Author Topic: Mionix Zibal 60 / Z60 gaming keyboard with backlit keys (Read 143809 times)

poros1ty · « **Reply #400 on:** Thu, 14 July 2011, 22:11:28 »

Quote from: Trueepower;380296

You sound like you are happy with the Mionix, which is a good thing. As for my vision, you can ask Noodles what he thought about the back lighting.... so apparently I am not the only "blind" person on these boards. As for the "ping" it was noticeable, but that doesn't mean it will exist on every board. As for my motives, I am merely a customer looking for a quality product. You however, took my review personal ... and appear to have an interest in Mionix's reputation. I don't doubt that Mionix makes some good mice, and the Naos 5000 looks pretty good, but this keyboard was an average keyboard at best.

Comparing a Filco, and even the Xarmor (in some ways) was laughable compared to the Mionix. I am sorry if you are disappointed in my review. Maybe Mionix should send a few keyboards out for free to some keyboards experts on here. I am sure they wouldn't find the board overly impressive.

Nope, I didn't take it personal, I just found your post amusing at the time. But I definitely understand some of the issues you have with the board (the one you received in particular) and how that influenced you in your decision to return it. Sorry if my last post was worded a bit too strong.

Good luck in finding a keyboard that better fits your preferences.

Trueepower · « **Reply #401 on:** Thu, 14 July 2011, 22:34:24 »

Quote from: poros1ty;380699

Nope, I didn't take it personal, I just found your post amusing at the time. But I definitely understand some of the issues you have with the board (the one you received in particular) and how that influenced you in your decision to return it. Sorry if my last post was worded a bit too strong.

Good luck in finding a keyboard that better fits your preferences.

Thanks for the apology, I appreciate that. Yeah, I still think without the "ping" that this board still has to be a better value then the Meka G1 (even if the back lighting isn't exactly what people want, it's still back lighting). I am not familiar with the Meka G1, it appears Noodles is... he could probably therefore give a more accurate review of the board.

noodles256 · « **Reply #402 on:** Thu, 14 July 2011, 23:09:54 »

the meka g1 is a better value in my opinion. The only difference is backlighting and it sucks so get a meka g1.

simple

Mionix · « **Reply #403 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 17:43:58 »

These last few pages have been a mine field for us

you all seem to like it / hate it or light is great does not bleed/light sucks not bright enough or ......... but this is all great for us to build better products and find issues with our current products so thank you.

The pinging sound is a bit strange never heard that before and i've been using a Zibal for months, did you contact our Mionix support?

Line up your questions in this thread and i will be around for the next couple days to answer them cheers /Richard

noodles256 · « **Reply #404 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 18:31:42 »

I doubt Mionix support could help more than the minds here on Geekhack

RiGS · « **Reply #405 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 19:14:07 »

One is not supposed to bottom out a mechanical keyboard.

The Solutor · « **Reply #406 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 19:19:46 »

One is supposed to type in the way he like better.

Not too different than sex.

RiGS · « **Reply #407 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 19:22:43 »

Quote from: The Solutor;381709

One is supposed to type in the way he like better.

...and then cry about the ping.

The Solutor · « **Reply #408 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 19:24:43 »

Quote from: RiGS;381712

...and then cry about the ping.

Just buy decent keyboards, and no pinging or crying are involved

Trueepower · « **Reply #409 on:** Sat, 16 July 2011, 21:04:22 »

Quote from: ripster;381704

I'm not real familiar with the ping issue either. Seems like normal mechanical keyboard noise.

Well, that's what a guy told me at "The Keyboard Company (UK)". He said that pinging was the result of a good well-made board (in so many words).

I can tell you this (Ripster, Mionix and whoever) that if you have a genuine "ping" ... you will NOT keep the keyboard. Now Ripster, you in particular claim to be the 1# keyboard expert in the world. I will tell that if you did indeed have a ping, that you wouldn't keep the board. People that haven't used a mechanical are people who are most likely to put up with it. People who have used mechanical boards, and have some that don't ping... aren't going to tolerate what I would call a vibration ring. Which is what I think is a better name for the ping. Vibration ring.

In defense of Mionix, I wouldn't think that every board you make includes this ring. Especially since it seems that your boards are the same as the Meka G1's. Which are regarded as being pretty good.

