Advantages of TKL

[JDorfler]

Hey folks,

Being new to the board I was just curious about the love of TKL and other small form factor boards.  Personally I use the number pad a lot.  I'd probably be lost without it.  Even on my laptop I made sure it had a number pad. 

So, the question I have, what would make someone prefer not to have a full number pad?  I know I need one, but obviously if everyone needed a number pad, TKL wouldn't be on the market.

Thank you in advance.

[Hypersphere]

If you use the numeric keypad in preference to the number keys in the main typing area, then a TKL or smaller keyboard is probably not for you. However, there are some TKL and other compact keyboards that have embedded numeric keypads.

Many people prefer TKL or smaller keyboards for the symmetry and/or ergonomics of having the mouse closer to the centerline of the body. There is also an elegance of design in a 60% keyboard such as the HHKB Pro 2. However, if you need a numeric keypad, you would probably want to use a full-size keyboard.

[Tactile]

I have a CM QFR & I like it a lot. The small size is just one factor. When I want to use a numeric keypad I just.. you know.. plug in a numeric keypad. That lets me put the numeric keypad just where I want it without moving the keyboard. Having the numeric keypad glued to the end of the keyboard is much worse than having them disconnected and independent. There are gobs of standalone numeric keypads for sale on Ebay & elsewhere.

[Pemdas]

I bought a numpad when I got my first %60 keyboard because I couldn't live without one. Over time as I used my smaller boards I learned how to use the number row keys and my overall typing speed has increased when any numbers are present.

Now when I look at full size keyboards I just see a bunch of wasted space where the numpad is.  I have very little desk space as it is so getting rid of the un-needed keys is great for me.  That and the portability of TKL/60% is a godsend when you Lan as much as I do.

Oh that and the looks. I love of my look of my %60 boards 

[JDorfler]

Looking at a lot the pictures here with ya'll's planks, I see some of you don't have F-Keys either.  I suppose I am too much of a Linux CLI geek to give up any of my keys so I can be a true keyboard ninja.

However, I'm glad you guys are posting your reasons.  I see the validity of them as you don't need the extra keys.  With that said, I don't see myself giving up my full board anytime soon.  Call me crazy, but I need them keys.

Though I did give up my Menu key so it can act as a Function key.

Thanks again for posting.

[Pemdas]

They have %75 boards that are pretty much everything except the numpad. THe only one I can think of is the Noppoo Choc Mini 2M. It's pretty much a %60 but with function keys/arrow keys/and a couple extra modifier keys I think.

Might be easier to transition for you if you're interested.

[bazemk1979]

1 advantage, saves space, I always prefer full boards of its looks and being able to show off the keycap goodies

[pksk]

I adore the numpad, though I haven't owned a keyboard with one in a long time (just used them at work). Usually I get a super cheap, compact membrane keyboard without it, but now that I actually care about my next board and have plenty of desk space, a numpad is a must for me.

There's a certain charm to having a separate island with numbers on and just switching over to that when I feel like it. There's always the number row as backup anyhow. I don't think there's a right and wrong- just your preference, and mine is numpad all the way!

[Gunni]

I have no real need for the numpad, I just use the numbers at the top. I just prefer the look of a board without a numpad. A regular sized board now looks strange to me and sort of a waste of space, I love when there's nothing on the keyboard other than the keys themselves. I don't see myself buying anything other than 60% and TKL boards now!

[divito]

The only real advantage of TKL is that if you don't use the Num Pad, you gain some desk real estate.

In describing my own ideal board, someone suggested that it sounded exactly like the Cooler Master TK, and that basically gives you full-size capability, in near-TKL size. Some will lament the non-standard keys, but there are decent enough options around here to support such variations.

[Veridis]

I've just changed to the TKL format, and is much more comfortable to use with a mouse, even if you have a lot of desk space. I'm a small guy and not having to spread my hands so far out is really comfortable.
Just imagine having your mouse hand 2inches closer to the center 

[Oobly]

The only real advantage of TKL is that if you don't use the Num Pad, you gain some desk real estate.

In describing my own ideal board, someone suggested that it sounded exactly like the Cooler Master TK, and that basically gives you full-size capability, in near-TKL size. Some will lament the non-standard keys, but there are decent enough options around here to support such variations.

I disagree. There are definite ergonomic benefits, too. It allows the mouse to be closer to the main typing area and it allows the main typing area to be more central to the display. Both of these are big improvements to a desktop setup.

[whentheclouds]

^ precisely. hence the ideal set up is a 60% or 75% with a standalone numpad to its left

[Crazyhendrix]

Not having to reach over to the next room for the mouse helps my right shoulder. I don't know why the pain went away, but it did. Other than that, I use the numpad only for certain applications which I use once or twice every month---does not justify having a full size keyboard.

When ever i have need for the numpad, I'd just plug in my $10 rubber dome keyboard.

[AndrePews]

Narrow shoulders so 60% or it'll be impossible for me to game comfortably!

I even had to re-bind my movement keys to YGHJ to have enough mouse space and have my shoulders happy ._.

