[IC] GON Custom Alps PCB's/Keyboard (NOW WITH FORM)

[dante]

A few of us have asked GON to take on providing a Alps keyboard for a while now.  Now that Matias is soon to be coming out with keycap solutions - it's time to test the waters to see what design we can agree on for a first GB.

Since KBParadise and Matias are coming out with 60% boards and Matias already has "Mini" and Fullsize boards my suggestions are either 75% or 87%.

No specifics are given at this point; just want to see how many people would at a minimum be interested in picking up PCB's.

PCB's/Controllers will run $50-$75 (just a guess-timate off current MX pricing); assembled keyboards will be likely $350-$500.

Please note: I have NOT talked to GON/Matias about this yet - I just want to get a feel (Interest Check) to see how popular these options would be.


Interest check form is here.

[Tiramisuu]

The only reason i didn't go on the v60 is not programmable so don't be trying to sneak the there's already a 60% by me. 

60% fully programmable,  hhkb layout,  alps    and room for a bluetooth module 

[exitfire401]

The only reason i didn't go on the v60 is not programmable so don't be trying to sneak the there's already a 60% by me. 

60% fully programmable,  hhkb layout,  alps    and room for a bluetooth module 

This would be my ideal model, but I'd settle for this without bluetooth

[nubbinator]

I hate 75% boards since they always look terrible to me, have wonky layouts, and tend to be hard to find correct profile caps for.  If it had to be one of those two layouts 87% (Tenkeyless) would be the preferred.

That said, I'd want a 60% Gon.  It shouldn't be too tough for him to add the functionality to his existing PCB and if it was MX/Alps, it would make it easier to get the GB through, especially if you did a black PCB or something similar.

And since I have my own switches I'd want to use, I'd prefer a PCB/Case/stabilizer/maybe caps option.

[dustinhxc]

Whoa.. ALPS by GON.. You have my attention.. If he can source Complicated orange Im in for full build. Otherwise just PCB and Plate for me.

[fohat.digs]

I can't use anything smaller than 87, but I might be interested.

What is the keycap scenario? Particularly with respect to stabilizers and spacebars?

[Tiramisuu]

Gon Bluetooth module...
http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/pcbs-and-controllers/119-bluetooth-option-set-for-nerd.html

My better half choked on my poker purchase.   I may have to sell a testicle for the perfect keyboard but it might be worth it.

[ComradeSniper]

I would be very interested in a 60% GON alps board, slightly less so in a TKL but I would probably buy either. Not a fan of 75%.

Wouldn't be too interested in a full build because I'd want to use vintage complicated alps.

[Tiramisuu]

I would also like to try my hand at assembly.   I'd likely use the matias quiet click but it would still be fun to do the soldering.

[dante]

Whoa.. ALPS by GON.. You have my attention.. If he can source Complicated orange Im in for full build. Otherwise just PCB and Plate for me.

I don't have high hopes for him finding vintage Alps switches.  If anything, it will be enough just getting him to switch over to Alps in the first place.

I can't use anything smaller than 87, but I might be interested.

What is the keycap scenario? Particularly with respect to stabilizers and spacebars?

Waiting on Matias to release stabilizer/keycap specs.  I wanted to get a head of the game by having Matias submit keycap info ahead of release so GON can have time to digest it.

Personally I am voting for a tenkeyless; there are already two 60% options on the market - it would be nice for a change to have something different.

[nubbinator]

Personally I am voting for a tenkeyless; there are already two 60% options on the market - it would be nice for a change to have something different.

The Matias one is pretty bad though, if you ask me.  The layout is wonky and caps will be totally proprietary to that keyboard, making it difficult to do any real customization.  And with the upcoming SP Alps cap GB... 

The V60 is interesting, but it's $120 for a board I'd be swapping the switches on and doesn't have the same amount of customization as Gon's. Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have an option that isn't a Ducky, but it still needs some work to really be worth the $120 to me.

Also, there's already a nice Korean Alps TKL on the market right now, the Kingsaver.  I know I'm partial toward 60% boards, so of course I'll be pushing for one, but I don't really see it as a niche that's full yet since the 60% options out there are pretty wanting and there's already an awesome TKL Alps board out there.

The only TKL or full board I'd really be interested in is a flipped one with a left hand side cluster.

[geniekid]

I'd be interested in a PCB in one of the three formats:

• 60%
• TK (either Lightsaver style or CM QFTK style)
• TKL with full right-hand cluster (like the Phantom)

Even if I don't end up getting one of those three, I still want to say that this is a really cool project   GON is really amazing.

