Filco keyboards - normal for matte key finish to start wearing after 1 month?

[Special K]

I did a search and found a few isolated posts commenting on this issue, but I figured I'd try to gather a number of responses into a single thread.  Is it normal for the matte texture coating/finish on Filco keyboards' keys to start wearing off after a month of typical use?  I was quite disappointed to find yesterday morning that the S key on my 1-month old FKBN104MC/EB already has a little spot in the center of it where the special coating seems to have worn off.  I'm an FPS gamer and use WASD extensively so I'm not surprised the S key went first, but I just figured it wouldn't happen so soon.  The fact that it is only occurring on the S key right now and not WAD or any other home row keys makes me wonder if there was something on the tip of my left ring finger that might have accelerated the process?

Now that I take a closer look, I'm starting to notice a similar spot on the right side of the spacebar.

In every other respect I have to say it's an excellent keyboard, however.

[AndrewZorn]

[wellington1869]

Is it normal for the matte texture coating/finish on Filco keyboards' keys to start wearing off after a month of typical use?  I was quite disappointed to find yesterday morning that the S key on my 1-month old FKBN104MC/EB already has a little spot in the center of it where the special coating seems to have worn off.  

...

Now that I take a closer look, I'm starting to notice a similar spot on the right side of the spacebar.

dont worry, the cavalry (ripster + itlnstln?) will arrive in a moment. All concerns will be soothed away with cooing noises. If that doesnt work we can expect bigger guns to arrive.

This is the topic-that-must-not-be-mentioned, apparently. Yikes, what have you unleashed? xD

[itlnstln]

Yes.  Filco keys get shiny quite quickly; for me, I start seeing signs of wear in about 2-3 weeks.  It seems to be a combination of softer ABS plastic and the already smooth surface.  That said, the lettering will not wear off in the process.  The printing method used on the lettering is uber-strong.

[Special K]

Yes.  Filco keys get shiny quite quickly; for me, I start seeing signs of wear in about 2-3 weeks.  It seems to be a combination of softer ABS plastic and the already smooth surface.  That said, the lettering will not wear off in the process.  The printing method used on the lettering is uber-strong.

Yeah, the lettering still looks fine, it's just the finish that seems to be wearing off.

On a related note, is it OK if I clean the keys by misting a microfiber cloth with some distilled water (same as I use for my LCDs)?  Will the water cause the letters to fade faster?

[ironcoder]

I will be pretty unhappy if this happens on mine, I agree it looks bad.

I think some people have more acid in their sweat than others and this can affect it. I think they should use a plastic that's resistant to that, it's not an excuse but maybe an explanation.

I wash my hands before working on the keyboard and I try to keep them clean throughout the day. There are alot of variables, do you smoke while you type, do you eat, drink, etc.  Just some things to think about. Also do you clean the keys? I used to use Windex on everything, IBM keyboards always stood up to it but my POS brand-X keyboards sometimes didn't look so great. I always prefer white but even those can be affected, although it looks worse on black for some reason.

Edit: you're already ahead of me, microfiber and water sounds about as gentle as you can get. I can't imagine that causing a problem. Sounds like you take good care of your equipment.

[majestouch]

Yea, this is a downside of coatings. I posted pics of my 4 year old Majestouch earlier this year that shows wearing on many keys (one of the photos is in the key wiki here). The speed at which it wears seems to vary quite a bit. I've seen boards that are a year old with little or no wear, and I've seen boards after a month with the wear you describe. There are many variables contributing to it, oils on your fingers, the pH of your perspiration, your fingernails, your skin, and anything you might have on your fingers as well.

I've talked to Diatec about options available, but we haven't come to a solution yet. Non-coated keys are an option that I'm working on, but I don't know if it will be standard or an accessory like the blank keycaps we already carry. The Zero boards have non-coated keys, it'd be interesting to compare wear to a Majestouch after the same amount of usage by the same person.

[ironcoder]

The Zero boards have non-coated keys, it'd be interesting to compare wear to a Majestouch after the same amount of usage by the same person.

I'm sure numerous forum members will be happy to do the testing for you on some new keyboards :lol:

[AndrewZorn]

yeah, i wish they just left the coating off completely... looks/feels good for a month?

i will either get the blank keycap set (expensive to me) or take each key off and buff the finish away (if that is practical)

so to clarify, does it leave a 'hole' in the 'film' that you can distinctly see, or is it just more shiny at the spot?  some shininess i can live with, but if it looks like a badly waxed apple, that would be bad.

