Author Topic: "Best" scissor-switch flat keyboard? (Read 62747 times)

aerial · « **on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 11:33:32 »

I'm wondering what is best quality scissor-switch (flat) keyboard on market? I realise that mechanical keyboards are worshipped here, but you can't say that all scissor-switch keyboards are equally bad. I you were forced to get one, what model would it be?

hyperlinked · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 12:20:26 »

Quote from: ripster;179187

Too much work so I'm not gonna do that. Still waiting for all the Apple Aluminum clones to show up.

Ripster, your prayers have been answered by Saitek

salcan · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 12:49:29 »

thinkpad USB keyboard

aerial · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 13:10:27 »

Thinkpad quality has to be decent indeed. But they make only version with touchpad (awkward if you are not going to use it).

I wish there was a company that specializes in super silent top quality scissor-switch keyboards, as there are mechanical keyboard manufacturers.

How about this one:

KeySonic 5600 ALU+

Entire case is aluminium, keyboard is really heavy. But I'm affraid actual keyboard (mechanism/keycaps quality) is as bad as random logitech ultra flat ;[

TexasFlood · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 13:55:56 »

Quote from: aerial;179226

Thinkpad quality has to be decent indeed. But they make only version with touchpad (awkward if you are not going to use it).

Actually the latest version of this Lenovo keyboard dropped the touchpad, a move welcomed by many (myself included).

It was discussed extensively in a Lenovo blog. Most folks seem to either love or hate this keyboard, depending on whether they welcome a keyboard very similar to a real thinkpad keyboard or are upset to the extent that it falls short of a real thinkpad keyboard. I personally having used the version which included the touchpad, fall more into the love it camp. I didn't like the the touchpad but with that gone I think it's a pretty good option.

ch_123 · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 15:39:23 »

Chiclet keys, when done right, are quite nice. The short travel hides the mushiness of the underlying rubber dome mechanism.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 15:41:06 »

Quote from: ripster;179253

Not the greatest Amazon reviews or the Lenovo site.

Is that a true scissor switch - the specs don't say?

Based on the keyboard I tried, I liked it pretty well except for the damn touchpad that I could not disable like I have done with the one integrated into my thinkpad. I'm not going to let the bad reviews sway me that much. This is based on my own opinion that this keyboard is primarily attractive to thinkpad fans who are pretty picky about their keyboards, so the reviews are going to naturally trend towards harsh. To me it's a glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty sort of thing and I'm on the 1/2 full side. But that is my opinion, everyone should read the reviews and judge for themselves.

As for the switches, the model that included the touchpad sure felt like scissors to me, but I have no proof of that.

phoenix · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 16:02:49 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;179289

Based on the keyboard I tried, I liked it pretty well except for the damn touchpad that I could not disable like I have done with the one integrated into my thinkpad. I'm not going to let the bad reviews sway me that much. This is based on my own opinion that this keyboard is primarily attractive to thinkpad fans who are pretty picky about their keyboards, so the reviews are going to naturally trend towards harsh. To me it's a glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty sort of thing and I'm on the 1/2 full side. But that is my opinion, everyone should read the reviews and judge for themselves.

As for the switches, the model that included the touchpad sure felt like scissors to me, but I have no proof of that.

Every time I see the latest version (the one without touchpad) mentioned I jump out and say nasty things about it. In my RMA box I attached a note that said "Shame on David Hill."

It's a very good keyboard compared with most others, and I love the lack of a touch pad. It's just not up to the usual Thinkpad standards. I wish they charged $20 more and gave me acceptable quality.

hyperlinked · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 16:05:06 »

Quote from: ch_123;179288

Chiclet keys, when done right, are quite nice. The short travel hides the mushiness of the underlying rubber dome mechanism.

Want me to dig you a ditch too while I'm still working on mine?

ch_123 · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 16:12:00 »

I have absolutely no issues with standing by that. I prefer scissor switches over rubber domes for exactly the same reason, and after typing on a chiclet Mac keyboard, I'm inclined to think that I prefer chiclets over scissor switches again.

Of course, the issue here is not any superiority, just taking away more and more key travel to hide how bad they are. I'd take almost any mechanical over them any day, but they're acceptable - they don't impede typing speed, and they aren't uncomfortable to use.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 16:22:23 »

Quote from: phoenix;179296

Every time I see the latest version (the one without touchpad) mentioned I jump out and say nasty things about it. In my RMA box I attached a note that said "Shame on David Hill."