[Badwrench]

Personally I am voting for a tenkeyless; there are already two 60% options on the market - it would be nice for a change to have something different.

The Matias one is pretty bad though, if you ask me.  The layout is wonky and caps will be totally proprietary to that keyboard, making it difficult to do any real customization.  And with the upcoming SP Alps cap GB... 

The V60 is interesting, but it's $120 for a board I'd be swapping the switches on and doesn't have the same amount of customization as Gon's. Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have an option that isn't a Ducky, but it still needs some work to really be worth the $120 to me.

Also, there's already a nice Korean Alps TKL on the market right now, the Kingsaver.  I know I'm partial toward 60% boards, so of course I'll be pushing for one, but I don't really see it as a niche that's full yet since the 60% options out there are pretty wanting and there's already an awesome TKL Alps board out there.

The only TKL or full board I'd really be interested in is a flipped one with a left hand side cluster.

Exactly.  I am glad that there is the option of the v60, but would rather build my own 60% (pure layout for me, thanks) with a nice custom plate and programmable pcb.

[korrelate]

alps or alps+mx and black pcb = take my money!

if this os also compatible with your cases then take even more of it!

I've got complicated blues lying in wait for a board like this!

[CommonCurt]

Would be down for a 60% plate+PCB if they will fit in after market cases.

Possibly a TKL if GON has other case options besides low profile.

[Applet]

I'd be interested in a PCB (and plate) for 60% or TKL 

[Puddsy]

TKL or no dice for me

[nubbinator]

If it had to be TKL (which would make me sad and would take more to source good caps for) is there a chance for flipped TKL with arrow keys and home/delete/etc on the left side?

[Matias]

I can't use anything smaller than 87, but I might be interested.

What is the keycap scenario? Particularly with respect to stabilizers and spacebars?

Waiting on Matias to release stabilizer/keycap specs.  I wanted to get a head of the game by having Matias submit keycap info ahead of release so GON can have time to digest it.

Personally I am voting for a tenkeyless; there are already two 60% options on the market - it would be nice for a change to have something different.

I'll be posting an update on the keycap situation soon, but I was able to get a Cherry keycap working with our stock stab clips and an Ione balance bar.  I also tried a Costar balance bar, but it was too short.

This means that it should be easy to design a single mounting plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, including the caps that require stabilizers.  It also means that we'll be able to get SP's ALPS keycaps to fit, since they use Cherry mounts for the stabs.

For those interested in a Matias 87, there's an IC running now for a backlit one with aluminum case option.  We've suggested including a non-backlit option, to make it more attractive to those for which keyboards are already sufficient bright.  :-)

[Badwrench]

I can't use anything smaller than 87, but I might be interested.

What is the keycap scenario? Particularly with respect to stabilizers and spacebars?

Waiting on Matias to release stabilizer/keycap specs.  I wanted to get a head of the game by having Matias submit keycap info ahead of release so GON can have time to digest it.

Personally I am voting for a tenkeyless; there are already two 60% options on the market - it would be nice for a change to have something different.

I'll be posting an update on the keycap situation soon, but I was able to get a Cherry keycap working with our stock stab clips and an Ione balance bar.  I also tried a Costar balance bar, but it was too short.

This means that it should be easy to design a single mounting plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, including the caps that require stabilizers.  It also means that we'll be able to get SP's ALPS keycaps to fit, since they use Cherry mounts for the stabs.

For those interested in a Matias 87, there's an IC running now for a backlit one with aluminum case option.  We've suggested including a non-backlit option, to make it more attractive to those for which keyboards are already sufficient bright.  :-)

Excellent news 

[dustinhxc]

I change my vote to PCB + Plate. Either TKL, 70% (Like the Leopold), or 60%. I dont do full size much.

[pasph]

Interested in 75% or TKL

[Matias]

I'll be posting an update on the keycap situation soon, but I was able to get a Cherry keycap working with our stock stab clips and an Ione balance bar.  I also tried a Costar balance bar, but it was too short.

This means that it should be easy to design a single mounting plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, including the caps that require stabilizers.  It also means that we'll be able to get SP's ALPS keycaps to fit, since they use Cherry mounts for the stabs.

For those interested in a Matias 87, there's an IC running now for a backlit one with aluminum case option.  We've suggested including a non-backlit option, to make it more attractive to those for which keyboards are already sufficient bright.  :-)

Excellent news 

Okay, I got it working.  See attached photos...  :-)

[Badwrench]

I'll be posting an update on the keycap situation soon, but I was able to get a Cherry keycap working with our stock stab clips and an Ione balance bar.  I also tried a Costar balance bar, but it was too short.

