Topre questions

[asgeirtj]

So I'm looking for a full size keyboard and have been looking into Topre, because I hear they feel awesome.  I'm willing to buy it to try it and I'll just sell it if I don't like it.  So far, the Realforce 104/5 is on the top of my list because i take it that it is the most solid full size Topre keyboard there is.  I'm looking at this http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/uk-topre-realforce-105ub-variable-gold-on-black-keyboard.asp ISO one (ISO is an absolute must for me). My questions:

1.  I didn't find any info on the profile of topre keycaps, my absolute favorite profile is the cherry layout and if the layout is similar to oem that would probably be a deal-breaker.  Also are the topre keycaps as thick, and of such a high quality as GMK/BSP?

2.  Related to question one, I really like my BSP keycaps (I also have GMK dolch on the way), so I'm excited about the Novatouch'esque boards that are coming out so I can use my adored keys on, and by that possibly have the "perfect" keyboard.   Also, the Novatouch has a more sleeker, moderrn, look than the Realforce, which I consider a plus, even if it means that it's not as sturdy.  However I'm looking for a full size keyboard and that rules out the Novatouch.  Does CM plan to release a full size Novatouch? 

Another option is a full size noppoo Novatouch clone, however it's my understanding that it's hard to get a hold of because Asia.  It has 35g weight.   Now, my absolute favorite switch is browns, I really prefer light switches, I would even probably like a lighter than 45g switch, So it makes sense that I'm a 35g/45g guy with Topre right?  I've heard people saying that 35g Topre which I don't understand because it's the same switch only lighter. 

My concern is that to wait for the Novatouch clones would be smarter so I can use my own keys and more "streamlined" boards will be available.

3. From what I've read is that the variable weight edition is pretty disliked.  Is this correct?  So it's a better bet to go with the uniform weighting?  I should mention that I write on a keyboard the "correct" way, as with the fingers on the right keys. (don't remember what it's called)

4. I see that there is a silent version available, is the standard version very loud?  Is it similar with the standard bottoming out sound of cherry mechanical keyboards?  If so, that's pretty bad for me as I work in a workplace which is rather silent.  I'm not much of a modding guy so if I have to take it apart to silence it that's not very appealing.

Thanks!

[Puddsy]

Realforce keycaps are thin PBT, and they're a little taller than cherry profile.

CM does, but remember that BSP doesn't make keycaps with legends anymore, nor do they make 1.25x mods.

The noppoo clone is almost guaranteed to be of poor quality comapred to a realforce or novatouch. It's also just rubber dome, not Topre. Topre comes in 55g, 45g, and 30g. Variable is a mix of these.

Variable weight is actually pretty well liked here. It's very good for programmers, but no so much for pro gamers. Some people do game just fine on Topre, but if you ever plan on doing any sort of pro play, MX is miles better.

Standard Topre isn't MX blues levels of loud. Feel free to watch a sound test of mine. Type-S topre is quieter, but you still get that "thock" on the downstroke, but it's a lot quieter on the way back up. Probably not too much louder than your standard rubbber dome.

[TheMark]

I was soo torn between the variable and 45g, that I bought one of each.  I consider myself fairly nit-picky, but I can barely tell a difference between the two. I use the 45g because I like the black color. LOL

Before the Topre, I had an MX Brown which I liked, and an MX Clear that was way too heavy.

Quite honestly, I have 2 Topre boards (one in the box still) and won't be needing another board for a while 

[Fragil1ty]

So I'm looking for a full size keyboard and have been looking into Topre, because I hear they feel awesome.  I'm willing to buy it to try it and I'll just sell it if I don't like it.  So far, the Realforce 104/5 is on the top of my list because i take it that it is the most solid full size Topre keyboard there is.  I'm looking at this http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/uk-topre-realforce-105ub-variable-gold-on-black-keyboard.asp ISO one (ISO is an absolute must for me). My questions:

1.  I didn't find any info on the profile of topre keycaps, my absolute favorite profile is the cherry layout and if the layout is similar to oem that would probably be a deal-breaker.  Also are the topre keycaps as thick, and of such a high quality as GMK/BSP?

2.  Related to question one, I really like my BSP keycaps (I also have GMK dolch on the way), so I'm excited about the Novatouch'esque boards that are coming out so I can use my adored keys on, and by that possibly have the "perfect" keyboard.   Also, the Novatouch has a more sleeker, moderrn, look than the Realforce, which I consider a plus, even if it means that it's not as sturdy.  However I'm looking for a full size keyboard and that rules out the Novatouch.  Does CM plan to release a full size Novatouch? 

