Author Topic: All my IBM Model Ms won't work until I restart. (Read 33461 times)

Tennobanzai · « **on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 15:14:40 »

For some reason I have to restart my PC to be able to use my keyboard. It boots up perfectly fine except the fact I cant type on it from a cold start. I tried replugging in the keyboards and it doesnt help. This is a problem with all 3 of my IBM keyboards. I tried with my steelseries 7G and its fine. I'm solely using my PS/2. Does anyone know whats the problem?

Mr. Perfect · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 15:18:40 »

You're not hot-swapping the keyboards, right? The PS/2 bus doesn't like hot swapping, and will usually lock up until the PC is rebooted if you try.

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #2 on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 15:23:31 »

Quote from: Mr. Perfect;332914

You're not hot-swapping the keyboards, right? The PS/2 bus doesn't like hot swapping, and will usually lock up until the PC is rebooted if you try.

Nope. I don't change anything physically at all. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with my PC since I don't get these symptoms with my other PC. Both PCs are running windows 7 and using the PS/2 port. I'm not sure what else to be looking at.

MrSneis · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 15:50:54 »

With computer off plug in keyboard. Turn computer on and it should work... is it after this you are having problems?

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 15:58:01 »

Quote from: MrSneis;332936

With computer off plug in keyboard. Turn computer on and it should work... is it after this you are having problems?

Yep this is what i'm doing. I tried replugging my keyboard between shutdowns like you mentioned but it doesn't help. I will have to restart to get my keyboard functioning.

Btw, i've recently updated my BIOS and cleared CMOS. Both did not help out.

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #5 on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 16:06:22 »

Quote from: ripster;332942

Probably not getting enough juice from the PS/2 connector.

Get a Blue Cube.

See the PS/2 Versus USB Wiki for details.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+versus+PS+2

I find it a little weird since my steelseries 7g works fine, but maybe the IBM Model Ms need a little more power.

Interesting. It might be because my PC is using a dual purpose PS/2 port (Asus P67) while my other PC that is working fine has 2 PS/2 ports specially for a keyboard and mouse.

Another thing I overlooked is that i've been using the same SDL cable. Maybe it's just faulty or not getting enough power? I'll try to find a solution when I get home in a few hours.

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #6 on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 16:22:47 »

Quote from: ripster;332952

Hah, I have a Asus P8P67 Deluxe.

It works with my DealExtreme Scissor Switch on PS/2 but never bothered to plug in an IBM.

Probably ASUS never did either. That's why these "My PS/2 connection doesn't work" posts come up just about every month on Geekhack/OCN/KBDthority/HardForum. See the wiki for example links. Usually solved by a Blue Cube or Belkin.

Still the OCN Mechanical Keyboard Guide recommends PS/2 uber alles. What a Nazi editor!

Ah I see. I'll probably end up getting the blue cube anyways now. I have the P8P67 WS Revolution so we probably both have the same PS/2 port. Thanks for the help, i'm guess the blue cube will work but I kinda want to stay with PS/2 for reasons mentioned on OCN :Cry:

I found this quote on clickykeyboards that basically confirms the power issue.

Quote

Online reports indicate that vintage IBM ps/2 keyboards pull up to 100x more current compared to modern keyboards (112 mA vs 1.2 mA)

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #7 on:** Mon, 18 April 2011, 16:37:15 »

Quote from: ripster;332963

Don't blame me if the $10 dongle doesn't work to fix this. Sometimes it DOES end up being the keyboard but I have faith in the good old Model M.

Yeah considering it's 3 Models Ms my luck would be pretty bad if it's was defective keyboards.

MrSneis · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 19 April 2011, 17:59:39 »

I received my model m today and I thought you should know the same thing happened to me! On first boot the board had num lock light on but nothing registered. After a reboot it fiirerd right up!

I don't have a powered ps2 to usb adapter yet

ch_123 · « **Reply #9 on:** Tue, 19 April 2011, 18:07:48 »

Stuff like this is almost always motherboard related. Especially when three different keyboards do it.

MrSneis · « **Reply #10 on:** Tue, 19 April 2011, 18:16:03 »

The motherboard is the p8p67 deluxe. I think I found a grerater problem though; the keys seem to be double rergistering, even at the miiniimum rerpeat rate

See my typos?