This means that it should be easy to design a single mounting plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, including the caps that require stabilizers.  It also means that we'll be able to get SP's ALPS keycaps to fit, since they use Cherry mounts for the stabs.

For those interested in a Matias 87, there's an IC running now for a backlit one with aluminum case option.  We've suggested including a non-backlit option, to make it more attractive to those for which keyboards are already sufficient bright.  :-)

Excellent news 

Okay, I got it working.  See attached photos...  :-)



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Nice and simple.  Why the different spacing on the alps/Matias stabilizers?  If the caps use the same spacing as mx switches, couldn't you just use the same wider spacing?

[Matias]

I'll be posting an update on the keycap situation soon, but I was able to get a Cherry keycap working with our stock stab clips and an Ione balance bar.  I also tried a Costar balance bar, but it was too short.

This means that it should be easy to design a single mounting plate that supports both ALPS and Cherry, including the caps that require stabilizers.  It also means that we'll be able to get SP's ALPS keycaps to fit, since they use Cherry mounts for the stabs.

For those interested in a Matias 87, there's an IC running now for a backlit one with aluminum case option.  We've suggested including a non-backlit option, to make it more attractive to those for which keyboards are already sufficient bright.  :-)

Excellent news 

Okay, I got it working.  See attached photos...  :-)


(Attachment Link)

Nice and simple.  Why the different spacing on the alps/Matias stabilizers?  If the caps use the same spacing as mx switches, couldn't you just use the same wider spacing?

The mounting plate clips need to be in exactly the right spot for Cherry -- otherwise the balance bar will not stay centred.

For ALPS, the clips can be anywhere there's room, since the ALPS balance bar is held centred by the keycap.

In theory, it should be possible to consolidate the two to both use the Cherry clips, but that will come later.  This is just a proof of concept -- a successful one!   

[geniekid]

GON says we need 50+ orders for an Alps NerD60 PCB.  Should we put up some Google form to record interest?

[CPTBadAss]

I'm interested in a 60% or 75%

[ComradeSniper]

GON says we need 50+ orders for an Alps NerD60 PCB.  Should we put up some Google form to record interest?

Sounds good to me 

[nubbinator]

GON says we need 50+ orders for an Alps NerD60 PCB.  Should we put up some Google form to record interest?

Sounds good to me 

Do it.  Depending on price, I'd be in for 2-3 with plates.

[geniekid]

I don't mind making the form but I don't want to step on any toes.  This was dante's OP after all.

[dante]

I don't mind making the form but I don't want to step on any toes.  This was dante's OP after all.

You can go ahead and make a form

It sounds like everyone wants a 3rd 60% Alps entry - who am I to argue with the majority?

[geniekid]

Well I will ask in the form whether people are interested in TKL, 60%, or Mini.  I think demand for TKL might be a little low with the 12 Kingsavers Elton sold over the last few months but we will see! 

I'll probably also ask whether there's interest in PCB or plate+PCB+case.  GON said as long as there's 50 PCBs between those options he'll try to make it happen which I assume means they will be compatible with the existing NerD cases and whatever those layouts are compatible with.

As always it's striking a balance between too many options vs focusing on meeting MOQ.  I will think about what should be on the form and get one up by tomorrow.

[geniekid]

Interest check form is here.

Some things to note:

• Estimated prices come via Gon's website for the corresponding MX versions.
• Responses are public.
• User name is not required.

Hopefully when Dante sees this we can update the OP

[nubbinator]

Since it's Alps, plates will be necessary.  The form should be plate+PCB or PCB+case since Gon has the plate integrated into his case design.

[geniekid]

Since it's Alps, plates will be necessary.  The form should be plate+PCB or PCB+case since Gon has the plate integrated into his case design.

I struggled a bit with this since I know at least one person who wants to make his own plate, but I think you're right - the vast majority of people who would want a PCB without a GON case would probably want a plate.  I am editing the form right now.

[geniekid]

Alright - the form has been edited.  I will PM GON to get a better idea on prices and make sure this is doable although he is usually very accommodating when it comes to things like this

[geniekid]

I have information to share!

60%

• PCBs have a MOQ of 50 @ $55
• Plates in aluminum or polycarbonate have a combined MOQ of 20 @ $45
• Housing doesn't have a MOQ and will cost $186

TKL

• PCBs have a MOQ of 50 @ $60
• Plates in aluminum or polycarbonate have a combined MOQ of 20 @ $50 (estimated)
• Housing doesn't have a MOQ and will cost $201

So the estimated prices are pretty much on point.  It also looks like we will almost certainly be able to offer PCB-only options for those who want to design their own plate.

