Printed ErgoDox Keycap options

[myrk]

Well, I finally pulled the trigger on an ErgoDox purchase, and now I'm trying to figure out what to do re: keycaps.

I definitely want legends at least for the numbers/symbols row, and I would like them for the other symbols as well ({}[]|\). I'm being difficult in also wanting DCS.

From what I can tell my options are:

1. Get the Massdrop blank Signature Plastics DCS PBT set and and add vinyl decals to the top or home-made decals to the fronts of the keys.
2. Get a dye-sublimated standard PBT set from IMSTO and the blank ABS DSA ErgoDox Modifier set from Signature Plastics and label what I want with vinyl decals/home-made decals.
3. Get an 87/88 key set from WASD and a custom printed set of modifiers. These are OEM profile right? I've never used them before, are they too tall for the ErgoDox?

How bad would it be to have the DSA for the modifiers and the Cherry-profile DCS for the alphanumerics?
Is it possible to cobble together a set of the modifiers in cherry-profile DCS in some other way?

Thanks for any help!

[Puddsy]

could also just get an ergodox kit that came with some GBs

[myrk]

could also just get an ergodox kit that came with some GBs

Been looking around at GBs, etc. and is it true that there has never been a set of ergodox modifiers in cherry profile? I see SA, SP DCS, DSA, but no cherry.

[davkol]

Why do you want printed keycaps? If for hunt'n'peck typing, you're doing it wrong—set an image of your layout as wallpaper instead. Special symbols are best placed on a dedicated layer anyway.

The single most important thing about keycaps on the ErgoDox is *ergonomics*. Pick them by shape (and quality). Replacement set for Kinesis Advantage is a good start, although it's only thin ABS. You might eventually replace it by a mixture of PBT DSA, Cherry/DCS and SA, which is something I've found to work quite well.

[madik]

Why do you want printed keycaps? If for hunt'n'peck typing, you're doing it wrong—set an image of your layout as wallpaper instead. Special symbols are best placed on a dedicated layer anyway.

The single most important thing about keycaps on the ErgoDox is *ergonomics*. Pick them by shape (and quality). Replacement set for Kinesis Advantage is a good start, although it's only thin ABS. You might eventually replace it by a mixture of PBT DSA, Cherry/DCS and SA, which is something I've found to work quite well.

1. Keyboard will look better with printed legends on the keycaps. Blank keycaps are just missing one thing..
2. For just entering like one symbol while playing or something its quicker to hunt it visually.

But I understand the geeky stand point about blank keycaps.

[davkol]

Then it's possible to use *any* keycaps harvested anywhere. I'm using a mixture of Swiss Cherry PBT, Japanese and German Cherry POM, Russian OEM ABS and blank DSA PBT caps… and my actual layout is Colemak with custom layers for Czech and coding.

However, it's usually possible to feel the lettering (unless the keycaps are doubleshots, dyesubs or high-quality printed), which annoys the hell out of me. In that case, blank is simply better than painted/printed/engraved/etched.

Considering that ErgoDox has very few keys (80 at most), having to hunt for them sounds like there's something wrong with the key mapping. Perhaps if the symbol/function is on a higher layer, but the printing wouldn't match almost for sure then (and a wallpaper/picture would be much faster).

[myrk]

Why do you want printed keycaps? If for hunt'n'peck typing, you're doing it wrong—set an image of your layout as wallpaper instead. Special symbols are best placed on a dedicated layer anyway.

The single most important thing about keycaps on the ErgoDox is *ergonomics*. Pick them by shape (and quality). Replacement set for Kinesis Advantage is a good start, although it's only thin ABS. You might eventually replace it by a mixture of PBT DSA, Cherry/DCS and SA, which is something I've found to work quite well.

1. Keyboard will look better with printed legends on the keycaps. Blank keycaps are just missing one thing..
2. For just entering like one symbol while playing or something its quicker to hunt it visually.