I wouldn't recommend the Mionix based on the overall quality of the board (and thus probably wouldn't be a fan of the Thermaltake Meka G1 either). If someone wants yellow back lighting, and wants to give one a try then by all means. I just agree with Noodles, wasn't worth the price. I had an Xarmor which I thought was better for the price and overall quality for 130, as opposed to 150 and lower quality.

noodles256 · « **Reply #410 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 00:47:01 »

Quote from: ripster;381704

I feel your ping.

i lawled. and tp is right

the zibal 60 aint worth the value. Down with Mionix!

noodles256 · « **Reply #411 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 02:05:44 »

I wonder what the hidden issue with Filco's are then. We all thought it was the ping lawl

Trueepower · « **Reply #412 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 03:12:43 »

Quote from: ripster;381841

I'm just glad it's not a Filco ping problem. That would have been bad.

Well, RedPill solved that problem! That might have been the smartest/dumbest keyboard mod ever. I am not going to be doing that with any board I get. Mionix can be thankful I didn't try that! haha..... Would that void my warranty? (lol)

Mionix · « **Reply #413 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 04:22:24 »

Quote from: noodles256;381694

I doubt Mionix support could help more than the minds here on Geekhack

But if you don't tell us via support we don't find out about the issue until we collect our RMA from our distributor a couple of times a year. But i agree the minds of Geekhack may know better to help you but please register your problems with support too, cheers

Mionix · « **Reply #414 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 04:24:55 »

I'm checking out the claims of yellow colour lights and will post my findings shortly /richard

Mionix · « **Reply #415 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 04:27:48 »

Quote from: Trueepower;381882

Well, RedPill solved that problem! That might have been the smartest/dumbest keyboard mod ever. I am not going to be doing that with any board I get. Mionix can be thankful I didn't try that! haha..... Would that void my warranty? (lol)

What Mod is that then?

sordna · « **Reply #416 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 04:33:12 »

Quote from: Mionix;381896

What Mod is that then?

Expanding foam between the plate and PCB:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18886-Ringing-Filco-Majestouch-2-Plus-Expanding-Polyurethane-Foam

Trueepower · « **Reply #417 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 05:27:24 »

Quote from: Mionix;381896

What Mod is that then?

Sorry about that Mionix (no pun intended by that post).

Supposedly, a "ping" or ring vibration is caused by the metal plate and PCB having a gap (which sounds like the truth). RedPill is known for using foam to solve that problem. A rather messy idea, that actually worked for him.

I am not sure if my yellow back lighting was meant to be yellow. Although, I will say in WASD lighting mode it appeared yellow with a tad bit of green. I think with all the bulbs together it appeared yellow. The yellow engulfs the green. Which might not be a bad thing for people who like yellow. I think though a lot of people will be surprised that the back lighting looks a lot different than the pictures.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #418 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 12:15:35 »

Quote from: ripster;382032

Just monitor it. AFAIK only Geekhack keeps talking about ping/ring. Hasn't come up at OCN (I know you post there), HardForum, Deskthority.net, any of the Asian Keyboard Forums, or Anandtech.

I'm willing to bet that Filcos are more popular at GH than at any of those other forums.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #419 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 12:24:43 »

OCN is like the Ducky kingdom.

^ Typical OCN moderator.

sordna · « **Reply #420 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 12:42:17 »

Quote from: Trueepower;381909

Supposedly, a "ping" or ring vibration is caused by the metal plate and PCB having a gap (which sounds like the truth).

It's not verified that the gap or even the plate causes the ping. I believe the source of the ping is the springs. If all switches were to be compressed (or removed for that matter) it could verify that there is no ping anymore. Unfortunately nobody has tested this. The foam may well have worked because it dampens the entire structure, switches included. If you hold a loose brown or red switch in your hand, you can easily make the spring ping, by releasing the stem rapidly.

noodles256 · « **Reply #421 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 12:47:21 »

i am zibla marketing rep, i think it is bad keyboard //

sordna · « **Reply #422 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 12:48:38 »

Quote from: ripster;382045

I ALREADY confirmed this.

Just put some dental floss in a pinging Cherry MX if you don't believe me.

Great! Can you put this mod in a wiki?

