Topre 55g vs MX red

[skuko]

all this talk about topre, novatouch and whatnot got me very curious about topre. i'm trying to imagine how topre feels like and how stiff the keys are, but i'm failing at that... :X

anyone who has tried both mx red (that's what i use daily) and topre realforce 55g uniform, is the "stiffness" a huge difference? thanks

[jameslr]

55g doesn't compare to Red, imo. Reds are linear and 55g topre are tactile. If you prefer linear switches then Topre 45g (or 30g) would be the closest comparison, but they're still tactile.

[jorgenslee]

I never have tried realforce 55g but I am using hhkb 45g right now. I was coming from mx red before I acquired the hhkb and for me the hhkb was really stiff. Someone said they need time to break in. After few months I was now used to topre and when I try to type on mx red they feel so light.

[Grim Fandango]

I have used the reds and 45g Topre both extensively (typing this on 45g).

I think that if you like reds, and you are looking for something similar, then the 45g Topre might be closer to what you are looking for. While Topre 45g and reds are quite different, both have a really smooth feel to them, and both feel light. The main differences between the two is the slight tactility on the Topre and how it feels when bottoming out.

While they are both rated at 45g actuation force, to me personally, the Topre 45g feel heavier than the Cherry MX reds.

[Puddsy]

They're very different. No really good comparison there.

[saturnotaku]

While they are both rated at 45g actuation force, to me personally, the Topre 45g feel heavier than the Cherry MX reds.

I find this to be the case as well, comparing my 45g Realforce to MX red and brown. I'm finding I like the Topre a lot more than either MX switch, but overall, they're difficult to compare. Honestly, the only way you're going to know is to buy both types of boards and use them for a while.

[jameslr]

I find this to be the case as well, comparing my 45g Realforce to MX red and brown. I'm finding I like the Topre a lot more than either MX switch, but overall, they're difficult to compare. Honestly, the only way you're going to know is to buy both types of boards and use them for a while.

Answered in true wallethack style!

[skuko]

I find this to be the case as well, comparing my 45g Realforce to MX red and brown. I'm finding I like the Topre a lot more than either MX switch, but overall, they're difficult to compare. Honestly, the only way you're going to know is to buy both types of boards and use them for a while.

Answered in true wallethack style!

Show Image

problem is, i can't get a 45g one in europe, at least not to my knowledge. any suggestions? :)

[saturnotaku]

problem is, i can't get a 45g one in europe, at least not to my knowledge. any suggestions?

They're available if you can order from the UK.

[Grim Fandango]

problem is, i can't get a 45g one in europe, at least not to my knowledge. any suggestions?

They're available if you can order from the UK.

The keyboard company actually does ship to other EU countries. Which is great, since you do not have to deal with customs (as you have to when ordering from the US or Asia).

However, I had to import mine from the US since the one that the keyboard company carries is only in ISO/UK layout (about 110 dollars in shipping and customs charges, which is kind of insane) . They do have realforce in ANSI/US layout as well, but not specifically the 87u all-45g.

[HPE1000]

My brother uses a keyboard with cherry mx reds daily, and the first thing he could say after typing on my 55g realforce is that it is very heavy. He also has a cherry mx green keyboard so I don't know what he is getting at.

55g topre, weight wise, does feel much heavier than cherry mx red switches though, there is no denying that. I think a better comparison would be 45g topre to reds, after all, 45g is what the novatouch uses. (If that is what you are interested in)

I would say 55g topre is pretty close to cherry mx black switches if you want a comparison. (Maybe a bit lighter)

[noway]

I found cherry reds too light and they were causing too many typing mistakes.   I tried blues which were fine.  I prefer the Topre 55g over the blues and over the IBM Model M.  Someone mentioned that the Topre 55g reminds them of pressing a piano key and I would have to agree.  They are very smooth and quiet.  However, I have very strong fingers and don't type for long periods of time so this might be a factor.  I also prefer a white TKL keyboard and there isn't much competition there unless you go vintage or play with aftermarket keycaps.

[rowdy]

I prefer blacks, greens and BS.

I do have reds and 45g Topre, and much prefer the 45g Topre (HHKB-style!).

Reds to me are just way too light, no feedback.

I can't help but bottom out all the time no reds and feel like I shouldn't, whereas I can't help but bottom out all the time on Topre and just love it

[aref]

all this talk about topre, novatouch and whatnot got me very curious about topre. i'm trying to imagine how topre feels like and how stiff the keys are, but i'm failing at that... :X

anyone who has tried both mx red (that's what i use daily) and topre realforce 55g uniform, is the "stiffness" a huge difference? thanks

I have both switches: 87UB/55g and a Corsair K65/MX Red. I like both keyboards; and yes, there is quite a difference in feel. The 55g Topres require more force. The difference in feel is really not comparable. However, it's not because Topres are slightly tactile; to me, they have an almost linear feel, but not smooth linear like MX Red switches. There is more 'effort' required to initiate the 55g Topre. Not only because it's a heavier switch, but the switch initiates and responds much differently from an MX Red. One can learn only so much from plotted results for each switch; and it's all academic compared with practical testing. For me, the two switches are an excellent complement: the Topre is firm and requires a heavier/firmer key press; while the MX Red is easily activated, which I find helpful when and if my fingers tire. I should add that MX Red switches on the K65 feel different than the same switch on a CMQFR or a Filco, both of which I've had with MX Red switches. I prefer the feel of Reds on the K65; and there's no ping or echo in the body of the Corsair.