[itlnstln]

Yea, this is a downside of coatings. I posted pics of my 4 year old Majestouch earlier this year that shows wearing on many keys (one of the photos is in the key wiki here). The speed at which it wears seems to vary quite a bit. I've seen boards that are a year old with little or no wear, and I've seen boards after a month with the wear you describe. There are many variables contributing to it, oils on your fingers, the pH of your perspiration, your fingernails, your skin, and anything you might have on your fingers as well.
 
I've talked to Diatec about options available, but we haven't come to a solution yet. Non-coated keys are an option that I'm working on, but I don't know if it will be standard or an accessory like the blank keycaps we already carry. The Zero boards have non-coated keys, it'd be interesting to compare wear to a Majestouch after the same amount of usage by the same person.

It's the plastic that goes shiny.  I have the uncoated blank caps, and they are already getting pretty shiny.  Costar would need to switch plastics (like POM, for example) if they want to improve the caps.
 
Special K, I clean mine with Lysol wipes, so a microfiber cloth and distilled water should be OK
 
Ironcoder, prepare to be unhappy.

[Special K]

yeah, i wish they just left the coating off completely... looks/feels good for a month?

i will either get the blank keycap set (expensive to me) or take each key off and buff the finish away (if that is practical)

so to clarify, does it leave a 'hole' in the 'film' that you can distinctly see, or is it just more shiny at the spot?  some shininess i can live with, but if it looks like a badly waxed apple, that would be bad.

Here are some pics:





As you can see, the S key has a faded spot in the middle, while the A key does not.  Obviously the lighting will affect how pronounced the spot looks, so I tried to take a picture in which light from the sun was not reflecting off of the worn spot.

Also, is this coating unique to Filco keyboards?  When people talk about a keyboard's keys becoming shiny, is this what they are talking about?  I bought a black used AT101W and the spacebar has a large shiny spot on it, but I didn't know if AT101W keys had that special matte finish on them to begin with.  Some people are talking about the blank keys going shiny, but I thought the blank keys didn't have the matte finish on them to begin with.  Does "going shiny" = matte finish wearing off, or am I referring to two separate things?

[AndrewZorn]

well see, that's what i feared it would look like.  if the key just got shiny fast from friction making the surface smoother, then fine.  cheap, but still fine.  this makes me want to research some chemical bath to dunk all the keys in to just remove ALL the finish all at once.

this looks like someone spayed clear coat spraypaint on the keys or something.

[itlnstln]

well see, that's what i feared it would look like. if the key just got shiny fast from friction making the surface smoother, then fine. cheap, but still fine. this makes me want to research some chemical bath to dunk all the keys in to just remove ALL the finish all at once.
 
this looks like someone spayed clear coat spraypaint on the keys or something.

 
See my post above.  It's not only the coating that rubs off, the plastic goes smooth as well.

[Special K]

See my post above.  It's not only the coating that rubs off, the plastic goes smooth as well.

So from looking at my photos, is it only my coating that wore off, or did my plastic go smooth as well?  I guess your post answers my question about what it means for a key to become shiny.

[AndrewZorn]

See my post above.  It's not only the coating that rubs off, the plastic goes smooth as well.

right, i understand

if the key just got shiny fast from friction

i could deal with "cheap keycaps, looks like an old keyboard faster" deal.  but "coating on keycaps, makes it look like a spraypainted keyboard" is pretty disappointing.

[itlnstln]

The coating comes off pretty quick, though, I never had a "spraypainted" look on mine.  They went shiny evenly.

[CX23882]

I know I'm being picky, but I dislike shiny keys. I was going to order a Filco with Cherry browns, but now I'm no so sure. My current G80-3000 is over a year old and still holding up well with no perceivable key wear. The Logitech at work became shiny after a couple of weeks!

[AndrewZorn]

it just seems like it's going to be gone quickly anyway, so why bother?

those shiny keys, are they from the g81-1800?

[patrickgeekhack]

dont worry, the cavalry (ripster + itlnstln?) will arrive in a moment. All concerns will be soothed away with cooing noises. If that doesnt work we can expect bigger guns to arrive.

This is the topic-that-must-not-be-mentioned, apparently. Yikes, what have you unleashed? xD

That was a very good comment Welly :-)

[AndrewZorn]

The shiny ESC key came from here.

