New keyboard advice?

[Fragil1ty]

I'm currently in the market for a new keyboard, my current one is breaking I'm sure some of you may have seen some of my other posts regarding this.


My choices of new keyboards are as follows:

• Noppoo choc mini - 3rd time lucky, I guess?
• Filco TKL
• Ducky Shine 3 TKl
• FC660m

I want a keyboard with Cherry reds, I do not want another keyswitch as I'm comfortable and enjoy using cherry reds.


I'm also open to suggestions for other keyboards, I prefer 75% but I will use a TKL that's not a huge deal breaker for me.  I do not want any Poker variants as I do not like that keyboard, it just does not really appeal to me.


So yeah, any suggestions?

[gooseta]

Well if your previous two noppoo chocs have failed, you should probably look at a different option. I myself am currently using the Ducky Shine 3 TKL, it's a great keyboard with nice build quality, although the look is very understated if you're looking for something flashy.

[jameslr]

Get a KUL ES-87

[epzy]

MX Mini?

I liked my Ducky keyboards (Mini, Shine 3, G2Pro) more than my Filco MJ2's, so if you're choosing between those I'd recommend the Ducky Shine 3. The KUL is supposedly really good as well, so I guess you should consider that option, too.

[mikekey]

Filco

[Hypersphere]

I have had several Cherry mx keyboards, but after using IBM capacitive buckling spring, Topre, and Matias tactile/clicky switches, I have been unable to be comfortable going back to a Cherry mx switch. That said, I can still make some recommendations within the Cherry mx world.

I once had a Ducky Shine II with browns, but it had so many problems I gave it away (with full disclosure of the issues, despite not charging for it). My impression is that Ducky has had some quality control issues, but perhaps they have gotten better in recent days.

I have a Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja TKL. It is a good solid board, but there are two things I don't like about it: (1) non-detachable cable; (2) CoStar stabilizers. The CoStar stabs feel better to me than Cherry stabs, but they are a bit of pain when it comes to changing keycaps.

From what I have read in posts and reviews, if I were buying another Cherry mx TKL, I would go with the Kul. It is solid and has a number of nice features. The stock keycaps are not great, but one point of having a Cherry mx board is the ability to swap keycaps.

I also have a Leopold FC660m as well as a Leopold FC660C. I much prefer the Topre-switch model; it just sounds and feels like a much better board. But if you are decided on a Cherry mx board, the FC660m is a fine solid board. It has a good ~65% form factor with a sensible layout and logical Fn layer. However, for sub-TKL boards, my all-time favorite is the HHKB Pro 2.

In summary, of the boards you listed, I would go with either the Filco TKL or the Leo FC660m, but if you want a TKL and you are not committed to Filco, I would go instead with the Kul ES-87.

[Fragil1ty]

What is so special about the KUL ES-87 as opposed to the Filco? It just looks the exact same to me, unless I'm missing something? also, I'd have to get it imported due to the fact that I live in England.

[Puddsy]

Get a KUL ES-87

The KUL is supposedly really good as well, so I guess you should consider that option, too.

yes please

What is so special about the KUL ES-87 as opposed to the Filco? It just looks the exact same to me, unless I'm missing something? also, I'd have to get it imported due to the fact that I live in England.

The KUL is built like a TANK. If you've ever used a keyboard with an Aluminum case, you'd understand. It feels pretty close to that. There's also zero ping, so that's a plus.

Also, it's a fairly minimalist design, so it works in the context of pretty much every desk. Not something a lot of people think about, but it does matter.

[Fragil1ty]

Get a KUL ES-87

The KUL is supposedly really good as well, so I guess you should consider that option, too.

yes please

What is so special about the KUL ES-87 as opposed to the Filco? It just looks the exact same to me, unless I'm missing something? also, I'd have to get it imported due to the fact that I live in England.

The KUL is built like a TANK. If you've ever used a keyboard with an Aluminum case, you'd understand. It feels pretty close to that. There's also zero ping, so that's a plus.

Also, it's a fairly minimalist design, so it works in the context of pretty much every desk. Not something a lot of people think about, but it does matter.

I've just been reading up on it and what not, and 1.) I love the look of the keyboard, I love the look of the keycaps and the font design. 2.) It's in my price range although, little disappointed that I'll have to get it imported to England, fml. 3.) It seems that they are really focused on Quality Assurance and that's something that I look for, with my previous 2 Noppoos breaking after the 6-9 month mark, this has to be a keyboard that will last and what not.


Looks like I've found my keyboard, thanks guys.