If you don't like it, you should say so. I gave my opinion, as should you. To each his own.

Quote from: phoenix;179296

It's a very good keyboard compared with most others, and I love the lack of a touch pad. It's just not up to the usual Thinkpad standards. I wish they charged $20 more and gave me acceptable quality.

I agree with all of this. Both that it's a comparatively decent keyboard and that it is sad when companies weaken their products to save a few cents. It's not just Lenovo guilty of this unfortunately.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 16:53:56 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;179248

Actually the latest version of this Lenovo keyboard dropped the touchpad, a move welcomed by many (myself included).

Show Image

It was discussed extensively in a Lenovo blog. Most folks seem to either love or hate this keyboard, depending on whether they welcome a keyboard very similar to a real thinkpad keyboard or are upset to the extent that it falls short of a real thinkpad keyboard. I personally having used the version which included the touchpad, fall more into the love it camp. I didn't like the the touchpad but with that gone I think it's a pretty good option.

Decided to "eat my own dog food" so to speak. Found the cheapest price I could on this and bought one. Will let you know how it goes.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 05 May 2010, 19:14:19 »

Found a couple more thorough reviews. One is from Ars Technica and the other from NotebookReview.com. More food for thought.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 06 May 2010, 21:45:33 »

FYI, best price I see for that keyboard -today- (not counting oddball sites I've never heard of not counting IBM/Lenovo employees) is at http://www.lenovo.com/friendsandfamily/ for $50.15, free shipping but probably tax. I don't think you need any special ID/Info to use that (sub)site but correct me if I'm wrong. Pretty sure you can just check out as guest without any credentials.

meltie · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 04:27:15 »

I'd recommend Cherry Evolution Stream and Logitech Illuminated. Even though I prefer mechanical boards, both are pretty decent and I used a Stream at work for a long time.

tamasrepus · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 07:28:54 »

I'd go with the mentioned Lenovo external ThinkPad keyboard.

That aside, I'd also check out Logitech's diNovo Edge and Illuminated Keyboard. I've the diNovo Edge for HTPC use, and its scissor switches are great for what they are. The switches in the Illuminated Keyboard are supposed to be a refinement upon the diNovo Edge.

A review of the Illuminated from my bookmarks.

jmpespxoreax · « **Reply #16 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 10:03:38 »

I will also recommend trying out the Logitech Illuminated keyboard. I've been typing with it for the last couple of days, and it's very smooth.

Also check out the Enermax Aurora, and Enermax Acrylux. They might be what you are looking for. I was going to buy the Acrylux instead of the Logitech Illuminated, but the model they had at the computer store I went to was a wireless model, and that is a no-no when it comes to peripherals.

test157 · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 11:18:49 »

if you don't need illuminated keyboard, but want the same feelings for the less price seems Keyboard K120 is the way to go. as I right understood it's also perfect stroke switch and costs about 10% of illuminated keyboard.

test157 · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 11:48:47 »

so U think the new 120 Keyboard don't use PerfectStroke?

Otterclock · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 11:59:28 »

I really like the Rosewill RK-7300. Surprisingly solid and stylish with a nice curve to it. Best grippy feet I've ever seen; can practically stick it to the wall. Also dirt cheap at $18 shipped from Newegg.

jmpespxoreax · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 12:53:19 »

Quote from: test157;179830

if you don't need illuminated keyboard, but want the same feelings for the less price seems Keyboard K120 is the way to go. as I right understood it's also perfect stroke switch and costs about 10% of illuminated keyboard.

Damn, I can't seem to find a place that sells this keyboard. I would surely exchange the Illuminated keyboard I bought for this if it uses the same keystroke tech and is a much lower price...

EDIT:

Nevermind... amazon carries it

jmpespxoreax · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 13:05:52 »

I will take my Illuminated Keyboard back if the K120 uses the same Perfectstroke tech. Saves about 70$. Damn.

I'd buy it off their site right now if I could find any mention of Perfectstroke in relation to it.

tamasrepus · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 14:57:42 »

Rant ahead...

Was just reading the product description for the Rosewill... it's advertised as "space saving" because it's low-profile.