I think Filco probably needs to do it for competitive pressures too. I think Logitech, Microsoft and others go the "Secret Sauce" route.

The final factor is just the design decision they made to go with a Matte finish vs Sandpaper (IBM) or Velvet (Topre) or Grainy (Unicomp and CherryCorp).  The simple fact is plastic wears down and the less texture the quicker it'll get shiny.

i meant the coating.  the coating just seems like its only purpose is to look good in internet pictures, and feel good throughout the "return period".  they make the blank key set on elite sound inferior for no coating, but it sounds like the way it should have been all along.

[ch_123]

Is it just me, or have the quality "issues" of the Filco been blown out of all proportion as of late?

[AndrewZorn]

probably, watch, the problem may never even happen to me...

but it doesnt change the fact that over at diatec they are giving keys... the part that your fingers touch all the time... a 'paint job' that is almost guaranteed to wear off quickly.  it makes no sense.
"matte finish" plastic as a preference is fine, the side effect being that it wears, fine... but at least it has a reason and an upside.

its like paying a shaman to grant powers to keyboards before they leave the door.  just seems like a waste of everyone's time.

talking about 'cutting costs', for the consumer OR manufacturer, why not cut THIS?  or do different caps entirely.  or something.

EDIT why is the world so against shiny-to-start-with keys?  does it look THAT bad to some people?  is there only a LOSS in tactility/feel?  come on...

[maxlugar]

i meant the coating.  the coating just seems like its only purpose is to look good in internet pictures, and feel good throughout the "return period".  they make the blank key set on elite sound inferior for no coating, but it sounds like the way it should have been all along.

I disagree. I rather like the matte texture on the Filcos.  It distinguishes the Filcos from other keyboards.   I've only had my Filcos for several weeks so I haven't notice any key cap wear yet.  I also make sure I wash my greasy hands before I type on my Filcos.

The texture molded in to the HHKB Pro2 and Realforce 87U key caps 12 are superior to the Filco coating becasue it will never wear off.

I was "gifted" with NIB TVS Gold keyboard from one our Indian contractors today.  Overall, I was pleasantly surprised because it uses Blue Cherry MX key switches and the assembly qualilty & key cap fit are MUCH better than the previous TVS keyboard I used.  However, I still prefer my Blue Cherry Filcos for a variety of reasons, one of those being the coated key caps.

[AndrewZorn]

having a matte texture is one thing.  but even the elitekeyboards rep admits that the COATING wears off quickly.  no matter how much you wash your hands.  so it is a short-term effect.

the topre cap texture will not ever wear 'off', because it IS the cap, but it will WEAR, and be shiny someday... but at least they use materials to avoid this.

[AndrewZorn]

what i was getting at is their effort is to reduce wear, not add to the number of things that WILL wear, so at least it is money well spent

[maxlugar]

Topre costs a bit more.  Like double.

Yeah, and the Topre switches don't even click!

[patrickgeekhack]

That was a snarky comment Patrick :-(

That was not my intention. I just found his prediction to be good. There are some people who are very active on this forum, and this is what give it a nice feeling. I've been on many forums and have never met a sense of friendship as high as here. I just sensed that sooner or later, I will see your comment on this thread.

[maxlugar]

having a matte texture is one thing.  but even the elitekeyboards rep admits that the COATING wears off quickly.  no matter how much you wash your hands.  so it is a short-term effect.

I could be wrong but I don't ever recall seeing a post by majestouch acknowledging the quick wear of the matte finish coating.

In fact, I remember seeing a post from majestouch that stated just the opposite...something like there was no noticeable key wear after a couple years of use.  I'll see if I can find that post...

[msiegel]

pluth ith you lick thehw youw touge can geth thtuck!

on a related note, my left alt key is already starting to get shiny -- this is on a filco zero. i think there's extra wear because, due to the key layout, when i press command (alt) z,x,c,v, i have to rotate my thumb... so the thumbnail ends up in contact with the keycap.

[maxlugar]

...I remember seeing a post from majestouch that stated just the opposite...something like there was no noticeable key wear after a couple years of use.  I'll see if I can find that post...

This one:  I've been using a Filco majestouch daily for 4 years and the letters look as good as the day I bought it. Where'd you hear otherwise?

Posted by majestouch two days ago.