[Puddsy]

I baby the KUL review thread if you wanna go take a read of that.

[byte1918]

Get a KUL ES-87

The KUL is supposedly really good as well, so I guess you should consider that option, too.

yes please

What is so special about the KUL ES-87 as opposed to the Filco? It just looks the exact same to me, unless I'm missing something? also, I'd have to get it imported due to the fact that I live in England.

The KUL is built like a TANK. If you've ever used a keyboard with an Aluminum case, you'd understand. It feels pretty close to that. There's also zero ping, so that's a plus.

Also, it's a fairly minimalist design, so it works in the context of pretty much every desk. Not something a lot of people think about, but it does matter.

Sorry, I have no idea but what does 0 ping mean?

[Puddsy]

"Ping" is the noise the plate makes when you bottom out a switch. It sounds like a high pitched ringing. Most keyboards have some ping, and a pretty fair portion of people don't mind it; It's make or break for others, though. If you have a Filco MJ2 or a DS3, those are notoriously ping-y boards.

The KUL doesn't make any noise.

[Novus]

Leopold 750R.
Become royalty today.

[Puddsy]

Leopold 750R.
Become royalty today.

What's the spacebar stem spacing like? Is it Filco style, or weird Leopold style?

[Novus]

Leopold 750R.
Become royalty today.

What's the spacebar stem spacing like? Is it Filco style, or weird Leopold style?

It's standard now.

[paicrai]

noppoo 84 vs choc mini

[byte1918]

"Ping" is the noise the plate makes when you bottom out a switch. It sounds like a high pitched ringing. Most keyboards have some ping, and a pretty fair portion of people don't mind it; It's make or break for others, though. If you have a Filco MJ2 or a DS3, those are notoriously ping-y boards.

The KUL doesn't make any noise.

Oh okay that was obvious, i guess.,  but why is the kul safe from this pinging? I also have a noopoo choc mini and honestly it's pretty pingy and was planning to get another board for work as well so if kul is that great i might take it into consideration too.

[Novus]

AFAIK not every board has ping. It's an issue with costar.

[byte1918]

AFAIK not every board has ping. It's an issue with costar.

So it's only for keys with stabilizers?  Because if this is the case usually some lube fixes it.

[mikekey]

AFAIK not every board has ping. It's an issue with costar.

Wat?

[Puddsy]

AFAIK not every board has ping. It's an issue with costar.

My DS3 pings like mad, same for everyone who I've asked. DS3 is cherry stabs.

AFAIK not every board has ping. It's an issue with costar.

So it's only for keys with stabilizers?  Because if this is the case usually some lube fixes it.

Not at all. That's just squeakyness.

[HebrewHammer]

If you wanna do the TKL setup I would go for the KUL, or the Filco if the Filco is more easily available. If I wasn't looking for a custom I would definitely grab a KUL (hell I still might), partly because EK stocks them, and I hear great things about them.

If the 75% setup is preferred over TKL and you don't care for the poker boards, maybe take a look at Noppoo as another member stated.

[Novus]

I'm not talking about the stabilizers.
Costar is the OEM/ODM for many of these pingie boards.

[Puddsy]

I'm not talking about the stabilizers.
Costar is the OEM/ODM for many of these pingie boards.

It's still not an exclusive problem. I've seen it in some older platemount boards as well. You can even get it from a realforce if you type hard enough...

[Novus]

Costar boards are usually on the brunt of the ping complaint. Of course it's not an exclusive problem because it's basically a QC issue during manufacturing. I think most manufacturers are aware but they because it's not deemed to be a very serious problem that affects performance you still get pingie boards.

[Hypersphere]

My Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja TKL pings on a few of its keys, but it doesn't bother me.

As for Noppoo, I would not recommend them because of quality issues and alleged unethical business practices, including unauthorized copying of keyboard component designs.

I would still recommend the Kul ES-87 for a TKL or the Leopold FC660M for a sub-TKL if you want a Cherry mx (red) board. However, if you were willing to consider a Topre-switch board, and you like the FC660M layout, I would go for the Topre-switch version, the FC660C. I have tried both FC660 models, and I much prefer the FC660C.

[Novus]

As for Noppoo, I would not recommend them because of quality issues and alleged unethical business practices, including unauthorized copying of keyboard component designs.

Never heard of this one, can you link us?

[epzy]

AFAIK not every board has ping. It's an issue with costar.

My DS3 pings like mad, same for everyone who I've asked. DS3 is cherry stabs.