Seriously, do people have a dearth of vertical space somehow? Rather than cut off plastic off the edges of the keyboard, or removing the numeric keypad to make a ten keyless, the idea of "space saving" is to make the keyboard shorter.

End rant.

test157 · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 15:06:19 »

anyone saw class tenkeyless scissor based board?

test157 · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 15:07:01 »

Quote from: tamasrepus;179950

Rant ahead...

Was just reading the product description for the Rosewill... it's advertised as "space saving" because it's low-profile.

Seriously, do people have a dearth of vertical space somehow? Rather than cut off plastic off the edges of the keyboard, or removing the numeric keypad to make a ten keyless, the idea of "space saving" is to make the keyboard shorter.

End rant.

heard somewhere - lower keyboard = better for hand health

jmpespxoreax · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 07 May 2010, 16:43:27 »

Quote from: ripster;179938

It's there, you just have to keep digging through the Logitech website crappy layout.

But it ain't unique. You guys are settling for the common. The average. The one that the dweeb sitting next to you in class has.

And these suggestions are ALL too damn big.

How about a M4?

Not quite scissor switch but these rubber sleeves make corner hits pretty forgiving. A review is in my sig.

The only problem with buying something off the net is that you cannot try it out first. It even sucks in stores because either they have display models that have been pounded on by everyone or the keyboard itself is locked up in a box. At least here one can make the assumption that people will critically review a keyboard - these reviews are different from retailer reviews or sites like maximumpc (or something along those lines).

I agree entirely that most keyboards are way too big. The M4 looks like it will make the "interesting" list, along with the Model M space saver. Although the thread is getting sidetracked.

I just remembered about another scissor-switch keyboard that I owned and loved before it stopped working. The older model of the Logitech Ultra flat (or UltraX) (http://strony.aster.pl/barton/hardware/Logitech_UltraX_Keyboard.jpg). I'm not sure how the newer model compares (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126022) because I've never used one.

Rajagra · « **Reply #26 on:** Sat, 08 May 2010, 01:46:05 »

Quote from: test157;179963

anyone saw class tenkeyless scissor based board?

Original Logitech diNovo is pretty good.

The layout is relatively unmangled. Insert has been moved up, print screen has moved right one place, and scroll lock is missing. The gap between function key blocks is small to allow addition of an Fn key to the right of Escape.

It can be used with one of those micro sized bluetooth dongles instead of the fugly mouse charger / bluetooth unit that it comes with. If you ever see one cheap on ebay without the bluetooth interface, it's worth grabbing.

aerial · « **Reply #27 on:** Sat, 08 May 2010, 05:33:27 »

I don't think that logitech K120 use perfectstroke. If you dig into features, it just lists all logitech keyboard features, not features of that k120 model. Using that logic you could also say that it has wave design, while it is flat.

Manyak · « **Reply #28 on:** Sat, 08 May 2010, 06:35:15 »

Quote from: ripster;179844

The Logitech Illuminated is one of the PerfectStroke keyboards with the 3.2mm travel. More than the standard 2.2mm travel. Less than the 3.5mm ALPS or normal 4mm Mechanical Switch. The only other keyboard with it is the DiNovo Edge at considerably more expense.
Show Image

In other words, it probably has better key feel.

I had a DiNovo Edge at one point. It's pretty nice for a scissor switch board, but I'll still take my thinkpad over it any day of the week.

aerial · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 08 May 2010, 09:40:48 »

And.. Comfort Wave Design: Curve + Wave + Palm Rest

I can't see wave design and palm rest, no matter how you look at K120 picture. It is just global list of features, if you click 'learn more' each of it has list of products, and for perfectstroke k120 is not there.

Also that would be way too cheap for logitech to put one of their flag gimmicks into cheapest keyboard. They would at least charge double current price.

Oqsy · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 08 May 2010, 09:45:29 »

I use perfectstroke technology every day...

Not a valid youtube URL
edit: thanks ripster, I honestly thought I tried that... oh well must have missed a [ or ] somewhere

hyperlinked · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 08 May 2010, 12:31:56 »

Quote from: ripster;180157

Secret decoder ring for Logitech Website.
...
Maybe. Or a drunk web designer.

Gaaaa! Their website totally sucks. A huge chunk of their site doesn't work at all unless you have JavaScript turned on. Usually turning off JavaScript is a quick way of getting the real links without having to resort to the decoder ring.

