IBM Model F 4704 107-key

[Oobly]

Let the bidding wars begin....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Vintage-Clicky-Keyboard-RARE-4700-Model-F-/251620237236?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3a95bc1fb4

[1391406]

Is it Capacitive BS?

[E TwentyNine]

Nah, it's rubber dome.  Don't even bother with it, just forget this post.

[Oobly]

Is it Capacitive BS?

Nah, it's rubber dome.  Don't even bother with it, just forget this post.

According to the seller it is....

"capacitive buckling spring switches" in the item description. Part of your bidding strategy, perhaps?

What is eBay's policy if you buy something and discover the description doesn't match the item?

Just going to point out that since I live in Finland, I can't buy this board, just posted it here as a heads-up.

[berserkfan]

Nah, it's rubber dome.  Don't even bother with it, just forget this post.

I have one that looks like it minus the function keys on the left, but it doesn't have capacitative buckling springs.

The lack of information makes it hard to make a good bid. But I suppose being 2x as big as a Kishsaver should probably reduce the enthusiasm of geekhackers.

[nubbinator]

Nah, it's rubber dome.  Don't even bother with it, just forget this post.

I guess it's good that I was outbid as the first bidder then.

[berserkfan]

Is it Capacitive BS?

Nah, it's rubber dome.  Don't even bother with it, just forget this post.

According to the seller it is....

"capacitive buckling spring switches" in the item description. Part of your bidding strategy, perhaps?

What is eBay's policy if you buy something and discover the description doesn't match the item?

Just going to point out that since I live in Finland, I can't buy this board, just posted it here as a heads-up.

good call, Oobly. I wasn't going to bid on this also because I had my doubts. shipping may double or triple whatever price we pay, and experience has shown that most sellers don't know or don't care about what capacitative buckling springs are.

however I did have my little gut feel that some US residents want to dissuade other people from buying. Hey, it's 2x Kishsavers in one, if you're American ie with cheaper shipping it is worth the risk! Just saw off the parts you don't like and glue the remaining together and you have a Kishsaver and an awesome matrix numpad! Even if it is Rubber Dome, it is good quality dome, and you'll get back whatever you paid for it!

[ComradeSniper]

This will be fun.

[jwaz]

Finally, an actually great find being posted

[nubbinator]

Finally, an actually great find being posted

Well, you know, I can't post the truly great ones or I'd have competition.

[E TwentyNine]

Finally, an actually great find being posted

..by someone who has no interest in buying it.  Because you know anyone who does have an interest wouldn't post it here.

(And yes I was JOKING about the rubber domeness....)

[1391406]

Will it work with Soarer's converter?

[1391406]

I'd mod the layout to ANSI, and there's no telling how stiff that space bar is.

[nubbinator]

(And yes I was JOKING about the rubber domeness....)

Damn, now I'm doubly sad. 

[E TwentyNine]

This morning this was at $3.50.   Now it's at $71 with more than 4 days left.

[kalrand]

This is going to get expensive...

[dorkvader]

This morning this was at $3.50.   Now it's at $71 with more than 4 days left.

Was also posted at DT.

When I saw this I cried. The guy (likely a community member based on their past ebay sales) did his research well (and is a really nice guy!) so this was visible enough that all the IBM keyboard guys saw it immediately.

Normally I'd be willing to drop $500+ on this, seeing as it's the one IBM keyboard I want most, but #1 so are other people and #2 everyone sees this auction.

So I won't be bidding unless it's still under $100 with 5 seconds to go. Good luck everyone!

[fohat.digs]

Are those right banks some sort of re-legendables?

[E TwentyNine]

Are those right banks some sort of re-legendables?

Yes, it's common on the 4704 variants.  Kishy's pages have more pictures.

[jacobolus]

Normally I'd be willing to drop $500+ on this, seeing as it's the one IBM keyboard I want most, but #1 so are other people and #2 everyone sees this auction.

I say go for it. You never know what might happen

So I won't be bidding unless it's still under $100 with 5 seconds to go. Good luck everyone!

It’s already past that, so..

[dorkvader]

Normally I'd be willing to drop $500+ on this, seeing as it's the one IBM keyboard I want most, but #1 so are other people and #2 everyone sees this auction.

I say go for it. You never know what might happen

can't afford it until I get a new job.

[nubbinator]

Normally I'd be willing to drop $500+ on this, seeing as it's the one IBM keyboard I want most, but #1 so are other people and #2 everyone sees this auction.

I say go for it. You never know what might happen

can't afford it until I get a new job.

Why don't you just get a job already then.  Jeez.

[dorkvader]

paycheque won't arrive until auction is over.

Whole point of job is buying KBs.

[ComradeSniper]

paycheque won't arrive until auction is over.

That's what credit cards are for!

[blueSmoke]

My views:
Something is fishy. It looks heavy, yet not thick enough. May be beam spring? He shows the cap but not the switch area.