Trueepower · « **Reply #423 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 13:55:06 »

It's not verified that the gap or even the plate causes the ping. I believe the source of the ping is the springs. If all switches were to be compressed (or removed for that matter) it could verify that there is no ping anymore. Unfortunately nobody has tested this. The foam may well have worked because it dampens the entire structure, switches included. If you hold a loose brown or red switch in your hand, you can easily make the spring ping, by releasing the stem rapidly. - Sordna

I don't think it was the spring. The ring vibration that I got from the Mionix had a ring that was too big to be caused by the spring. I don't know how a spring could possibly vibrate for a short time after either. It's just too big of a noise to be caused by the spring. Also, that would mean that EVERYTHING spring on the board had something wrong with it. Do people still think that is possible? I don't think that is the problem. This is not a Cherry switch problem, it's a manufacturer's problem of the board itself.

So the idea that this problem is caused by the spring is wrong. Would have to be every spring on the board.

drsauced · « **Reply #424 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 13:59:55 »

Quote from: sordna;382041

It's not verified that the gap or even the plate causes the ping. I believe the source of the ping is the springs. If all switches were to be compressed (or removed for that matter) it could verify that there is no ping anymore. Unfortunately nobody has tested this. The foam may well have worked because it dampens the entire structure, switches included. If you hold a loose brown or red switch in your hand, you can easily make the spring ping, by releasing the stem rapidly.

Ripster posted a video of tuning forks which got me thinking. The ring/ping is sympathetic ringing in adjacent springs, transferred by a good mechanical coupling of plate and switches. I have tested this with a Leo blue board, Deck, and a Filco Ninja. Compressing switches around a 'pinging' key gets rid of the ping/zing. Kaboom.

Trueepower · « **Reply #425 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 14:13:02 »

Quote from: ripster;382045

I ALREADY confirmed this.

Just put some dental floss in a pinging Cherry MX if you don't believe me.

Anyway if I WERE A ZIBAL MARKETING REP I'd avoid this whole place like the plague for a while until this calms down. You're gonna get more sales out of OCN.

Dental floss over every spring isn't going to do anything. Ripster, for someone who claims to be the #1 keyboard expert... you have some silly ideas. I think most of your posts on here are just to try to put people down.

Dental floss might work for some other type of noise. The so called 1# keyboard expert is wrong on this one.

Trueepower · « **Reply #426 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 14:20:15 »

Quote from: drsauced;382089

Ripster posted a video of tuning forks which got me thinking. The ring/ping is sympathetic ringing in adjacent springs, transferred by a good mechanical coupling of plate and switches. I have tested this with a Leo blue board, Deck, and a Filco Ninja. Compressing switches around a 'pinging' key gets rid of the ping/zing. Kaboom.

If this actually works for people, and they want to apply dental floss to every switch .... then by all means. But, the sound itself is amplified by the plate so matter how much dental floss you put into your springs the sound will always be there.

Amplification (of keycap) + force = vibration

Simple. That's how it works. There is nothing wrong with Cherry switches. Its the construction of the board.

Mionix · « **Reply #427 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 14:35:53 »

Quote from: ripster;382045

Anyway if I WERE A ZIBAL MARKETING REP I'd avoid this whole place like the plague for a while until this calms down. You're gonna get more sales out of OCN.

Your probably right but i'm not hear to sell, i'm hear to learn, share and build better products, oh and btw im not afraid to take the Geekhack bull by the horns and wrestle it. Other companies might be different but We Do Not Hide! /richard

Trueepower · « **Reply #428 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 14:50:59 »

Quote from: ripster;382107

I was wrong in 2010 once.

Been a while since.

Try the dental floss mod if you don't believe me. Your theories suck.

I don't have any theories. Just know enough about logic that every spring on a board is not going to be messed up. I suppose that's possible, but I'll take my theory over yours. Logic is on my side. Which is not really the case usually when you start putting people down on here, and pretending to listen to them.

Trueepower · « **Reply #429 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 14:59:32 »

Quote from: Mionix;382113

Your probably right but i'm not hear to sell, i'm hear to learn, share and build better products, oh and btw im not afraid to take the Geekhack bull by the horns and wrestle it. Other companies might be different but We Do Not Hide! /richard

If someone has a ring of vibration they can just take the board back. It's not really worth discussing unless a lot of people come on here, and say they experience the same problem with your product. Just don't advise anyone to do their own modding, and tell them to send it back.

Ripster is right about one thing, the discussion should be else where on these forums.

Mionix, our keyboard experts on here are right at least half the time!

