.75 key caps on lightweight springs?

[wolfv]

What are my options for .75 key caps and switches with lightweight springs?

Matias has .75 key caps.  Can lighter springs be swapped into the Matias switch?

Cherry MX browns have lightweight springs.  Can one buy .75 Cherry MX keycaps?

Thank you.

[jacobolus]

 

Matias has .75 key caps.  Can lighter springs be swapped into the Matias switch?

Yes. You can use those keycaps with any Alps or Alps clone switch. If you want to use Matias switches, specifically, you can cut some loops off the spring or swap in an alternate spring. Be warned though that if you get a spring that’s too different from the originals, it might substantially change the switch’s feeling.

Note that the way these Matias keycaps work, the keycap doesn’t surround the sides of the switch as it goes down, as most keycaps do. Instead it just sits on top.

Cherry MX browns have lightweight springs.  Can one buy .75 Cherry MX keycaps?

No, if you look, a cherry switch is .61" wide by .61" long (~.81 units), so it’s impossible to put them closer together than about .85 units, even if you made keycaps of the same style as those Matias ones.

[wolfv]

Thanks jacobolus; that's great information

Where can I get lighter springs suitable for Matias switches?

[jacobolus]

Old Alps switches. Or cut a few loops of the existing springs. Or order them from somewhere that sells custom springs.

[wolfv]

alaricljs swapped XM green springs from his Ducky 1087XM keyboard into Matias Quiet switches:

While the switches now can still be compared to ergo-clear it's quite obvious that the tactile point is a narrower higher peak.  It's snappy where I would describe ergo clear as mushy.

Matias Quiet switches with XM green springs might be light enough.
I would prefer even less force, but figuring out the specifications for custom springs is beyond my ability.
And the minimum order for a batch of custom springs may be more than I am willing to pay.

Is it hard to cut a loop off the spring?  Seems like spring steel would be hard to cut.

How about cutting off one side off a Cherry MX cap to make it the size of a .75?
That way I could use MX browns.
Would there be disadvantage to missing a cap skirt on one side?

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

Would there be issues with the switch not resetting if the spring is too light? I think people have similar issues with MX Clear switches.

[jacobolus]

I think you’ll just have to experiment to find something you like. Changing the spring can substantially affect the feel of the switch.

Is it hard to cut a loop off the spring?  Seems like spring steel would be hard to cut.

It is hard, but it’s pretty skinny wire. You’ll need high quality cutters (or be willing to accept the wear and tear on lower quality cutters).

How about cutting off one side off a Cherry MX cap to make it the size of a .75?

As I said before, the tightest you’re going to be able to pack MX switches is about .85 units apart (and even that might be pushing it). But go ahead and try it and see what you can do!

[wolfv]

How about cutting off one side off a Cherry MX cap to make it the size of a .75?

As I said before, the tightest you’re going to be able to pack MX switches is about .85 units apart (and even that might be pushing it). But go ahead and try it and see what you can do!

The keys will be in a finger well with a 15 degree angle between rows (sorry for not mentioning this before).
So getting .75 spacing at the tops of the key caps is doable.

I am leaning towards Cherry MX browns with a key caps that one side cut back.
It will look ugly, but that's OK for a prototype.
It's the simplest way to implement .75 key caps on lightweight springs.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

Since it sounds like you are going for Cherry MX, Sprit is running a group buy for springs of various weights: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55888.0;topicseen. It says extra orders are open currently, but I didn't read anything in depth. I ordered from the first round and it went well and was fast. The weights are for the all the way depressed, not half-way like the Cherry MX specs that are given for activation. 50g and 55g would be slightly lighter than stock Cherry springs that are in Browns/Reds/Blues.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

Originative also sells springs for Cherry MX: http://www.originativeco.com/collections/accessories/products/springs

[hoggy]

Where are you based, I've got a devlin board with smaller than normal keycaps (to cope with really tight spacing between keys) - gotta picture somewhere...

[wolfv]

Hi hoggy,

I am in the USA.  Thanks for finding small caps .
Could you tell me the dimensions of the cap tops?
Are they Cherry caps?
I guess Cherry is all they sell.  http://www.devlin.co.uk/products/input-devices/cherry/

[hoggy]

Yeah, just Cherry.

Caps are small, but not as small as the .75s.  15mm square - as opposed to standard 17mm (measurements taken on a old retractable, might be fractionally off).

If you decide on this route, devlin are quite friendly to deal with.  Alternatively, Qwerkeys might be able to help out (unless I'm wrong, their caps are from devlin). 

Keyboard in question (might make things easier to explain) - drat, can't find a product name - serial number is D1093074 - Cherry browns with card reader, detachable cables.

[hoggy]

Sorry, not thinking. If you want the board, it's yours for the postage.

[wolfv]

Thanks hoggy.
Very nice;  smallish key caps with Cherry browns

Your offer is very generous.
Right now I am pursuing the DodoHand.  But if that doesn't pan out, I would harvest the caps and switches from your devlin board.

[dorkvader]

alaricljs swapped XM green springs from his Ducky 1087XM keyboard into Matias Quiet switches:

While the switches now can still be compared to ergo-clear it's quite obvious that the tactile point is a narrower higher peak.  It's snappy where I would describe ergo clear as mushy.

Matias Quiet switches with XM green springs might be light enough.
I would prefer even less force, but figuring out the specifications for custom springs is beyond my ability.
And the minimum order for a batch of custom springs may be more than I am willing to pay.

Is it hard to cut a loop off the spring?  Seems like spring steel would be hard to cut.

How about cutting off one side off a Cherry MX cap to make it the size of a .75?
That way I could use MX browns.
Would there be disadvantage to missing a cap skirt on one side?

I got to type on alaricLJS's keyboard for a little when I visited him last.

I really liked it.

[Oobly]

This keyboard also has smaller than standard keycaps: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62392.0

Datalux Spacesaver. There were two versions of it made, one with MEI linear "rubber band" switches and one with Cherry ML switches. Not sure the caps are MX compatible but they may be.

0.625" vertical spacing.

<EDIT> Apparently they are MX compatible! http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/mei-switches-t4726.html </EDIT>

[Oobly]

Another way to get MX switches with closer spacing is to curve the mount plate. This brings the keycap tops closer together. Counter-intuitively you have to space the switches themselves a bit wider in the vertical, but you can use standard keycaps.