What is pushing the spring mechanism? Where is the barrel? The cap looks like it goes inside the barrel, but too thick at the sides.

Somebody ask the seller to take photos of the barrel and the side. Then it might be ok.

Too expensive though. A beam spring may be better.

[dorkvader]

paycheque won't arrive until auction is over.

That's what credit cards are for!

No-one's gonna give me a CC if I have no income.

I've thought it out and instead plan to get the next one I find, in 5 or 6 years (hopefully less).

My views:
Something is fishy. It looks heavy, yet not thick enough. May be beam spring? He shows the cap but not the switch area.

What is pushing the spring mechanism? Where is the barrel? The cap looks like it goes inside the barrel, but too thick at the sides.

Somebody ask the seller to take photos of the barrel and the side. Then it might be ok.

Too expensive though. A beam spring may be better.

Seller photos are not needed. This is an IBM 6020218 4704-400 101-key "administrative" model for the 4704 banking / finance terminal system. It is indeed capacitive buckling spring and features a die-cast metal case. The popular "kishsaver" keyboard (or 62-key 4704-200) is also in this line.

You can tell it's buckling spring by the curved profile and keycap font / printing.

But if you still require pictures, here they are on kishy's website:


http://kishy.ca/?p=894 (scroll down).

The seller even has a picture of a buckling spring keycap: you can see everything from the curved portion that sits "over" the barrel, to the "nub" that holds the spring in place:
This is clearly a buckling spring keyboard.

[jacobolus]

My views: Something is fishy. It looks heavy, yet not thick enough. May be beam spring? He shows the cap but not the switch area.

Hmm? This is pretty clearly a Model F, the big brother of the “kishsaver”. It looks just like it’s supposed to. I’m sure it’s heavy considering all the metal plates in there. Also relatively thin (much thinner than a beam spring).

Hard to judge what’s “too expensive” considering how rare these are.

[dorkvader]

Hard to judge what’s “too expensive” considering how rare these are.

I bet the guys at "south texas products" would regret throwing out all their stock of these if they saw this.

[E TwentyNine]

Hard to judge what’s “too expensive” considering how rare these are.

I bet the guys at "south texas products" would regret throwing out all their stock of these if they saw this.

Who?  Did I miss a good story?

[dorkvader]

They had a large stock of these (likely a few dozen: maybe even a hundred or more) and we were trying to buy them for the longest time. They kept putting us off and not getting back. This was back when the 4704 was still not common knowledge. Eventually they got back to us and said they had scrapped them all.

I have tried to check with China to see if they ended up there, but I'm fairly certain that they ended up in an industrial shredder stateside.

It was a very sad day for us all.

[snoopy]

Wow, this thing would look good on my desk. With the two clusters on the right full of clacks

[ShawnMeg]

They had a large stock of these (likely a few dozen: maybe even a hundred or more) and we were trying to buy them for the longest time. They kept putting us off and not getting back. This was back when the 4704 was still not common knowledge. Eventually they got back to us and said they had scrapped them all.

I have tried to check with China to see if they ended up there, but I'm fairly certain that they ended up in an industrial shredder stateside.

It was a very sad day for us all.

What a horrible end to those keyboards.  That's like destroying art.

[JPG]

They had a large stock of these (likely a few dozen: maybe even a hundred or more) and we were trying to buy them for the longest time. They kept putting us off and not getting back. This was back when the 4704 was still not common knowledge. Eventually they got back to us and said they had scrapped them all.

I have tried to check with China to see if they ended up there, but I'm fairly certain that they ended up in an industrial shredder stateside.

It was a very sad day for us all.

What a horrible end to those keyboards.  That's like destroying art.

Worse, it's like destroying USEFULL art! 

[1391406]

They had a large stock of these (likely a few dozen: maybe even a hundred or more) and we were trying to buy them for the longest time. They kept putting us off and not getting back. This was back when the 4704 was still not common knowledge. Eventually they got back to us and said they had scrapped them all.

I have tried to check with China to see if they ended up there, but I'm fairly certain that they ended up in an industrial shredder stateside.

I don't understand this at all. Someone's willing to pay good money for something you don't want and you decide to scrap it.

[vivalarevolución]

They had a large stock of these (likely a few dozen: maybe even a hundred or more) and we were trying to buy them for the longest time. They kept putting us off and not getting back. This was back when the 4704 was still not common knowledge. Eventually they got back to us and said they had scrapped them all.

I have tried to check with China to see if they ended up there, but I'm fairly certain that they ended up in an industrial shredder stateside.

I don't understand this at all. Someone's willing to pay good money for something you don't want and you decide to scrap it.

The immediate cash payment of scraping is worth more to them than taking the time for pictures and selling individually.  Scrapers don't exactly have a preservationist mindset.

