Author Topic: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector  (Read 5092 times)

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Offline Oobly

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IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« on: Mon, 08 September 2014, 03:32:17 »
Hi,

Found another interesting board: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-IBM-Model-F-Keyboard-1984-/141397604420?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item20ebf43844

It has a weird connector, so no idea how it's wired internally or if it will work with a Soarer converter, but looks like a nice Model F for the money (currently at $25 with 2 days left to bid). I'm not willing to pay the $50 shipping + customs duties to get it, so I'm posting for y'all here.

Hopefully it doesn't end up costing as much as the previous F I posted.... I hope it goes to a GH'er so we can see more details :)

-Oobly
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 08 September 2014, 05:45:42 »
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
1984 Model M Industrial Prototype ⌨ 1992 Black Oval Industrial SSK ⌨ 1982 5251 Beam Spring ⌨ 89 Key "SSK" ⌨ M13 triplets

Offline xavierblak

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 08 September 2014, 11:46:09 »
You can also see this thread for some more details.

Offline Vanilla

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 08 September 2014, 15:13:31 »
Welp I was watching this and now my hopes of winning are significantly reduced...  :-[

Offline mclarenman01

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 09 September 2014, 00:05:07 »
Haha! This one has been on my radar for the last few days as well.

Shipping costs to Australia is probably going to stop me from bidding though.

Will be interesting to see how it goes!
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 September 2014, 00:09:23 by mclarenman01 »
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 09 September 2014, 02:16:56 »
There are pictures of teardowns of these around the geekhack/deskthority archives, I believe.

What details do you want to know about? It’s a truly ridiculous keyboard, between the silly XT layout, the huge amount of empty space around the edge, and the super-tall 3-stage feet.

Offline Oobly

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 09 September 2014, 06:07:30 »
Welp I was watching this and now my hopes of winning are significantly reduced...  :-[

Well.... not really. It's quite an obscure board with a big footprint which needs a lot to make it work with a modern PC. AFAIK, you're the only serious bidder of those who've posted in this thread, too.

I imagine it'd be a nice board to type on, with the large palm rest area and being so heavy. I suspect it'll be a good candidate for floss modding.

mclarenman01, since you're in Aussie, this one may be worth a look, although it's got a higher starting bid: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-keyboard-IBM-Model-F-AT-nice-condition-fully-working/251638199704?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Dd774e8b4d4b045cb895ad6a1e2adaf57%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D20131017132637%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D141397604420

It's an AT, so it'll be easier to get it working with a modern PC.

And here's another "Bigfoot" if someone misses out on the first one posted: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-5291-Terminal-Keyboard-Model-F-BigFoot-ships-worldwide-/151345037184?pt=US_Vintage_Computing_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233cddff80
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline mclarenman01

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 09 September 2014, 07:55:07 »

mclarenman01, since you're in Aussie, this one may be worth a look, although it's got a higher starting bid: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-keyboard-IBM-Model-F-AT-nice-condition-fully-working/251638199704?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Dd774e8b4d4b045cb895ad6a1e2adaf57%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D20131017132637%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D141397604420

It's an AT, so it'll be easier to get it working with a modern PC.

Thanks for the link Oobly! Taht one is on my watch list as well :P

If I was the only bidder it would cost me about AUD$90 (US$80ish) delivered. Seems a little steep to me... What are your thoughts?

I'm having a lot of trouble finding any information on line regarding that board too, part number on the back is 263117990...
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 September 2014, 19:59:12 by mclarenman01 »
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Offline mclarenman01

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 09 September 2014, 07:59:02 »
Welp I was watching this and now my hopes of winning are significantly reduced...  :-[

I've decided I wont be bidding on this one. Best of luck Vanilla :)
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 10 September 2014, 21:18:27 »

mclarenman01, since you're in Aussie, this one may be worth a look, although it's got a higher starting bid: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-keyboard-IBM-Model-F-AT-nice-condition-fully-working/251638199704?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131017132637%26meid%3Dd774e8b4d4b045cb895ad6a1e2adaf57%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D20131017132637%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D141397604420

It's an AT, so it'll be easier to get it working with a modern PC.

Thanks for the link Oobly! Taht one is on my watch list as well :P

If I was the only bidder it would cost me about AUD$90 (US$80ish) delivered. Seems a little steep to me... What are your thoughts?

I'm having a lot of trouble finding any information on line regarding that board too, part number on the back is 263117990...

$90 USD is a good price for one in good shape. They have been going for more than that recently. I would say anything under $100 is a good price nowadays, especially delivered. They only very rarely are had in the $70 range.
There are pictures of teardowns of these around the geekhack/deskthority archives, I believe.

What details do you want to know about? It’s a truly ridiculous keyboard, between the silly XT layout, the huge amount of empty space around the edge, and the super-tall 3-stage feet.
Well ideally I'd want to take it apart myself, but I'd like pictures of the top and bottom cases, especially with respect to how the assembly is mounted inside. I have seen good shots of the tri-stage feet as well as the controller and cable wiring.

Offline mclarenman01

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 10 September 2014, 22:17:06 »
$90 USD is a good price for one in good shape. They have been going for more than that recently. I would say anything under $100 is a good price nowadays, especially delivered. They only very rarely are had in the $70 range.

Thanks dorkvader!

I did a little more research last night and the $ you mentioned above sound right to me. There are three bidders on it now, 2 of whom are big keyboard buyers... We will see how I go....  ;)
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 September 2014, 22:19:14 by mclarenman01 »
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Offline Oobly

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 11 September 2014, 02:17:08 »
The item in OP sold for $52 in the end. Great price for a model F I reckon! Hope it was you, Vanilla!

mclarenman01, good luck with the bidding!
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Rexxed

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 11 September 2014, 09:13:04 »
I ended up winning the auction.  I'm going to build a converter and use it as long as it's in good shape (the pictures look good but who knows about the internals).  I've used buckling springs for 14 years but I've never tried a Model F so I'm pretty excited.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 09:52:59 »
I ended up winning the auction.  I'm going to build a converter and use it as long as it's in good shape (the pictures look good but who knows about the internals).  I've used buckling springs for 14 years but I've never tried a Model F so I'm pretty excited.
They are different and almost everyone likes them a bit better.

Best of luck getting used to the layout.

Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 13:19:13 »
 I sold one of these for $25 shipped 6 months ago because I didn't think it could be converted. Whoops.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 13:37:42 »
I sold one of these for $25 shipped 6 months ago because I didn't think it could be converted. Whoops.

Back then it couldn't. Then soarer worked out a replacement controller (He likes doing that, He even had a working one to replace the controller on his displaywriter, making him have likely the first USB displaywriter ever) Then Hasu and others cracked the 4704 communication protocol which this apparantly uses as well. The key was figuring out how to put the KB in a state where it sent upcodes, since it doesn't normally (I guess).

So you have two options: controller or converter.

Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: IBM 4176191 - 1984 Model F - Note the 15-pin D-Type connector
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 12 September 2014, 17:25:08 »
I sold one of these for $25 shipped 6 months ago because I didn't think it could be converted. Whoops.

Back then it couldn't. Then soarer worked out a replacement controller (He likes doing that, He even had a working one to replace the controller on his displaywriter, making him have likely the first USB displaywriter ever) Then Hasu and others cracked the 4704 communication protocol which this apparantly uses as well. The key was figuring out how to put the KB in a state where it sent upcodes, since it doesn't normally (I guess).

So you have two options: controller or converter.

Ahhh, I see. Didn't realize that. Still wish I would've kept it around so I could convert it now, but hindsight is 20/20 and all that.