I do think it falls short.

I use my keyboards for writing only.  I use my K65 for general online research. It has a volume control for music and youtube looks. In theory, I have a tough time getting past the lack of the Fn-layer cursor controls. I'm sure the other key-placement differences could be easily overcome in time.

[aref]

Might be a bit too obvious to suggest, but have you tried the all-45g topre 87U?

I know the feel between the 55g and 45g is different, but if the stiffness is the only thing that bothers you, then it makes sense to go for something that has a very similar feel but is a little lighter. Unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity to try 55g, but I know I really like 45g.

Yes, I had a couple 45g 87U KBs; but the 45g felt too light for me. Topre 45g switches have a different feel compared to their 55g switch; and Cherry's 45g MX Red feels a lot different from the 45g Topre. As much as I like the 55g, I prefer Cherry's 45g linear to Topre's 45g tactile switch. Hey! It's really late in the Netherlands! I know you guys didn't win the World Cup, but you put up one hell of fight. Germany had a really well-coordinated futbol team. They played such an organized game on offense and defense.

[daerid]

I'm not sure what's going on, but unfortunately my Code w/ clears is the only board these days that doesn't make my hands hurt

[Flyersfan1]

I'm not sure what's going on, but unfortunately my Code w/ clears is the only board these days that doesn't make my hands hurt

I'm so sorry to hear that, Daerid   You were the one who inspired me to buy my first 87u 55g.

[aref]

I'm not sure what's going on, but unfortunately my Code w/ clears is the only board these days that doesn't make my hands hurt

It's good that you found a board that works so comfortably for you. The WASD/Clear I tried didn't feel that good to me. But it was only a week old. From what I've gathered, Clears become smoother with use. Perhaps this is what's working so well for you. I find if I'm smart about not overdoing the time I put in on a heavier key switch, I should be okay with the heavier feel. Perhaps a break from you heavier keyboards will enable you to get back to them. I see a 55g/87UW in the mix. Hang on to that bad boy--don't be foolish and sell it, like I did.

[aref]

I'm not sure what's going on, but unfortunately my Code w/ clears is the only board these days that doesn't make my hands hurt

I'm so sorry to hear that, Daerid   You were the one who inspired me to buy my first 87u 55g.

Hey, Flyers Fan. It's been a while, brother.

[Flyersfan1]

I'm not sure what's going on, but unfortunately my Code w/ clears is the only board these days that doesn't make my hands hurt

I'm so sorry to hear that, Daerid   You were the one who inspired me to buy my first 87u 55g.

Hey, Flyers Fan. It's been a while, brother.

Hey Aref!!! It certainly has been, so glad to see you caught the topee fever again! I hope you have a good go around with the 87u again, it will be a great complimentary keyboard to your k65. 

[aref]

I'm not sure what's going on, but unfortunately my Code w/ clears is the only board these days that doesn't make my hands hurt

I'm so sorry to hear that, Daerid   You were the one who inspired me to buy my first 87u 55g.

Hey, Flyers Fan. It's been a while, brother.

Hey Aref!!! It certainly has been, so glad to see you caught the topee fever again! I hope you have a good go around with the 87u again, it will be a great complimentary keyboard to your k65. 

I think it will complement the K65: one soft, one not-so-soft; a healthy Yin-Yang for an ole guy like me.

[aref]

'It' has arrived. My Realforce 87UB is here;
the 55-gram switches feel fantastic; and 
the aural feedback... ah, the 'thock' is back.

[Grim Fandango]

'It' has arrived. My Realforce 87UB is here;
the 55-gram switches feel fantastic; and 
the aural feedback... ah, the 'thock' is back.

Thock so nice it sometimes makes me take off my (closed) headphones just to listen to it while I type 

I understand that Topre is not for everyone. But I find it hard to imagine many people disagreeing that the sound it makes is quite satisfying. And it is very convenient that it manages to do so without making too much noise.

[jameslr]

Welcome back to the family! I can't imagine not having my RF87U 55g.

[aref]

Welcome back to the family! I can't imagine not having my RF87U 55g.

Thanks. It's great to be back. The keyboard feels fantastic. I had forgotten
just how good these key switches feel. My digits are doing a 'happy dance'.

[rowdy]

Welcome back to the family! I can't imagine not having my RF87U 55g.