GON also mentioned that if there's enough demand he can prep the boards for the Bluetooth module he's offering.  The module can be added at any time regardless but without the prep there will have to be more soldering later on.  I don't think this is something we need to consider until the GB phase (if we ever get there).

Finally, I asked about MX/Alps hybrid PCBs but GON stated he will not produce them due to design and aesthetic compromises.  I respect his decisions as a designer and will not push him further on this point even though I realize it would make reaching MOQ easier.

[nubbinator]

Are the plates anodized or do prices go down as number increases?  I'm asking since Imsto anodized plates were $25 + shipping.  $45 just seems high if they're bare plates without any price breaks.  I get the economies of scale thing, but it seems high.  If there are no price breaks, if someone releases a file, I'm sure I could get a few made by my cousin for much cheaper.

Also, stupid question, his PCB is Poker/Pure case compatible, right?

[geniekid]

His plates are milled - you can see some of the results here.  It's a bit of overkill IMHO, but they are extremely nice.  I assume the aluminum ones will be anodized but I am waiting to hear back from him on that (it's 2:30AM over in Korea atm so it might be awhile).

Right now I'm actually more worried that there's not enough interest for a single layout, but I will update the form to reflect that PCB+plate may be cheaper.

I was able to find this which strongly suggests that an Alps NerD60 would be compatible with Poker/Pure cases.  If we get enough interest to move into GB I will make sure it is so.

[geniekid]

Just got this from GON:

Just anodizing does not increase the cost so high.
Color choice will be available for about 5 colors(the most popular colors they choose)
My plate is not cheap laser cut ones.
http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/163-thickbox_default/universal-frameplate-for-60.jpg

If they don't want high quality but cheap laser-cut, another member can make the plates.


The second one is, Housing does have MOQ because I have to spend my time and money on designing and sampling the housing.
But MOQ is not high because I can adapt much from existing NerD 60 housing. So I think the MOQ of 5 will be enough.


And for TKL... To make a plate for a specific housing, I need the dimension of the housing inside for fitting the plate.
But the design owner might not give it because it's also his own property. And I do agree with it.

But I can make a NS NerD TKL for ALPs. MOQ will be the same = 5+


Pricing I gave you is not a new pricing but from my website. I sell the items at those price.
MOQ is just for "time and effort for developing new items."


They can choose cheap items from China, or can choose high quality items from Korea. It's up to their decision.

[dante]

Interest check form is here.

Some things to note:

• Estimated prices come via Gon's website for the corresponding MX versions.
• Responses are public.
• User name is not required.

Hopefully when Dante sees this we can update the OP

Added to OP; but it is requesting user to login to Gmail account.

[nubbinator]

I guess that makes sense, but I wouldn't bash the laser or waterjet cut as much lower quality.  The price just seemed high based on other plates I've seen.

If someone designs a plate, I can look into milled, waterjet, or laser cutting with my cousin and see if there might be a cheaper plate option for those that want one.

[geniekid]

Interest check form is here.

Some things to note:

• Estimated prices come via Gon's website for the corresponding MX versions.
• Responses are public.
• User name is not required.

Hopefully when Dante sees this we can update the OP

Added to OP; but it is requesting user to login to Gmail account.

Should be fixed.  I had to disable "Only allow one response per user".  So...nobody abuse the system I guess

[pasph]

The supported layouts will be the same as NS NerD TKL for MX (ISO included)?

[kitsun8]

There will be so many GONs soon )

[Tiramisuu]

I'm definitely in for 1 pcb+plate.. likely 2, as if I do one in pink I can be forgiven by she that must be obeyed.

[Elrick]

There will be so many GONs soon )

VERY interested in buying 2 - TKL's if it has GON involved.  PLUS getting Matias switches would be the ultimate, not that I hate Cherry's anymore, just would like some variety.

[geniekid]

I asked GON if we can expect the PCB to be basically the same as the MX version.  That should answer our questions about ISO compatibility and case compatibility.

[dante]

There will be so many GONs soon )

VERY interested in buying 2 - TKL's if it has GON involved.  PLUS getting Matias switches would be the ultimate, not that I hate Cherry's anymore, just would like some variety.

I'm down for 2 TKL's as well.

[Hak Foo]

I'd honestly be more interested if it were full-size or 110 percent.  This feels like it's sort of "in the middle" between the Matias 60% project and the GH122.