[GB] Delta Blues - Alps DCS keyset from SP - GB in now live on PMK

[nubbinator]

Yup, IMO they're terrible.  They clash so much with the profile of the other caps that it makes it difficult to comfortably use them.  I find my fingers contorted to keep from sliding off of them when I type.  If I used my thumbs to hit those caps, it would be fantastic, but they suck when you use your fingers to hit them instead of your thumb.  The shape is totally anti-ergonomic for how your finger joints work.

[CPTBadAss]

I love those convex modifiers!

[jacobolus]

I guess I mostly use my thumbs to press command and option, and use the key to the left of the A for control, and don’t really use the keys in the corners of the keyboard at all (they’re in an awful location IMO). If I were using other fingers to type those keys I can see how it would be annoying to have the convex shape.

I think convex caps would be lovely in a layout like:

[dustinhxc]

We also have spacebar drawings for 1x1, 1x2.75, 1x4.5, 1x5.5, 1x6.25, 1x7, 1.5x2.5, and 1.5x4.5.

Tooling for 1.5x2.5 and 1.5x4.5 will be finished soon.  For the others, we can do temporary tooling that produces spacebars in multiples of 20pcs.

Personally I’m very excited about 1x1, 1x2.75, and 1.5x2.5. I’d also really love to see 1.5x1, 1x1.5, and maybe 1x2 caps in spacebar profile, but I understand there has to be a limit somewhere. :-)

I think these new spacebar sizes, if the caps are relatively easily/cheaply available, will open up a lot of interesting layout possibilities.

Matias: have you see the Alt and Ctrl keys on the Wang 725? I really like the convex spacebar-ish profile on those, shown here on CaptainBadass’s awesome Kingsaver:

Show Image

Kingsaver by CaptainBadass, on Flickr

Now that is a beautiful TKL ALPs!!!!!!

[Badwrench]

We also have spacebar drawings for 1x1, 1x2.75, 1x4.5, 1x5.5, 1x6.25, 1x7, 1.5x2.5, and 1.5x4.5.

Tooling for 1.5x2.5 and 1.5x4.5 will be finished soon.  For the others, we can do temporary tooling that produces spacebars in multiples of 20pcs.

Personally I’m very excited about 1x1, 1x2.75, and 1.5x2.5. I’d also really love to see 1.5x1, 1x1.5, and maybe 1x2 caps in spacebar profile, but I understand there has to be a limit somewhere. :-)

I think these new spacebar sizes, if the caps are relatively easily/cheaply available, will open up a lot of interesting layout possibilities.

Matias: have you see the Alt and Ctrl keys on the Wang 725? I really like the convex spacebar-ish profile on those, shown here on CaptainBadass’s awesome Kingsaver:

Show Image

Kingsaver by CaptainBadass, on Flickr

Now that is a beautiful TKL ALPs!!!!!!

I agree  :thumb:

Shouldn't the "yellow" key be, um you know, yellow?  ;)

Awesome that we can get pure white or black spacebars.  Updating op shortly with more color options based on white and black for more feedback.

[tjcaustin]

I saw someone mention Klaxon, but why not olivetti, too?  Or if you're going full crazy, do rgb/cmyk mods, too?

[Melvang]

While I realize that this is mostly intended for the Spirit boards, does anyone know if SP has the capability to do top row (ESC row) with the stem rotated 90 degrees for compatibility with Apple boards?

If this is possible what are the chances of having that as an add on pack?

[Elrick]

If this up and coming Group Buy will be all for Alps switches then I'll buy a Matias to fill them in with.  PLEASE say that the final design you'll choose will include complete fitment of any model of Matias keyboard?

Definitely would want to buy extra Spacer Bars and Modifiers to furnish a Matias for years to come  .

[jacobolus]

While I realize that this is mostly intended for the Spirit boards, does anyone know if SP has the capability to do top row (ESC row) with the stem rotated 90 degrees for compatibility with Apple boards?

Pretty sure they don’t, but you could always ask them.

Also note that even the EX Alps mount is going to leave keys pretty low compared to the Apple F keys, which are quite elevated. (cf. http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/MountStyles.pdf)

I don’t think SP can do SA caps for Alps (currently asking them), but if they could you could try using SA row 3 caps with rotated legends for the F keys.

Edit: One other idea: get some Cherry MX caps for the F keys and use some of these: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/cherry-to-alps-adapters-t4934.html

[Badwrench]

While I realize that this is mostly intended for the Spirit boards, does anyone know if SP has the capability to do top row (ESC row) with the stem rotated 90 degrees for compatibility with Apple boards?

Pretty sure they don’t, but you could always ask them.

Also note that even the EX Alps mount is going to leave keys pretty low compared to the Apple F keys, which are quite elevated. (cf. http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/MountStyles.pdf)

I don’t think SP can do SA caps for Alps (currently asking them), but if they could you could try using SA row 3 caps with rotated legends for the F keys.

