Author Topic: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive  (Read 8739 times)

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Offline The_Beast

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 12:43:11 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

Variety of weighted switches
Variety of stock colors
Variety of form factors
Dip switches
dat pbt vs abs

Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps
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Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 14:33:24 »
I think that we all pretty much agree.  It is just that we have a tendency to focus on those features that matter most to ourselves.

For example,  something I really like but virtually no one seems to care about on a tkl,  is the inclusion of a staggered numpad layer. I am really comfortable with them,  and miss them on a tkl. But I think most people thinknof them as useless.
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 September 2014, 14:36:25 by Grim Fandango »
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 14:38:12 »
Guys I don't see them making titanium topre spacebars. I require the best possible quality under my thumb. WTB novatouch.

Also titanium spacebars shouldn't cost more than a few cents.

In fact, everything is too expensive. It should all be free.

And I demand rainbows and gumdrops and ponies for everyone.

Ponies made out of diamond.

---
Why is it expensive? Because of R&D. Not just the stems had to be engineered There's a lot of interesting work that's gone on udner the hood of that thing, and a lot of it didn't start with Topre PCB and rubber.

It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it. They have to make that back somehow. Designing a new product and actually bringing it to market is very expensive. I think a lot of people underestimate that.

Is it " too expensive for you"? Perhaps. Everyone's got their pricepoint. A cheaper item will sell to more people. A more expensive will sell to less people, but at higher margin. You have to carefully determine the price to maximize profit and market captialization. If you personally fall outside that range, then it's not for you. That's how life and economics work.

If you want a serious discussion as to the costs of prototyping and manufacturing and desinging something like this, then we can have that discussion.

If you want to talk about Cooler Master's perceived brand qualities and how they apply to this product, we can have that discussion too. I think it would also involve a very important discussion as to why they might want to start to change their brand concept to reach a broader market.

If you want to complain about things being outside your budget, then go for it. Make a topic in off topic, or add a post to the "what makes you mad" topic or something.

If you want to make some sort of commentary about capitalism, I guess you can go for that as well.

But carrying on some sort of amalgamation of them doesn't make sense. Decide the topic you want to discuss and we'll do it.

Offline Novus

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 22:24:55 »
^
Well, I for one, am certainly we glad we went full circle on this one.  :p

Offline Belfong

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 22:47:03 »
If I don't already have a RF55g and some of the Topre keycaps and if the Novatouch came with 55g, this $200 price point is a no brainer to me (read insta-buy). The target market of this keyboard is the thirsty Topre lovers who are stuck with boring key caps selection. We paid $200 for RF, so why not for the Novatouch with those beautiful slider. They are selling one, on promotion in Singapore now for around US$220. I am SERIOUSLY contemplating it but I just had too many keyboards at this moment. SIGHHH!
 

Offline PointyFox

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 23:05:16 »
"It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it."

What makes this keyboard so expensive to design compared to the other thousands of keyboards out there, even more featured ones with programming and function layers, Bluetooth, back-lighting, interface software, media controls and macros?

Offline Melvang

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 23:26:33 »
"It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it."

What makes this keyboard so expensive to design compared to the other thousands of keyboards out there, even more featured ones with programming and function layers, Bluetooth, back-lighting, interface software, media controls and macros?

Because the switches are NOT stand alone components that get soldered to a PCB.  Plus engineering for the new case, firmware, electronics, etc, and marketing.  Plus the biggest one would be tooling for manufacturing unless they went with an existing manufacturer.  Plus licensing fees and such.  Stuff adds up much faster than a lot of people realize.
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Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 01 September 2014, 23:32:35 »
"It's evident that CM spent a lot of money designing it."

What makes this keyboard so expensive to design compared to the other thousands of keyboards out there, even more featured ones with programming and function layers, Bluetooth, back-lighting, interface software, media controls and macros?
People underestimate the cost of R&D + setting up a production line for something that seems as basic as a switch sliders. To give you an example, it cost Razer $380K solely in R&D to create the green color plastic tabs for the USB ports on their laptops. Creating and manufacturing hardware is an expensive endeavor.

Offline Fragil1ty

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 03:54:34 »
for those of us that like to think about the future, we may know that cm storm has announced their novatouch tkl based on the topre switch with mx-compatible stems. the abs plastic is a bunch of ****, but so is the price. $200 is way too much from a company like cooler master.

i mean, come on. it's cooler master. i bought a corsair case off this guy on craigslist and bartered down to $60 (saved $40) and he included these coolermaster fans with it. needless to say, i immediately took them out and replaced them with some quality pwm fans. the point? coolermaster has always been junk. all CM is doing with their novatouch at that price point is taking advantage of hipsters, not gamers.

most of coolermaster's target audience are gamers that want to buy parts for cheap. novatouch tkl is a great idea, but 200usd is too expensive.


Going to try and refrain from joining the 'bash train', but let's be honest.


No-one is forcing you to buy it and if you think they're cheap then that is fine as that is your own opinion. End of story really.
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Offline osi

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 07:07:12 »
$200 is more than a fair price for the novatouch. Can't afford it? Don't buy it

Offline jameslr

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 08:55:06 »
Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps

I switched from a RF87U 55g as my daily driver to this Novatouch and I don't miss it. There's something about the 45g on this board that is so crisp. The sound you get from them with nice, thick PBT caps is amazing to me. I still enjoy my 55g board, and would definitely buy a 55g Novatouch when/if they get released. I'm glad I didn't wait for it though. This is definitely my favorite keyboard by far, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

The price argument definitely isn't worth all the fuss that's going on about it. Buy it or don't buy it, but IMO it's worth every penny.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline minho

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 14:34:11 »
Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps

I switched from a RF87U 55g as my daily driver to this Novatouch and I don't miss it. There's something about the 45g on this board that is so crisp. The sound you get from them with nice, thick PBT caps is amazing to me. I still enjoy my 55g board, and would definitely buy a 55g Novatouch when/if they get released. I'm glad I didn't wait for it though. This is definitely my favorite keyboard by far, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

The price argument definitely isn't worth all the fuss that's going on about it. Buy it or don't buy it, but IMO it's worth every penny.

