Das Keyboard III vs FILCO

[AndrewZorn]

yeah, if it were cheaper there might be more gray area... but when it has the same premium price and bold marketing (THE BEST KEYBOARD EVER MADE... PERIOD.  EVEN THOUGH IT IS AN INFERIOR COPY.) it is hard to not suggest the filco.

[timw4mail]

I mean, it's not like the Scorpius where there's a case to be made for risking dodgy soldering to get a blue Cherry keyboard for $60.

I'd like to note that I still have not had a single issue with my Scorpius.

[Chao]

N-Key Rollover vs Logitech "Up to 6" N-Key Rollover: Gamer Edition

Lolmarketing. Fair enough.
Real question is whether the FILCO boards which are not labeled NKRO on elitekeyboards possess the described quality of restricted combinations or not.

Edit: Given that the site has direct community involvement here, I would assume not, I just like to be safe.

[ch_123]

I'd like to note that I still have not had a single issue with my Scorpius.

I know. But some people have had, even relatively recently. Compare 'risk' with 'defective design'...

[AndrewZorn]

the non NKRO filcos vary in the amount of keys they can take at once, if that is what you are asking

i got as high as 4, as low as 2.

[Chao]

Thanks. That's precisely what I was asking.

[AndrewZorn]

the non NKRO filcos vary in the amount of keys they can take at once, if that is what you are asking

i got as high as 4, as low as 2.

Thanks. That's precisely what I was asking.

which makes it 2-key rollover, to further clarify "the rules"
in other words, i could not find a 2-key combination that did not work.  there are 4 key combinations (+modifiers even, sometimes, something i think should count toward the total, especially considering the gaming implications of NKRO) that worked, but not every 4 key combination worked, so 2KRO.

[elbowglue]

I game perfectly well on non-nkro keyboards.  The main keys that I press simultaneously are AWSD, Shift, Spacebar, left control.  Typing on a NKRO keyboard also is 100% fine - as long as there is no transposition issue, typing words does not require NKRO.

I am sitting in front of my pink filco 105 key which does not have NKRO.  It can do many combinations of 4 letters at the same time, although occasionally blocks when you hit 4 letters at the same time, and only 2 letters come out.  I have gamed on this keyboard and using the AWSD, left shift, spacebar, left control, there are no issues at all of key blocking.

NKRO may be useful in some other games, but I can't think of which games would benefit from it.  I usually play CS:S, L4dD2, or warcraft / starcraft kinda games.  Long and short is you don't need NKRO to play today's games.  

(EDIT- Disclaimer, IMHO, you may not need NKRO to play the games I cited above, as it has been my experience that I play them fine with non NKRO boards.)

[ch_123]

Can't we just all get along and agree that it's a bad keyboard?

[AndrewZorn]

I game perfectly well on non-nkro keyboards.  The main keys that I press simultaneously are AWSD, Shift, Spacebar, left control.  Typing on a NKRO keyboard also is 100% fine - as long as there is no transposition issue, typing words does not require NKRO.

I am sitting in front of my pink filco 105 key which does not have NKRO.  It can do many combinations of 4 letters at the same time, although occasionally blocks when you hit 4 letters at the same time, and only 2 letters come out.  I have gamed on this keyboard and using the AWSD, left shift, spacebar, left control, there are no issues at all of key blocking.

NKRO may be useful in some other games, but I can't think of which games would benefit from it.  I usually play CS:S, L4dD2, or warcraft / starcraft kinda games.  Long and short is you don't need NKRO to play today's games.

and now that you have my brown cherry board and i have your blue cherry board, it is worth mentioning that NKRO isnt the end all be all for a GAYMEN keyboard either.  having to let the switch click UP to be able to register another downstroke consistently is a major downer for games.  good thing i still plan on using my HHKB for games, despite its perceived impropriety for them...

still love the new keyboard, adding blues to my collection which also has brown is making it that much more complete...

[Chao]

which makes it 2-key rollover, to further clarify "the rules"
in other words, i could not find a 2-key combination that did not work.  there are 4 key combinations (+modifiers even, sometimes, something i think should count toward the total, especially considering the gaming implications of NKRO) that worked, but not every 4 key combination worked, so 2KRO.

Got it and got it.

6KRO!!!   MORE DIODES!!!

Sorry to have derailed the thread from Das v. FILCO (I think the topic was well concluded anyway?) but one last question: The diode that, from what I gather, is used for NKRO is placed in the nice little nook that Cherries have optionally for an LED, correct?

[ch_123]

As far as I know, the diodes are on the circuit board itself.

[timw4mail]

for a GAYMEN keyboard

I'm very straight, thank you.

[Chao]

As far as I know, the diodes are on the circuit board itself.

Glorious. Simply glorious.

[itlnstln]

The diode that, from what I gather, is used for NKRO is placed in the nice little nook that Cherries have optionally for an LED, correct?

Some manufacturers use the slot in the switch, and others mount them elsewhere.  Ultimately, though, they are connected directly to the circuit board.

[AndrewZorn]

yeah but im sure $1 turns into $50 once you end up hiring more marketing people, redoing the box design for more zazz, increasing profits, etc... it is not as simple as $1.