[divito]

I disagree. There are definite ergonomic benefits, too. It allows the mouse to be closer to the main typing area and it allows the main typing area to be more central to the display. Both of these are big improvements to a desktop setup.

I suppose that's true to an extent. Though I have broad shoulders, so my right arm has to brought inwards for typing, but potential Num Pad usage, and general computing/FPS gaming allow for my arms to be parallel and more ergonomic. Moving from my full-size Das to my QFS and Keycool 87 didn't really result in much difference in my specific circumstance.

[Karura]

TKL is purely for ergonomics, if you need to have your hands on the keyboard (WASD) and mouse at the same time for gaming. It is absolutely crucial IMO.

TKL is also the smallest keyboard you can get without losing keys of each type, since the numpad numbers are already in your number row. Can't say the same about 60%, which requires Fn for Function, directional keys, etc.

All in all, I feel TKL is the best inbetween, and will workout for most people.

[Arcoril]

Function layers mean that you can have the best of both worlds. Even on my TKL boards I map 1-0 and -/= to F1-F12. It's just easier to hit them there than it is to reach up and hit the dedicated keys. People don't seem to mind that there's no dedicated key for symbols like !@#$%, so once you start to think of other keys in the same way you can easily get by with a 60% board.

As far as a numpad goes, I have a dedicated separate USB numpad that I keep on the other side of my mouse. I use the mouse more than I use the numpad, so arranging things that way means that I minimize my arm travel. It's really pretty comfortable.

[whentheclouds]

function row is essential for playing games with tons of keybinds, like a MOBA or maybe an MMORPG. having FN on the right hand side would also make it impossible for those with small hands to execute key combinations like Alt+F4 (i really hate taking my right hand off the mouse when not typing)

[Arcoril]

function row is essential for playing games with tons of keybinds, like a MOBA or maybe an MMORPG. having FN on the right hand side would also make it impossible for those with small hands to execute key combinations like Alt+F4 (i really hate taking my right hand off the mouse when not typing)

Actually, I remapped caps lock to be FN. Caps lock rarely gets used and it occupies prime real estate on the keyboard. So using that as an FN key makes a lot of sense to me. Toggling caps lock is now caps lock + tab for me.

[ConscienceDrop]

Once you learn the fn layer on a 60%  it's just as fast as a TKL. Let's be real, people don't complain about symbols being hidden under number row and you wouldn't want them on an extra row of dedicated keys.

If you need a number pad then that it's a totally legitimate criticism. But you can always add a stand alone number pad. And that it's still more ergonomic.


60% is love, 60% is life

[whentheclouds]

Actually, I remapped caps lock to be FN. Caps lock rarely gets used and it occupies prime real estate on the keyboard. So using that as an FN key makes a lot of sense to me. Toggling caps lock is now caps lock + tab for me.

makes sense. i avoided the caps lock button my whole life so now my brain is allergic to that particular position. tried swapping Ctrl with Caps once and failed miserably because of this. how do you deal with the lack of the navigation cluster though?

[Karura]

Once you learn the fn layer on a 60%  it's just as fast as a TKL. Let's be real, people don't complain about symbols being hidden under number row and you wouldn't want them on an extra row of dedicated keys.

If you need a number pad then that it's a totally legitimate criticism. But you can always add a stand alone number pad. And that it's still more ergonomic.


60% is love, 60% is life

Maybe for typing it's fine, but not for gaming. Gaming (MMO, RTS, MOBA) requires number rows and Function rows for different control-groups or skills, there is just no way around it for the keys. A split second (taken to press an extra Fn key) later can be the difference between success and failure.

[whentheclouds]

i don't know about RTS or MMORPG, but in MOBAs plenty of pros assign items to modifier+key. the extra press isn't a big deal if you're already used to it, but otherwise the readjustment period would be brutal

[Sov]

For me, the huge advantage for TKL and smaller (in this case for my HHKB) is just that I much prefer how it allows me to keep my mouse and keyboard closer together, which gives me a more comfortable position with my setup.  The lack of a number pad took maybe a day of adjustment, after which I've never really noticed its absence.  From a few posts you've made in this thread I'd imagine you might be happy with a TKL, but nothing much smaller if function keys are so important. 

[Oobly]

Once you learn the fn layer on a 60%  it's just as fast as a TKL. Let's be real, people don't complain about symbols being hidden under number row and you wouldn't want them on an extra row of dedicated keys.

If you need a number pad then that it's a totally legitimate criticism. But you can always add a stand alone number pad. And that it's still more ergonomic.


60% is love, 60% is life

The biggest difference between 60% and TKL in my use case is the arrows and edit keys. Having ingrained in my muscle memory from many years of coding exactly where the arrows are and how I use them in combination with Shift, Home and End to edit text really fast is so hard to adjust to on a 60% with a Fn layer.

There has not yet been a 60% Fn layer design that I've seen that I would be able to use as fast as the dedicated ones on a TKL and that makes a big difference when most of the day you're editing code. The KBT Pure has a great Fn layer layout and I'm used to it enough to function in my daily work with it, but it's still nowhere near the speed I can get on a TKL, unfortunately.