MrSneis · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 19 April 2011, 18:25:59 »

Think it's a possibility of being underpowered causing the keys to double register?

ch_123 · « **Reply #12 on:** Tue, 19 April 2011, 18:45:43 »

Could well be lack of power causing the controller to behave incorrectly.

MrSneis · « **Reply #13 on:** Tue, 19 April 2011, 18:47:08 »

I'll run out to Fry's then, fingers crossed!!

MrSneis · « **Reply #14 on:** Tue, 19 April 2011, 20:10:31 »

Wellp, that's bull****. $15 later and I still have the same problem. I guess we should have buyer beware "seller refurbished" on ebay probably means it's garbage. Of course the seller can't/won't do anything.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?5132-Model-M-stuck-repeating-key

Surly73 · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 21 April 2011, 06:53:44 »

Hmm, hope there isn't a P8P67 problem with model Ms. I've identified the P8P67Pro as the finalist for my upcoming build.

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 21 April 2011, 11:49:33 »

My blue cube should arrive in the next few days and i'll test it on my P8P67 WS Revolution, P8H67-i Deluxe and P67 Sabertooth. I'm guessing if all my Asus 1155 have the same PS/2 specs, chances it's the same with the rest of the line up

Quote from: ripster;333702

What motherboard?

So you have to boot twice to use your Model M? I'm more used to seeing it not work at all. Or just work.

Someone else on hardforum mentioned the same problem too

audioave10 · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 21 April 2011, 12:01:41 »

My new Gigabyte mobos power the Model M fine with the ONE PS/2 they provide. These are AMD systems. I think we are seeing the power-reduction future at work here. I think as Ripster has said before, eventually, the PS/2 goes the way of the Dodo.

Vittra · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 21 April 2011, 13:13:58 »

This problem sounds Asus specific. Gigabyte tends to support legacy tech longer, so I wouldn't be surprised if it had no issue running across their lineup for P67. I don't have a Model M to test this theory though.

Funny thing about my Sabertooth P67 - with my Noppoo I couldn't use the keyboard in the Windows Boot menu (Selecting normal boot, safe mode, etc) with any USB port whereas on my P67A-UD7-B3 I had no problems.

My assumption was that it was activating and locking numlock thereby swapping certiain key functionality until I got into the OS.

Vittra · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 21 April 2011, 13:29:23 »

A rumour without evidence is the best kind. In fact, it's the very definition!

I hear Asus' boards kill their owners and replace them with androids as well btw.

audioave10 · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 21 April 2011, 22:40:40 »

Thanks for the test. I don't think its Asus vs. Gigabyte here. We need to wait for AMD's Bulldozer chips and new motherboards first. Once all CPU's get down to 32nm in core size, I wouldn't be suprised if legacy support for PS/2 goes away for good.

theferenc · « **Reply #21 on:** Thu, 21 April 2011, 23:41:52 »

USB would be fine if the adapters didn't have translation tables built in, and actually passed along exactly what they got, just converted to a USB code. It completely sucks using a 1397000 Model M via a USB adapter, as all of the additional keys just flat don't work. At least, not when I tried with my Belkin adapters.

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat, 23 April 2011, 21:58:36 »

Just got my blue cube and all 3 of my Model M (SSK, 1995 Lexmark, 1991 IBM Model M)works with all 3 of my 1155 Asus boards.

Magna224 · « **Reply #23 on:** Sat, 23 April 2011, 23:58:40 »

Blue cube didn't work for my focus. :,(
I saw a thread where another guy had a focus that didn't work with a blue cube as well but some cheap one did. So I may have to get some to try out.

dracaXL · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 24 April 2011, 09:50:56 »

So is the consensus that it is in fact an issue with Asus SB boards?

Tennobanzai · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 25 April 2011, 11:09:07 »

That sucks. I guess the price doesn't matter when it comes to PS/2 quality. My cheapo MSI board that I got in a Athlon bundle works fine..