[keyb_gr]

The diode that, from what I gather, is used for NKRO is placed in the nice little nook that Cherries have optionally for an LED, correct?

Depends. Seems like Filcos have the diodes seperately. I'd guess they prefer to stick with more easily available diodeless switches (the only ones commonly supplied with diode are blacks). No keyboard manufacturer would take the extra time to equip the switches with diodes.

[AndrewZorn]

Don't forget the stoopid gamers that pay the extra $50.

How much did your G9 cost again?

didnt expect me to say $20 did you
EDIT not that it isnt worth more
i liked my MX518 and all but this one is really nice
holding settings without special software (before jokes about DIP switches) is really nice in itself

i was joking (about the $50 thing), but right now they ARE getting people to pay extra for NKRO, because they can.  what i dont understand is the lack of NKRO keyboards in general... for instance, why cant you just take a 'normal' keyboard (that does not have a premium NKRO version right beside it) and diode it up, making it complete?  cherry finds a way to spend the extra few cents on POM keys, filco has the neat accessories and overall quality, but everyone forgets one really important thing.  if they just put diodes on stuff like the M10, without making two different VERSIONS, it would put the filco premium nonsense to shame.

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I told the iRocks rep that used to hang around here (before we got too obnoxious we DID have reps hang around here BTW) that he needs to have corporate make a $50 mechanical 6-Key keyboard. Do what the Taiwanese do best - undercut on price but keep the quality up.

That would have been gold, but they jacked up their $100 offering.  Granted, it was just the layout, but still.  Their Cherry brown 'board would have been a sure-buy if it weren't for that damn layout.

[ricercar]

Yeah, I told the iRocks rep that used to hang around here (before we got too obnoxious we DID have reps hang around here BTW)

iRocks Jeff gone away? Bummer. I still owe him a review of their glow-in-the-dark rubber dome.

[alpslover]

Long and short is you don't need NKRO to play today's games.

you're assuming that others play the same games, use the same key combinations, and have the same keyboards as you.

what you should have said is 'long and short is, i don't need nkro to play today's games'.

nkro isn't necessary for gaming, but it does guarantee that you'll never have to worry about key blocking because all key combinations work.

[elbowglue]

you're assuming that others play the same games, use the same key combinations, and have the same keyboards as you.

what you should have said is 'long and short is, i don't need nkro to play today's games'.

nkro isn't necessary for gaming, but it does guarantee that you'll never have to worry about key blocking because all key combinations work.

That's why I prefaced it with what games I play, what key combos I use.

Your mileage may vary, if you play different games, or if you use different key combos, or if you play at a whole different level of gaming than I do, you may find NKRO useful.

Anything I ever post is only the opinion of myself.  Any advice I give is only what I feel to be helpful to others here.

I have had NKRO filcos, non NKRO filcos, non NKRO Chicony and Dell AT101, non NKRO Cherry g86 board, a ton of rubber dome boards.  This is my prior experience.  The games I play are CS:S, TF2, Warcraft 3, starcraft, L4d2.

If you are playing other games or using other applications in the future that require multiple simltaneous keypressess, your experience may be different.

Just know that if a game maker releases a game which requires a keyboard with NKRO to play the game, the majority of the world with standard keyboards will not be able to play it well, and will probably complain.

I would also like a good example of a game that really benefits from NKRO keyboard.  Multiplayer Star Control comes to mind, but of course, that is a little on the old side.

[1839cc]

Occasionally even single player Star Control. Especially if you have to hold more than one key at a time, such as turn+thrust+shoot.

[AndrewZorn]

i mean, i tend to favor it only for "what if"s.  with as many people using gaymen boards, model Ms, etc... i cant imagine it has a huge impact on anything.  more or less a feature that i think should be the norm, something that just kind of reassures me.

even FPSs can get by fine because of the WASD placement and the modifiers not really counting towards the rollover limit.

[timw4mail]

I guess this makes the Model F the perfect keyboard for gaming too.

[Mental Hobbit]

If you are playing other games or using other applications in the future that require multiple simltaneous keypressess, your experience may be different.

Or if you're left-handed and can't use WASD without breaking your fingers.
Apparently this hasn't occurred to any manufacturer, as I haven't seen a standard keyboard that registers more that 2 keys on the numpad yet.

[AndrewZorn]

Q for smoke grenade?  Q isnt smoke grenade, it's lean, and you dont need to lean when...

oh wait...

thats right!  MW2 is a paradise for noobs, leaning was taken out, because it is too hard to do with a controller.

totally forgot.

[AndrewZorn]

the future is Halo 4: Part 3: Content Pack 2: $5.99
With the new H4P3CP2 add-on, you no longer take damage from your own grenades!  Buy now to have the gaymen ADVANTAGE!  Also unlocks two previously stashed-away-on-disc multiplayer levels.

i was thinking about the F.  i think it could work.

[itlnstln]

Plus I like Diodes. I like my electrons going only one way. This is not a sexual reference.

Exit only, right?

[timw4mail]

I find control in the place of Caps Lock to be superior for crouching. And I've yet to play a major game that has Alt as an important key.