Quote

Tap happiness
2 million keystrokes. Every day.

That’s how much the average person types every year, according to a study by Harvard. (Dennerlein 2006)

It appears that time is a relative thing at Logitech too.

One year becomes one day... Ouch. I'd hate to work there.

odyssomay · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 12 May 2010, 11:54:24 »

I'd say the typematrix.

The layout actually works very well, the best thing being the non-staggered keys.

handyrandyrc · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 12 May 2010, 15:05:07 »

Spent 20 minutes at Staples trying all of the keyboards. Tried all of the scissor models. While I REALLY like the fact the Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Keyboard 6000 was narrow (10-key not attached), the feel was nothing like the Logitech Illuminated with the Perfectstroke keys. I couldn't believe how amazing the Logitech Illuminated was to type on.

lmnop · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 12 May 2010, 15:47:02 »

Quote from: handyrandyrc;181563

Spent 20 minutes at Staples trying all of the keyboards. Tried all of the scissor models. While I REALLY like the fact the Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Keyboard 6000 was narrow (10-key not attached), the feel was nothing like the Logitech Illuminated with the Perfectstroke keys. I couldn't believe how amazing the Logitech Illuminated was to type on.

Logitech manufactured a batch of Logitech Illuminated with a rollover problem you can't W + Shift + Spacebar I think the Spacebar blocks. I don't understand why they didn't recall them the batch must of been large because customers are still reporting the issue as of April and May of 2010 on their forums while other customers do not experience this issue. one guy on overclock forums has gone through 4 Logitech Illuminated keyboards.

lmnop · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 12 May 2010, 15:50:49 »

Quote from: handyrandyrc;181563

Spent 20 minutes at Staples trying all of the keyboards. Tried all of the scissor models. While I REALLY like the fact the Microsoft Bluetooth Mobile Keyboard 6000 was narrow (10-key not attached), the feel was nothing like the Logitech Illuminated with the Perfectstroke keys. I couldn't believe how amazing the Logitech Illuminated was to type on.

Logitech manufactured a batch of Logitech Illuminated with a rollover problem you can't W + Shift + Spacebar I think the Spacebar blocks. I don't understand why they didn't recall them the batch must of been large because customers are still reporting the issue as of April and May of 2010 on their forums while other customers do not experience this issue. one guy on overclock forums has gone through 4 Logitech Illuminated keyboards.

ch_123 · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 12 May 2010, 17:45:52 »

I'd love to give the chiclet keyboard on the Thinkpad X100 a try. It promises slightly more travel than a regular chiclet and non flat keys... It could actually be quite good.

audioave10 · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 12 May 2010, 20:46:22 »

I have the Logitech Illuminated and its OK if you don't have a heavy finger. I
popped-off a key already playing a game. It went back on fine but worried me.
This keyboard was $25 at Newegg and is supprisingly strong. I have it too.

T0fu · « **Reply #38 on:** Thu, 13 May 2010, 09:23:12 »

(: havent been here in a while !! anyways before anyone goes off to buy the illuminated i should probably warn you that its complete garbage compared to the dinovo edge. i have used both quite a bit and i think it must be said that the illuminated uses acrylicish keys to get the light through. its not the same textured plastic that you are used to, a good friend of mine has ****d his illuminated out pretty bad and its become really really slippery from his body oil polishing the keys. not only are they shiny, but you really really struggle tokeep them on cos they are pretty much flat. its enough to put me off typing that thing. oh and it has a weird clack to it as well S:

no offense just my opininion of it compared to the edge

much prefer the dinovo edge its a shame they discontinued it.

hyperlinked · « **Reply #39 on:** Thu, 13 May 2010, 09:32:20 »

Quote from: ch_123;181626

I'd love to give the chiclet keyboard on the Thinkpad X100 a try. It promises slightly more travel than a regular chiclet and non flat keys... It could actually be quite good.

I passed by one of those at a local electronics store and I gave it a try. It was a nice feeling keyboard, but I can't say I left with an overwhelming impression. It was better than average, but wasn't outstanding. There were a couple of other netbook keyboards that I tried right afterwards that I liked better. The non-flat keys is very subtle... maybe a little too subtle if flat keys really present a problem for you. Flat keys are fine by me though... not my first preference, but it's not a problem.

sendspam · « **Reply #40 on:** Wed, 19 May 2010, 14:32:17 »

Quote from: aerial;180121

I don't think that logitech K120 use perfectstroke. If you dig into features, it just lists all logitech keyboard features, not features of that k120 model. Using that logic you could also say that it has wave design, while it is flat.