My DS3 Yellow Edition didn't ping, neither did my Mini with reds or G2Pro with Clears... Maybe because they were ISO huehue.

[AverageHybrid]

Can you tell me more of your needs and what you expect of a keyboard?
For me personally I want a clean and traditional look so I like Filco's style of keyboards more.
If you would like a simple and tough quality keyboard got for the Filco
If you need the backlight I would suggest Shine 3 although it comes down to preferences. Never actually used or touched a Leopold keyboard before so yea can't have any advice of that.
If you want more function the CM Storm Quickfire Stealth/Rapid-i is a good choice too, it is also built quite well and has that soft-touch/rubberized texture which you might or might not like.
It all comes down to the little things that add up: Stabilizers, Backlighting, Keycaps and most importantly your needs.

[MaTachi]

I'm in the same position as you.

I'm leaning towards Filco TKL with blue switches and ANSI layout. I live in Sweden, but purchasing it from keyboardco.com makes it easy. I'm not completely sure yet though, since there are so many options to choose between. However, Filco seems to well acclaimed, so I'm sure it won't be a bad choice.

[davkol]

QFR. I kinda ignored it when it was cool, but damn it feels solid, especially considering the price. Replacement keycaps are a must and I plan to swap controllers as well.

Yeah, it's cheap partly due to worse soldering and stuff, but if it fails, the case can be used for Phantom AFAIK.

[davkol]

As for Noppoo, I would not recommend them because of quality issues and alleged unethical business practices, including unauthorized copying of keyboard component designs.

Never heard of this one, can you link us?

Their Topre Realforce knock-off?

[MaTachi]

QFR. I kinda ignored it when it was cool, but damn it feels solid, especially considering the price. Replacement keycaps are a must and I plan to swap controllers as well.

Yeah, it's cheap partly due to worse soldering and stuff, but if it fails, the case can be used for Phantom AFAIK.

I have looked at QFR, and it has a good price here in Sweden. However, I want ANSI layout, so importing it from the American version of Amazon, for example CM Storm QuickFire Rapid-i, makes it about as expensive as a Filco from keyboardco.com.

[davkol]

There are actually ANSI QFRs floating around Europe. Someone from Finland is selling one (with browns) at Deskthority right now. Mine is ANSI too.

[MaTachi]

There are actually ANSI QFRs floating around Europe. Someone from Finland is selling one (with browns) at Deskthority right now. Mine is ANSI too.

Thanks, but I would rather buy a new and unused keyboard.

[davkol]

I don't see the point of doing that (especially considering that the feel of Cherry MX switches benefits from breaking in), but whatever. Besides, that one is barely used.

[Fragil1ty]

Gone ahead and ordered the KUL ES-87 /w reds of course.

Looking really forward to getting this keyboard, all the reviews seem to point it in the right direction and praise it for being a really good keyboard, so I look forward to writing up my review for the Keyboard!

Only bad thing of course is the fact that it's coming from the states and I live in England but ah well.

[Hypersphere]

Gone ahead and ordered the KUL ES-87 /w reds of course.

Looking really forward to getting this keyboard, all the reviews seem to point it in the right direction and praise it for being a really good keyboard, so I look forward to writing up my review for the Keyboard!

Only bad thing of course is the fact that it's coming from the states and I live in England but ah well.

Please let us know how you like the Kul with reds after it arrives.

This past Friday, I received a Kul ES-87 with Cherry mx clears. This is my first experience with clears, and although they seem sought after, I did not like them at all. I am accustomed to bottoming out every keystroke, and clears punish your fingers for trying this by ramping up the force after the actuation point. I suppose this might be a way to learn proper touch typing, but to me the switches feel like a combination of mush and sand.

As for the keyboard itself, the only thing I didn't like was the recessed mini-USB connector on the underside of the keyboard. It you try plugging in a standard cable, there is not enough room to do it comfortably. However, the furnished cable uses a shorter than normal plug, making it easier to connect. Even so, I prefer a connector on the back of the keyboard rather than in a recessed space underneath for ease of connecting and disconnecting the keyboard.

Apart from the USB connector, the Kul is very solid. I appreciated the abundance of DIP switches, which enabled me to swap CapsLock and Control, Alt and OS, and even Backspace and Backslash. Keycaps are provided for the various possible swaps. I also like the fact that on the Kul, unlike some keyboards with Fn keys, it is possible to reassign the Fn key so that it can be remapped with software such as Karabiner for the Mac.

After my negative experience with mx clears, I am thinking that I might actually prefer reds, unless they prove so light that I would be making lots of accidental key presses.