Another option is a full size noppoo Novatouch clone, however it's my understanding that it's hard to get a hold of because Asia.  It has 35g weight.   Now, my absolute favorite switch is browns, I really prefer light switches, I would even probably like a lighter than 45g switch, So it makes sense that I'm a 35g/45g guy with Topre right?  I've heard people saying that 35g Topre which I don't understand because it's the same switch only lighter. 

My concern is that to wait for the Novatouch clones would be smarter so I can use my own keys and more "streamlined" boards will be available.

3. From what I've read is that the variable weight edition is pretty disliked.  Is this correct?  So it's a better bet to go with the uniform weighting?  I should mention that I write on a keyboard the "correct" way, as with the fingers on the right keys. (don't remember what it's called)

4. I see that there is a silent version available, is the standard version very loud?  Is it similar with the standard bottoming out sound of cherry mechanical keyboards?  If so, that's pretty bad for me as I work in a workplace which is rather silent.  I'm not much of a modding guy so if I have to take it apart to silence it that's not very appealing.

Thanks!

1. --


2. --


3. I've heard bad things about the varied weight on the Realforce keyboards, but everyone is different, probably best to just try it out yourself and what not, god knows.


4. I used a HHKB Pro 2, so I don't know how much it would differ and what not, but they're not quiet but they're not loud either. Why don't you just go onto Youtube and search it? People post videos of them typing with Topre boards all the time.

[cphead]

35g is extremely light. Much lighter than browns.

[keyton]

Just get the RealForce.

[Hyde]

I own both Realforce and Type Heaven, I find I like Type Heaven's 45g uniform better.

Variable feels inconsistent and the 35g domes feels mushy.  And I find even for typing it's noticeable.

But like people said maybe it varied from people to people, maybe I'm too picky. 

[Macsmasher]

I have a RF 87U variable silent, a RF 87U 55g and an HHKB Pro 2. All three are connected to my workstation and I rotate them throughout the day.

The 87U variable gets the most use and I find it quite tactile, provided you're a light typist. I like the 55g at times, but it's too heavy for me for regular use.

I love typing on the HHKB, and have grown accustomed to the function layer. However, the plate mounted switches on the RF wins out for typing feel and overall impression of quality.

[aref]

1.

2.

3. I had an opportunity to try a variable 87UW. For me, the feel wasn't good. I also didn't care for the all 45g Topre 87UB. Preferences vary; and the only way to know for sure is to try the one(s) you're interested in. It can be a moderately expensive proposition; but it can also be a rewarding proposition.

4. The standard Realforce is not loud. I've owned both 45g and 55g 87U KBs. Realforce keyboards are s much quieter than, say, a standard Cherry MX Black or Red switch on a Filco or CMQFR. I found the Topres to be quieter than my MX Red switches with red o-rings. Topres make a 'thock' sound when struck; my linear MX Red switches with o-rings make kind of 'ticking' sound when struck on my Corsair K65.

[Novus]

HHKB TYPE S BABY BABY 

[Macsmasher]

3. I had an opportunity to try a variable 87UW. For me, the feel wasn't good. I also didn't care for the all 45g Topre 87UB. Preferences vary; and the only way to know for sure is to try the one(s) you're interested in. It can be a moderately expensive proposition; but it can also be a rewarding proposition.

Yeah, I should've explained my preferences on switch weight. I switched to Colemak about a year and a half ago after 30 years of Qwerty. So much of my typing is on home row with Colemak, and my fingers hover right above the keys, which is why I favor the lighter switches in the variable. If I were still Qwerty, I'd be using the 55g over the variable. I can only type 80wpm, so I'm no speed demon. But when typing fast and reaching for keys (as with Qwerty), there's a benefit to the stiffer switches as they provide the resistance needed to prevent hard bottoming out.

In other words, take my switch weight preference with a grain of salt. Most Qwerty typists who are reasonably fast would favor the 55g Topre switches.

[aref]

3. I had an opportunity to try a variable 87UW. For me, the feel wasn't good. I also didn't care for the all 45g Topre 87UB. Preferences vary; and the only way to know for sure is to try the one(s) you're interested in. It can be a moderately expensive proposition; but it can also be a rewarding proposition.

Yeah, I should've explained my preferences on switch weight. I switched to Colemak about a year and a half ago after 30 years of Qwerty. So much of my typing is on home row with Colemak, and my fingers hover right above the keys, which is why I favor the lighter switches in the variable. If I were still Qwerty, I'd be using the 55g over the variable. I can only type 80wpm, so I'm no speed demon. But when typing fast and reaching for keys (as with Qwerty), there's a benefit to the stiffer switches as they provide the resistance needed to prevent hard bottoming out.