Do you know if you can silence it with Dental bands?

Offline jameslr

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 14:44:54 »
Kinda sucks that they're only doing 45g for now. That's not to say they won't do a 55g later on
Black is fine for me
TKL isn't my favorite form factor, but the 60% topres have never tickled my fancy in terms of layout
AHK could do the same thing
I do think the stock caps on the novatouch aren't going to be great, but I think the Mx stems make up for it. Granted, at a now higher cost due to a second set of replacement caps

I switched from a RF87U 55g as my daily driver to this Novatouch and I don't miss it. There's something about the 45g on this board that is so crisp. The sound you get from them with nice, thick PBT caps is amazing to me. I still enjoy my 55g board, and would definitely buy a 55g Novatouch when/if they get released. I'm glad I didn't wait for it though. This is definitely my favorite keyboard by far, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

The price argument definitely isn't worth all the fuss that's going on about it. Buy it or don't buy it, but IMO it's worth every penny.

Do you know if you can silence it with Dental bands?

You can use dental bands on it, but I'm not sure of the silencing effects of it. I wouldn't want to do anything like that because I love how it sounds.
CM Novatouch | Filco MJ2 TKL w/ HID Lib | REΛLFORCE 87U 55g | CM QFR

Offline pbtforever

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 14:59:27 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

Offline IPT

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:07:14 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS

Offline ceflame

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:17:17 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS

Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:20:57 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS

Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.

It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....

Offline Novus

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:23:22 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS

Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.

It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....

It it good for sloths or gluttonies?

Offline ceflame

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:28:45 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS

Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.

It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....

Ehh, I guess so, but given that 1 person used both a PBT set and the GMK doubleshot set, I'm just wondering how it would compare.

I guess I have to try one for myself. I remember a korean site that had the blue and black font sets listed, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Anyone know?

Offline IPT

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:29:40 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS

Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.

they shine a little slower than normal ABS caps i think
Then again i don't type frequently on my GMK sets lol.
I think my beige set is actually still in the bag...my Dolch is on my fullsize Filco that i don't use.

im currently typing with a SP DCS Graphite set that doesn't have much shine at all after using it for half a year.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:35:00 »
at that price just buy a realforce

there's no contest here

They're the same price, made by the same company (topre, so more than likely the same build quality), but one has the ability to mount Mx caps.

The CLEAR winner is the CM.


At this time, I see literally no reason to buy a RF over a CM.

PBT keys on the Real Force are much better than cheap thin ABS keys.

thats a matter of preference
frankly i find doubleshot ABS better than any PBT.
From SP DCS to Cherry/GMK thick DS

Do you have experience with long term usage with GMK thick doubleshot? I'm unsure of whether or not they will get shiny relatively quickly, so I'm hesitant to drop money on a set.

It all depends on usage, body composition, typing style etc.....

Ehh, I guess so, but given that 1 person used both a PBT set and the GMK doubleshot set, I'm just wondering how it would compare.

I guess I have to try one for myself. I remember a korean site that had the blue and black font sets listed, but I can't seem to find it anymore. Anyone know?

I'm not sure what set you are referring to, are you looking for GMK or PBT?

Also the only noticeable shine that I had on my GMK dolch daily driver set was the spacebar and a couple of the alphas.

Offline ceflame

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:44:04 »
Quote

they shine a little slower than normal ABS caps i think
Then again i don't type frequently on my GMK sets lol.
I think my beige set is actually still in the bag...my Dolch is on my fullsize Filco that i don't use.

im currently typing with a SP DCS Graphite set that doesn't have much shine at all after using it for half a year.

Thanks for your input, just worried that about getting more ABS keycap sets besides stock keyboard keycaps will get too shiny after a while.
I already have granite, vortex pbt and penumbra so I guess I could work with one more.

Quote
I'm not sure what set you are referring to, are you looking for GMK or PBT?

Also the only noticeable shine that I had on my GMK dolch daily driver set was the spacebar and a couple of the alphas.

I'm looking for the GMK doubleshot sets. I remember their site had a picture with the blue font doubleshot keycaps as the listing.

edit: after doing a quick google translate it turns out it's kbdmod.com
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:45:41 by ceflame »

Offline anowt

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:45:19 »
If it is too expensive, that "matter of opinion" will force cm to lower the price. This is how life and economics work. This market should be everyone's market, not just the few. So, no on the offer to discuss irrelevant aspects of cm, but yes to the offer to discuss the impact that psychology has on cm insofar as it relates to the ethics of pricing.
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Offline davkol

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:45:46 »
They definitely don't shine, if you don't type on them.

Offline ceflame

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 15:52:48 »
If it is too expensive, that "matter of opinion" will force cm to lower the price. This is how life and economics work. This market should be everyone's market, not just the few. So, no on the offer to discuss irrelevant aspects of cm, but yes to the offer to discuss the impact that psychology has on cm insofar as it relates to the ethics of pricing.

I'm not sure if it works that way... Honestly reading through this thread, it seems like you feel entitled to having it your way. Also feels like you have an actual hatred of CM as a company.

They definitely don't shine, if you don't type on them.

BEST ANSWER SO FAR  :thumb:

Offline pbtforever

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 04 September 2014, 14:33:22 »
How much is it?

Offline minho

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Re: cm novatouch tkl is too expensive
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 04 September 2014, 14:59:58 »

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