Thanks. It's great to be back. The keyboard feels fantastic. I had forgotten
just how good these key switches feel. My digits are doing a 'happy dance'.

Congratulations to you and your digits

[aref]

Congratulations to you and your digits
[/quote]

I am into this keyboard. It is ever so sweet.

[aref]

Two weeks hence with the 87UB/55g, and it continues to deliver exceptional feel with zero finger fatigue.
Thinking about getting one? As Nike, the Geek goddess of keyboards says, "Just do it!"

[rowdy]

There are strong opinions both ways with Topre, but more people seem to really like Topre keyboards

[Fragil1ty]

After selling my 87UB/55g keyboards, I began to miss that Topre feel. Sure, if I type for hours on it, my fingers begin to feel the strain. But the hours I spent using it were gratifying. So I tried other key switches, ended with MX Reds, a mega-departure from 55g Topres. I like the Reds, but I miss my 55g Topres. So, for yet another time, I ordered an 87UB/55g; but this time, it's coming home to stay.

If my digits tire after a couple or more hours, I'll switch to my MX Red keyboard; but I'll have an 87UB/55g at the ready. Damn, it's a keyboard that spoil one's sense of touch and aural pleasure. The MX Red Corsair K65 is a good KB, so I feel. I like Cherry's linear switch. I could have gone to a KUL in MX Black, but the missed feel of a 55g Topre board just hangs on. I'll have a comfortable linear switch for when 'me' hands feel the strain of hours with the 55g switch; and smooth operation of Cherry's lightest linear switch. I tried an 87U with 45g switches, but it was too light for me, a much different feel from Cherry's 45g MX Red; and a world apart from a 55g Topre in an 87U body. So, next week will be a Realforce revelation--welcome home, 55-gram/87UB; and thank you, EK.

Now, for accessory key caps... a 87UB owner's quest.

I missed my HHKB the moment I went ahead and sold it to be honest. Wish I didn't, it was the perfect typing machine, pity I couldn't game properly on it though

[aref]

An opinion is valid only to the person giving it, myself included. I love this 87UB/55g; for me, it works on
all fronts: feel, form, function. Yes, this is not to say that it's 'the' keyboard for everyone; but it is for me.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[aref]

After selling my 87UB/55g keyboards, I began to miss that Topre feel. Sure, if I type for hours on it, my fingers begin to feel the strain. But the hours I spent using it were gratifying. So I tried other key switches, ended with MX Reds, a mega-departure from 55g Topres. I like the Reds, but I miss my 55g Topres. So, for yet another time, I ordered an 87UB/55g; but this time, it's coming home to stay.

If my digits tire after a couple or more hours, I'll switch to my MX Red keyboard; but I'll have an 87UB/55g at the ready. Damn, it's a keyboard that spoil one's sense of touch and aural pleasure. The MX Red Corsair K65 is a good KB, so I feel. I like Cherry's linear switch. I could have gone to a KUL in MX Black, but the missed feel of a 55g Topre board just hangs on. I'll have a comfortable linear switch for when 'me' hands feel the strain of hours with the 55g switch; and smooth operation of Cherry's lightest linear switch. I tried an 87U with 45g switches, but it was too light for me, a much different feel from Cherry's 45g MX Red; and a world apart from a 55g Topre in an 87U body. So, next week will be a Realforce revelation--welcome home, 55-gram/87UB; and thank you, EK.

Now, for accessory key caps... a 87UB owner's quest.

I missed my HHKB the moment I went ahead and sold it to be honest. Wish I didn't, it was the perfect typing machine, pity I couldn't game properly on it though

I understand. I use my Realforce for typing only; and it is a typing  m a c h i n e.  I use my MX Red keyboard for 'things' other than typing.
I have a friend with an HHKB who wouldn't part with it for any other keyboard. He writes code and swears it's the best keyboard for writing code.

[Firebolt1914]

Damn, now I really want a 55g topre. I just bought a new keyboard   . Well, as they say, #WalletHack.

[Altis]

Thinking about getting one? As Nike, the Geek goddess of keyboards says, "Just do it!"

Done! Looking forward to trying it out. We'll see how this affects the saga of finding that unicorn keyboard....

I suspect it will be great, but I still have lots of modding and custom work to do to my other boards still.

[aref]

Thinking about getting one? As Nike, the Geek goddess of keyboards says, "Just do it!"