Mr. Perfect · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon, 25 April 2011, 12:12:21 »

Quote from: theferenc;335312

USB would be fine if the adapters didn't have translation tables built in, and actually passed along exactly what they got, just converted to a USB code. It completely sucks using a 1397000 Model M via a USB adapter, as all of the additional keys just flat don't work. At least, not when I tried with my Belkin adapters.

You may be interested in this DIY converter going in the mod section. It can be setup to use the extra keys on terminal boards and the like.

FrittenFett · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon, 25 April 2011, 13:42:12 »

My experience with PS/2 originates from my Model M '88 and my GBT 770TA-UD3 - no problems until the SDL cable decided to brake just a little before the SDL-connector; so no more click. Only the sound of BlackMX.

Thinkpad Fan · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 27 April 2011, 07:13:47 »

Seems to me it is not the PS/2's fault modern motherboard designers ignore the correct specs. When plugged into my Lenovo Thinkpad Docking Bay's PS/2 port, IBM M keyboards work exactly as designed - no adapters needed.

Perhaps IBM/Lenovo remembered to allow sufficent power at the port for all keyboards - new and old - to work. That makes the motherboards you guys want to use the actual problem. What other detail did the designers miss? An industry standard port should work, period.

And when they quit shipping junk keyboards with new computers, then I'll feel better about USB keyboards. Cheaper ain't better. Thinkpad Fan

Surly73 · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 27 April 2011, 08:49:57 »

Yeah, this annoys me. Right now I've identified the P8P67 Pro as my SB motherboard when I get around to doing a build. I guess I won't be using my model M, or who knows how many other PS2 mobos won't work.

Sure, I can "buy a thing to do that", but that's already true of a laundry list of things most motherboards don't seem to do correctly. Soon you're doubling the cost (and power profile) of your motherboard buying add-ons to do things that the onboard components should do properly in the first place.

keyb_gr · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 27 April 2011, 13:43:47 »

If an M doesn't work, I would have written off the even more power-hungry F right away. But the M4...

Mind bugging the Asus folks? There is a slim but greater-than-zero chance of it not being a hardware issue.

woody · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 29 April 2011, 17:33:12 »

Quote from: ripster;339269

Obviously not using the trackpoint - see my pic above.

PS/2 Y splitter?

woody · « **Reply #32 on:** Sat, 30 April 2011, 04:35:05 »

ASUS mess things up occasionally.

The Solutor · « **Reply #33 on:** Sat, 30 April 2011, 09:17:52 »

ASUS mess things almost always.

ASrock (which ironically is an ASUS subcompany) rarely makes mistakes.

BTW ripster do you ever noticed the nice BIOS menu PS2 port function = AUTO / Mouse / Keyboard ?

Maybe Auto V.S. keyboard makes the difference.

The Solutor · « **Reply #34 on:** Sat, 30 April 2011, 10:10:39 »

Quote from: ripster;339507

Nope. UEFI settings don't make a difference.

Ahhh it's an UEFI board !!!

This could explain a lot.

I've not much experience here, all the UEFI PCs I tried were notebook, or legacyless MB, so no PS/2 ports to experiment with.

The Solutor · « **Reply #35 on:** Sat, 30 April 2011, 10:27:07 »

Quote

It doesn't explain anything.

UEFI is just too young, that's all

Likely on the Bios version 1840258832 you will get your port working correctly.

For now I'm glad to use an Asrock 870 Extreme3 (which is BIOS based) instead of the Asrock 870 Extreme3 R2 (which is UEFI based).

Quote

You still think Obama was born in Indonesia?

At lest i don't think that Bell invented the phone :becky:

The Solutor · « **Reply #36 on:** Sat, 30 April 2011, 11:49:34 »

This is an unexact science, the variables are zillions.

Just for example, some MB have the jumper to choose if the back USB ports should be always powered or just when the PC is on.

Frequently that jumper swaps also the PS/2 5V line.

So could be interesting to know if your PS2 connector is always powered or not, if changes its beaviour moving the USB jumper, and finally if this helps with the OP problem

The Solutor · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun, 01 May 2011, 11:45:29 »

Quote from: ripster;339830

Jumpers? I don't have no STEEENKING Jumpers. I'm American so I buy modern motherboards.

