Here's my question then, if God is not of our creation, but we a creation of God, how do we have the audacity to try to rationalize our behavior by our standards?
you could put this question a few different ways, for instance:
-how do we have the irresponsibility NOT to take accountability for our own actions?
-how do we have the audacity to assume we know god's will and god's history? And supposedly found it neatly written up in one perfect book to end all books?
Talk about audacity.
-why do you assume god would not want you to use the god-given powers of observation and judgement that He gave you?
Remember this allegory? -- A guy lives in a village and one day there is a great flood and the river overflows its banks and everything is flooded in the village. He climbs up on top of the roof of his house as the water levels rise. Rescue teams start appearing to help people. First a boat comes by, and the rescuers ask the guy to get in the boat since the water is going to continue to rise. He refuses. "God will save me!" he says. So eventually they leave because others need help. A helicopter comes by, they throw down a rope ladder. He refuses. "God will save me!". Later, a big piece of wood like a raft floats by, he could jump onto it if he wanted, but he says, no, "god will save me!".
The water rises, he drowns.
He meets god. "Why didnt' you save me?!" he asks. God says, "I sent you a boat, a helicopter, and a raft -- what the **** more did you want me to do?!!!!"
Your argument here is a little like this guy in the story. Why do you assume that intellect, observation, and the kinds of knowledge men can make, are inadmissable or illegitimate in god's world?
And if you admit them as valid but incomplete, why do you have the audacity
to assume you "know" what completes it?
So who's being irresponsible now?
If God were of the latter type, why would there be a limited time of existence on earth?
what does that have to do with anything? Oh, I see, you're basically drawing on the original sin idea, which according to augustine is the root cause of human mortality itself.
well, since I dont buy augustinian theology, I guess I dont buy that connection between sin and mortality. We are mortal because our biological systems break down over time like everything else in the universe. If you want ultimate answers, I'm okay with not having them or with being content with what material knowledge can provide and not having the audacity or irresponsibility of claiming to know anything beyond that.
As for men and sin, no not all men are evil, it depends on your upbringing and environment, but nor do we need to be "perfectly" good to have a functioning society (the idea that we do, is another unwarranted blanket assumption from christian theology). Imperfect beings are perfectly capable of creating systems
of checks and balances and thus a functioning society with a functioning judicial system (it need not be perfect; it only needs to be sufficient).
Thus even two 'murderers' (as you put it -- interesting that you can only make your case by taking extreme examples of sin, as if everyone was a murderer or as if everyone would become murderers without (your) god's law), so yes even two 'murderers' are capable of policing each other and keeping each other from 'murdering' in a system of checks and balances. Not that I accept your premise that we would all turn suddenly into inveterate 'murderers' if it wasnt for gods law (hell, 'gods law' has turned more people into murderers than anything else in the 1800 years when it reigned over european society).
And so yes, i'm okay with there being functioning justice system and I'm not looking for a "perfect" one. I'm not that "audacious", to use your word.