One issue for this current GB would be that the Cherry font is specific to DCS profile currently.  Going SA would mean going back to the default SP font for those keys. 

[jacobolus]

If this up and coming Group Buy will be all for Alps switches then I'll buy a Matias to fill them in with.  PLEASE say that the final design you'll choose will include complete fitment of any model of Matias keyboard?

Note that SP Alps caps use a different mount for the stabilizer inserts (namely, an MX/Costar cross shape) than currently available Matias or most old Alps boards (a rectangular shape), so you could only use SP Alps caps on Matias or old Alps boards if you design and produce (3d print from shapeways?) some kind of stabilizer adapter.

On the other hand, Matias’s upcoming 60%-ish keyboard will use stabilizers that should work with both types of keycaps (they’re currently testing them out?), and the upcoming MassDrop 60%-ish keyboard will use Costar-style stabilizers which will work with SP keycaps.

[nubbinator]

The Mathias board also uses some massive oversized modifiers on the bottom row that will negate any benefit of a more standard cap. 

I know I have had some old Alps boards that had an MX style stabilizer insert, so the trick may be to see if I can find some and if I can, to cast a ton of them..

[Badwrench]

The Mathias board also uses some massive oversized modifiers on the bottom row that will negate any benefit of a more standard cap. 

I know I have had some old Alps boards that had an MX style stabilizer insert, so the trick may be to see if I can find some and if I can, to cast a ton of them..

I have a whole bag of them that I just pulled from my Chicony. They look exactly like the Costar inserts from my QFR.  I will get a picture of them side by side tomorrow.  Might be that we can get away with the standard stabilizer inserts. 

[nubbinator]

And it wouldn't be too hard to do a plate designed with Costar style stabilizers in mind either instead of using the tiny PITA Alps stabilizers that like to pop out.

[Badwrench]

And it wouldn't be too hard to do a plate designed with Costar style stabilizers in mind either instead of using the tiny PITA Alps stabilizers that like to pop out.

This was exactly my thought.  Escpecially since SPRiT seems to like to do cases with his pcbs.   

[Paranoid]

I would be in for Yolch mods! They would go great with the Toshiba keycaps

[jacobolus]

If the stabilizers from Matias’s 60% work out as expected and are offered up for sale for cheapish, I recommend using those in all your new Alps plate projects. Much nicer to have something compatible with any old Alps keycaps you can find.

[Badwrench]

Well, here is what I am thinking for putting forward as an official IC: Black SoWaRe  I was doing more research into SoWaRe and realized that it was actually a mistake trying to do a terminal WYSE replica.  The standard grey for WYSE is GTD, but I feel that the set needs a little more contrast for the mods and as a result went with GD. 

I still don't know which teal to use.  Any preferences? 
Teals with the NN


Teals with the GD

[exitfire401]

Well, here is what I am thinking for putting forward as an official IC: Black SoWaRe  I was doing more research into SoWaRe and realized that it was actually a mistake trying to do a terminal WYSE replica.  The standard grey for WYSE is GTD, but I feel that the set needs a little more contrast for the mods and as a result went with GD. 

I still don't know which teal to use.  Any preferences? 
Teals with the NN
(Attachment Link)

Teals with the GD
(Attachment Link)

I prefer with NN over GD

[Badwrench]

Well, here is what I am thinking for putting forward as an official IC: Black SoWaRe  I was doing more research into SoWaRe and realized that it was actually a mistake trying to do a terminal WYSE replica.  The standard grey for WYSE is GTD, but I feel that the set needs a little more contrast for the mods and as a result went with GD. 

I still don't know which teal to use.  Any preferences? 
Teals with the NN
(Attachment Link)

Teals with the GD
(Attachment Link)

I prefer with NN over GD

NN with be the alphas and GD the mods.  I am trying to figure out which of the teals you guys prefer with each.

[exitfire401]

Well, here is what I am thinking for putting forward as an official IC: Black SoWaRe  I was doing more research into SoWaRe and realized that it was actually a mistake trying to do a terminal WYSE replica.  The standard grey for WYSE is GTD, but I feel that the set needs a little more contrast for the mods and as a result went with GD. 

I still don't know which teal to use.  Any preferences? 
Teals with the NN
(Attachment Link)

Teals with the GD
(Attachment Link)

I prefer with NN over GD

NN with be the alphas and GD the mods.  I am trying to figure out which of the teals you guys prefer with each.

Gotcha. BBQ with NN and BFQ with GD in that case.

[Badwrench]

Well, here is what I am thinking for putting forward as an official IC: Black SoWaRe  I was doing more research into SoWaRe and realized that it was actually a mistake trying to do a terminal WYSE replica.  The standard grey for WYSE is GTD, but I feel that the set needs a little more contrast for the mods and as a result went with GD. 