Now, if anyone wants to talk about the actual Mionix board. Feel free, I won't post anymore about the infamous "ping" or ring vibration.

noodles256 · « **Reply #430 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 15:47:34 »

Quote from: Trueepower;382132

If someone has a ring of vibration they can just take the board back. It's not really worth discussing unless a lot of people come on here, and say they experience the same problem with your product. Just don't advise anyone to do their own modding, and tell them to send it back.

Ripster is right about one thing, the discussion should be else where on these forums.

Mionix, our keyboard experts on here are right at least half the time!

Now, if anyone wants to talk about the actual Mionix board. Feel free, I won't post anymore about the infamous "ping" or ring vibration.

Quote from: noodles256

ok, i feel the mionix zibal 60 was the biggest rip off I even wasted my time with. for $150, I rather get 2 plu-ml87, break one and digest the other and the boards will still be better than the mionix one

what a douche

sordna · « **Reply #431 on:** Sun, 17 July 2011, 21:01:05 »

Quote from: Trueepower;382128

I don't have any theories. Just know enough about logic that every spring on a board is not going to be messed up. I suppose that's possible, but I'll take my theory over yours. Logic is on my side.

If you open up a cherry switch, you'll see there's no provision inside it to dampen noise. Most brown and red switches ping, naturally. It doesn't mean they are messed up. I think the problem is that vibrations are transferred to nearby switches, like a reverb unit, which is why the noise ends up being big and "echoy" tuning-fork like. I have a keyboard WITHOUT a plate, and it pings pretty loud for at least a second.

Mionix · « **Reply #432 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 04:15:31 »

Quote from: sordna;382290

If you open up a cherry switch, you'll see there's no provision inside it to dampen noise. Most brown and red switches ping, naturally. It doesn't mean they are messed up. I think the problem is that vibrations are transferred to nearby switches, like a reverb unit, which is why the noise ends up being big and "echoy" tuning-fork like. I have a keyboard WITHOUT a plate, and it pings pretty loud for at least a second.

Ive had a Zibal 60 pulled apart like a scene out of a CSI episode and we can conclude that it seems to be the switch itself which is made by Cherry and not anything on the keyboard. We have reds, blues and browns too and they ping the same way. Sorry if this does not help but at least i can confirm its nothing with the Zibal build. /richard

The Solutor · « **Reply #433 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 04:23:59 »

Quote from: Mionix;382471

Ive had a Zibal 60 pulled apart like a scene out of a CSI episode and we can conclude that it seems to be the switch itself which is made by Cherry and not anything on the keyboard. We have reds, blues and browns too and they ping the same way. Sorry if this does not help but at least i can confirm its nothing with the Zibal build. /richard

Both aspects counts.

Some switches are pinging, I had two in my xarmor, and it's clearly a Cherry assembly issue.

But

If the switches and the leds are pushed tightly during the soldering process the ping become almost inaudible, because there is some clearance between the pcb and the switches soldered with the industrial process.

I already published here the audio samples of a pinging switch (the same switch) , before and after the resoldering process.

before

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 21238[/ATTACH]

after

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 21237[/ATTACH]

Later I've also found a brand new, unmounted pinging switch.

I opened it to understand what's going on.

Well I just reassembled it, w/o any other additional action, and the ping was completely gone.

I presume that some switch's cursors, during the assembly process, are assembled with a rotational movement that charge the coiled spring with a torsional force.

Once disassembled that force is discharged and the switch start with the expected behavior.

I hope this helps.

Mionix · « **Reply #434 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 04:54:05 »

Quote from: The Solutor;382475

Both aspects counts.

Some switches are pinging, I had two in my xarmor, and it's clearly a Cherry assembly issue.

But

If the switches and the leds are pushed tightly during the soldering process the ping become almost inaudible, because there is some clearance between the pcb and the switches soldered with the industrial process.

I already published here the audio samples of a pinging switch (the same switch) , before and after the resoldering process.

before

(Attachment Link) 21238[/ATTACH]

after

(Attachment Link) 21237[/ATTACH]

Later I've also found a brand new, unmounted pinging switch.

I opened it to understand what's going on.

Well I just reassembled it, w/o any other additional action, and the ping was completely gone.

I presume that some switch's cursors, during the assembly process, are assembled with a rotational movement that charge the coiled spring with a torsional force.