And modern cars... :tongue:

Seriously intel still sells mainboards ?

And there's someone that buy them? :shocked:

Quote

On a Intel Badaxe2 Motherboard (circa 2007)
Cold Boot
Works in the bios
Doesn't work in Windows 7 32bit
Reboot
Works in both bios and Windows
Immediate Shutdown and Reboot (hey, maybe it's a charging up the caps issue!)
Works in bios, not Windows
Stupid Intel

On my nifty 2011 Rev 3 ASUS P8P67 Deluxe (aka the fixed Intel Sandy Bridge)
Cold Boot
Works in the bios
Doesn't work in Windows 7 64bit
Reboot
Works in both bios and Windows
Immediate Shutdown and Reboot
Works in bios, not Windows
Stupid Asus

If the keyboard works in bios but not in windows (this was not clear in the previous messages) likely is just a windows problem.

Try what happen with a live linux distro, if it works always, likely an in place upgrade of windows with the keyboard connected to the ps/2 port during the installation process will fix the problem.

The Solutor · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun, 01 May 2011, 12:10:26 »

Quote

In other news my ASSrocks Quad 6700 motherboard PS/2 port works fine with the Bernie Madoff Mini.

You got a good mainboard, you got less troubles. As always happen.

Quote

It has a normal BIOS, not a UEFI. UEFI is better.

Likely UEFI *will* be better in the next two years, as always happened to any new IT technology.

The Solutor · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun, 01 May 2011, 13:26:45 »

You forgot the Caps Locke engaged

The Solutor · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun, 01 May 2011, 13:35:28 »

The caffeine free coffee is easy to find in California ? :pop2:

The Solutor · « **Reply #41 on:** Mon, 02 May 2011, 10:06:02 »

Really how old are you ripster ?

You look like 6 year child that start crying when discover that someone else has managed to build an higher tower with its lego.

iMav · « **Reply #42 on:** Mon, 02 May 2011, 11:17:35 »

Quote from: The Solutor;339881

Seriously intel still sells mainboards ?

And there's someone that buy them? :shocked:

Intel jokes will NOT BE TOLERATED!!!!

The Solutor · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon, 02 May 2011, 11:35:17 »

Quote from: iMav;340377

Intel jokes will NOT BE TOLERATED!!!!

Well...

Was a 50% joke 50% technical consideration, really the MB division is not the best Intel's one. (I really hope you aren't the division manager

)

Surly73 · « **Reply #44 on:** Mon, 02 May 2011, 12:34:27 »

This year, maybe as a present for my birthday, I'd like just one geekhack thread to stay on topic... Generally "stay on topic" Nazis annoy me, but I think we need a couple around here.

Surly73 · « **Reply #45 on:** Wed, 04 May 2011, 07:42:14 »

I saw on [H] yesterday that when someone started overclocking their Model M started working. Not sure if they participate here too.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037179758&postcount=2344

woody · « **Reply #46 on:** Wed, 04 May 2011, 10:48:48 »

As to why PS/2 keyboard won't work with a certain motherboard, there could be two reasons:
1) insufficient power
2) protocol violations - bad timings, signal integrity problems, etc.

Once a dedicated MCU, the motherboard PS/2 controller is nowadays buried in the Southbridge (if present at all) as a macrocell. So it varies wildly in implementation, and with the small firmware it includes, that's another possible source of problems.

Ripster, why don't you try further correlating the PS/2 problem with the Southbridge chip used? Like, two different motherboards using the same Southbridge chip (PS/2 controller)? Perhaps GHers could lend a hand.

woody · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 04 May 2011, 10:57:25 »

Not just Intel, but the same particular chip number, like 82801GB or whatever.

woody · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 04 May 2011, 11:04:26 »

Do a lazy experiment - get a PS/2 Y splitter. Measure the 5V rail, then attach keyboard and measure again.

woody · « **Reply #49 on:** Wed, 04 May 2011, 11:11:54 »

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812105710&cm_re=ps%2f2_cable-_-12-105-710-_-Product
Then mutilate the right wire. Or the left.

News:

Author Topic: All my IBM Model Ms won't work until I restart. (Read 33461 times)

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