Because each switch is so different feel, many say, and rightly so, that the switches cannot be compared. They can; but such a comparison discusses quite different key-switch technologies. I find MX Reds to feel nothing like other MX switches. Even MX Blacks have a much different feel compared with MX Red switches. I can speak for myself only, so please take this with a note of subjective objectivity, which one can call personal preference without bias. If you like MX Red switches, 45g Topres may feel odd to you, as they did to me. They felt far too soft, lacking feel and caving into each key press on an 87U keyboard. I understand they feel different and firmer on an HHKB. Back to the 55g/87UB: the feel of this switch coming from two months of use with an MX Red keyboard, the 55g Torpre felt natural at the onset. I like the firm feel of this switch; and if my fingers tire after hours of typing, I can switch to the MX Red keyboard.

These are my observations. I understand others may feel differently, and that's fine. At least you have a set of observations from someone who is using both 55g Topre and MX Red key switches.

[saturnotaku]

I can't help but bottom out all the time on Topre and just love it

Having never owned a Topre board before last week, I have to say this is why I now prefer it to MX. Bottoming out on an MX is fine, at least on the brown switches I prefer, but the Topre is leagues better. It's impossible to quantify, but the overall feel is just right to me.

[skuko]

problem is, i can't get a 45g one in europe, at least not to my knowledge. any suggestions?

They're available if you can order from the UK.

The keyboard company actually does ship to other EU countries. Which is great, since you do not have to deal with customs (as you have to when ordering from the US or Asia).

However, I had to import mine from the US since the one that the keyboard company carries is only in ISO/UK layout (about 110 dollars in shipping and customs charges, which is kind of insane) . They do have realforce in ANSI/US layout as well, but not specifically the 87u all-45g.

pretty much this. i don't want ISO and keyboardco doesn't have 45g in ANSI

i think i will wait for a novatouch, if that's 45g, even though i have no idea when that will happen in EU. maybe i'll proxy it from the states.

also seeing imsto thick PBT on that would be probably very nice

[Lammie]

Have both 45g, 55g Topre and mx Red. Never been a fan of linear switches. I prefer switches with tactile feedback. If you like mx red, I would say 45g Topre comes closer to mx red than 55g Topre.

Buy the switch type tester if you haven't yet:
 http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-keycap-cherry-mx-switch-o-ring-pro-sampler-tester-kit.html

cheapest way to try out all MX switches. Oh don't forget the Matias switches. I prefer them above MX switches.

[naasfu]

So, I really didn't need another board, but I just ordered a black 87U 55g to bring in for work. 

Never got a chance to try out 55g Topre, so hopefully I'm strong enough to handle it, haha.  MX Reds and Browns are much too light for me (I make a lot more typos), and HHKB Pro 2 is also quite a bit on the light side.  The 62g lubed Clears on my GON have been really great, but I think I'd be ok with something a little stiffer.

Anyways, I will report back later.

[Lammie]

Great choice buying the 55g Topre!

What do you think about the 62g lubed MX clear vs the original MX clear?

I find the MX clear just somewhat a MX brown with a more pronounced bump. Not lubed, a bit gritty also. Still like the Topre 55g way better.

[naasfu]

Great choice buying the 55g Topre!

What do you think about the 62g lubed MX clear vs the original MX clear?

I find the MX clear just somewhat a MX brown with a more pronounced bump. Not lubed, a bit gritty also. Still like the Topre 55g way better.

Thanks, I really hope I like the 55g.   I've read about people getting fatigued from typing on them, hopefully my fingers can take it.   I will be using it for coding, but that doesn't involve non-stop typing all day long, so hopefully it's all good.

I've never tried stock MX clears before.  From what I've read, stock Clears are much heavier.  All I have for comparison are my old boards with MX Browns and Reds. 

I really love these 62g lubed MX clears, though.  They feel slightly heavier than my Browns, but I'm not sure if that's because of the more pronounced tactile bump of the Clears.  However, the bump is very smooth on this board, probably from the lubing?  After using my new GON board for just a couple of weeks, my MX Browns feel much too light, and feel just like linear switches to me, haha.   But if you're ever interested in getting a custom board built, definitely look into GON's boards.  His boards are really beautiful, his software makes remapping key layouts really easy, and the switches that he installs and tunes just feel so good.

[Lammie]

Great!
Thanks for the tip about GON keyboards. Hadn't discovered those kb's before.
Which model did you buy from GON?
Prices around $400 for a MX switch, looks a bit steep to me. But might give it a shot. Like the short travel keycaps and lubed 67g mx clears, rolling from his 'factory'.

[SpecTP]

Great choice buying the 55g Topre!