I still don't know which teal to use.  Any preferences? 
Teals with the NN
(Attachment Link)

Teals with the GD
(Attachment Link)

I prefer with NN over GD

NN with be the alphas and GD the mods.  I am trying to figure out which of the teals you guys prefer with each.

Gotcha. BBQ with NN and BFQ with GD in that case.

That is what I am leaning toward as well. 

[CPTBadAss]

BBQ with NN and BFQ with GD in that case.

I agree with exitfire

[nubbinator]

I'd rather do something more novel with the sets, but I'd still buy it even with with the black SoWaRe...though we need a better name, maybe something like Delta Blues since it's dark, smokey, and soulful.

[Badwrench]

I'd rather do something more novel with the sets, but I'd still buy it even with with the black SoWaRe...though we need a better name, maybe something like Delta Blues since it's dark, smokey, and soulful.

Nothing is even close to being decided.  It is just my favorite so far.  I am planning on taking the mockups and doing a poll (hopefully with a few more color choices), and get a consensus to see what could possibly even make MOQ.  Second choice for me being the Adler colorway.  I would prefer to do something with either pure black or pure white for the alphas so that people have the option to buy new spacebars from Matias. 

I like the name choice though.     Mine was not creative at all. 

[CommonCurt]

Well, here is what I am thinking for putting forward as an official IC: Black SoWaRe  I was doing more research into SoWaRe and realized that it was actually a mistake trying to do a terminal WYSE replica.  The standard grey for WYSE is GTD, but I feel that the set needs a little more contrast for the mods and as a result went with GD. 

I still don't know which teal to use.  Any preferences? 
Teals with the NN
(Attachment Link)

Teals with the GD
(Attachment Link)

I prefer with NN over GD

NN with be the alphas and GD the mods.  I am trying to figure out which of the teals you guys prefer with each.

Gotcha. BBQ with NN and BFQ with GD in that case.

That is what I am leaning toward as well. 
(Attachment Link)

I'd prefer to not have black caps, but I'm sure I would still get the set anyways.

So the Matias spacebars are only available in white or black?

[Paranoid]

Why not get the same teal for both? Seems like BFQ is a lot lighter, don't know how other kits have done this before. I just wouldn't want it too light (thinking of R2 retro), but those were on light grey caps.
Orange on dark grey also looks cool. Perhaps even mixed with teal. But I guess this is getting more like Dolch then

More

[Den441]

Why not get the same teal for both? Seems like BFQ is a lot lighter, don't know how other kits have done this before. I just wouldn't want it too light (thinking of R2 retro), but those were on light grey caps.
Orange on dark grey also looks cool. Perhaps even mixed with teal. But I guess this is getting more like Dolch then

More

Show Image

Yeah I like the idea of a Dolch-like colorway except with BBQ as the legends on the mods.

[CommonCurt]

Please, I beg you. No more dolch.

[Badwrench]

Why not get the same teal for both? Seems like BFQ is a lot lighter, don't know how other kits have done this before. I just wouldn't want it too light (thinking of R2 retro), but those were on light grey caps.
Orange on dark grey also looks cool. Perhaps even mixed with teal. But I guess this is getting more like Dolch then

More

Show Image

I was trying to get more contrast.  Using the lighter blue on the lighter background gives the illusion of both blues being the same but both the lighter color while getting the better contrast on the dark color.

Why not get the same teal for both? Seems like BFQ is a lot lighter, don't know how other kits have done this before. I just wouldn't want it too light (thinking of R2 retro), but those were on light grey caps.
Orange on dark grey also looks cool. Perhaps even mixed with teal. But I guess this is getting more like Dolch then

More

Show Image

Yeah I like the idea of a Dolch-like colorway except with BBQ as the legends on the mods.

I am with CommonCurt on this one, too much Dolch going on lately. 

Having said that, here are a couple options in a Dolch-ish colorway (different greys).  Note also, that people would have to find their own spacebar to match (or dye a white Matias one).
BBQ dolch:


BBQ/OAV dolch:

[pasph]

Please keep the set coherent with the 2  colors of Dell's spacebars (the one more readly available)

[Hak Foo]

Silly question:  While DCS is perhaps the most "OEM-like" profile, might we want to consider DSA or even all-row-3 SA?

Being a single profile, that potentially increases the odds SP will have the right molds to cover everything, and it makes it far easier to support different layouts, both user-choice (DVORAK, COLEMAK) and international.

Do they have a master list of the molds they have on file that will take ALPS stems?

[Badwrench]

Silly question:  While DCS is perhaps the most "OEM-like" profile, might we want to consider DSA or even all-row-3 SA?