Once disassembled that force is discharged and the switch start with the expected behavior.

I hope this helps.

Thank you! This is what i love about Geekhack... I will pass this info on to our Product Manager and lets hope we can find out more. /richard

The Solutor · « **Reply #435 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 05:00:29 »

Quote from: Mionix;382479

Thank you! This is what i love about Geekhack... I will pass this info on to our Product Manager and lets hope we can find out more. /richard

You're welcome. :wave:

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #436 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 18:12:12 »

Quote from: The Solutor;382475

Both aspects counts. (...)

Good post.

None of my Cherry board pings... But is it possible that the metal plate can amplify the switch ping if the plate is allowed to vibrate and/or propagate the sound? (not enough fixations)? Something similar to a diapason.
(eg Hit a metal plate in the air and it will ping... Put it flat on the sand and hit it again, no ping at all)

The Solutor · « **Reply #437 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 19:07:21 »

Quote from: ripster;382918

I think you missed a few thousand posts on this subject at Geekhack.

+1

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #438 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 20:44:00 »

Quote from: ripster;382918

I think you missed a few thousand posts on this subject at Geekhack. Meanwhile all the other keyboard forums remain thankfully ping free zones.

Right, pinging is not a concern and I never paid attention to it. Guilty as charged.

Enlighten me... What is the consensus on GH about pinging (if there's one, that would be a first)?

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #439 on:** Mon, 18 July 2011, 21:28:06 »

Quote from: ripster;382992

Look at the two Ping Polls here and make your own conclusion.

I did... 2%-5% noticed a pinging in their boards. Not a big deal.

Even Solutor's XArmor is pinging. (Someting I cannot say about mine)
Maybe the Zilion dismantling has something to do with it...:becky:

The Solutor · « **Reply #440 on:** Tue, 19 July 2011, 02:52:27 »

Quote

Maybe the Zilion dismantling has something to do with it...

wikipedia has the perfect definition for your behavior:

Envy is a negative emotion felt due to self-comparison of possessions. In simpler terms, envy is the wish to get what one does not have.

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #441 on:** Tue, 19 July 2011, 17:47:04 »

Quote from: The Solutor;383208

wikipedia has the perfect definition for your behavior:

Envy is a negative emotion felt due to self-comparison of possessions. In simpler terms, envy is the wish to get what one does not have.

Once again your implacable logic hit me right in the face.
>I subconsciously want pinging boards.<

Good catch mr Freud.

The Solutor · « **Reply #442 on:** Tue, 19 July 2011, 18:14:28 »

Quote

>I subconsciously want pinging boards.<

You subconsciously want to have the ability to do what me and other dozens of GH users are able to do.

Given that the skill and the knowledge aren't sold in megastores you manage to find an alternate way to satisfy yourself, collecting keyboards and trolling other users.

Quote

Good catch mr Freud.

Oh, be sure that 15 years of forums are more than enough to become more than amateurs psychoanalyst and/or sociologist

daerid · « **Reply #443 on:** Tue, 19 July 2011, 18:16:37 »

Quote from: The Solutor;383593

Oh, be sure that 15 years of forums are more than enough to become more than amateurs psychoanalyst and/or sociologist

:lol:

r4pture · « **Reply #444 on:** Sat, 23 July 2011, 21:26:03 »

Guys, lets please not turn this into a flaming ****swinging thread.

alaricljs · « **Reply #445 on:** Sat, 23 July 2011, 21:56:57 »

This is 4 days old, you're the one that dug it back up...

arc2 · « **Reply #446 on:** Sun, 24 July 2011, 05:40:50 »

Just a week or so until my Zibal 60 arrives ...

arc2 · « **Reply #447 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 12:09:24 »

Well, the Zibal in ISO UK is delayed until mid september so a longer wait than I thought.

The Solutor · « **Reply #448 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 12:49:58 »

Quote from: arc2;392930

Well, the Zibal in ISO UK is delayed until mid september so a longer wait than I thought.

Well the £ sign is really hard to made :happy:

EllipticSquare · « **Reply #449 on:** Thu, 04 August 2011, 20:12:09 »

This board actually caught my interest. Too bad it's +220 USD, 6-key rollover and no windows button.

the windows issue should be programable through AHK if it's not on hardware level

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Author Topic: Mionix Zibal 60 / Z60 gaming keyboard with backlit keys (Read 143809 times)