Still, I use the Pure at work since the other benefits of 60% outweigh the speed hit.

IMHO, gaming on a 60% is great, since it forces you to rather bind keys closer to your finger home position, sometimes in combination with a modifier and I have found that to be faster than using F keys (once you get used to the bindings).

[Arcoril]

Once you learn the fn layer on a 60%  it's just as fast as a TKL. Let's be real, people don't complain about symbols being hidden under number row and you wouldn't want them on an extra row of dedicated keys.

If you need a number pad then that it's a totally legitimate criticism. But you can always add a stand alone number pad. And that it's still more ergonomic.


60% is love, 60% is life

The biggest difference between 60% and TKL in my use case is the arrows and edit keys. Having ingrained in my muscle memory from many years of coding exactly where the arrows are and how I use them in combination with Shift, Home and End to edit text really fast is so hard to adjust to on a 60% with a Fn layer.

There has not yet been a 60% Fn layer design that I've seen that I would be able to use as fast as the dedicated ones on a TKL and that makes a big difference when most of the day you're editing code. The KBT Pure has a great Fn layer layout and I'm used to it enough to function in my daily work with it, but it's still nowhere near the speed I can get on a TKL, unfortunately.

Still, I use the Pure at work since the other benefits of 60% outweigh the speed hit.

IMHO, gaming on a 60% is great, since it forces you to rather bind keys closer to your finger home position, sometimes in combination with a modifier and I have found that to be faster than using F keys (once you get used to the bindings).

Full programmability is the key.

I have a Quickfire Rapid with a Frosty Flake controller that I program via Easy AVR. I essentially treat it as a 60% board to train myself for my future GH60. Since it allows full programmability, I use caps lock as the FN key for quick access. HJKL are my arrow keys to emulate what I'm used to in Vim. QWE and ASD correspond to the top and bottom rows of the insert/delete island of keys. Escape is within reach via caps lock + spacebar (I use this a lot in Vim) and I've even set up redundant enter and backspace mappings to caps lock + G and caps lock + R respectively. This allows me to input virtually all the editing functions I'll need to perform while my right hand is on the mouse without having to move my right hand back to the keyboard to hit backspace or enter.

I realize that this layout probably only makes sense to me, but that's the beauty of a fully programmable board since anyone can find what works for them with some experimentation. Using a TKL board was essentially a set of training wheels for me. I wasn't sure if I would be able to live with a 60% layout, but I've gotten to the point where I never use anything except those keys now. I'm ready to take the plunge as soon as I can get my hands on a GH60.

[JaccoW]

The biggest difference between 60% and TKL in my use case is the arrows and edit keys. Having ingrained in my muscle memory from many years of coding exactly where the arrows are and how I use them in combination with Shift, Home and End to edit text really fast is so hard to adjust to on a 60% with a Fn layer.

There has not yet been a 60% Fn layer design that I've seen that I would be able to use as fast as the dedicated ones on a TKL and that makes a big difference when most of the day you're editing code. The KBT Pure has a great Fn layer layout and I'm used to it enough to function in my daily work with it, but it's still nowhere near the speed I can get on a TKL, unfortunately.

The one that came closest for me was the FC660M with the Fn key under the left windows key. But I use the F-key shortcuts too much at home to really switch to 60%.
I'm not a programmer but I do write a lot of reports and design things in MS Visio and Excel. While I do own a numpad, the only time that one comes out is when I have to crunch a lot of numbers.

At the end of the day I would say that TKL is the ideal non-fullsize layout for anyone coming into the mech keyboard game as there are definitely a lot of ergonomic advantages with it.
If you hardly ever use the arrow or F-keys you can switch around and move on to smaller layouts.

I'd love to try something like an FC660M with F-row or perhaps the Lightsaver.

[dusan]

Being new to the board I was just curious about the love of TKL and other small form factor boards.  Personally I use the number pad a lot.  I'd probably be lost without it.  Even on my laptop I made sure it had a number pad. 

As you're a number pad user, you may want to have a look and give a comment at
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64246.0

Thank you.

[dimamantra]

Are you an accountant? Do you spend a lot of your time inputting data into excel? No?

Then you don't need a ten key attached to your keyboard. Save yourself some space on your desk.

[YoJinBro]

One more advantage to having a TKL is that it fits much easier in a bag or backpack. A full size keyboard is just long enough to make it awkward to stuff in most backpacks, whereas a TKL fits easier. Of course, this isn't relevant if you don't move your keyboard around, but for commuters who take a keyboard to and from work or gamers who take their setup with them, it makes a difference.

[Lurch]

Desk real estate.

[Hypersphere]

I prefer the symmetry and size of a 60% keyboard over any other form factor. When I rotate to a TKL, such as my IBM SSK or RF 87ub 55g, I like the typing sound and feel, but I realize that I am really not using the F-key row or the navigation island. However, I use my RF 87ub 55g more than any of my other keyboards, because at least TKL is more compact than full size, and the sound and feel of the 55g Topre switches is superb.