In other words, take my switch weight preference with a grain of salt. Most Qwerty typists who are reasonably fast would favor the 55g Topre switches.

I understand what you're saying. You have to find a key-switch with a feel that suits you, not another advocating their favorite key switch(es). I have no experience with Colemak; but from your description, it might be a typist's dream. I've been using QWERTY for so many years, it's second nature to me to it. If you like lighter switches, I would think MX Red switches with red o-rings might be good for you. If you like an even shorter keystroke, blue o-rings might be a better choice. Just one guy's opinion.

[Macsmasher]

3. I had an opportunity to try a variable 87UW. For me, the feel wasn't good. I also didn't care for the all 45g Topre 87UB. Preferences vary; and the only way to know for sure is to try the one(s) you're interested in. It can be a moderately expensive proposition; but it can also be a rewarding proposition.

Yeah, I should've explained my preferences on switch weight. I switched to Colemak about a year and a half ago after 30 years of Qwerty. So much of my typing is on home row with Colemak, and my fingers hover right above the keys, which is why I favor the lighter switches in the variable. If I were still Qwerty, I'd be using the 55g over the variable. I can only type 80wpm, so I'm no speed demon. But when typing fast and reaching for keys (as with Qwerty), there's a benefit to the stiffer switches as they provide the resistance needed to prevent hard bottoming out.

In other words, take my switch weight preference with a grain of salt. Most Qwerty typists who are reasonably fast would favor the 55g Topre switches.

I understand what you're saying. You have to find a key-switch with a feel that suits you, not another advocating their favorite key switch(es). I have no experience with Colemak; but from your description, it might be a typist's dream. I've been using QWERTY for so many years, it's second nature to me to it. If you like lighter switches, I would think MX Red switches with red o-rings might be good for you. If you like an even shorter keystroke, blue o-rings might be a better choice. Just one guy's opinion.

Exactly. It's all personal preference. Yes, I really like Colemak. However, it took a lot longer than I thought to transition from Qwerty. I was productive "enough" in about a month. But it took close to a year for it to become second nature. I don't try to talk anybody into going Colemak. And most of the keyboards you'll use will have Qwerty key inscriptions. Still, I'm glad I switched.

I've tried MX Reds with and without the EK landing pads. While I like the switch weight, I prefer a tactile switch. I used Browns for years as my primary switch before moving to Topre. I see no reason to go back to Cherry.

[Polymer]

Variable only works out for people using "proper" form....People that don't seem to consistently hate variable.  Those that do are more receptive to it but some still hate it.

My personal opinion is variable does take a bit of getting used to..at first you'll test and think yuck - some of these light keys don't feel right at all...If you rest your fingers on the keys you might get a lot of aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...they're that light....at the same time I don't see any additional mistakes and far fewer aaaaaaaaaaaa coming out when I'm leaving my fingers there..

If you're typing a lot, you probably won't notice the difference until you actually go back to a uniform keyboard and your pinky fingers will definitely notice the extra workload...That just shows (to me anyways) that the uniform keyboard is doing what it should do.  I think the only issue I have w/ the variable is it is addicting..I like my uniform Topre boards as well and I switch back and forth but really, my hands are so used to having to work less on the variable that I miss it..as much as I dislike the mushy 30g keys, they make sense when you use it as long as you're using them with the "correct" finger.

Keycap wise..RF keycaps are of very high quality..the PBT isn't overly thick but they feel great, very solid..I don't think I've seen anyone really complain about them...

Gaming wise, uniform will be better....IMO variable sucks for gaming...and personally I prefer Cherry for gaming...

[saturnotaku]

Gaming wise, uniform will be better....IMO variable sucks for gaming...and personally I prefer Cherry for gaming...

I can definitely see why people would prefer Cherry for gaming, but for me, the more I use Topre, the more comfortable I am with them for that purpose, at least on a uniform board. Variable does indeed suck for gaming.

[Oobly]

I'd say Browns are somewhere between 45g and 55g Topre. So 45g are a touch lighter.

If you want a full size Topre board there aren't many options. There's the Type Heaven and the Realforce 104.

I think it's a great idea to try Topre switches, you can't KNOW which switches suit you most unless you've tried them. However, I can't bring myself to shell out for a Topre for a number of reasons.

1. Keycap options. There aren't many, especially no thick low profile caps, which is how I like them.
2. Cost, they're all pricey, although the Type Heaven is similar price to some good MX boards, but has lasered caps.
3. Lack of modding options. If you don't like how they feel, you can't do anything about it.

So I have stuck with Cherry MX so far (plus one buckling spring board). My favourites are trampoline modded 62g ErgoClears (for both typing and gaming), just a hair harder them Browns but with much better tactility and soft bottom out.