Done! Looking forward to trying it out. We'll see how this affects the saga of finding that unicorn keyboard....

I suspect it will be great, but I still have lots of modding and custom work to do to my other boards still.

Good for you. It really is the only way to know. The 87U/55g put an end to my doing light mods on keyboards. With this Realforce, no need for me to go anywhere else. The placement of the key switches, the heavier Topres, and the profile of the key caps make for perfect key strikes and I never have accidental key strikes; my fingertips manage to find center on each key cap. I make some typing (operator) errors, but no accidental key strikes. My normal WPM is around 80 to 85--I cannot compete with many of GH's 100+ WPM typists.

[GL1TCH3D]

I have a topre 30g (89s) and the MX red or browns just don't compare at all.
I'll be getting clear switches and modding then with lighter springs to see how they do. I already bought a switch tester and swapped the MX red spring with the MX clear spring and the clears were fairly enjoyable. I'm a light typist if you didn't realize by now xD

[Altis]

I have a topre 30g (89s) and the MX red or browns just don't compare at all.
I'll be getting clear switches and modding then with lighter springs to see how they do. I already bought a switch tester and swapped the MX red spring with the MX clear spring and the clears were fairly enjoyable. I'm a light typist if you didn't realize by now xD

I generally am a light typer over extended periods. If I really like Topre but find it a bit too heavy, I'll try for an FC660C. Ergo clears are also said to be nice.. let us know how that goes.

[GL1TCH3D]

I have a topre 30g (89s) and the MX red or browns just don't compare at all.
I'll be getting clear switches and modding then with lighter springs to see how they do. I already bought a switch tester and swapped the MX red spring with the MX clear spring and the clears were fairly enjoyable. I'm a light typist if you didn't realize by now xD

I generally am a light typer over extended periods. If I really like Topre but find it a bit too heavy, I'll try for an FC660C. Ergo clears are also said to be nice.. let us know how that goes.

The 30g topre is the equivalent of what, a 38g cherry mx spring (in relative terms)?
It's lighter than an mx red. I got a switch tester and swapped the mx red and clear springs and the mx clears are interesting! Though with the mx red they really dipped in resistance after the actuation point, much like topre. I bought a custom JD40 off tj here with mx clear and springs should be coming in a month or so =) (My classmates disagreed with me using the mx blues)

[Hypersphere]

Thanks for sharing your lesson.

Yesterday I was able to try the CM Novatouch (with hybrid 45g Topre switches that have Cherry mx-compatible stems), and I posted a review over on DT:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html

Although it is nice to be able to put Cherry caps on a Topre-switch board, I prefer the appearance, sound, and feel of my RF 87u black with 55g Topre switches (I have swapped out the black alpha and numerical keycaps with lettered white keycaps from a HHKB Pro 2). To me, the Novatouch doesn't quite feel like a Topre-switch board.

Although I really like my RF 87u 55g, I like my HHKB Pro 2 even more. If I could change my HHKB Pro 2, I might want to have Type-S switches (which is possible, for a substantial increase in price) in a black case (possible with a bit of effort) 55g weight (possible with a dome swap) and perhaps a steel plate (not feasible at present). As it stands, my HHKB Pro 2 wins overall because of its 60% form factor, symmetrical design, and efficient layout.

[Macsmasher]

Thanks for sharing your lesson.

Yesterday I was able to try the CM Novatouch (with hybrid 45g Topre switches that have Cherry mx-compatible stems), and I posted a review over on DT:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html

Very nice review...thanks for that. I've been wondering how the MX compatible Topre switches would pan out on this upcoming board. But, like you, I think I'll stay with my RFs and HHKB. After all, I don't know how I could improve on what I've got.

[GL1TCH3D]

Thanks for sharing your lesson.

Yesterday I was able to try the CM Novatouch (with hybrid 45g Topre switches that have Cherry mx-compatible stems), and I posted a review over on DT:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/cm-novatouch-review-t8687.html

Very nice review...thanks for that. I've been wondering how the MX compatible Topre switches would pan out on this upcoming board. But, like you, I think I'll stay with my RFs and HHKB. After all, I don't know how I could improve on what I've got.

Good way to think to save money!
If the audiophile world taught me anything, those $500 headphones become average when you start regularly using $2000 headphones. Your best is based on your point of reference xP