But I understand the geeky stand point about blank keycaps.

Why do you want printed keycaps? If for hunt'n'peck typing, you're doing it wrong—set an image of your layout as wallpaper instead. Special symbols are best placed on a dedicated layer anyway.

The single most important thing about keycaps on the ErgoDox is *ergonomics*. Pick them by shape (and quality). Replacement set for Kinesis Advantage is a good start, although it's only thin ABS. You might eventually replace it by a mixture of PBT DSA, Cherry/DCS and SA, which is something I've found to work quite well.

Well, I've been touch typing for 35 years, and for typing in randomly generated passwords with symbols I still need to look at the keys. Wallpaper wouldn't help, as my windows are always maximized on one of my monitors. If you can touch type random strings of symbols in a password field when all you're seeing is asterisks more power to you; I need labels.

How does mixing profiles work for you? Particularly cherry/oem/DSA? I considered going that route as it makes it easy to get the modifiers for the ergodox if I use DSA since the row doesn't matter. I worried that the profile difference would be too weird.

[davkol]

Well, I've been touch typing for 35 years, and for typing in randomly generated passwords with symbols I still need to look at the keys. Wallpaper wouldn't help, as my windows are always maximized on one of my monitors. If you can touch type random strings of symbols in a password field when all you're seeing is asterisks more power to you; I need labels.

No, you don't. ^_~

Not only these passwords are difficult to both type and remember, they have lower entropy than longer strings consisting of only letters as well. Rant over.

If you have to look where asterisk/hash/whatever is, you aren't *touch* typing (as in "capable of typing blindfolded"). The finger ought to know, where it should go. I look for confirmation though too. Distinction in colors/profiles helps.

The ErgoDox doesn't have enough keys for brackets, tilde, backslash, etc. anyway. Or rather, it does, but at the cost of moving useful special keys to other layers. Keycap printing won't help you in that case, unless you go with a custom set from WASD (which would end up expensive and kinda meh quality from the durability/feel standpoint).

On-screen keyboard or image can be a keystroke or two away in any modern desktop environment (at least KDE Plasma and newer MS Windows have some kind of a dashboard with widgets for sure, I don't use the rest regularly), and you can always print (or redraw) the picture and put it on your desk, next to the screen or somewhere.

How does mixing profiles work for you? Particularly cherry/oem/DSA? I considered going that route as it makes it easy to get the modifiers for the ergodox if I use DSA since the row doesn't matter. I worried that the profile difference would be too weird.

OK, let me start with this: DSA and DCS suck. DCS is ridiculously thin and has some sharp edges on more angled rows IME. DSA on the other hand has a different problem, i.e. it's uniform profile, which doesn't help on a flat keyboard; moreover, if you have MX Clear switches, DSA fits *tight* on the stems and you risk damaging the keyboard (switches) when removing keycaps (e.g., for cleaning). However, you might end up using them, because they're readily available at okay price.

The ideal setup would be more or less (well, take a look at jacobolus' experiments) similar to what Kinesis has done on the Kinesis Contoured/Advantage, but with higher quality keycaps. Higher quality means thick and made of PBT or better POM IMHO. Currently available options are Cherry/GMK/PLUM/Leopold for shorter angled, OEM (Vortex?) for taller angled and SP SA for tall angled/uniform, "dish" DSA might be worth consideration too.

My WIP setup consists of

• Cherry alphas ("dish" F&J) and numrow,
• DSA outer columns and bottom rows (this is temporary until I find some angled 1.5x/1.25x keycaps that wouldn't drive me mad for asymmetry),
• vintage OEM 1.5x bottom-row modifiers for the vertical 1.5x keys in inner columns, because they're angled inwards this way,
• vintage OEM extra tall F-row caps for the upper thumb keys, this is important,
• Cherry bottom-row keys turned upside down for the front thumb keys, because they're facing my palms like this.