Being a single profile, that potentially increases the odds SP will have the right molds to cover everything, and it makes it far easier to support different layouts, both user-choice (DVORAK, COLEMAK) and international.

Do they have a master list of the molds they have on file that will take ALPS stems?

The original reason I went with DCS was to allow the use of the Cherry font and so that people could source correct profile spacebars.  I will ask about DSA, but would rather not go SA. 

[CPTBadAss]

Please no DSA

[Badwrench]

Please no DSA

Noted.  I prefer a contoured set as well.

[Nuum]

I don't know if anyone already suggested this, but an International kit as e.g. in the Granite GB would be very nice and could gather quite a bit of attention between Non-ANSI users (especially if this GB gets advertised properly over at DT). This could be done with just a few important languages (to be chosen) to keep the cost down.
I think, this would be a useful and successful addition for a very first Alps GB.

[pasph]

I don't know if anyone already suggested this, but an International kit as e.g. in the Granite GB would be very nice and could gather quite a bit of attention between Non-ANSI users (especially if this GB gets advertised properly over at DT). This could be done with just a few important languages (to be chosen) to keep the cost down.
I think, this would be a useful and successful addition for a very first Alps GB.

+1

[Nuum]

@Badwrench: Do you plan to post this Interest Check on Deskthority as well?
There might be quite a few people interested in this who don't frequent Geekhack that often.

[Badwrench]

@Badwrench: Do you plan to post this Interest Check on Deskthority as well?
There might be quite a few people interested in this who don't frequent Geekhack that often.

I am not a part of that forum, but if someone would like to share this there, that would be great.  The more input we can get, the better. 

[CommonCurt]

Please no DSA

Noted.  I prefer a contoured set as well.

+1

[Nuum]

I made a thread for this IC over at geekhack: http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/alps-dcs-keyset-from-sp-t8765.html
If you'd like to get something changed, please tell me so, Badwrench.

Edit: Does SP have the tooling to make this set in Alps?

[Badwrench]

I made a thread for this IC over at geekhack: http://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/alps-dcs-keyset-from-sp-t8765.html
If you'd like to get something changed, please tell me so, Badwrench.

Edit: Does SP have the tooling to make this set in Alps?

Thanks for getting that going.  I will join DT so that I can provide additional input.   

SP currently has tooling for everything except spacebars.  Standard mx style stabs on the larger keys. 

[mclarenman01]

These look great! I have a couple of Alps boards that could donate switches to a project so I'd be in on the GB

Also, bit of a keyboard noob question but will these be compatible with a Dell AT101W board? The initial images look to be the same sizes.

[nubbinator]

These look great! I have a couple of Alps boards that could donate switches to a project so I'd be in on the GB

Also, bit of a keyboard noob question but will these be compatible with a Dell AT101W board? The initial images look to be the same sizes.

I think the idea is to do a "super set" so that it has the sizes to work with most Alps boards, aside from those with the big ass enter caps.

[mclarenman01]

I think the idea is to do a "super set" so that it has the sizes to work with most Alps boards, aside from those with the big ass enter caps.

Excellent! I thought that would be the case, but also thought asking wouldn't hurt. Thank you

I really hope this GB goes ahead!

[jacobolus]

I think the idea is to do a "super set" so that it has the sizes to work with most Alps boards, aside from those with the big ass enter caps.

Once again, until someone 3d prints some stabilizer adapters (assuming it’s even possible), SP caps are not going to “work with most Alps boards” because the stabilizers don’t match.

SP caps are great if you have a new custom Alps board you’re making, or if you happen to be using one of the minority of old Alps boards which used costar-style stabilizers.

For most old Alps boards, they’re not compatible. As a case in point, they won’t work with Dell AT101s.

[moemoe666]

Yolch set would be nice
If a new custom keyboard for ALPS available soon, gonna take 1 set

[Badwrench]

Ok, a little update.  I have found out that we can do language packs, but the add-on legends would have to be pad printed. 

As for stabilizer spacing, here are the specs:


Updating op with this image. 

Confirmed visually, this is cherry spacing for the stabilizers:

[prox]

I'm all in on a set of these, however I'm curious as to what you've conceptualised for Main Sets + Add-on packs?
Just trying to figure out what I'll be needing to purchase for my Matias Mini Quiet Pro / Secure Pro 

[jacobolus]

I'm all in on a set of these, however I'm curious as to what you've conceptualised for Main Sets + Add-on packs?
Just trying to figure out what I'll be needing to purchase for my Matias Mini Quiet Pro / Secure Pro 

Note that the stabilizers on your keyboard aren’t going to work with the stabilizer insert mounts on SP keycaps. So for all the keycaps larger than 1.5x1, you can either go without stabilizers, stick with your current keycaps, or find old Alps keycaps somewhere.

(Or alternately it might be possible to 3d print custom stabilizer inserts which would fit, but no one has tried that yet.)