Looking forward to your update when you get your Kul with reds.

[MaTachi]

Gone ahead and ordered the KUL ES-87 /w reds of course.

Looking really forward to getting this keyboard, all the reviews seem to point it in the right direction and praise it for being a really good keyboard, so I look forward to writing up my review for the Keyboard!

Only bad thing of course is the fact that it's coming from the states and I live in England but ah well.

From which site did you order it?

[Hypersphere]

I got my Kul from Elitekeyboards.com. Subsequently, I discovered that they are available also from Mechanicalkeyboards.com and Amazon. There is free shipping available within the continental USA from MK or Amazon Prime.

[jameslr]

After my negative experience with mx clears, I am thinking that I might actually prefer reds, unless they prove so light that I would be making lots of accidental key presses.
Looking forward to your update when you get your Kul with reds.

I would think someone that prefers 55g Topre would appreciate MX Clears more. I know I like them the best out of all MX switches so far. I think you may prefer Ergo Clear to Red since there is a decent amount of tactility there. The only switches I haven't tried are MX Grey (tactile or linear), MX White, or Super Blacks. I am leaning toward lighter switches after typing on this Novatouch for extended periods of time. Now when I switch back to my RF87U 55g it feels too heavy.

[Hypersphere]

@jamesir: I agree with you; this was my prediction as well and the reason I wanted to try mx clears. I might give some other Cherry mx switches a try, but I think I might just have to resign myself to the possibility that Cherry mx switches of any kind are not for me.

Although I prefer my RF 87u 55g and 45g as well as my HHKB Pro 2 45g to the Novatouch, thus far I prefer the Novatouch to any Cherry mx board I have tried. Therefore, the Novatouch may end up being the board I use to showcase my Cherry keycap collection.

This is unfortunate, because I like most of the other features of the Kul ES-87.

[Fragil1ty]

Gone ahead and ordered the KUL ES-87 /w reds of course.

Looking really forward to getting this keyboard, all the reviews seem to point it in the right direction and praise it for being a really good keyboard, so I look forward to writing up my review for the Keyboard!

Only bad thing of course is the fact that it's coming from the states and I live in England but ah well.

From which site did you order it?

I went ahead and ordered it from elitekeyboards.com - https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cl_bbb_al (If anyone is interested and what not).

[MaTachi]

I went and ordered a Filco Majestouch-2, Tenkeyless, blue switches, ANSI layout; couldn't hold myself back any longer. Can't wait til it arrives, hopefully during the upcoming week.

[mouse.the.lucky.dog]

Just checking up on  KUL. From what I see the ES-87 is the only keyboard they make. Is that true?

[Hypersphere]

Yes, currently, Kul seems to produce only the ES-87 TKL model. I emailed them recently about switch choices, and they will be offering more types of Cherry mx switches in the not too distant future.

I've now had two Kul keyboards, one with clears and one with reds. I sold the one with clears. I like reds marginally better, but I will most likely be selling it soon.

The Kul ES-87 is a good solid board with some nice features, but I have finally determined that I just don't like Cherry mx switches.

For me, it's Topre 55g ~ IBM Model F > Topre 45g ~ IBM Model M >> various Alps ~ Hi-Tek NMB space invaders >> various Cherry mx.

[awhitedev]

I went and ordered a Filco Majestouch-2, Tenkeyless, blue switches, ANSI layout; couldn't hold myself back any longer. Can't wait til it arrives, hopefully during the upcoming week.

Filco is always a solid choice. A friend of mine has one and it's definitely a solid board... I just wish they weren't so expensive. For me, I went with QFRs... twice. and then modded them to my liking 

[Hypersphere]

My first Cherry mx board was a Filco Majestouch2 TKL Ninja. At first, I didn't like the fixed USB cable or the Costar-type stabilizers. However, if you don't move or swap keyboards frequently, the non-detachable cord becomes a non-issue. In fact, a fixed cable can be a plus, because there is no USB connector to wear out. As for the stabilizers, Costars make it more difficult to change keycaps on stabilized keys and they can rattle, but they feel less mushy than Cherry stabilizers. Overall, the Filco is a solid keyboard and an excellent choice.

Recently, I sold the Filco along with the rest of my Cherry mx keyboards, not due to any particular failing of the keyboards per se, but because I have finally convinced myself that I don't like any of the Cherry switches (I've tried blues, greens, browns, clears, vintage blacks, and reds). My current favorite switches are 55g Topres and Model F IBM buckling springs, but I also like some varieties of Alps and "space invader" switches.