I just called Logitech support and the rep said that the K120 does use PerfectStroke. I had to call because none of the stores in Canada have it (yet?) and I was unable to verify it in person. He also said that these keyboards feel the same as the diNovo Edge and are not like Dell keyboards that were loud.

As for me, I've been hunting around for the exact same keyboard and I had settled on the Enermax Aurora v1 (KB002U-B) before they were discontinued.

I don't mind having the number pad, but I've been looking for keyboards that had the Enter key in one line. The newer Enermax, the Acrylux series, doesn't cater to my needs. I came across this thread when I was researching the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard. That keyboard seemed perfect to me, but it was extremely expensive ($80-$100 retail) and I really didn't need the back-lit keys. I also didn't like the double height Delete key as I use the Insert key for my daily computing.

didjamatic · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 19 May 2010, 14:38:28 »

Someone may have mentioned it already, but Dell is shipping a scissor board with some Precision workstations, I think it may be a keyboard upgrade option. I used one for a few minutes at work and was quite impressed.

itlnstln · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 19 May 2010, 16:39:20 »

Quote from: didjamatic;184280

Someone may have mentioned it already, but Dell is shipping a scissor board with some Precision workstations, I think it may be a keyboard upgrade option. I used one for a few minutes at work and was quite impressed.

We're getting these with our laptops. For a scissor switch keyboard, they're actually pretty good. They look nice, too.

JBert · « **Reply #43 on:** Thu, 20 May 2010, 15:25:18 »

Meh, I'd rather put a HHKB or miniguru on top of that keyboard.

itlnstln · « **Reply #44 on:** Thu, 20 May 2010, 15:40:16 »

Mmm... Miniguru. Lowpoly hasn't been by in awhile. That must mean the Miniguru will be ready by the end of the week.

handyrandyrc · « **Reply #45 on:** Thu, 20 May 2010, 16:42:50 »

Interestingly enough, I found this while browsing Newegg the other day.

No photo, but Key Tronic has info on their site. It looked to be a scissor switch board, so I sent an e-mail and asked. The sales person confirmed it was a scissor switch board. I didn't ask any more than that.

lmnop · « **Reply #46 on:** Thu, 20 May 2010, 17:32:55 »

Quote from: itlnstln;184934

Mmm... Miniguru. Lowpoly hasn't been by in awhile. That must mean the Miniguru will be ready by the end of the week.

Halak will bounce back. is it ever coming out or not?

itlnstln · « **Reply #47 on:** Fri, 21 May 2010, 07:35:43 »

Halak looked pretty good last night. The Habs finally found their sticks.

itlnstln · « **Reply #48 on:** Fri, 21 May 2010, 09:38:25 »

Only if there's a sweep.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #49 on:** Fri, 21 May 2010, 17:08:45 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;179248

Actually the latest version of this Lenovo keyboard dropped the touchpad, a move welcomed by many (myself included).

Show Image

It was discussed extensively in a Lenovo blog. Most folks seem to either love or hate this keyboard, depending on whether they welcome a keyboard very similar to a real thinkpad keyboard or are upset to the extent that it falls short of a real thinkpad keyboard. I personally having used the version which included the touchpad, fall more into the love it camp. I didn't like the the touchpad but with that gone I think it's a pretty good option.

Quote from: TexasFlood;179307

Decided to "eat my own dog food" so to speak. Found the cheapest price I could on this and bought one. Will let you know how it goes.

Got the Lenovo keyboard and used it for the first time today. First impression picking it up was that it was so thin and light, seemed almost flimsy. Once I plopped it down on the flat hardwood surface of my desk though, the rubber feet stuck like glue and it now felt very solid. It's only been one partial day but so far am very happy with my purchase. Similar to my thinkpads and took me very little time to feel right at home on it. I've seen some complain about the length of the front part of the bezel but as a thinkpad user, that is just my normal wrist rest area and I was very comfortable for me.

News:

Author Topic: "Best" scissor-switch flat keyboard? (Read 62747 times)