[1391406]

They had a large stock of these (likely a few dozen: maybe even a hundred or more) and we were trying to buy them for the longest time. They kept putting us off and not getting back. This was back when the 4704 was still not common knowledge. Eventually they got back to us and said they had scrapped them all.

I have tried to check with China to see if they ended up there, but I'm fairly certain that they ended up in an industrial shredder stateside.

I don't understand this at all. Someone's willing to pay good money for something you don't want and you decide to scrap it.

The immediate cash payment of scraping is worth more to them than taking the time for pictures and selling individually.  Scrapers don't exactly have a preservationist mindset.

South Texas Products specializes in providing new and refurbished computer products, though. It seems like they'd at least entertain an offer prior to scrapping those boards.

[dorkvader]

The immediate cash payment of scraping is worth more to them than taking the time for pictures and selling individually.  Scrapers don't exactly have a preservationist mindset.

We were willing to buy them in bulk with no pictures or other information.

[ComradeSniper]

The immediate cash payment of scraping is worth more to them than taking the time for pictures and selling individually.  Scrapers don't exactly have a preservationist mindset.

We were willing to buy them in bulk with no pictures or other information.

Uuuuuugh. This is painful. I'm sure they got next to nothing at scrap value, too.

[1391406]

The immediate cash payment of scraping is worth more to them than taking the time for pictures and selling individually.  Scrapers don't exactly have a preservationist mindset.

We were willing to buy them in bulk with no pictures or other information.

Just out of curiosity, how did you originally come to find out about them?

[dorkvader]

The immediate cash payment of scraping is worth more to them than taking the time for pictures and selling individually.  Scrapers don't exactly have a preservationist mindset.

We were willing to buy them in bulk with no pictures or other information.

Just out of curiosity, how did you originally come to find out about them?

They had it listed on the website by part number. Then they took their website down. I found their phone number by digging up an archive of the 'site.

Uuuuuugh. This is painful. I'm sure they got next to nothing at scrap value, too.

The case alone weighs like 10 lb, you can get like $.70 / lb for scrap Al. That's like $7 without having to do any work! if you have 100 of these, then it's $700 !! serious cash!

[REVENGE]

The immediate cash payment of scraping is worth more to them than taking the time for pictures and selling individually.  Scrapers don't exactly have a preservationist mindset.

We were willing to buy them in bulk with no pictures or other information.

Just out of curiosity, how did you originally come to find out about them?

They had it listed on the website by part number. Then they took their website down. I found their phone number by digging up an archive of the 'site.

Uuuuuugh. This is painful. I'm sure they got next to nothing at scrap value, too.

The case alone weighs like 10 lb, you can get like $.70 / lb for scrap Al. That's like $7 without having to do any work! if you have 100 of these, then it's $700 !! serious cash!

When did you first call them? Was it before or after July 2011?

[dorkvader]

This happened summer of 2013, but the first contact with them was early 2013.

I thought Kishy got his 6020218 in feb of 2013.

[REVENGE]

This happened summer of 2013, but the first contact with them was early 2013.

Kishy got his 6020218 in feb of 2013.

What???

[fohat.digs]

I quit searching for Model F keyboards from electronics clearing houses.

They often list loads of great stuff, but, without exception, when they responded to me it was to say "currently out of stock"

[vivalarevolución]

So who bought this hoss?

[ShawnMeg]

Holy hell, $617.  I like keyboards, but not that much.  My Model F XT is serving me well.

[Techno Trousers]

Well, I definitely feel that it's worth more than, say, an industrial gray SSK, but still way too rich for my blood. There were a pair of gorgeous beamspring boards that went for less than a third of this price last month.

[berserkfan]

I would rather wait a couple years and go for a future version of Xtant.

One of the best things about geekhack is the combination of so many geek minds. A collector can pay $617 or whatever he likes but I am looking for something actually usable to me.

[fohat.digs]

but I am looking for something actually usable to me.

My feelings also.

The Kishsaver is achingly beautiful (that bare aluminum case that somebody did!) and I would dearly love to have one, but I doubt that I would ever use it, without so many of the keys that I depend on.

I do quite a bit of work on spreadsheets, and so, besides using the numpad constantly, the arrow keys and PageUp PageDn are essential.

[dorkvader]

but I am looking for something actually usable to me.

My feelings also.

The Kishsaver is achingly beautiful (that bare aluminum case that somebody did!) and I would dearly love to have one, but I doubt that I would ever use it, without so many of the keys that I depend on.

I do quite a bit of work on spreadsheets, and so, besides using the numpad constantly, the arrow keys and PageUp PageDn are essential.

This keyboard has 107 keys on it: more than a normal one. You can set up the block on the left as F1-F10 and have F11,F12 somewhere under the navcluster / arrowkeys, The area on the far right is the clear choice for a tenkey. This is one of the most "usable" layouts for a keyboard. Especially now that there's two replacement controllers and converter code for it.