What do you think about the 62g lubed MX clear vs the original MX clear?

I find the MX clear just somewhat a MX brown with a more pronounced bump. Not lubed, a bit gritty also. Still like the Topre 55g way better.

Thanks, I really hope I like the 55g.   I've read about people getting fatigued from typing on them, hopefully my fingers can take it.   I will be using it for coding, but that doesn't involve non-stop typing all day long, so hopefully it's all good.

I've never tried stock MX clears before.  From what I've read, stock Clears are much heavier.  All I have for comparison are my old boards with MX Browns and Reds. 

I really love these 62g lubed MX clears, though.  They feel slightly heavier than my Browns, but I'm not sure if that's because of the more pronounced tactile bump of the Clears.  However, the bump is very smooth on this board, probably from the lubing?  After using my new GON board for just a couple of weeks, my MX Browns feel much too light, and feel just like linear switches to me, haha.   But if you're ever interested in getting a custom board built, definitely look into GON's boards.  His boards are really beautiful, his software makes remapping key layouts really easy, and the switches that he installs and tunes just feel so good.

I have gotten used to my MX clear KUL keyboard, you won't get tired from typing/coding.. but you will if you game on them.  My fingers cramp up after 3-4hrs of gaming using these.

[aref]

Great choice buying the 55g Topre!

What do you think about the 62g lubed MX clear vs the original MX clear?

I find the MX clear just somewhat a MX brown with a more pronounced bump. Not lubed, a bit gritty also. Still like the Topre 55g way better.

Thanks, I really hope I like the 55g.   I've read about people getting fatigued from typing on them, hopefully my fingers can take it.   I will be using it for coding, but that doesn't involve non-stop typing all day long, so hopefully it's all good.

I've never tried stock MX clears before.  From what I've read, stock Clears are much heavier.  All I have for comparison are my old boards with MX Browns and Reds. 

I really love these 62g lubed MX clears, though.  They feel slightly heavier than my Browns, but I'm not sure if that's because of the more pronounced tactile bump of the Clears.  However, the bump is very smooth on this board, probably from the lubing?  After using my new GON board for just a couple of weeks, my MX Browns feel much too light, and feel just like linear switches to me, haha.   But if you're ever interested in getting a custom board built, definitely look into GON's boards.  His boards are really beautiful, his software makes remapping key layouts really easy, and the switches that he installs and tunes just feel so good.

The 55-gram 87U is an excellent keyboard. Coming off an MX Red keyboard, I have had no fatigue in using my 55-gram 87UB since getting it a week ago; and it's the only keyboard I've used for the past seven days. And if I was going to feel finger strain or fatigue, I'd have felt it by now. If you like the feel of Topre, you'll love their 55-gram switch.

[GL1TCH3D]

I have the 89S/30g and have owned MX reds. They're a completely different feel.
While the 30g is light enough for me to rest my fingers on a key and have it activate, it still requires a bit of a push and after that initial push it kind of gives out until you bottom out. It has a "thicker" feel to it and I personally enjoy it tenfold over the MX Reds.

[aref]

I've been using my 87U/55g keyboard for a couple weeks; and last night I pulled out my MX Red keyboard. No problem acclimating to the lighter switch. Transitioning between
Reds and 55g Topres feels intuitive to me. These two switches, for me, complement each other, even with the significant difference in required down-force and mechanical makeup.

[Hypersphere]

As others have said, mx red is purely linear and light. Its activation is about midway through a complete downward stroke at a force of about 45 cN, but you cannot detect the actuation by sound or feel.

Topre switches are tactile with a feel somewhat like that of tripping a weighted piano key on a real piano. Actuation force is palpable and occurs at about 45 or 55 cN, depending on the switch.

I have briefly tried mx reds, and I have extensively used the following:

RF 87u 55g, RF 87u 45g, Leopold FC660C 45g, HHKB Pro 2 45g, Novatouch 45g.

Although these Topre-switch boards have the nominal switch weights as indicated above, and the 55g feels a bit heavier than any of the 45g, the 45g boards feel somewhat different from each other. The RF and Leopold boards feel the most solid to me. The HHKB feels the least solid, probably because of its case-mounted switches as opposed to steel plate-mounted switches. The subjective switch weights also progress for heaviest to lightest as shown in the order above. At first, the RF 87u 55g felt a bit too heavy, but now it is my daily driver at home; I prefer it over all the others owing to the overall solidity and sound and feel of quality of the board. The RF 87u 45g is a very close second. The FC660C has excellent sound and feel, but I prefer either a TKL or 60% layout rather than something in between. At work, I use the HHKB Pro 2 -- I love the 60% form factor and layout. The Novatouch is a good board, but it feels a bit too light for me.

When I am not using my RF 87u 55g or HHKB Pro 2, I like using an IBM XT or IBM SSK.

Based on my switch preferences and my brief testing of mx reds, I think reds would be too light for me and that I would be more prone to errors arising from accidental key presses from the lightness and lack of tactile feedback.

[wes1099]

Why must novatouch be 45g That is just too light...